Live Thread: Cavs vs Clippers
2021-02-03In case you hadn’t been paying attention, the Collin Sexton media blitz has begun. With articles in Forbes, Fansided, and the Players’ Tribune, Sexton’s media visibility is at an all time high. Interestingly, a Clippers’ squad that lost last night to the Knicks and is coming off six straight road games is full go tonight (minus Beverly), as Kawhi wants to give it a go. I wonder if they want to avenge last night’s loss and take Sexton down a peg. I also wonder if they want to get coach Lue his first victory in Cleveland. It could get ugly.
The Cavs are also (almost) at full strength with Drummond returning to the fold, but Nance, Love, and Delly still out. After Jarrett Allen’s big showing against Minnesota, let’s hope that Drummond’s penchant for ridiculousness and JB’s tolerance of it is low. Unfortunately, I think we’ll see some of them together. We’ll see how it goes. I have a feeling the Clips will be loaded for bear. Let’s hope Garland Continues his strong play, and that the good guys shoot some danged threes.
AGREE SAD NEWS –( BUT NOT SURPRISING )– ABOUT DELLY–IF I AM THE CAVS I HIRE / OFFER HIM A COACHING POSITION IMMEDIATELY
Very sad news about Delly. Though not unexpected, sadly. Hope he can get back to the court. Still the best pure PG we have (best passer, best at running offense).
Is it weird how the injuries some Cavs players have are taking ‘longer than usual’. these are young cats and they are being treated like old vets on their last legs. find it really odd. like garland was out for a lot of games with a shoulder injury the team was mum about. you had Sexton with the ankle where he claimed to be ready then they went DNP on him at last minute. now we have Nance with the wrist where he randomly played that Knicks game but not the game before or any after. like if his wrist… Read more »
Yeah, I’ve had the same frustration, but I think you’re seeing it league-wide as a result of Covid. It’s such a weird health environment to be playing in in the first place that I think rest and healing are sometimes as much about mental health breaks as they are physical. That said, and with all due admiration for his courage in this arena, Mr. Mental Health, Dr. Love, himself, tweeting about guest editing fashion blogs and calling it “game time,” was a little tough to stomach.
Wow.
https://www.fearthesword.com/2021/2/4/22267510/matthew-dellavedova-facing-possible-retirement-due-to-ongoing-concussions
damn, tough way to go out.
Well sort of been waiting for that hammer to drop. The fact that he has been out for so long wasn’t boding well. Bummer. At this point he probably should retire. Too risky.
that stinks but health is way more important – Cavs should get another point guard – see if any vet is willing to help guys grow (Sexland) etc. I’m sure there is someone out there to play 5-10 minutes a game or every couple of games.
Mark Price?
CLF/ JOHNB—YOU BOTH MAKE VERY GOOD / VALID POINTS –I DO BELIEVE THEIR IS A ” FINE LINE ‘ COACHES HAVE TO WALK —COACHING THEIR WAY / DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN BUT ALSO FOLLOW A GM’S MANDATE TO PLAY A PLAYER (S) CERTAIN MINUTES DUE TO –GM: DRAFTED / TRADED FOR HIM / WANTS TO “SAVE HIS FACE ” ——-GM WANTS TO TRADE THAT PLAYER —GIVE HIM THE MINUTES / LET HIM PRODUCE ” HOLLOW / EMPTY STATS “———–TANKING FOR THE UPCOMING DRAFT ……………DURING MY “LONG ” LIFE I HAVE WORKED FOR CERTAIN “BOSSES” WITH THE ” MY… Read more »
Agree with Jason, JB lost credibility last night with the Dre fiasco… If I’m McGee, Prince, or Allen, I’m pissed right now…. JB claimed impact on winning and team success was the barometer for playing time, that was clearly not followed last night.
I don’t buy any FO mandate conspiracy theory, but even if there were, JB still has free will, be a leader, if they’re pulling this garbage than call them out, defy them, or quit…. acquiescing to stupid demands is not leadership.
