NBA Draft Open Thread
2012-06-28
So, this is it. I’d rally you all with a Braveheart speech or some such, but I’m kind of a fatalist. It’d be a downer, probably. (“I know we are all deeply flawed human beings, alienated from one another, incapable of true empathy, but arbitrarily bound together by this basketball team. I’m not even from Cleveland, by the way…“) But tonight’s the night where the future of our Cleveland Cavaliers is determined to either a large or small extent. Probably large. Big night, in all likelihood. Might not be, though. We could totally look back on this night, and go, “Remember when we were all convinced of how momentous an occasion the 2012 draft was going to be, and then nothing particularly consequential happened?” That would be weird, though. Seems like we’d be saying that sort of thing in a nuclear wasteland wrought from war with a brutally violent alien race. Y’know, after some perspective was gained. It’s hard to care about sports when your entire family has immolated, and you’re drinking irradiated water out of a cup you carved from your dear pet dog Hobbes’s pelvis.
I’m geting off track. This is an important night, probably. So let’s get out there, and KILL SOME ALIENS! draft boldly and intelligently. Not us, of course. Chris Grant is the actor here. We will not participate in the decision-making process at all. We’ll be sitting at home, because none of us are qualified to work in an NBA front office, with our hope and sweaty palms. Maybe a beer. Definitely a beer. (If you’re wondering, had the linked article been mine and not Mallory’s, all the players would have been PBR, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist would have been the cheapest bottle of champagne imaginable.)
Anyway, updates: we’ll have them for you here as picks and/or trades are made. Feel free to cheer, argue, yell, pontificate, etc. in the comment section. Enjoy the spectacle, everyone.
UPDATE I: Chris Broussard is reporting the Cavs are offering the Bobcats the fourth, 24th, and 33rd pick in exchange for the second and 31st picks. Most everyone assumes they’re going after Beal.
UPDATE II: The Cavs take Dion Waiters. The world disintegrates like a cookie beneath the rump of a corpulent eight year-old.
UPDATE III: The Cavs traded the 24th and the two second-rounders to Dallas for Tyler Zeller.
Dion Waiters is going to be Rodney Stuckey 2.0….
I’m not dissatisfied and it’s definitely not what I expected. Can’t wait for Kyrie to come to the Barclays center…
My reaction to the draft as a whole:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSklJQmfbzM
Looking forward to Cody Zeller next year.
Dude waiters is Gunna be a stud, I was the only guy celebrating at my draft party though.
Great trade for Zeller. Second round rarely results in rotation players, and one of those picks would have been a major project stashed in the D League. Zeller was projected to go in the lottery and Cavs got him with the 24th pick and second round fluff.
Traded Jamal Crawford for Mihm…
We drafted DaJuan Wagner and Chris Mihm. Time to start checking the 2013 mock drafts.
I’m going to pretend we did the Blazers trade with our 33rd and 34th picks randomly included, got Waiters at 6, and took Zeller at 11.
Somehow, this makes me feel less horrible.
Well, Hollinger giveth, Hollinger taketh away: In the tail end of the first round and throughout the second, we’re sorting through several big men with fairly weak Draft Rater résumés. The Rater is a particularly harsh judge at the center position, where it frowns on the prospects of four centers with first-round aspirations — Tyler Zeller, Meyers Leonard, Fab Melo and Festus Ezeli — and flat-out mocks Miles Plumlee, who is off-the-charts bad with a 2.49 Draft Rater projection.
I like the Zeller pick. Now if we can buy a later pick for Sully we’re GOLDEN.
@Pete if you are saying that you are not selling yourself on him, and actually wanted him at 4 you are lying. The fact is if we got him at 7 it would be different, but we didn’t. We got him at 4. So now, we are trying to convince ourselves it was not a bad pick. Think about it. We not arguing it was a good pick, we are trying to convince ourselves its not a bad pick. @Chris UK the issue with the zone D is the fact that at his size it is a question if he… Read more »
*Head explodes*
Analysis: The Mavs made this selection for the Cavaliers in a trade. The Cavs are stockpiling size and to get Zeller this late is a huge value pick. They had to give up the 24th, 33rd and 34th picks to get him, but Zeller is a lottery type talent and the Cavs don’t really need three more young players right now. From CBSsports.com
Time to retire early. Tribe looks to beat powerhouse Orioles tonight. Not thrilled by Cavs moves.
I AM NOT HAPPY! AAAAARGH
Wow…did we really just trade the REST of our draft for him? That seems awful steep to me to move up 7 spots. Would have much rather held out or just traded #24 and #34 at least.
