Live Thread: Cavs @ Warriors, NBA Finals Game 2
2016-06-05Flash poll: Is the big NBA game tonight bigger than the game you considered the biggest game prior to this big game?
— Cavs Win Title Now (@IGOHARDNOW) June 5, 2016
That’s right, True Believers. The biggest Cavs game of the season is here, and it’s even bigger than the last biggest game. Many consider tonight’s win a “must” if the Cavs have a shot at winning the whole shebang. According to Oddshark, NBA teams are 16-257 all-time after trailing 0-2 in a best-of-seven series. Only two of 56 squads have prevailed since 2009. So unless the Cavs want to climb out of a really big hole , they need to play much better tonight (though I’m wearing my “Rise Up!” 2007 Playoffs T-Shirt to prove it is possible). There has been a mountain of content dedicated to what the Cavs did wrong, and what Warriors did right in Game 1, but to me, Game 1 was all about the Cavs’ playing poorly, more than it was about the Warriors playing fantastically.
Here are things Cleveland must do better.
-    The Cavs need to roll! Someone must consistently put LeBron as the roll man, and he must roll, and not just pivot into a high post. Below, LeBron ignores the wide open space by the basket in order to settle for a mismatch. He must slip the pick! He or TT has a layup or JR has a three if he does. This is a part of an overall trend of moving on offense. Or as Ben Werth said to me in an email, “Why can’t LeBron just roll? For the love of my departing sanity. What a frickin waste of talent. Always settling for some dumb mismatch. This team has the talent but is stupid. Someone has to go to the rim on every play. Please..”
2. Channing Frye must play and the Cavs must shoot open shots. Here, Delly passes up a wide open triple to repost LeBron. If Delly doesn’t have confidence in his shot, I don’t know if I want to see him playing. The Cavs best playoff lineup has been:LeBron, Frye, JR, Shump, and Delly. That lineup barely played Thursday. It must play tonight, and the boys must let fly. LeBron gets doubled, pitches to Delly, who instead of being a ready shooter, reposts to LeBron despite there being at least 10 feet between he and Iguodala. Result? 14-foot clanker.
3. Consider staying big (and I don’t mean LeBron at the four).
https://twitter.com/Jon_Roser/status/738855153260847104
4. Play Channing Frye!
5. Everone must close out shooters, and must get to Livingston’s body more quickly.
If they do these they’ll be just fine.
I guess, but the Thunder had them on the carpet. Might want to save this gibberish for your own boards.
Someone using my handle to say that. I am the one who has been posted below and for last few days.
Warriors coughed it up 20 times and the Cavs only scored 77. The team that was posting the best offensive rating in the playoffs only scored 77. This is the terror of the Warriors. I’d watch them in the regular season, Curry would blow, and Thompson would score 40. Or they’d just shut down opponents. In last year’s finals Iguodala won Finals MVP. If you had to award it today you could give it to Barbosa for Christsstake. They are the best team in nba history – and they are playing better now than they have at any time I’ve… Read more »
Yep. Not sure how you could state it better. They win the first two games going away even if Curry and Klay had rode the bench the whole games.
They can be all time this, all-time that but I don’t really care. That’s not the main thing for me. For me it is that we play with our potential win or lose no matter who the opponent is. Golden State isn’t even forcing us to do some of errors we did so far. Their defense is elite, but it isn’t forcing us to go isolation at any time. Their offense is incredible but never forced us to go half a$$ effort on our D. It is on the Cavs. If the reality is that we still lose despite playing… Read more »
Huh? Yawn.. I miss Cols he’s more of a challenge..
you know what? f this!!! i blame the refs. yeah, I said it. We cannot possible win when the refs give GS 10 pts at home. That 10 pts becomes 30 in no time. The refs screwed us today and this is being lost.
Wow – anyone who goes on another team’s board to talk trash is the real loser here. You must have an awesome life. haha.
Thanks Cleveland. I hate all sports now. Thanks for ruining one of the few things I love
We need to Release the Delly
Can we all buy into a starting lineup of Delly-Shump-RJ-James-Love to start Game 3?
