Playoff Live Thread: Knicks @ Cavs, Game 4 ECF 2026-05-25 Off By Chris Francis Good evening CtB! The Cavs “fight” for their season tonight and some semblance of professional pride. Schröder is out, Mike Snyder seems to believe it’s Jaylon Tyson’s night… let’s see what the kid’s got, Go Cavs! Playoff Live Thread: Knicks @ Cavs, ECF Game 3 Podcast 327: Accountability’s for Suckers
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(750x407:752x409)/dum-dums-lollipops-050725-6ca2399ec2ec4db1afbe32290239652f.jpg "Podcast 327: Accountability’s for Suckers")
HEY BUCKAROO AS USUAL LOGIC/ WISDOM IN YOUR POST ——- BY NO MEANS IS THIS GROUP OF PLAYERS A TERRIBLE TEAM—- REALLY THINK 14 GAMES LEFT THE “ TANK EMPTY “ AND THE 1st GAME COLLAPSE “ SUCKED THE LIFE OUT OF THEM——-CAN A FULL TRAINING CAMP HELP HARDEN ( WE SAID THE SAME ABOUT DRE LAST YEAR ) —— TEAM s IN OUR OWN CONFERENCE ARE GOING TO BE BETTER / WE MIGHT NOT GET PAST THE 2nd ROUND—-OKC / SPURS ARE GOING TO FIGHT FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP 3-5 YEARS——REALIZE REBUILDING IS A “ DEFEATIST WORD “ AND NO… Read more »
Sispyhean metaphors aside closer to the top is better than closer to the bottom
absolutely steal.. full agreement.. franchise in decent shape.. dumpster-fire-free..always good.. rock on NOMAD bro..
hmmm.. what’s the definition of insanity ??.. it’s been a nice, rather predictable ride.. one of you smart blog bros stated that spurs and thunder pretty much own the league for the next 3-5 years.. can’t argue with that.. so keep the status quo, and have another redux (although cavs likely don’t get as far next year).. or tip your hat, say thx for the show (and the effort, such as it was).. and get on the sisyphus wagon and start pushing the rock up the hill with some “young-ins”.. i am in the latter camp. but wouldn’t really mind… Read more »
the Lakers got LeBron for free, and would love to get a couple rotation players for him. from LeBron’s viewpoint, the only way he can get top dollar is for the Lakers to trade him for matching salaries. but that would severly cripple the team he is traded to, and likely keep them far away from a title run. So his choices are to either play somewhere for the minimum (preferably Cleveland) and chase another title, or get top dollar and maybe make it through the play-ins.
Kenny back is the right call. Coaches can improve, too.
Gonna be tough to do much in FA. Strus & Schröder are under contract. JA came up big twice in G7s. Mobley is out best 2 way player. And even if you let Harden walk, we cannot sign a max guy to replace him.
A good trade? Maybe. Draft well. Hope Tyson grows and everybody improves individually and as a collective.
I am a hard no on paying LeBron a lot or tearing up the team to make it happen.
hard same
Yeah. The scenario of trying to get both him and Giannis together sounds like a nightmare that only the Nets would try and then be set back for the next decade
Lot of misinformation right now, I wouldn’t believe a thing you hear. Things will shake out by draft/free agency.
😂
I guess we’re not gonna offer LeBron a player/coach position then.
They’re running it back, only question appears to be whether they actually keep Mobley or not for Giannis or LeBron
I wouldn’t call trading Mobley “running it back”, I would call it a last gasp move
Yeah, trading for Giannis is the “all-in” last gasp move. Just running it back? Ignores reality IMO
the Cavs running it back is a long shot in any circumstances. the only avalible move is a new coach and hope to get lucky. we have seen what this crew can do with Kenny — hope to keep up with the Pistons and Pacers but have no chance against the Knicks or Celts.
NOON HAS COME AND GONE AND I HAVENT HAD A BEER 🍺 YET————DISCONCERTING/ DISAPPOINTING 🍺🤪
🤣🤣🤣
noon has come and gone and Kenny is still the coach — disconcerting.
Windhorst is putting it out there that Lebron isn’t willing to take a pay cut next season.
And that Harden will take a pay cut to get us under the second apron (probably something like 27/30/33)
Giannis for the 26 FRP and the 2033 unfrozen FRP and Mobley, probably Allen and Strus for Bron who takes their $46m in salary.