I’ll feel better if Sullinger and PJ3 are gone by the time we hit 24
to move, what, 7 spots? For Zeller?
sigh…………………………………………………………..
We gave up all our other picks.
PG: Irving
SG: Waiters
SF: Gee
PF: AV / TT
C: Zeller
Nice young team but still feels like a couple of lotto picks short of a contender.
24 and both 2nd rounders? Yeeeeeeesh.
Yay! Not Fab Melo!
Shit we just got Zeller. Don’t know what for….
Trade with Mavs…
next pick is our!!!!
Insight on Waiters from FTS here: http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/6/28/3123446/nba-draft-syracuse-perspective-on-dion-waiters
Explains why he was a 6th man and why his zone D isn’t relevant.
Look, I’m not stoked but I feel more confident than I would with Barnes/Drummond.
@Donald I’m not trying to sell myself on him as a player. I like him at 6-8, just not at 4. In all honesty, I think it’s just a shock to everyone here since it literally came out of left field. And also, reports seem to peg his not starting as punishment for his behavior his Freshman season. That’s a serious concern of mine, but if he grows up a little there’s no doubt he can play. When Boehiem has been interviewed about him he raves about his talent and says he’s one of the best guard players he’s ever… Read more »
NOOOO. Morey knows what he’s doing. PLEASE trade Varajao for the rights to Royce White. PLEASE.
trade 24 and 33 for 18 and take zeller or pjIII
Think about it, you should never have to “sell” a top 5 pick. The fact that we are tying to convince ourselves this is a good pick says quite a bit. With that said, I just don’t know about this guy. I don’t like that he didn’t start on his own team at all. Most people can’t even name the people who started in front of him on his own team! We talk about Barnes, but this guy was just as bad in big games as Barnes. He only played Zone defense in College and is a big concern matching… Read more »
What that Tom Pestak guy said.
Well, I certainly like the Hollinger comments better than the Draft Express ones. Here’s hopin.
Err…make that #24 and #34 for #16. Darn typos…
I don’t think I would trade Andy at this point. Starting to get too deep in the draft to make it worthwhile. That being said, I have to think that we could make Houston a really good offer to move up from 24 to 16. Perhaps 22 and 34 for 16?
Right – if they wanted best possible wing – after MKG and Beal were gone, they may have just gotten him. And yes, Hollinger is notoriously right about every team except the Cavs (no one can stand up to God’s hatred of Cleveland Sports) he DID have Waiters ranked as the best wing in this draft – and he is usually right about wings. The dude can flat out score and he’s BIG. 220 he’s a tank at SG.
You’d have to figure the Rockets would be willing to trade one of their 15 first round picks for Andy, right?
After reading through a few of the scouting reports available, I feel much better about picking Waiters (although I STILL wish they would have managed to either trade back and pick him later or traded up to get Beal). Pretty much his “weaknesses” are character (reportedly, the only reason that he was not allowed to start and he has been better this last season), his PG skills (he’ll only be playing 2-guard next to Kyrie anyway and he has a great handle), and shot selection. Everything else is reportedly top-notch. Being a UC alumni and having seen him play, there’s… Read more »
Priceless
“Veteran NBA scout just texted me. “Most unpredictable draft I’ve seen in 30 years. We’ve been blowing smoke up each other’s asses for weeks”
Retweeted by Lang Whitaker “
@Rick in Boise
The point is that Waiters is not a risk statistically. Drummond had mediocre to average advanced stats, Waiters has incredible advanced stats.
How come we did not offer SAC to exchange picks for releasing a lottery protect.
Now they’re trying to trade Andy for Barnes?
Have a pub pack of Great Lakes brews hauled down to DC from the North Coast. Currently consuming Eliot Ness amber waiting for a slick trade announcement and trying desperately to be comforted by comforting words of John Hollinger. Not yet succeeding.
DWade is 6’4.75 with shoes. Waiters is 6’4 flat with shoes. Height probably wont be that much of an issue.
Seriously, how do you guys know that Waiters isn’t a better player for the Cavs than Barnes/Robinson/Drummond? Beal/MKG were off the board, nothing we can do about that.
Based on advanced stats and position of need (wing) I think Grant probably made the right choice.
According to comps we now have a backcourt of CP3 and Wade – seems like a stretch but if it pans out, Christ!
I want to like this pick, but I am tired of this team having undersized players. Kyrie and Andy (who is really a PF) are the only ones who have anything resembling ideal size for their position.