Don’t even get why people are high on Shump this playoffs, he’s been awful. Love Delly but his shooting has been horrid as well. He doesn’t have the offensive chops to start vs GS at this point. I wish the Cavs worked a little more on Moz in the run up to the playoffs. He was the key to that 2-1 start last year IMO. He kept the GSW off balance but right now he is a shell of that guy. My gosh he had 4 blocks in that game 3 win last year and score 16 and 17 in… Read more »
I’m fine subbing JR for Shump. I just put him in there because JR seems out of sorts as well. We need some sort of a spark.
The thunder gave the blue print on how to defend the Warriors. You have to take the challenge individually and live with the results because if you over help too much they will beat you with their passing easily like they have done with the Cavs so far.
I wonder if the Cavs will keep this same roster or if there’s going to be some changes for next season
Defense is not really the issue. The Cavs horrid offense is.
Really? Lol
It’s both. Cavs haven’t been nearly good enough on either side of the ball to win.
https://twitter.com/Khanoisseur/status/739654671766167552
I see it this way, last year the Warriors played the first 3 games of the finals a bit nervous and the Cavs took advantage and took a 2-1 lead in the series and I remember that I told a friend if the Warriors begin to hit all the wide open shots that they are getting of their ball movement the Cavs are going to get roasted and it happened exactly that way. And it has carried to this year because the Warriors know that if they are patient they will get the shot they want cause the Cavs tend… Read more »
Major props to OKC for,their effort vs the Warrios. Maybe we should just watch replays of those games to see what it takes.
It’s clear the Cavs MO was shutting down 2 guys and it has backfired. Typically holding Curry and Thompson to 20 and 35 would be cause for jubilation.
Wow it’s pretty rotten in here. The Warriors are pretty good if no one has realized it yet. Why are we trying to trade Kyrie? You remember how well he played all playoffs until now right? Do you think some dude like CJ was going to flip a 30 point loss into a win?
Are they talking about CJ McCollum(spell?)?? Wth?
I saw that comment earlier. Insanity IMO.
I would do it. I’m positive Portland wouldn’t, though.
Best hope is GS gets complacent, overly confident and hands us couple of games in cleveland. And hope for cavs to start the series new at 2-2 ……
Kyrie, you’re making such an embarrassment of your mentor (Kobe) with the trash you putting there. Stop playing street ball for goodness sakes. Play merciless killer that we saw in San Antonio etc we know you’re capable off.
https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/739648471003594752
The dark clouds descend
Be-Lieve-Land, We Chant. With hope.
Game 3, Clash of Kings.
Pounded Chests, We Scream
The Universe, Indifferent
The Absurd Rules All
Vs Eastern conference opponents the Cavs can’t get away with letting certain guys shoot wide open 3’s or long jumpers but against the Warriors they have to defend every single player.
Yes.
This is the first time LeBron has lost when trailing 0-1 in a playoff series since the 2007 Finals.
I hope that many of the things we tried that didn’t succeed will go to re-evaluation after this. Can’t really fathom why do we keep catering, catching up, adjusting the whole time with what GS puts in on the court. I’m a broken record on this but when will they impose their will against them continuously? Or why the hell can’t they? Why can’t they breakout of intimidation? Of looking someone who’s always confused?
Warriors are so much more intelligent than the Cavs. That’s where they became one of the greatest all-time, in their intelligence.
Yeah, have to agree. They make the game so much easier than the cavs do by playing smarter.
And their commitment to excellence too IMO. They won a championship last year but evidently they wanted more and they are showing it. They became a lot better.
Not so much intelligence as the Warriors have had the same makeup for a few years now. The Cavs have not. The Warriors are really good btw. The Cavs have had a knack for facing legendary teams in the playoffs.
We also got blown out by Toronto in Toronto.
I’m calling it here. The Cavs are a completely different team in Game 3 and blow the Warriors out of the building.
I don’t think so and anyways the Cavs will not win 4 out of 5 against them so it’s just a matter of in how many games the Warriors will win it IMO.
I picked Dubs in 5, but after this game, it might end up a sweep…the Cavs better bring something to game 3, because I’m sure GS is going to try to put their boot on the Cavs’ throat…
Maybe I’ll get yelled at for not appreciating making the finals like this, but I’d rather have upstarts trying to figure shit out than all-stars who can’t and get embarrassed in the finals…
This is crushing
So after two days off to study film and make adjustments, what exactly did the Cavs try to do differently tonight?
