ROLT: Wild Week, Wither Lineup Data, and Cavs vs Knicks
2024-03-03This recap, opinion, and live thread covers one of the most vexing weeks of the season, starting with a wild win over over the Mavs, a brutal loss to the Bulls, and a ho-hum victory over the Pistons. It’s fair to say Cleveland won a game they should have lost when Max Strus hit the second longest buzzer beating game winner in NBA history, Tuesday, and lost a game they should’ve won when the Bulls took them down in double overtime. Both contests were brutal collapses that saw Cleveland blow lead with the ball, with less than 10 seconds left. In the Mavs game, the Cavs gave up a would-be game winning layup to P.J. Washington only to watch Max Strus drain his fifth triple of the last four minutes from 59 feet.
Comically, Luka Doncic was guarding either Max or his screener for all five Strus triples in the last five minutes that won the game. It was a game of runs for these two squads. Cleveland gave the game away when a five point lead in the early fourth turned into a 10 point deficit with 4:38 left. J.B. left the bench squad in until the five minute mark, waiting way too long to get a time out, while he watched Georges Niang was bleed points on both sides of the ball. Fortunately, Max Strus and the Jason Kidd led Cavs bailed JB out, with Max canning four triples in just about a minute of game time, and Kyrie Irving and Tim Hardaway Junior collaborating on an inexplicably bad inbounds after a made Cleveland basket.
These are two teams that can’t get out of their own way late in games. I don’t trust Luka Doncic’s D at all. Meanwhile the turnover bug has bitten Donovan Mitchell again. He had three in the fourth quarter against Dallas, and two against Chicago, many of the careless variety. The Cavs played a similar situation on Wednesday when they scratched out a three point lead with 2:14 to go against Nic Vucevic’s and Andre Drummond’s Bulls who were killing them on the boards. Cleveland was unable to muster a basket for the rest of regulation, with Donovan taking a lot of hero ball shots, and the Cavs blowing an inbounds after Darius Garland was tackled. Only a missed Vuc freebie kept Cleveland from losing in regulation.
Cleveland battled to a stalemate in the first overtime. After Spida split a pair of freebies to give Cleveland the lead 115-112 with 12 seconds left, Jarrett Allen was way too up on professional foul hunter, DeMar DeRozan, who grifted his way into a threebie at the line. Then Mitchell clanked an iso pull-up from 20 feet. Cleveland had nothing left after that, and when we saw the same group come back out for the second OT, we knew the Cavs weren’t going to win this one. Everyone was too gassed. Cleveland went 2-12 in the final five minutes while an exhausted crew just fouled the crap out of the Lawyerball firm of DeRozan, Bitum, and White, who went to the line a whopping 11 times and scored 17 points in the last five.
Wednesday saw a brutal collapse (twice!) with the lead in the closing seconds and was emblematic of an inability to execute offense in crunch time and a tendency revert to hero-ball and “might as well punt” isolation plays. Cavs twitter was all up in its feels, with most of the online community spitting out the sour taste in their mouths. Worst off, everyone is wondering why the Cavs haven’t been bombing away threes like they were before the all-star break, or giving minutes to guys who are clearly worse players than guys who are sitting.
CtB’s Ben Werth was apoplectic.
JB is going to kill us. His obsession with LeVert has driven me about mad. The best lineup in the entire effing league by a wide margin is Allen, Wade, Okoro, Strus, and DM. When Mobley and DG came back, at least JB still subbed in Wade and Okoro as the first guys. He has since gone crazy by putting LeVert into Ices spot and running Wade out there for three minutes before going to Niang.
Niang has been ok. LeVert has been as ok as he gets. But, the damn team is much worse with the rotation he running out there since the All Star break.
Luka made sure to get Wade switched off of him every time he could. That says something.
I’m glad Strus finally made some damn threes.
Eli Kim:
Niang is going to kill us if he doesn’t shoot 40%+ from three in more important situations. LeVert has been okay in my mind but there’s minimal lineups where Niang is a positive.