I think you probably risk your career as a coach in the nba by calling out FO shenanigans. No one does that. Lue didn’t even do that and he clearly hated the whole play Sexton a ton thing. Reason being every team or probably near every team probably does these nonsense things sometimes to either tank or maintain a player’s trade value. I suspect in issues between coaches and FOs, coaches probably want to handle internally, because going public with tank mandates is probably a no no in the eyes of the vast majority of ownership/FOs the league who of… Read more »
he has a job because of his dad, not because of any actual coaching success…. he’ll be fine LMFAOOOO nepotism is alive and well in pro sports.
JB has gotten jobs because of his dad, not any actual coaching success LMFAOOO he’ll be fine, nepotism in pro sports is still alive and well!!!
He got his job in Charlotte and jobs here probably because of his Dad. Doubt he got his job in Minny or Houston because of Bernie. Bernie has never worked for either organization. I doubt Bernie could save his job here if he outwardly defied a Koby mandate. Bernie is an adviser, but not the guy making the calls. That is Koby. What’s more I suspect his dad being Bernie isn’t going to get him HC jobs in any other organization if he goes against something Koby wants unless Bernie is part of that specific organization. So could he be… Read more »
which means he doesn’t have anything to lose, because he’ll lose his job for sucking anyway LMFAOOOOOO
He ain’t going to lose his job if he was told to do what he is doing. Quite the opposite. He will keep it.
I also don’t find it credible any coach in the NBA would actively do what the cavs are doing, especially since those threes only started to tank after the BKN wins whereas they had remained pretty steady and even increased before that. This has tank mandate all over it.
LMFAOOO of course it’s reasonable what’s happening, they’ve been feeding Drummond ALL YEAR!!! LMFAOOOO I’ve consistently pointed out that “owning the rim” was a dedicated strategy, not some FO conspiracy.
and there’s absolutely ZERO evidence of a FO “mandate”… just speculation.
Sure it is speculation. But I find it totally bizarre a team would have a steady decrease all of a sudden of three point attempts when you actually get shooters back when before it had remained pretty steady. They aren’t feeding dre more than they have. Also seems to be keep going down even in games where he doesn’t play. Yet they are no longer even looking for treys. Dre has been here the whole time. The one consistent thing, yet all of a sudden they just stop shooting threes when they have damn near everyone back. More people than… Read more »
so defensive adjustments don’t exist? Playing disciplined, good defense like the Clips doesn’t exist? Playing bad perimeter shooters doesn’t exist? Playing two, three, four bigs doesn’t exist?
I think post-Nets performance can be easily explained, they thought they had arrived, which was a direct quote from JB himself, and now learning that flash in the pan success one night in the NBA doesn’t mean shit for the next game.
Sure I buy defensive adjustments. The clips were willing to give the midrange no doubt. I said as much, but I find it totally illogical JB would not be telling guys to pullup from three or run some stuff offball.
If he isn’t then he probably should go. Because the trend is just not acceptable in any way for any modern nba coach. He has to see that.
I find it so illogical that it is hard for me to believe he doesn’t see it.
The latter statement I 100% agree, I think it’s been the biggest strategic blunder of JB’s tenure so far this year.
I genuinely think Sexton and Garland are afraid to miss those shots, and that’s why they’re not taking them…. they’re afraid that of their teammates’ (and/or coaches’) ire, afraid of being seen as highjacking the offense, which is exactly what EVERYONE would accuse them of doing if they’re taking those shots and not making them.