Tyson, Merrill and whoever else you can resign /develop or get as a ring chaser
Koby develops scrap heap guys like Tomlin and CPJ to fill out the roster.
the sad fact is that LeBron isn’t worth it.
As for moving forward, unless you do a complete overhaul, our hands are mostly tied.
I think you run it mostly back, hope for LeBron and better chemistry when the pieces have longer, and go from there.
as painful as it seems, I think you have to hedge a bit on Harden and Mitchell’s $. I like something like 3/90 for Harden with a PO. More money than the Clips offered for the extra year. theoretically, Mitchell could walk if not extended BUT I don’t see him getting paid like that as an UFA. i wouldn’t hate not offering the extension and saying something like “prove it and we’ll do the supermax” Harden and Mitchell need to commit to all the stuff KAT and Brunson did, and then maybe maybe we can be a “whole is better… Read more »
Let Harden walk. We’re gonna be paying him $30 mil when he’s 39? Just, no.
That’s not happening. Sorry for your loss.
We are a good but not great team with a lot of holes. No third big. Poor defensive backcourt. Little real forward length/depth. Lack offensive punch in the frontcourt. A lot of 6’2-6’5″ guys. Not many 6’7″-6’9″. Turnovers.
With or without Garland/Harden, this is where we are. 2nd round good but not a real contender. Can make the Conf Finals with the right matchup, but fodder for the genuine article.
It isn’t coaching or rotations or any of that. Though that can improve, it did not cost us advancing.
The role players were OK but not great. Merrill & Strus each had one big game. And a couple other OK ones, but we played 18. Schröder had one critical one and a couple OK. Wade played good D but broke double digits, what, twice?
RAOUL/ SIMMO —- GOOD POINTS— WILL BE AN INTERESTING SUMMER—— WILL THEY HAVE SOME MOVES ( COACH) BEFORE THE DRAFT—— CHECKING ALL MOCK DRAFT s — CAVS COULD POSSIBLY GET A SERVICEABLE PLAYER —— HAWKS/ PISTONS/ KNICKS WILL ALSO IMPROVE PROBABLY MORE IN THE DRAFT
FTS GOOD ARTICLE ON CAVS TEAM/ SHORTCOMING s ———THE WAY HARDEN CAME ACROSS POST GAME INTERVIEW—— IT WONT SHOCK ME —- WILL GREATLY DISAPPOINT ME —- THAT HE WILL BE BACK
I’m ok with them turning him into a catch and shoot threes player if he stays. It’s clear that ball handling and “unlocking the bigs” is beyond him.
not obvious if KA designed a system that would work at this level
I am afraid we are stuck with him for a while. actually, he would be fine to have if he was playing a smaller role, and we had the mythical “really good big wing”.
I REALLY LIKE SPIDA AS A PLAYER/ HUMAN BEING/ HAS DONE ALOT FOR THE TEAM/ CITY——- BUT PART OF ME WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN THE BIG 3 MOBES / LAURI/ JA GROW ( CAVS CAUGHT THE LEAGUE OFF GAURD—-GOING BIG —— DUBS SMALL BALL WAS STILL THE TREND). TRADE SEXTON FOR SOME KIND OF DECENT RETURN— BETTER DRAFT PICK THAN ICE —— AND ALL THE DRAFT PICKS WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO DRAFT OR TRADE——— THE CAVS INITIATED THE LEAGUE GOING BIG AGAIN——- THAT IS MY “ WHAT IF “.
yeah, we lamented it at the time, but “speeding up” the development of the Garland/Mobley/Allen core was a reasonable chance to take. the “two small guards” issue and the fact that Mitchell is maybe a top 11 – 15 player and not a top 4 – 8 player — not really good enough to make it work.
going forward: there is not way that Kenny can return. he got his shot at being a HC, and he doesn’t measure up for many reasons. one of them is optics: he doesn’t look like he knows what to do and is in charge — Bickerstaff and Mike Brown looked a lot more competent. there is no point in waiting — should be announced by noon tomorrow. Dan might have had enough of Koby. I doubt it. he didn’t have the greatest hand to play — there is now way he could a couple good big wings for free so… Read more »
Prolly right on Kenny. Nice guy, but failed the key moments and more importantly didn’t seem to acknowledge this.