Nate Smith:
I’m just baffled by not playing the way that had them winning 18 out of 20. It really feels like JB’s being intentionally obtuse.
Ben Werth:
It’s abjectly shocking to not use the single best 5 man unit in the damn league.[Mitchell, Allen, Strus, Wade, Okoro – see below]
Also, where is Craig Porter Jr? He gets signed and now he isn’t even on the bench. Is he hurt? what the hell?
Niang is fun sometimes, but I just don’t understand giving him minutes over Wade. Niang is flashier, but gets torched with his inability to recover on the weakside.
LeVert at least didnt take as many hope shot slop from 12 feet last night (Bulls Game)…
All that being said, if Garland and Strus start to find their 3point stroke, this team is going to be very tough.
Mobley is bumming me out a bit. Great game, but he is noticeably less bouncy now than he was a couple seasons ago. He used to dunk on the way up all the time. He can still get up, of course, but whatever happened to his knee makes me feel like he has lost bit of that bunny quickness.
Before Strus went nuts in the 4th the other night, you could tell he felt GOOD. His hops in that first half were impressive, especially on that one block…
JB is holding this team back by not trusting stats. 5 man unit plus/minus is barely an advanced stat. For the love of God, use lineups that are awesome. I just don’t effing get it.
Then Eli gave Chris Fedor a clapback courtesy of the CtB Twitter account (I’ll never call it “X”).
Maybe use any of 5 lineups with a better net rating and at least 50 mins played? https://t.co/gOyaFlp00q pic.twitter.com/nWoa3mOaeD
— Cavs:TheBlog (@CavsTheTweets) February 29, 2024
Meanwhile it was pretty embarrassing to watch Chris Fedor carry the water from this team that has become emblematic of the problem with discourse in 21st century. It sure feels like the Cavs org lives in a bubble where narratives counter to the company line are weeded out and not given credence, no matter how much evidence there is to back them up (and 232 minutes as of Wednesday is a lot of evidence). Dissent feels like it’s actively avoided, and the media is manipulated through access to repeat the organizational line (“we’re doing the best with what we have.”)
Finally, Cleveland played the Pistons Friday sans Mitchell and LeVert. They rode a monster second quarter from Darius Garland to coast to a comfortable, if not particularly focused win against the Pistons. Cleveland led by as many as 26 before relaxing a bit and letting Detroit get to seven before putting the clamps down to make it a double digit close. Sam Merrill finally got some run, and put up 12 points in 25 minutes. It felt like his gravity helped Garland a lot as Darius the Great went 6-7 from deep on his second quarter heater, to finish with 29/5/4 (with five turnovers)
Mobley put in a nice game (22/17/7) but it feels like he and Allen can net er be good at the same time. The Fro clanged 1-7 in this one. Auser Thompson looked good (15/7/3 with 5 steals) and everyone else on the Pistons just looked really young.
Tonight the Cavs face the Knicks, and while I was hoping it would be a referendum on J.B., it looks an awful lot like Donovan Mitchell will duck the Knicks on national T.V., if for nothing else, to keep J.B. off the hot seat. This is yet another consequence of J.B.’s disaster class in Chicago where he ran an eight man rotation on the second night of a back to back, then didn’t have two of his top guards Friday cause of knee soreness.
I had noted before the game that the Cavs needed to at least look like they’re in the same class as the Knicks for J.B. to keep his job, and this feels like the excuse du jour.
Don’t like the look or the vibes right now, but we’ll see.
Go Cavs.
😡ON SPIDA BEING OUT FOR A WEEK——- I THINK OVER ALL INJURIES LEVEL OUT FOR ALL TEAM s —-EVERY TEAM/ CITY PROBABLY THINK THEY HAVE BEEN HIT WORSE THAN OTHER TEAMS
Giannis out tonight and MIddleton been out
The latest injury update about Donovan is a bit concerning. Hopefully he’s able to return in another week or so but there seems to be a little uncertainty about how soon to expect him back. Darius will get every chance to try to get his play back on track, it looks like. And CPJ and Merrill lacking minutes won’t be a problem for awhile.