I didn’t see much of anything different offensively. I will probably go back and watch some game film though.
They can woodshed Xs and Os all they want. They don’t have the personnel to defend this team at the level required.
Sure but they are never going to win scoring 77 points. They also still make a ton of defensive errors and mistakes. They don’t communicate well on defense and they make boneheaded mistakes, both of which are correctable. The effort factor is something that is on Lue with regards to defense.
Exactly.
While I agree to some extent I’d rather question the heart of our defenders than their lack of skill.
Lose by more?
I did see switching to get James and Kev on Thompson.
I also saw (maybe it’s just me) more ISO ball.
And James was a lot worse. Maybe he was having lapses to show the rest of his team a lesson in leadership or something?
They became worse?
Lower starter minutes by getting blown out. That’s about it.
Well I still think the cavs have the talent to win a championship. However, they will not win playing the offensive style they play now, nor without becoming a team that doesn’t make so many mistakes defensively. This comes down to coaching defensive principles and the players letting agreeing to play completely differently offensively. It also requires creativity in coming up,with offensive sets. James will need to consent playing entirely differently on offense. Hopefully our personnel have a high enough basketball iq to actually learn a complex read and react motion offense.
Man, this really really sucks. Wow.
I think we all would have agreed that a lot would have to go wrong in the Finals for EVERYTHING to be back on the table this offseason. Well, start setting the table.
Everything is definitely on the table. Sweeping through the East is not enough for this team.
This is just going to feed the lousy narrative that LeBron needs help. Come on. When will people realize that it’s LeBrons own ego that worsens this team.
And I don’t even care if LeBron doesn’t win one for Cleveland. He doesn’t deserve it if he is going to decide he doesn’t need teammates
I’m not sure about that.
And to be fair, if LeBron scored 100% of our points for a Warriors sweep, I’d be the happiest person on the planet. And I’d name my first ten kids all variations of “LeBron James”
I’m not sure about either of your scenarios, but the reality is this team IS talented enough to win a title. Why do they look so confused defensively, so stagnant offensively, and so surprised that the other team is outworking them? Watch how quickly the W’s players sling passes, and compare to how long any one Cavs player pounds the rock before making a decision. The Cavs lack offensive imagination and willingness to move without the ball… man, my high school coach would be losing his mind.
Well it is either terrible coaching or the lack of coaching, and/or the players being uncoachable. Really it is as simple those two scenarios.
For the Cavs to have a chance, Delly needs to play more than Kyrie. Cavs need to go with last year’s final rotation, and K-Love and Kyrie are used to just spell Delly and TT for some rest.
Good luck next game in cleveland. Nothing to add to from my game I comments.
Somebody likes to take part in some schadenfreude, hah.
Did you even need to,post that? A not so subtle way to be smug.
Have said this for yrs but Kyrie is not the one……can’t stand his play….ballhog dribbling show is more fit for globetrotters, and his D is huge liability. And his O misses the mark in key games.
I’ve never been a fan of his game. I saw someone post the other day that he was Stephon Marbury with better media relations. I hadn’t ever thought of that, but I can see it…
I should say that the part of his game that I *am* a fan of, and which is really valuable, is his three point shooting. But he really doesn’t do enough of it, frankly.
So…he’s like our version of Damon Jones?
In your best version of Kyrie perspective?
Not saying I disagree. I really really loved me some Damon Jones.
I am too. He is a gunner. He’s got green light in here and scoring is his best asset. I don’t mind him shooting a lot as long as it is taken off a wise play.
Your point guard is your floor general on offense and defense. He is neither of those.
They said Steph was too small, too fragile, no D until he’s up 2-0 on us. And I can bet that Kyrie has the same work ethic as Steph. Kyrie will be there
The only positive takeaway from this game was that Delly got his shot going a little and Shumpert’s hair.
Can we still sign Ray Allen? Because I really think that would make the difference…
Bwahhaha, where is cols when you need him?
I hope this team is as embarrassed as I am.
Yeah. Me too.