Feel like Koby has done about as well as he could have. I’m going to set aside the decision to move Lauri in the first place, always felt if they’d kept their 3 bigs and developed other players Cavs would be in a stronger place down the road. Cavs received a faster pathway to playoff action, which generates income which I’m sure Dan appreciates.
Koby has been good at turning scraps into role players. He’s built a top notch player development pipeline, but the big moves have hamstrung him. Part of that is Gilbert’s love of shrimps. Keeping Garland over Markennan, the Okoro mess (drafting him, screwing up his development, extending him, and then the Lonzo trade), It is pretty easy to argue that the Cavs’ long term prospects would look a lot better if they didn’t have $27 mil in guaranteed money for Schröder and Harden on the books. (As much as I hated watching Okoro and then Lonzo and Hunter). Not getting… Read more »
yup
Dan is not too wrapped up in generating income, he has more money than God already.
I’ll be rooting for Wemby and Spurs. Thunder/Knicks? – not sure which way I would go. At the arena was fairly brutal. Knicks fans nearby were reasonably well behaved, but understandably annoying. Chatted up a Cavs partial season ticket owner who was happy to see another Cavs fan (me) sitting nearby. We were both appreciative of the season, and like basically everybody on team (w possible exception of a fellow named James). Had hoped for a chance to show appreciation for home team after game, but that was just not happening. Knicks (at least this post-season) travel well. Loudest visitors… Read more »
Good on you flying the flag , Patrick!
Westin downtown was swarming with Knicks fans on my way home tonight, damn shame LOL
the one Knicks fan I hated to see is Clueless Stephen A., and he was on every show for the rest of the night.
I was watching game 3 in a bar. the only good thing was when the camera panned over famous NYC celebs, some half drunk guy was shouting at them real loud: “fuck you Spike Lee, fuck you Ben Stiller, fuck you … “. I told the bar tender “I’ll have two of whatever that guy is drinking”.
I would venmo that guy if I could. I was so effing sick of the celeb cam after game 2. Not a huge fan of Swift/Kelsey, but stoked they showed up at the Cavs crib as a retort.
gotta admit that Burson looked pretty darn good. don’t know if he is in a hot streak or what, but he has made me a fan (other than playing in NY)
COLD ONES —- WILL BE RIGHT OVER RAOUL———- POSTED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO—- THERE WILL BE ALOT OF “ WHAT IF S “ SURFACING——- CAN GO TO OUR DRAFT PICK s SEXTON/ ICE —- TO THE SPIDA TRADE— THE LIST GOES ON ——- WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE COMMENT s POSTED
now is the time to second guess that stuff, but don’t take it to seriously — it is always easy to see what the smart move would have been after five years or so. —- off to Tony’s.
Sexton (for us) was better than expected for a #8 pick but bad lotto luck.
Okoro was a miss who I liked a lot.
Draft picks, FO and coaching are about all the same. We’ve been a B/B+ franchise. Very good but never overachieving outside of maybe a stretch in 21-22 and the 24-25 and never getting excellent as Indiana and NY have done.
You want more but it takes a LOT of luck
starting now, it is time to figure out what to do going forward. and the cupboard is beyond bare. for some selfinflicted pain, we can review the trades that got us to where we are.
THANK YOU TREIZE AND ALL YOU CTB BROS——— EVEN THOUGH WE MIGHT DISAGREE AT TIMES YOUR ENLIGHTENED OPINION s ARE ALWAYS WELCOMED/ APPRECIATED———“ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ ———- SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING SUMMER!!!
I am about to head out for a couple cold ones!
Im not sure why but this Cavs playoff run was the least enjoyable in recent memory. Just not a real likeable squad imo
for one thing, we saw a couple other teams ascend to another level of good — even if we went to the finals, it would be a long shot against OKC and/or SA.
I’ll point out that very few cTb commenters had the season ending as late as 5/25.
A great movie with the worst ending ever :( enjoy the summer
Well, interacting with all of you and the CTB faithful was the highlight of my season. I guess the real Cavs playoff run was the friends we made along the way. ♥️ Go Spurs
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYw-nhGMfLv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Thank you as always to Nate, Chris, Eli, and especially ALL COMMENTERS on another fun season that ended earlier than any of us would have wanted.
Still, have to admit I enjoyed this year much better than ’18-’19 for sure!
Seconded!