Just a brutal year for health: can’t get into a flow without the players playing. Hope Strus is back soon.
(fwiw, bone bruise is not a load management thing, so y’all need to chill about it being a consequence of minute distribution – doubt anyone on this blog will correct themselves)
any data on if the Cavs have more health issues than the average NBA team? always seems like we have the most, but probably every teams fans think that.
two of the reasons I am in favor of longer bench are (1) there seem to be a lot more injuries when guys are playing a lot of minutes, and (2) it is easier to adapt to missing players.
Let’s see. We will definitely have a test case
Thank you Dr. Steal 😂. Regardless it was originally reported as a knee injury.
You spelled “I was wrong,” wrong.
You spelled “I’m a moron” wrong!
That’s a dumb comeback.
It’s probably JB’s fault that you can’t quip.
It really isn’t any different from any other year.
We don’t have two dozen games with our starting lineup and we’ve played 60…
Go Clippers!
STEALIT -/- ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR INFORMED VIEW s/ OPINION——— HAVE TO SAY CAVS CAN T WAIT UNTIL APRIL TO THROW THAT “ INTENSITY “ SWITCH ON / SHOW IMPROVEMENT—— —-DBURKE SAID LAST NIGHT “ CAVS NOT SHOWING SENSE OF URGENCY “ ———IT HAS TO START NOW AND BECOME A DAILY HABIT——EVERY GAME SHOULD BE TREATED AS A PLAY-OFF GAME TO PREPARE THESE YOUNGSTER FOR THE REAL DEAL
I would agree. Think the next coach, if we lose in the playoffs badly and want to upgrades, might have to be an ex player – thinking like Sam Cassell / Darvin Ham / Willie Green type. I think the Xs and Os solve is largely there if we keep getting more reps together – the offense generates great looks and the defense is elite – but as far as season long habits it really does need to be someone with firsthand knowledge of how to get an 82 game team to grow up into a 16 game team. The… Read more »
dunno. any data on what fraction of the best coaches played in the NBA? Spo? Pops?
Carlisle, Lue, think we like Mosley, Q. Snyder was a CPJ level prospect if I recall correctly. Obviously historically Riley and Phil J and Jerry Sloan
Kidd and Chauncey are fair coaches but YMMV. You look at COTY winners and there’s no real pattern either.
Also I don’t think they can wait until April to throw a switch I just think you need 10-12 game stretches to make a call on whether consistency is there. We already know they can get up and the ceiling is high for spurts
AGREE GREG —/—FOCUS/ ATTENTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON WHAT THEY COULD HAVE/ SHOULD HAVE DONE BETTER TO GET A “ W”
Mobly talking after the game about his improved offensive play after that lost at home to Knicks without their entire first team roster was a bad look. Even if he is right which he isn’t no way do you go there after Knicks smacked you in face again.
HAS ANYONE READ JBs POST GAME COMMENTS———-THOUGHT s / OPINION
Which ones? The comment about not picking and choosing when we try was pretty fair.
On rewatch, a total effort loss. As Nate points out, we relaxed when Brunson went out and got jumped. And that was basically the game.
Gotta wake up and grow up: let’s see if they can do so but you can’t measure consistency over a period of days so looks like we’re waiting until April again.
1st ROUND EXIT———-PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG JB / CAVS
So listen up buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
POSTED RECENTLY THAT THE OTHER TEAM s HAVE TURNED IT UP “ A NOTCH OR2 “ IN INTENSITY/ FOCUS/ MENTAL TOUGHNESS/ ETC SINCE ALL STAR BREAK—— CAVS HAVE YET TO DO THAT——MATCH- SURPASS————— THIS IS WHAT THEY WILL SEE COME PLAYOFFS
It’s true of the Bucks and Celts (and Sixers are desperate and really impressive, same way we were in December / January, but I expect they’ll fall). Knicks have genuinely been awful and they were not good yesterday either, we just sucked in effort and execution. We probably keep a 2 or 3 seed just bc it feels like a race to the bottom, and then our first round success depends on the draw.