Please trade back into the top 15 and save this draft . . .
Waiters isn’t nearly as risky as Drummond. Drummond doesn’t seem to care to get better.
Cavs reportedly trying to deal Andy to GS for Barnes.
looks like he can play basketball:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNZyi1I9O8&feature=related
If Waiters is high risk/high reward… how does that differ from Drummond? (who is, well, 7 feet tall)
He is big and strong enough to guard pretty much any 2 guard in the league, don’t know how under-sized he is. Character issues? He had a rough adjustment as a college freshman and has been a class act and team leader since, who can’t relate to that? 36% from 3 is probably better than questionable, wouldn’t you think? Especially combined with his ability to put it on the floor and finish at the rim. I’m excited at the potential here.
Looking thru picks since Lebron in 2003….Cavs have done terrible aside from the very obvious #1s. So no there isn’t a ton of reason to “trust” management as suggested here. I really hope I’m wrong because saying that it doesn’t matter because they will just go back to the lottery is a terrible answer. Kyrie will just leave if they are several years behind schedule.
Westbrook/Barbosa….that’s pretty spot-on. It wasn’t until Game 7 of the Finals that i realized Barbosa wasn’t the PG on OKC…
Alright. I’m trying to will myself into being more optimistic about the pick, but that Rodney Stuckey thing set me back quite a bit.
So now, i am extremely excited that we drafted an under-sized SG with character issues who came off the bench in college and has a questionable outside shot. What more could anyone possibly want?
@ Cranky M, they thought Westbrook was best case scenario Leandro Barbosa. The comparisons generally are based in play style. Waiters is a combo guard, like Stuckey is.
Also, Hollinger made some absurdly accurate predictions last year that would have helped several teams.
Cranky M – Waiters is a smaller wing like Stuckey, they’re both strong… comparisons should stop there because Waiters is a very solid shooter from range. He’s a better shooter than Wade even! I want to be optimistic about it.
DraftExpress is an absolute joke, by the way. Look at their past comparisons and it’s clearly not based on anything but eye tests.
Hollinger: As I noted with Leonard a year ago, wing players — especially bigger ones — with strong Draft Rater marks virtually never fail. Of the eight players to rate above 13 in the past decade, the worst among them was Josh Childress. Five of the players have played in an All-Star Game, and Rudy Gay may play in an All-Star Game soon. The seventh player is Leonard. This year, we have two names to add to that list: Dion Waiters and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Kidd-Gilchrist is probably the safest pick on the board — a big wing who plays defense,… Read more »
Drummond to the D… It’s Darko all over again LOL
When Rodney Stuckey is your best case scenario, and not your worst case, you are not worth a number 4 pick.
How reliable is DraftExpress, generally?
If they pick up PJ3 or Jeff Taylor @ 24, this turns out to be a pretty good draft. SF is deeper than SG in this class, IMO.
That makes me feel a bit better Jorge…but at the same time that GM could have been KAAAAAAAAAAHNNNN! for all we know…
I’m okay with Waiters – if we suck, great, another awesome pic. But if this doesn’t work out… are the Cavs allergic to #4 overall picks or something? Y U NO pick Valanciunas?
From DraftExpress:
Dion Waiters best case: Rodney Stuckey
Worst case: Smush Parker.
I missed Smush parker.
Next Wagner will come..
@CrankyM – if it’s a gas stove, no need to wait! :) If it’s electric… please don’t (your neighbors will thank you, LOL)
p.s. and how do we know Grant didn’t work him out elsewhere.. or was watching someone else’s? Them GMs are sneaky….
From ESPN:
May 24 Update: A number of NBA scouts who I really respect have been telling me for more than a month that the real sleeper in this draft is Syracuse sophomore Dion Waiters. One GM went even further. “There are really only two potential superstars in this draft. One is a sure thing — freshman Anthony Davis. The other one is Waiters. He can be an electric scorer in the NBA. There’s some Dwyane Wade in him.”
Who had these picks in their mock draft?
May 24 Update: A number of NBA scouts who I really respect have been telling me for more than a month that the real sleeper in this draft is Syracuse sophomore Dion Waiters. One GM went even further. “There are really only two potential superstars in this draft. One is a sure thing — freshman Anthony Davis. The other one is Waiters. He can be an electric scorer in the NBA. There’s some Dwyane Wade in him.”
Everyone should calm down, show some trust in our front office. A kyrie dion back court doesn’t sound all that bad to me. Would I have liked Barnes there? Yes. Should they have traded back? Probably. But Chris Grant probably knows some things I don’t.