Thanks Treize, always appreciate you bringing the stats! Go Cavs
61-33 REBOUNDING—- NEED I SAY MORE ——— LET THE OFF SEASON SOAP OPERA / DRAMA START ———- SEE WHOLESALE CHANGES COMING
There is a lot to say on this, but what is clear is the Cavs have tried to get by without wings. The last three playoff losses:
2024: Boston (Tatum, Brown)
2025: Indiana (Siakam, Nesmith)
2026: NY: (Anunoby, Bridges, Hart)
Much has been made of Tower City and the small backcourt, but I think this series showed that without wings, you can win a lot of regular season games, maybe even a few playoff rounds… but without two-way, switchable defenders, you cannot finish the deal.
Yeah, but the only chance to get a good wing was Mobley over Barnes, which is not a bad choice at all. We tried so much to get one and it’s just not panned out
Understood. It’s an upper-tier kind of problem. What I think the wing deficiency exposes is the lack of switchability on defense and flexibility on offense. Harden/Mitchell cannot hide on D and Wade/Allen are not offensive enough. In general, they are not athletic enough, which is why they barely survived Barnes and the Raptor scrubs and Cade and the one-dimensional Pistons…and why they could not fastbreak a basket. Maybe Tyson can become that guy?
You hope for Tyson / Tomlin and maybe Niang or the FRP.
But there’s a reason Mikal went for 5 FRPs annd OG went for two really great young prospects…actual good wings have high market value.
Well, the past three years we lost to the Eastern Conference champ…consolation?
Proctor checking in
We had to lose a series healthy to take away the excuses. Have to learn from it, do the little things, because you can’t out talent teams unless you get Giannis and Bron for very little
Losing this way may ensure an “everything is on the table” off-season.
Oh, everything will be on the table. For one more year, Watson’s contract will be the worst deal in Cleveland…but Harden’s player option will be a close second.
I don’t mind it for the right deal. I mind an “anything is better than this burn it down” but there are swings that make sense if you can pull them off.
I don’t think Kenny survives but I also don’t think that’s a panacea.
getting Bron for free is the only chance.
44-24 REBOUNDING—— ANY QUESTION THAT THE CAVS DIDNT COME TO PLAY——— ONLY KIDDING YOURSELF——— EMBARRASSING/ FRUSTRATING/ —— FANS DESERVE MORE OF AN EFFORT!!!!!
They are trying. Knicks are just in a great zone and getting every bounce.
Fans let NY take over Rocket…iono
THAT needs to be discussed. I am shocked our fan base didn’t show up for this.
This is more the Knicks being unbelievable than us being low energy.
Shamet hitting 90% from 3 OG plus 50+ Mikal 70+
Legler comment about everyone in rhythm at once 1-9 is accurate. No one has done this, not even Indy last year.
Oh stfu.They’re not that good. They’re making a team that lost two games to Atlanta look like the GD Globetrotters.
There’s a reason they’re in rhythm. The Cavs haven’t played any defense and are completely demoralize by their idiot coach.
crash out time. take a nap
I was lucky — I failed to set the alarm to “on” so I slept through the first half.
Step one on getting them prepared for next season is firing Atkinson. I’ll be disappointed if he’s the Cavs head coach next season.
no chance of that. unfortuately that is about the only decent move the Cavs have.
Numbers don’t lie, the point differential is nuts: whatever you think about the individual players they are all playing awesome at once.
They lost two games BY TWO points to the Hawks. If your only losses are one possession games, you’re good. This is as strong as any of the LeBron EC runs
no way. the Cavs were undefeated through the first three rounds of the playoffs every year with LeBron.
No, what the Knicks are doing and the level they are playing at is as strong. My bad, wasn’t clear, but 12-2 with two one-possession losses is up there with Cavs 16-17.
MGK in the house, representin’
Appreciate the humor, even when a bit of gallows
Trade everyone and rebuild around Mobley and Tyson.
THIS
I’m open to keeping Proctor, CPJ, Tomlin and Bryant. Maaaaybe Strus and Merrill. Everyone else gotta go.
And I will always love Jarrett Bookstore Allen, but sometimes you gotta break up for everyone’s good.
“ EVERYTHING IS OK SPIDA —— WE ARE STILL WINNING THE ANALYTIC s 🤮”
DISCUSSING TEE TIME/ WHICH GOLF COURSE FOR TOMORROW
Long convo between coach and just DM
Any speculations?