But the younger teams like Indiana and Orlando are still struggling with consistency. Indy in particular is eating some bad losses.
BBB—-IS WHAT THE NBA NOW HAS LABELED THE CAVS——“ BIG BROTHER BULLIED “ ———- THE MOVING TRIBUTE TO NICK ———THE KNICKS WITHOUT PRETTY MUCH THEIR ENTIRE 1st UNIT——KNICKS HAVE BEEN PLAYING BAD OF LATE——WE STILL DONT SHOW UP AND COMPETE 😡
So clear we thought they’d just hand us the game. Have to take it.
Third Place
Figured we’d drop to 3 this week. Can get it back.
punked again.. reminds me of the indians playing the yankees in the mid 60s.. it just ain’t gonna happen..
Mobley subbed back in at the 4:40 mark. We scored 2 points the rest of the way. Make it make sense!!!
It’s tough when your best five are not your best five on both ends of the court. Mitchell makes a lot of their problems go away, but I wish they also balled without him…
The closers have been Mitchell Strus and LeVert really. DG is helpful but not “throw it to him every possession in the clutch” helpful, which we knew in 21-22 and is probably why we got Mitchell in the first place!
Great point.
Absolute soft weak ass performance. They just SONNED us
The team is weak & soft. End of story.
They are good, but not a contender.
Have to figure it out. Young teams are either soft / passive or overly reckless.
I was really disappointed in DG and Strus not being super aggressive once Brunson went out. Just more playing with our food. Get up 50-60 3s if you have to
Same as I said last year.If they played soft they’d get their faces kicked in in the playoffs,,,,and they did.and same tonight.You hear Doris Burke say “Cavs don’t seem to be playing with much of a sense of urgency “…….
Team needs to grow up a bit. Visibly relaxed when Brunson went down on offense. DG really does need to come out aggressive from jump and just let it fly.
Credit to the Knicks for making shots too. The last Hart 3 was great but they were hitting a bunch of contested stuff. Defense was overall very good although Knicks did a nice job of hunting the weakest defender
I WOULD TAKE NOMAD and “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ 👍🤣
I’d think about D’Antoni if I was the Cavs.
I’d take Luke Walton at this point.
Cavs coaching possibilities: Becky Hammon, D’Antoni, Coach Bud, coach Buck, Walton
THINK OUR “ BAROMETER “ CONCERN WAS ANSWERED TONIGHT—— AND NOT THE ANSWER WE WANTED— BUT PROBABLY EXPECTED—- NOT GIVING UP ON THE CAVS BUT DONT SEE THEM “ RIGHTING THE SHIP “ BEFORE PLAY-OFF s ——-I GUESS IT IS STILL A “ RHYTHM 🎵 “ THINGS —— SARCASM!!!!
Really disappointing. Just leaking all over. Knicks bench guys are all playoff vets and that mattered a lot. Tons of good possessions from Burks, Bogdan, Precious, etc. where they hit contested slop. Really missed Mitchell and LeVert
Merrill dead even in plus/minus, leading the team. He did a ton of great stuff on offense but yeesh, if we can’t win minutes when he’d shooting well…that’s hard
Great point. Not getting stops. If it was only Merrill’s guy scoring, maybe. But they let DiVincenzo and co. score 107 points. They match up poorly with Thib’s mentality, but they could not lock down Bogdanovic…c’mon.
Yeah you could tell Thibs put Bogdan out there like “just win three possessions”
Strus and Donovan are real dogs but Strus still needs to make shots
everyone else was negative +/-
yup, that’s why I said “leading the team”
Injuries have made this such a janky year. Every player is better, but not enough reps together with new system (that also works). We’re not consistent enough and we’re talented enough to pull enough Ws out of our asses so we haven’t really internalized that every possession / stretch matters.
Re Donovan, was it first “illness” and now “knee”?
Leaving Perk on mute. Perhaps the master plan is to seriously underwhelm when on national broadcast, so that they can surprise in playoffs.