no conspiracy needed, very easily logical and reasonable…. young players still trying to figure out the game!!! LMFAOOOOOO
Well if that is the case, after the last two games, I think the next few will be the test of that. Because the logical thing would be the staff to make it clear to the whole team to that they were going to fire away from the perimeter going forward, no matter the results. Green light. If they don’t even after the last nine days it just doesn’t add up. The staff would be taking a twelve gauge to their own foot. I am skeptical any staff no matter how bad wouldn’t see that and that players knowingly given… Read more »
Oh yeah, and I think that’s exactly what will happen. I’ve already seen Taurean Prince adjust the last two games, shot profile change to majority 3s after a really bad game where he jacked up a lot of 2s. JB and Garland explicitly said we’re not shooting enough 3s post game last night…. in fact, JB criticized the guards for not finding guys, and I saw another post on the net show how they missed a lot of open shooters last night. Also, Nate made a great point a game or two ago, Okoro’s not pulling the trigger at all,… Read more »
Hopefully. Don’t watch the press conferences. If both Garland and Bickerstaff called it out then presumably it will be so.
Just watched Bickerstaff’s last, and he definitely acknowledged the problem…. even invoked the word “analytics” LMFAOOO
I thought Lue’s comment in his postgame was interesting. He was asked about halftime adjustments (and don’t get me started with the fascination with ‘HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS!!1), and he said there were none. “They were taking the shots we wanted them to take”. I hope to see a different approach going forward. I can’t stomach too much more of this Neanderthal basketball.
LMFAOOO
yeah, just listened to DG’s post-game….. he literally cited the PG 3pter stats LMFAOOOO
the interesting comment from DG was that they didn’t have enough energy and movement in the 3rd quarter…. he said they get plenty of open 3s when there’s ball and man movement. To me that sounds like an execution problem, not a strategic problem…. also, it could be taken as shade towards Drummond, since DG gave a shoutout to the 2nd quarter play LMFAOOOO
We’re starting a 21 year old PG, 22 year old combo guard, 20 year old wing, and an at best above average Center who’s not a consistent winner. Teams have adjusted knowing the guards make bad decisions, it’s not a conspiracy to shoot less 3s to tank, they’re just not that good LMFAOOO bad players making bad decisions, generally playing selfishly, or inconsistently if you rather say. and as for JB and Koby, they have mediocre track records at best, they’re probably just not that good at their jobs. but if you have to entertain conspiracies or whatever for fun,… Read more »
It doesn’t even look the guards are looking to kickout now where they at least somewhat were earlier in the season.
THANKS CLF—–AGREE WITH ICE AND ALSO WITH WINDLER / STEVENS –WHO HAS BEEN A NICE SURPRISE —-ICE COMING OFF THE BENCH MAY ALLOW FOR MORE SHOTS / BUT HE HAS TO HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO TAKE THEM
yup, I think Okoro coming off the bench also might give him some more on-ball opportunities to develop his game, and he can do it against backups.
If we look at some of the most successful rookies this year, they’ve come off the bench: Vassell, Ball, Halliburton….. Wiseman struggled, but has been better off the bench.
QESTION: —SHOULD ICE CONTINUE TO START OR WOULD HE BE BETTER COMING OFF THE BENCH ………….ALSO WHAT IS A REALISTIC PPG FOR ICE—I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM 9–13 PPG THOUGHTS / COMMENTS
i do think he should come off the bench, prince and cedi really have earned the playing time, and i think letting okoro come off the bench would help him especially offensively.
honestly both windler and stevens have also earned looks because of their defense.
VERY GOOD PT LEO –I COACHED A VARSITY BOYS TEAM A FEW YEARS BACK THAT I KNEW WE WERE GOING TO STRUGGLE TO COMPETE / WIN GAMES BUT I MADE THE DECISION THAT AT LEAST WE WERE GOING TO HAVE FUN—-‘ RUN AND GUN AND HAVE SOME FUN ” BECAME OUR MOTTO —YEAH WE MAY HAVE LOST SOME HIGH POINT SCORING AFFAIRS –BUT THE PRACTICES WERE ALWAYS UPBEAT / POSITIVE AND ALSO A BIG PLUS WAS KEEPING THE PARENTS HAPPY SEEING ” THEIR LITTLE JOHNNY “–SCORE POINTS —-REALIZE NBA IS DIFFERENT / IT IS ABOUT WINNING —BUT YOU KNOW WHAT… Read more »
As I have written before think Cavs need to loosen up and run more free offense…guys still look static…they are young team that can run and should allow more ‘green light’ shooting offense…obviously there may be a threshold there but would like to see more guys attempt 3s and feel more comfortable in getting decent to good looks. Cavs are losing anyways at least try to make the games exciting…the excitement is starting to whither a bit due to stagnant offense and defense that really isn’t that good (lot of guys wide open). Let it fly!