OMG
JA 1 FG ATTEMPT 🤮
And only 2 boards
Knicks will have a good chance in the Finals. Something I’m a bit surprised to say.
But the diff is less than 20 (finally), so let’s not get ahead of ourselves just yet…
After watching the halftime “analysis,” I would love to see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq have to explain how the Cavs came back and won.
Why I’m still at arena
HATE TO SAY I POSTED THIS EARLIER TODAY ABOUT CAVS “ NOT WANTING TO GO BACK TO NEW YORK——- READY TO GET THEIR GOLF CLUBS OUT “ ——- I HATE BEING CORRECT!!! —- NOT REALLY—- “ THE “ MRS NOMAD SAYS I AM NEVER RIGHT
What are the improvements needed for this team for next season?
The plot is being laid out in my opinion for Bron to comeback, one last championship or deep conference playoffs run then tour the 25th season.
Because I’d rather have him anytime than James Harden.
This is a good conversation for the upcoming offseason. This series magnifies our deficiencies, but it’s pretty clear the Knicks are in a space we cannot match.
Keeping the game on in the background. Good time to fold some laundry, water indoor plants, work on next year’s taxes, etc.
Heading out for a jog. Might be back later to inspect the carcass.
I can’t remember last FG.
Welp.
Pathetic. This team has quit in its coach in the eastern conference finals. Analytically, they’re ahead though.
It is hard to keep going when you know the other team is better.
SA got crushed G3. OKC got crushed G4. Minny got crushed in an elimination game. It happens all the time.
Tonight perhaps we let go of the rope a little. But, it isn’t like it is gonna make a difference.
Nice… this morning was the first time Stephen A. and I agreed on something.
Again, just as a reminder, by point differential, this New York Knicks are the best team in NBA history since going down 2-1 to the Hawks.
We have flaws. But to say they are playing well right now is an understatement.
Agreed–we literally cannot get into the lane. The have sealed it off. Our only offense is Harden drawing fouls.
I think both fan bases are booing Harden’s free throws, BTW….
Bummer.
Defense gets torched, Kenny subs in 4 guard lineup with a 6’4″ small forward LOL
The game is not even 14 minutes old. Ugh
Harden is just a basketball terrorist. Hope to God the Cavs dont extend him
They cannot. He has cost them so many baskets on turnovers and not getting back on defense…I cannot watch this next year.
Gave up 38 points with garbage defense, should be ashamed.
Another 38 point first quarter by the Knicks.
Cavs defense really not up to the task this first quarter. Sigh.
So fun following a small market team. NBA LP asks “would you like to watch some key plays to catch up?” Sure, ok. It provides 5 Knicks buckets.
Well tbf, the Knicks are the better team and thus provide lore and better highlights
Shamet 14 for his last 18 from 3?! Thats unbeatable
All of them wide open, mind.
You beat me to it!
But that’s the thing. Our guys have had lots of wide open shots. Haven’t gone in.
Also true.
Knicks have done everything right, closed out all their series as quickly as possible, gotten lots of rest, and are reaping the benefits.
Is that right? Wow. It helps when he’s left wide open, like on that last one.
I am having flashbacks to the 2010 series against the Magic. Anyone else old enough to remember Nelson, Lewis, Alston, and Turkoglu launching threes at ridiculous percentage? A few of those guys were on steroids, at least…
Merrill and Wade.
The way the Knicks fight over screens versus the Cavs’ passive switching is not a great sign.
Well, let’s try to fight on.
You never know what could happen if you fight on. Someone gets hot. Someone goes cold. Someone turns an ankle. Etc.
Go Cavs.
Mobley & Mitchell
If they actually play well defensively, we’ll win
NO ONE IS RUNNING BACK ON DEFENSE GET SOME FRESH LEGS IN KENNY ARE YOU ASLEEP???????
GET STRUS OUT OF THERE! MISSED 3 AND DIDN’T RUN BACK ON DEFENSE
Enough of the breakaways for the Knicks already.
U THE MAN !!! DASPEC 90 …………. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “
GO CAVS !!! ——HOPING THIS IS NOT THE LAST LIVE CTB ———- TYSON TO THE RESCUE!!!!
He has been pooptastic so far, sadly
I’ve done my preparations for this game: I’m starting with an IPA, and I’ve got hard liquor on the bench if I need it.
No Schröder. Tyson time.
Go Cavs! Either way, going to be hoarse tomorrow.
Let’s go Cavs.