Eastern Conference Semifinals Live Thread: Pacers @ Cavs, Game 5
2025-05-13Good evening CtB!
The Cavs welcome the Indiana Pacers back to the rainy banks of the Cuyahoga River as the good guys try to find some kind of professional pride and actually put some effort on the defensive end and save their season on the brink. So far, the Pacers are on track to have the best shooting playoff series since the 2014 San Antonio Spurs. The Cavs have shown exactly 1.5 games of Cavalier basketball so far this series. Is the defense going to show up for once? Is Kenny Atkinson going to continue with the same tired plan game after game without a single adjustment? Should I even bother watching the softest, most mentally fragile Cavs team in recent memory? Time for all of these multi-millionaire athletes to try rebounding for once… it doesn’t even have to be a win. The one time the Cavs won the rebounding battle decisively, they won by 22.
Tip off is scheduled for 7:00PM Eastern time and will be broadcasted live on the TNT family of networks, Go Cavs.
đź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘ŤRAOUL
I AM PUTTING MY MONEY 💰/ BEER 🍺 ON THE PACERS —-ANY TAKERS
having watched a lot of games, they sure look better than anyone else at the moment
Congrats Knicks
Thibs like “why should I put the scrubs on?”. Never change, Thibs.
Go Knicks! Bleep the Pacers!
we will see soon enough. my guess is that the Pacers will blitz the Knicks.
I got to watch a lot of games this playoff season. one thing that stood out is that the Cavs and Pacers play at a much faster and more intense level than any of the other teams in the PO’s, some of whom are rather plodding. the Pacers turned out to do it better than the Cavs (and/or had less injuries) so I see them as the favorites to win it all if they stay healthy.
I’d like to see what the Knicks do, but I am inclined to agree.
Pacers just have such a different style. Knicks have a LOT more talent though (but if the Pacers have 4 starters shooting 44% and over from 3 plus Hali at 39%, it’s a moot point)
LOOKS LIKE KNICKS VS PACERS —- NY FANS / MADISON SQUARE WILL BE ROCKIG
Injuries are always a HUGE factor in the playoffs — check out the Warriers and Celtics. as far as the Cavs go, Garland and Mitchell were far from 100% the entire second round and especially game 5. those two never miss layups or foul shots, but in game five they missed about 20 points worth above normal — that is the game right there. on top of that, Garland and Mitchell couldn’t hit a three (that happens to everyone not named Steph) and Mobley was not looking right. about half the top teams every year come up short due to… Read more »
Excuses, excuses… just admit they’re not ready for playoff bball. Not so much Mitchell, but the rest of the team.
prefer basketball to psychobabble
I think you injured your thumb trying to respond. Better luck next time.
remove
ha-ha, this is the closest you can come to removing an entry
worst fans in the world: no one hates the Cavs more than their internet fans
Eh. It’s truly a shared problem with all fanbases. Well, men’s sports anyway. That was something refreshing about the WNBA, much less weird and toxic. The Caitlin Clark phenomenon is changing that though (not blaming her).
I see no hate or lies in my statement.
Lmaoooo Mr. “Get draft capital” “blow it up”
Stone stupid. Just granite brain. Take a nap.
Piss off clown!
remove
Knicks advance due to injury. Wolves, injury. Pacers, injury.
Aaron Gordon hamstring??? Might be 4/4
We’ve got a Nastra-dumbass over here!
when you get anything right LMK boss. until then, eat draft capital or at least learn how the fuck to spell “Nostra-dumbass”, dumb-ass
Hey Mrs. Teal what exactly have you gotten right? And likewise what have I gotten wrong? Seriously go play in traffic. 🤡 🖕
…with draft capital! or “capitol” you illiterate fuck! lmaoooo
OMG a fucking typo. Get bent you fucking loser!
Also Shai had the cringiest foul-baiting play ever, literally just hurled himself sideways across the lane hoping a defender would make contact with him.