I think you obviously have and have had the too basic offense with or without dre in since the beginning of the year. But based on that graph below I also think you have some interference from the FO.
Notice it starts to dip right after NY which was just after the back to back Bkn wins. I can’t imagine even maybe a not so creative offensive coach like JB has been ok with that much of a wild trend downward in three point attempt. I suspect Koby panicked after the BKN wins.
im really starting to think FO didnt like the winning and wants another lottery pick this year and after those BKN wins they gave JB ‘advice’ and team hasnt really looked the same since
GEORGE ” BAITED ‘ COLLIN INTO SOME ” MANO ON MANO “—-COLLIN FELL FOR IT AND GEORGE MADE HIM LOOK FOOLISH !!!!
LEO —-REMEMBER WHEN CEDI SHOT THAT ‘HORRIFIC ‘ 3 —OUCH !!!——YEP NEED TO HAVE TEAM MEETING OR INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS —DEFINE THE ROLES —DRE YOU GO GOBBLE UP THE REBOUNDS / GET YOUR PTS ON PUT BACKS / PLAY THE STRONG “D” —SEXLAND/ ICE –‘PUSH THE BALL IN TRANSITION ” LOOK FOR EASY BASKETS —CORNER 3’S —-SEXLAND DON’T “POUND ” THE BALL TOO MUCH IN 1/2 CT ACTION / PLAYERS OFF THE BALL JUST DON’T STAND THERE —GET SOME MOVEMENT —WE ARE WAY TOOOOOOOO EASY TO DEFEND !!!!!
Didnt expect to win this game – but this team’s offense is sometimes excruciating to watch. The lack of 3s is being discussed ad naseum and even Cavs players are finally talking about it. Maybe they have figured it out. Clippers attempted shit ton because they could but also 3s, if made score more points, duh. Drummond is goofy but this is who he is and Cavs have to find way to work around him and with him. Hes not going to be benched, his minutes arent going to be limited. Garland has to shoot more 3s, Sexton more 3s,… Read more »
EPM data including tonight:
Allen #25
Drummond #104 <<<<< fell over 25 spots after tonight LMFAOOOOO
Nance #108
Sexton #154 <<<<< trending in the wrong direction, defense is the problem.
Prince #183
Osman #189 <<<<< keeps playing sneaky good ball, one of the top backups in the NBA.
McGee #221 <<<<< deserves to play esp. after the Drummond fiasco tonight.
Garland #259
Dotson #279
Windler #291
Stevens #355 <<<<< defense is solid, if he could ever shoot…
Okoro #357
Wade #358
Agree with this. At this point, it’s on the coaching staff. Not gonna win in the NBA taking 10 freaking threes.
https://twitter.com/Carter_Shade/status/1357170566445342722?s=20
Andre took 13 shots in 22 minutes, silly NOT to blame him!!! LMFAOOOO
We have 20 games worth of data of him taking more shots than Darius Garland, who’s a better finisher at the rim and from 3… Andre’s taking too many shots, and there’s no excuse at all to tolerate it.