I wonder, did the near-constant losing of KI’s time in Cleveland (The SKYenga years) and Kev’s time in Minnesota numb their embarrassment for losing? RJ knows how important and rare it is to get into the NBA Finals. Some of the other Cavs don’t seem to get the message.
Warriors are probably best team of all time. It was going to take a near perfect effort to beat them. This is not such an effort. 0-7 against Golden State since game three of last year’s finals. Not a fluke either. We are their version of Atlanta.
Thought the same thing as I watched this–so this is what helplessness feels like… watching a team methodically run you off the court as you childishly cling to what got you this far, wondering why it doesn’t work anymore. You can see the Cavs have NO open threes in this series, and defensively, they cannot decide who to cover. The fundamentals of basketball died for the Cavs tonight. Who drew up this battle plan?
Golden state rubbing it in.
Wouldn’t u? Heck ya i would if i were them. Nothing wrong w. That.
Silver linings: – We are limiting the Curry/Thompson attack – We were up by a decent margin for a few minutes tonight – We did set the record for made 3’s in a game just a few weeks ago – We have shown potential to, you know, be a serviceable NBA team – We have home court next – A lot of the plays we lost tonight were “effort” plays. Change that, change the series? (what I’m saying, it’s correctable) – RJ is a basketball god – Green still might get suspended a game – Our Death Lineup did decent… Read more »
Also:
– We only need to win one in California to win the series (after we sweep them at home)
– Tony Brothers shouldn’t (?) coach another game this series?
#NeverQuit
Exactly. Or, in other words, It ain’t over till it’s over
Hard to take much away from a game in which were down by 32 at one point, especially since the way the warriors destroyed us seems repeatable, unless the cavs of course stop playing like idiots on offense and defense.
They destroyed one of the worst version of the Cavs this year’s playoffs. I’ll give them their credit but I just want to see the Cavs in their best against them.
Did anyone else see that “Sausage Party” preview? It was as surreally bad as the Cavs’ play this game.
I’d rather watch Sausage Party than this BS…
We have played completely different at home. It’s not over. But this really sucks
We ain’t beating that team 4 of 5 period. This series is over. But i b watching as miracle on ice can hppen on court too.
Game starts 0-0 next. We can come back from a 0-2 deficit. No problem.
It’s still Believeland!
Lue post game conf: ” we were fine. We juat missed some easy shots. Gotta make those and if we did, we be right there in the game”. We be better next game.
Just like he said we be better this game after game 1.
Coach Blatt is in Turkey having a celebratory drink…. Quite frankly i never like Blatt but what the heck happened to our D? Isn’t Lue. a defense specialist under Blatt?
Yeah, those comments don’t inspire much confidence that he has any clue about how this team should play on offense, do they?
Kevin Pelton @kpelton
Per @bball_ref, highest combined margin through first two Finals games is +42. Warriors currently +42
Just gotta say it. When it comes to basketball mind: Blatt>Lue.
But I guess when the roster has the intelligence of middle schoolers, you need someone with swag to “galvanize” you.
Regarding Love: The Cleveland Clinic website says, “For some people, an airplane flight shortly after a concussion can make symptoms worse.”
I think I’ll be avoiding any and all sports coverage aside from Cavs the blog tomorrow. Ughhhh.
Absolutely
Let’s get it to 20!
I hope KI/LBJ’s takeaway from this game is not “I should do more ISO ball to show everyone how awesome I am to single-handedly win this series”
Wonder if these guys are tired of getting boatraced by this team yet?
I think our only goal was to deny Curry the MVP again.
I didn’t see that foul. Was there a foul by Shump?
What makes the Warriors so great is that almost all of their players are decent or great defenders but are also decent or great scorers.
The Cavs don’t stand a chance and will probably get swept.
Get out of here with that garbage.
I mean, I know we’re all ticked off and disappointed, but I don’t expect the cavs to have a give up attitude, so I won’t have one either.
I need to adopt your attitude.
Yes. Same here Nate. Regardless of the outcome, I know I can only be an armchair coach for this team, but I ain’t quitting. No quitting ever.
For Cavs good karma can everyone plead their support in Nate’s post??
A lot of people said we were lucky to have KI injured for last year’s finals. We had better ball movement, defense, hustle…until we got gassed.