As well as Denver played last night, they were on the verge of tail spinning into a Cavs-like final minute collapse, around the 3 to 2-minute mark. Three straight TOs at one point. Even Jokic was having trouble. Russ finally snapped them out of it when he beat the press, and then decided to charge ahead and take the layup to go back up 11 instead of just burning clock.
The Kenny challenge is to figure out what kind of defense works best to disrupt other offenses and feed our offense, which is basically as good as you can get when healthy.
Might involve abandoning rebounding to run like Indy does. Might involve a lot of top-locking and grabbing like OKC.
Right now, the defense is far too passive albeit usually very positionally sound. But it just feels like we aren’t disrupting enough or showing enough variety for a team that has a lot of versatile defenders and can size up on the wing now.
drafting Okoro was obviously a mistake. recall the plan was to draft for defence.
!!! — in any sport (not so much football), the high draft picks should ALWAYS be for TALENT, not need — !!! get the best players and figure out how to use them
ignore this rule at your own risk. for example, the Cavs drafted Dion Waiters (yes, that clown!) because they thought Damian Lillard was too similar to Kyrie Irving. I recall Terry Pluto was on the Lillard bandwagon big time
Arguably Tristan was a mistake too at #4 and it certainly wasn’t a talent pick.
The Kyrie-Tristan-Dion-Bennett lottery pick run makes you realize how good the Koby hit rate is. Even Sexton outperformed for a #8 pick, but every FO has tough misses
(I imagine Minny regrets Jarrett Culver a great deal)
For sure. But my issue is not so much with the player. It is the model.
We have been trying to build around 2 small guards since 2019. Sexton/Garland and Garland/Mitchell.
The only examples I can fild of it working is both Gs being HOFers, with one an excellent defender (Pistons), having one of the greatest centers of all time anchoring the team on both ends (Rockets, who had bigger Gs as well), or both (Lakers/Celtics).
Garland is nowhere near Zeke, Cousy, Goodrich or West. And Mobes/Allen are nowhere near Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon. Nor do we have Dennis Rodman on the wing defending.
DG took some big steps forward this year in the clutch. He was hobbled in the POs, and did not perform well.
Getting rid of Ice does not change our apron/financial status much, if at all. Nor does it solve the underlying two small/2 big issues.
Indy is a bad matchup for us. They played smarter. We had to attack them inside to win. Spida did a good job, but we did not feed JA/EM enough. Turner & Siakam won that battle, or at least olayed them even. Haliburton cancelled Mitchell out, and was better in the clutch. Nembhard and Nesmith are small wings, but we cannot take advantage. Did not see kuch of Hunter going at them. They outplayed DG/Strus for the most part. And our bench, mostly, crapped the bed, especially offensively. And no 3PT shooting at all. Game 2 was possibly the biggest… Read more »
I’m not really bothered by the historical models. For years you couldn’t win without a dominant center. And more teams fail by trying to ape the most recent championship model than leaning into their own talent. We all remember the Nets and Suns’ “big 3”
You take the talent you can get, you work the thesis that presents, and you see how far it can go.
glad someone has some sense around here
the “model” is totally in your head, no one else is aware of it. they were just drafting who they thought were the best guys. here is a basic fact about basketball: nobody prefers a small player to a big player. a player’s height is a big part in any value calculation. the same is true in football: that is why the Browns got Dillon Gabrial late in the third round despite being one of the best QB’s in college. If he had the same results and was 6-3 rather than 5-11, he would have been in the early first… Read more »
I am gonna disagree. Fit and what you have is always, and should be, a factor.
Taking a 4/5 when we have Mobley would be silly. Or a 2 with Mitchell.
#5 was too rich for Okoro, to be sure. But we were never gonna take Haliburton because we took Garland in 2019. Another PG would have been dumb.
Especially since we took Sexton in 2018 (over Bridges & SGA). That is the real mistake.