EM and JA had to dominate in paint against that front line. Like set plays up for them. Not really much of an attempt.
Agreed–they got outrebounded by a team starting Hartenstein… but Niang and Wade 0-10 didn’t help.
They were both dogshit. Wade with disgusting ball security and relocated into Strus and Sam a few times in space. Niang was awful on both ends.
Parachute in Brobley I guess. If every player stinks (thought Allen and Mobley and Merrill were OK, Ice good again and Strus good except for shooting) you are gonna lose.
It’s obvious this is a finesse team. I don’t care how tall Allen and Mobley are they get pushed all over the floor. Garland is another finesse player who is turnover prone when you get in his face.
Tough to argue.
Yep if he hits the floor he’s toast,jump ball or turnover.No defense…If he’s not a sniper with the shot , there’s nothing.
Knicks are Cavs daddies its totally official. We are * * soft * *
No Brunson, Randle, Robinson, or Onunuby…and they bully the Cavs. I know we miss DM and LeVert, but this is a referendum on something, right?
Strus’ shooting, inability to generate any rim pressure, overpassing, DG needing to figure out his end of game stuff, shooting under 50% from the line. An absolute “death by a thousand cuts loss”
And you are still a miracle 3 by a bad shooter over an incredible contest from a one possession game.
Yes
JB deserves these boos. Out coached again by Thibs…
Yeah id trust CPJ with the ball late vs DG. Dude has no plan
His plans are Drive Inside and A) have ball stolen B) put up shot that is easily blocked C) try to kick out and have pass intercepted and of course D) dribble out the other side and reset the offense
Garland missed an easy pass to Allen.
Cavs contest with the wrong hand.
Ugh Darius same old same old…
Pretenders
LFG!
Must be crunch time if DG is flopping aimleslly into the lane
The Colin Sexton influence
Garland. What are you doing?
Good challenge,
Finally!
Man Cavs weak side just collapses to help too hard. Like what is Garland gonna do at the basket collapsing from weak side?
These refs are drunk. Last 30 seconds they havent watched a second of play
Feels like Thibs has whatever Niang has on JB on the refs tonight…
Dodged the Bogo bullet there…
Are you effing kidding me??? How do you get that replay wrong??
Hart now has 18 boards… that’s criminal
Hart getting away with a TON
Needs an elbow.
Hw would this ever be a foul on Strus?
Harty got some of his own medicine there.
Lol. They’re not gonna win this challenge.
They won this challenge.
Mobley got hacked repeatedly on that possession…
Harty sets nasty picks.
Darius!
🔥🔥🔥 La flamma
Gotta get sam back on after a blow.
Big finish Allen!
Just like they drew it up!
He’s finally off the floor. Thank you Jesus.
Yes!!!!
Dear JB, I know Georges has those racy pictures of you in the South of France from college, but please for the love of everything holy… take him out of this game and for that matter your rotation indefinitely. We will take a collection here at C:tB to help pay the hush money. Sincerely EG
Seriously,4 point play will be the nail in the coffin for this one.
Watching Darius garland play defense is like watching an nba all star game. He is basically playing against back up point guards and never pressures the ball up the court just drops back and wait for help from behind him.
Hey sometimes he points in the direction he’s about to get blown-by in
Seeking out Niang pretty consistently and JB with zero adjustment.
Merrill giveth, Niang taketh away
JFC Niang. Just total cheeks tonight.
OMG Merrill. How do u not find minutes for this guy!?
Free throws…
When did Cavs stop making free throws… maybe out of practice…
Gotta make these.
Can’t buy a foul going to the basket… Knicks apparently never make contact 😂
The nba way cut down on foul calls after asb.
Dean. You can’t let him shoot that.
Big shot Darius.
Need more of that from DG…
A blind Niang finds a nut.
Is Okoro hurt?
Why Georges? Why?
Niang with a teardrop to nowhere…
This song coming out of the break on Bally is as bad as the Cavs’ transition d.