Not exclusively. Also, I suspect the staff is telling the team to feed Drummond.
yeah, no one’s blaming Dre exclusively though, love when people just make up shit to disagree with LMFAOOO
A lot of Cavs twitter has been slamming Drummond for a while…I’m sure that’s who he’s referring to…
Ahhh gotcha, I don’t know Cavs twitter, didn’t even know there was enough fans to constitute one!!! LMFAOOOOOO
Drummond also sets abysmal screens. You can’t get free for threes in the NBA without screens. He’s killing this team.
yeah, or just flat out refuses to set them to post up! LMFAO
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1357172313725292544?s=20
They’ll be a top three lottery team if they continue this…
Uh yeah. This does not actually appear to be fantasy. Shame on Koby. What a garbage and dumbass way to run a team. Never going to win no matter how many picks you stock if you actively throw away progress and tank over developing guys.
JB seems like a good dude, and the players like him, but the main criticism I recall from his Griz days was an unimaginative offense. If he continues that trend in Cleveland, when he has some good offensive players, Koby will need to make a decision…
They can’t continue to play like this.
I mean, I can see Windler getting traded somewhere where his skills are utilized, and becoming a really valuable player…right now, the Cavs aren’t even getting him looks…
I don’t believe the Cavs had a single corner three look tonight. It’s ridiculous.
Garland hit one in the right corner.
Okay, so one. Forgot that one.
LMFAOOO it’s funny that since it’s the only one, it can be clearly recalled! LMFAOOOOOO
I dont think its unreasonable to think he’s not that good of a coach. The rotations are goofy, out of bounds plays are laughably bad. No one even attempting wide open 3s is bizarre. It jsut seems like we play defense really hard and show effort thats good enough, and that isnt always the case. really believe this team could play a lot better and smarter with the young talent and potential they have.
Yes. Frankly I was concerned with that when he took over permanently because I remembered hearing the same thing or maybe reading it on grizzly bear blues about his Memphis tenure. However I cannot imagine the seemingly inexorable decrease in threes is coming from the staff. This feels like a Koby/FO mandate. That doesn’t mean JB is safe from criticism. I have generally given him a pass because the defense was so much better for much of the season. However, Half court offense has been way too basic and lacking since the beginning of the year even in non-dre minutes.… Read more »
zero stocks for Drummond….. completely mailed it in tonight, some of the most unprofessional ball I’ve ever seen tonight. Like Kobe not taking shots and intentionally losing.
Great job JB, your offense is a running joke now.
https://twitter.com/Carter_Shade/status/1357168569079971840?s=20
Starting to wonder if Love will be allowed to take threes whenever he’s back…
LMFAOOOOO fire JB on the spot if that happens!!!
Crappy post ups are the new market inefficiency…
it’s why nerds have no business in sports!!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO
Hey Altman, is having two small guards nit shoot 3s the Portland model? I seem to remember Dame & CJ getting 3s up. Coupled with Drummond’s continued high usage/low efficiency with no consequences, I am starting to think we need a new coach.
Not there yet, but losing confidence.
It is not that we lost. I expected that. But our gameplan is DUMB!
It’s the 1981 Portland model…Koby is a fan of the classics…
Might have to drop Ike from my fantasy squad, enjoy watching him but man his box scores are ugly
They’re doing him no favors.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1357165340313198598?s=20
1985 would be progress. More like 1980. I was watching the NBA then, and this was about as many threes as you’d see then.
you have stated this same criticism multiple times….and I agree! we need to start thinking if JB is actually a good coach for this team. The Bielein era was so weird any coach would have been better. I dont think we expect team to beat title contenders but this game never should have gotten out of hand the way it did, thats coaching.
Would you believe??? Yeah Cavs fans been yelling about it all night
Man some reporter needs to flat out address this yo JB. Sexton and Garland really good 3 pt shooters and yet….. man Cavs trying to bring NBA back to 1980
this was Drummond’s get me out of town game.
4-13 from the field, 5 rebounds, -33 plus/minus.
team high 3 turnovers…. utter trash performance.
I tend to agree. Though if he has back issues, that can make you look lethargic and contact averse.
fair point, but then why even play him in the 2nd half?