Altman became fascinated by the Portland model (McCollum & Lillard) because they lucked out and made 1 WCF run once.
Two small guards is literally the dumbest team building model you can have in the NBA. It results in titles almost never.
In “recent” times, the only examples I can think of are the Bad Boy Pistons with Isaiah Thomas & Dumars. 2 HOFers, 1 being a stud defender, and Rodman & company defending behind them. 30 years ago and you cannot defend like that now.
I just don’t think it’s a concern that is addressable. The team’s regular season performance really showed there’s another level possible with the Portland model, and you should explore that for free before paying for change. Every big guard we can get sort of sucks at present and there is a very very mixed record for big guards even in 2018. Like, yeah, SGA and Bridges are great. Kevin Knox isn’t, nor is the guy drafted right after Bridges that I can’t remember at present. Killian Hayes isn’t. Jarrett Culver isn’t. You have to deal with the pieces on the… Read more »
“That is the real mistake “,,,, no doubt.
at the top of the draft there are HUGE differences in talent and you absolutely have to go with talent (if you can figure it out). in basketball, you often have (or hope to) a superstar for a decade or more. the mismatch in position in year one only lasts for one year, and usually you can work it out anyway. for example, do you think the Spurs made a blunder drafting a great center (Tim Duncan) when they already had a great center (David Robinson)? pretty sure they figured it out and did pretty good for the next 10… Read more »
Absolutely agree Raoul. The Cavs could have drafted Dame, evaluated him and Garland and then eventually moved one of them for a high upside player at another spot for a better “fit.” It’s not like they were on a fast track to contention at that moment.
right. they probably already realized Irving was a head case, and could have traded him for someone great
another PG would have looked dumb? if they had drafted Haliburton there would have been no need for the Mitchell trade with Utah, or they could have included DG instead of Markinen and got picks back.
JOKIC IS A STUD / ADMIRE / ENJOY HIS GAME—- THINK OKC GOES FULL THROTTLE AT HOME AND WIN———- UNDERSTAND THE CAVS ARE SOMEWHAT “ HANFCUFFED “ MAKING OFF SEASON MOVES———- 1 MOVE IS TO SAY GOOD RIDDANCE TO ICE ———-/ ICE OVER HALIBURTON =🤮🤮🤮🤬🤬🤬——— KOBY EFFED THAT ONE
so did 10 other teams. from https://www.nba.com/news/2020-nba-draft-results-picks-1-60:
1. Timberwolves draft Anthony Edwards
2. Warriors draft James Wiseman
3. Hornets draft LaMelo Ball
4. Bulls draft Patrick Williams
5. Cavaliers draft Isaac Okoro
6. Hawks draft Onyeka Okongwu
7. Pistons draft Killian Hayes
8. Knicks draft Obi Toppin
9. Wizards draft Deni Avdija
10. Suns draft Jalen Smith
11. Spurs draft Devin Vassell
12. Kings draft Tyrese Haliburton
how many of the top 11 are any good? Anyone want to rerank them for us?
Desmond Bane would have been the better pick there.
nuggets vs OKC.. now that is some worthwhile hoops.. christian braun with 23 pts AND 11 boards (1st rnd #22 pick.. showing exponential pro growth for his 1st 3 yrs).. and cavs have the melted ice cube aka the little engine that couldn’t or wouldn’t (practice).. probably mostly the latter (such a pathetic #5).. personally, i dislike OKC and SGA, so hoping nuggets can cause some heartache for the okies.. i think nuggets can beat the winner of the (L)east.. would be nice for Jokic (hardest working savant in the NBA), and his mates to get another ring..
Really need to work on Tysons development next year. He needs to take Okoro’s minutes, and he may being taking Merrill and/or Ty’s minutes if they bolt.
Minnesota making the conference finals with a rim running 5 and a small backcourt!
BOS with a nice win (tatum-less) over knicks.. cavs should try to process this, although i believe it will be lost on the charmin crowd..