Are the Cavs coaching staff just blind to this? I simply don’t understand.
Our only hope,given how terrible we play vs GS is that OKC beats them next year in the West.
What a waste of a spot in the finals….should have given it to a team that ‘wants’ to be here…and gives it all..
Seriously? Another illegal screen? F*ck you Tony Brothers & Crew
The Cavs have two leaders in LeBron and Lue that don’t know the best version of the team. It’s extremely frustrating that the most talented Cleveland team in my lifetime can not even figure itself out
Yep my thoughts exactly. They just play dumb. How it is not obvious to them I don’t know. They have the talent to compete and take this series to 7 games, but they just don’t play the right way. It is as simple as that.
I think being a Cleveland fan means we must all have masochistic tendencies, cause this is painful to watch, yet I am still watching this train wreck.
So…I hear the Cleveland Browns are supposed to be good this year!
I remember RJ saying that they must cherish the moment and give all out because you’ll never know when will you have a chance at it again. Clearly a thought from his career since the New Jersey days. And he’s shown it not just tonight but the entire season and playoffs. Hats off to him, respect. Now I’m wondering if we might lose him next year, man. He showed more heart than the big 3 combined tonight..
What is up with Frye playing a TOTAL of 11 minutes in the first two games?
Cavs aren’t even a fraction of what the Warriors are.
We wouldn’t have beaten the thunder either. Their defense is almost as good as the warriors. If we played iso against them we still would have gotten roasted.
They would have had a much better chance against the Thunder, though. They iso as much or more than the Cavs do.
But play way better defense. It is possible they could have choked against us, but we play such poor team defense their iso would likely trump our iso.
OKC is their own worst enemy, and you can’t always count on that when you play them.
Well, the Cavs are done here, so am I.
It’s 3 am. I’m out. Thanks for nothing Cavs
Livingston in Moz’s grill. Then Moz called for moving screen: the height of irony.
Moving screen? Isn’t that the Green-speciality?
Warriors started Iguodala in place of Bogut from 3 last year finals because Bogut couldn’t handle Mozgov. You can see that in 4th quarter again.
Meant to say after game 3 last year finals.
Hey, Champ, go for Curry’s RIGHT shoulder next time…
Golden State is such a great team though, give them credit. They are really 10 deep, have amazing chemistry, everyone can pass, rarely make dumb mistakes, always compete.
Yep, they are no fluke. People who have been saying that all year look pretty dumb.
They are more than ten deep. They have great talent at the end of their bench ready to move up if contracts aren’t settled for rotation players.
Yeah and when you don’t show up, you’re never going to beat them.
Human nature in me will have this certain degree of dislike in my teams opposition, but they have my respect. But when it comes down to it I try not to look much on the outside, I want to focus on what my team is doing and tonight is just so crushing…
Why the F is Curry in there?
At least JFJ put him on his ***.
Let’s bring it to 20 now!
Talent wise the warriors might be a bit better. As a team they are light years better because of their constant movement on offense and their ability to utilize that movement to create easy looks. On defense they are light years better because they play great team defense. They are incredibly well coached. If the cavs allowed itself to be coached and changed the way they play on offense and learned basic team defensive principles we would be competing right now.
Would love to see what we could get for Kyrie this summer.
Bucher suggests Celtics pick and Isaiah Thomas. At least awhile ago
IT can’t defend, either, but he tries harder…
Hah. You think you can beat the warriors with Isaiah Thomas?
Well, they *did* beat them with IT…unless you are being sarcastic.
Celtics won’t give up their pick for Kyrie. Cavs won’t pull that trigger because it isn’t “win now” enough.
Maybe Dion Waiters? (just kidding…)
The Cavs are getting a reality check of were they need to be if they want to have a chance against this team NEXT YEAR and what makes it worse it that they haven’t need Curry.
Playing in the NBA finals. 10 minutes left in the 4th. The coach throws in the “we’ve lost this game” lineup.
It’s over dude if you haven’t noticed…. The Cavs have no flow.
I totally understand it’s over. Just sad that it’s the NBA finals. With a team that’s only lost twice before getting to the Finals. That finished First in the East. That has LeBron James.
And 10 minutes left, we’ve already lost.