I’m okay with that…
https://twitter.com/cwmwrites/status/1357164533941493773?s=20
The scoreline many predicted. Clips doing enough to stop it being close.
The Clips are obviously really good, but this was an embarrassment from a game planning perspective. I can only assume the coaches are telling the team to take twos and avoid threes. They aren’t even running sets to generate threes.
There’s definitely instructions being followed.
Yes.
https://twitter.com/Cavsanada/status/1357142711309111296?s=20
AC keeps saying ‘my goodness’ everytime George makes an open three….what. do. you. think. is. going. to. happen.?
He’s given up asking the Cavs to defend.
LMFAOOOOOO yup!
Alright I’m outtie 5000.
Too easy. Think that’s game.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1357162663164403712?s=20
Will this be a season low for attempts from three?
I mean, Cavs are playing like it’s 1980…
Really going to have to get to work for it not to be. Season low I believe is 16.
That’s BS right there
And rewarding a clumsy effort to dunk.
Can’t be overturned even if they barely touched him.
DG SPLASH KEEP SHOOTING YOUNG MAN!!!!!!
Hope DG is disciplined for that three…
Wild sequence of events finishing with dre finishing a layup. Wildest part of that sequence.
Drummond’s defense has been non-existent tonight.
https://twitter.com/CavsTheTweets/status/1357160360713805827?s=20
https://twitter.com/RickNoland/status/1357158380524208131?s=20
TIME TO GO ” KISS THE DOG AND PET THE WIFE “
Ciao Nomad. We’ll tell you all about the win later ;)
enjoy your night NOMAD!
Sexton baited into the floater, had the pull up 3 open.
TOO MUCH ISO BY SEXTON RIGHT NOW
Sexton just cooked one on one by PG
And Lou will
Ha sexton got utterly eaten alive by zubac
I’ve got it. Cavs stay in touch with a volume of mid-rangers, Last 3 minutes they start bombing 3s FTW.
Clips won’t see it coming. Brilliant.
Ha, genius, madness, and coins. Think that would be the madness side tho lol.
Hard to make up much of a lead if you can’t stop them and aren’t taking threes. More treys sexton.
Warcrime from Sexton on that three…
JB gonna hook him!!!!
awful defense Sexton on Lou., at least he paid him back.
Fake and flail by Windler.
THERE SHOULD BE NO DISCUSSION ON DRE / ALLEN——ALLEN SHOULD BE THE STARTER PERIOD
https://twitter.com/realcavsfans/status/1357159088782774273?s=20
DID A “CLF ” ON THAT MIKEO
I DID A NOMAD!!!!!
Cedi needs to be officially censured for that made three…
ha haaaa!
Ha Nice
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO
https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1357152997374124036?s=20
LMFAO insightful stuff Chris!
https://twitter.com/Carter_Shade/status/1357154243803820033?s=20
Sigh. That felt like a nail. Didn’t call that bs.
Thought that was a two by George.
And all ass.
Not the buzzer beater. The one before that.
Ugh stevens.
Cavs don’t even look to the three point line in transition. So weird.
Can’t take a three, might miss it…
I don’t mind that…. one of the few things i hate about modern transition game
Disagree. Especially open corner three with numbers
Yeah. Should go for layups, but if enough guys get back usually threes are open.
Problem is it has generally been where we generate most of our three pijnt attempts this season.
yeah, but my guess it’s probably in flow on secondary transition actions.
To some extent, but we’ve gotten a fair amount in primary as well.
Not many of late tho.
David Wood a recap subtitle last week was “if not for lebron.” tonight’s shoud be “if not for Drummond.”
Lou Williams, pick and roll Master.
Ahhh Stevens good cut, but gotta catch it!!!
Just because the Clips look like they could win this any time, it doesn’t mean they will. I am liking the fight Cavs are showing here.
it’s a good game!!! Except for Dre LMFAOOO
Nice hands cedi. Nice pass dg. Nice second effort cedi.
Great finish, Allen.