I think whoever comes out of the West is sweeping the East.
Pacers are the obvious favorite
I don’t see them beating OKC or Denver. Maybe they’d have a shot vs Minny.
they were playing the knicks, who were lucky to make it to the second round. the Celts might still win this round.
if the Pacers had got it going a bit earlier, and wound up third in the EC, the Cavs would have had the Heat and Knicks, and gotten to the ECF in eight or nine games.
I think the Knicks and Pacers are evenly matched. I’m not sure that the Cavs would’ve passed the Knicks. Clearly a lot of these teams (other than the Cavs) have another gear in the post season. The Celtics are toast!
Knicks had little chance vs Boston without the injury, and they will have little chance against the Pacers. they were lucky to beat the Pistons
Pistons were better than advertised. Knicks were up 2-1 on Celtics (when Celts had Tatum). Celtics with Tatum are better than anyone in the East. I think the Knicks beat the Pacers, assuming they pass Boston. Then whoever gets to the finals in the East is dead on arrival.
agree that the Knicks would be dead on arrival, but the Pacers would have a good shot.
Help me make sense of this… Cavs, at one point, led by 19 points in 4 of the 5 games of the series. I know they were out-everythinged during the series but the fact that they lost 3 games all at home where they led by 19 points in each game is mind boggling.
Can’t play playoff defense.
maybe having the facts right would help? We didn’t lead by 19 points in Game 1, we came back from 12 down and then let it slip late.
it was the celtics who blew the 19 point home leads.
Game 2 was an offensive failure, Game 5 was a defensive failure.
first of all, games are 48 minutes long.
Cavs’ biggest lead at any point during each game this series:
Ugh those two other games where we lead by over 20 and gave up the lead is brutal. Obviously need better defense next year.
you are thinking of Boston. We never led by over 20 twice
…
Expectations are deadly,best to temper your hopes and be pleasantly surprised if good things happen.
That’s why I want them to be a playoff next year. My expectations will be at the lowest possible point.
I meant to say a play-in team.
Go through next year, give Evan 20 shots a game in a variety of looks and see what happens. Guards need to commit to that and make it second nature.
I’ve seen 4 years of Evan already. Love him and very deserving of everything he’s gotten. But I don’t think he’ll ever be that 25 & 12 guy like the TD’s and KG’s and Gianni’s’ were dreaming of for him. He doesn’t have that natural aggression to go AND stay elite to dominate year in year out.
He’s 19/9 in 30 mpg. On like twelve shots a game.
Feed him and see, don’t just rely on a gut call for a 23 yo player.
4 year sample is enough. This is not hate don’t get me wrong. But if he’s THE GUY, he will demand the ball. He will just say eff that give me the ball get out of the way dominance like the previous guys I said. Even Timmy was like that on their earlier championship runs. They just dominate and lift the team. If Mobley is like that, then he did already… and will be like 2x champs in 5 years. But he’s not. I ain’t saying he’s a bust and all hope is lost on him because that’s not the… Read more »
Kawhi is the better example. He was awesome and the DPOY in year 4 but not a takeover guy, then the Spurs committed to feeding him more FGA and he was second in the MVP voting. But he was never ever a demand the ball guy prior to that. Every player is different in how they come to it. But it’s clear Evan lifts the team and it’s also clear we’ve not tried him as the #1. We should do that so we don’t have to speculate as to his ceiling. So easy to get it wrong with young phenoms.… Read more »
??
I’m inclined to think you’re right,but they should put the focus on him next yr just to test that theory.
majorly disagree. everyone gets more assertive and aggressive as they get older. they don’t get more physically gifted.
anyway, that (and staying healthy) are the best chance for the Cavs winning it.
ICE NEEDS A LEASH TO A DIFFERENT TEAM
MORE REASON FOR………” MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “. ICE PICKED OVER HALIBURTON———I STILL RECALL NATE BEFORE THE DRAFT PROMOTING HALIBURTON—- KA SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO YOU NATE
you should see who was available when Ben Mathurin and Jarace Walker were picked
Or they could’ve had Desmond Bane. Ice is a bust. He doesn’t seem to have it mentally either. He needs to be good/great at one thing.
I enjoyed the season, other than the two stinkers (Game 4 vs. Pacers and the game at OKC). Some amazing moments happened, but it’s frustrating to go out in the same round. Agree the second apron situation forces patience with this core (which most here would say is a good thing anyway). But there are still changes that can be made: (1) Evan HAS to be the focus of the offense. If he again averages merely 12 or so FGA per game, KA’s not doing his job. The team’s ceiling will not go up unless/until Evan takes on higher usage… Read more »
the lack of stinkers is why I like our chances at growing up even more next year.
learning to always beat who you are supposed to beat is a skill
Some great points Windmill!
They need to pay the Dream to work with Allen.
I’d love that! And, it’s a bit more likely to be of interest to him (the Dream), lol
Tyson needs a bigger role next year, and Okoro needs a quicker leash.
GOOD ARTICLE MR STEAL 👍🙏—— NO “ NEEDLE MOVERS “ IN THE 2nd ROUND—— EMONI / NYQUIL / TRAVERES / DIOP ARE ANY OF THEM READY -/——- I WILL TAKE NYQUIL OVER WADE ( OFFENSE / HEALTH/ CAN REBOUND— PLAY “ D” ——— DIOP OVER TT ( EVEN WITHOUT SEEING HIM PLAY ) TT ) HAVE SAID ALL YEAR) CAN JOIN BRAD / AC ——- 👋👋👋 To ICE ——- SOME OF THESE IDEAS ARE COMING FROM “ FRUSTRATING AFTERNOON MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ 🤪🤬
Don’t throw away these picks. There is oft decent value late on. Seniors with high floors & INT guys.
A playable backup big, a big guard who is PO playable, Jerome, and more wing depth (defense and scoring).
The Cavs have 2-second rounders in this draft. Maybe they can package them to move up in the second round?
ESPNs mock:
49. Cleveland Cavaliers (via Milwaukee)
Michael Ruzic, PF/C, Joventut (ACB)
…
A good breakdown: https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/s/p5omNIb8G5
Hollinger has something similar on The Athletic.
excellent info. brief summary: the Cavs will not be making any major trade
They can’t
Yup. Die is cast with this crew. Good and bad.
NY should be the one seed next year (or maybe the Magic or Pacers) there isn’t a talent gap between us and those teams although the Knick starting five is awesome too.
The good news (for now) is that there is no version of peak Lebron in the east. Giannis I guess, but that team is in shambles. For the people comparing this current Cavs team to the Horford era Hawks, there’s one big difference. The Hawks ran in to a Lebron buzzsaw every year. That doesn’t really exist currently. There is reasonable hope that continuity and the development of Evan Mobley will be enough to get them to the top.
the good news is that we’ll likely be the 1 seed next year too and get a warm-up series. that’s a pretty good start on the top
They could, but they will have to shed salary. It is gonna be difficult.
Mitchell & Mobley are off the table. I love JA and his salary is pretty reasonable.
DG gets a pass for me due to the toe, but I still think if we shake things up, this is the way to go. Get a big PG who can run an offense and defend a bit.
Hunter, Strus, Okoro, & Wade are all fine for what they are. If a bit overpriced.
Bring back Merrill & Jerome. Hope Tyson is a rotational guy.
AS ALWAYS THE CTB BROS SHOW UP / SHOW OUT THE ENTIRE SEASON——— NO OFF SEASON TRADES ——KEEPING ALL YOU GUYS AROUND——YOU MAKE THE SEASON ENJOYABLE/ EDUCATIONAL/ BEARABLE—— THANK s GUYS YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!……………. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ FOR ALL OF YOU!!!👍🍺👍🍺