Podcast Episode 143: Until We Meet Again, Uncle Drew
2017-08-22https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-143-until-we-meet-again-uncle-drew
Happy Trails, Kyrie. With the news of Mr. Irving’s trade to the Celtics we sounded the conch and Tom Pestak, Ben Werth, Nate Smith, and EvilGenius assembled in the podcast booth to break it all down. We all gave our knee jerk reactions to the trade and gave our yays or nays to Isaiah Thomas, Jay Crowder, (up the) Ante Zizic, and the Nets’ 2018 draft pick. We also discussed the enigma that is Kyrie Irving and whether this trade makes the Cavs better in the long term and short term. Playing the imp’s advocate was Tom Pestak who held out hope that Isaiah Thomas and Jay Crowder could improve the Cavs. The rest of us were more… skeptical.
Other topics included: are the Cavs’ still a finals team? What are LeBron’s plans for the Summer of 2018? (Including some inside dirt on the Lakers situation). What is going to happen with the rest of the roster? Can Boston beat the Cavs in the playoffs, (or are they even the East’s second best team anymore)? Are the Cavs’ still a finals team? We take on all this and more as we wish a fond farewell to Uncle Drew.
As always, listen above, on Soundcloud, iTunes, or Google Play.
Rozier plus memphis pick in 2018 sounds right.
Ainge supposedly ‘drawing a line in the sand’…*may* throw in a 2nd rounder, but no more. Of course it could all be bluster. I’m pretty freaking sure, though, that the Cavs won’t squeeze him for Brown or Tatum. Ainge already thinks those are franchise players.
If Ainge undersold Thomas’s injury, I’d be fine telling him to pound sand. Unfortunately, I don’t know what information was exchanged prior to agreeing to the trade.
Future firsts are generally considered between current current year first and second rounders in terms of value. The protections on the memphis pick are such that it isn’t totally unprotected till like five years down the road.
That’ll work.
I think it is extremely unlikely we get Tatum, Brown, or the Lakers pick.
Rozier, Smart is aiming way too low IMO.
Depends on severity of the hip issue. 3-6 months & everything is fine = Smart or Rozier or late 1st. Possibility he doesn’t play this year = Tatum or Brown or Lakers pick.
I disagree. With the hip needing surgery, IT is as good as useless for the year. He’s gotta jump in the middle of the year, no training camp just rehab…. can’t trust he’ll be the same guy. That’s why you go for Brown, Tatum, or picks to acquire a Bledsoe caliber talent.
Hip issues linger even if he is cleared to play, so you will probably never see last year version of Isaiah.
Just saw NBC Sports report that says Cavs asking for Brown or Tatum.
NBC report is based on Woj. Woj thinks it’ll end up being another pick or so.
I’ll be honest. If Celtics don’t sweeten the pot, I think about walking and taking the Milwaukee deal of they’d flip Delly for shump
I’ve been on that train. Brogdon and Middleton both better 3 point shooters. Delly coming back is just icing on the cake!!!
Delly is fun and scrappy. But you dont want him at ten mill a year maybe at 4mill a year they dont need high priced backups its almost the same as keeping Shumpert.
Irving on the Bucks makes them the 2nd best team in the East. All that length to hide his D.
I agree. Irving to Bucks scares me more than Irving to Celts.
Cavs can probably get Lakers pick that Celtics own. I think Cavs should take that and flip for a player of their choice and fit while keeping Nets pick for post Lebron era. If you demand another player from Celtics, you are limiting to 5-6 players but the pick gives you wider range of options especially closer to trade deadline. Some teams will already be tanking by end of december.
Good point.
Thanks.
That would be nice. Might be possible if Altman plays hardball and is willing to back it up.
What happens if it is not between 2-5? Does that mean the Lakers keep it? That would be my huge concern. A big gamble if that is how it works.
You got that right, any conditions on a pick make it worth less.
It is not all or nothing, “The future first-round pick that Boston will receive will be the Los Angeles Lakers’ first-round pick in the 2018 NBA Draft, provided that such pick is No. 2, No. 3, No. 4, or No. 5 in the 2018 NBA Draft. If the Lakers’ 2018 first-round pick is No. 1 or is No. 6 or later, the Sixers will instead convey to the Celtics the rights to the more favorable of the Sixers’ own 2019 first-round pick or the Sacramento Kings’ 2019 first-round pick, provided that the more favorable pick is not the No. 1… Read more »
Odd tweet with everything going on.
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/901962112792125440
I saw this yesterday. Odd indeed.
What about swapping shumpert for Smart to sweeten the deal?
Nope. Salaries too far off. Shump 10 mil, Smart is like 5.
If we don’t get this thread north of 2000 comments, I’m blaming Nate. With Cols still allowed to post we’d be getting close already, and its not really like any of us are saying anything different anyways.
I didn’t ban Cols.
Well you hurt his feelings clearly
Wasn’t me.
Right. Cols would probably have 500, most of which would have his favorite: X <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Y
500, almost all of which would be exactly the same post.
The New Orlean Pelicans just lost Solomon Hill, and could be a team interested in Shump. The problem is they don’t have anything I would want outside of Davis.
No problem…back out of Celtics trade, and send KI and Shump for Davis. That’s that.
You can’t think of anyone else on NOP you may be interested in? Gimme a B!
Isn’t Asik still there…?
Well, Wednesday also acts like a deadline for other teams. They know the deal on the table. If I were the Cavs, drag it out & see if you get a better offer.
This is a great point. And offers a nice conspiracy theory — maybe Cavs started hearing some chatter after the Celtics deal went public about other interesting deals, and they are using thie IT situation to give them an option out.
I mean the cavs can still make a deal even if they void the Celtics trade.
Say the Celtics give the Cavs another first round pick, and Phoenix is unwilling to give up Bledsoe, what other teams should the Cavs engage on a pick for a point guard?
Would you try the Brooklyn pick for Ben Simmons?
Ricky Rubio, Lou Williams, Mike Conley, maybe Schroder… I may consider Lin.
For the Brooklyn pick?
Not necessarily the Brooklyn pick. I’m just throwing out names of PGs who I think could help the Cavs at this point and who could be traded for.
The Brooklyn pick is a wild card and although nice, it’s not a guaranteed #1-#3. So another team may not be willing to part with a top 20 PG for it.
And Lou Williams? No way I’d sacrifice any pick for him. He’s really not needed for our team.
I’d only give the Brooklyn pick for Conley.
I don’t know if the Pacers would work with us, but the Cavs 2018 pick for Corey Joseph?
I’d probably do that.
The Cavs 2018 pick for D’Angelo Russell?
No way the Nets do that.
I might consider the Ben Simmons for the Brooklyn pick, but probably not the other two.
Unless IT is out for the year, I don’t see PG as a priority. Dumping Shump and landing an elite defender wh can guard 1-2 & maybe 3 is a priority. Also another mobile big. Or a legit star with the Brk pick (no Boogie no Melo).
No more picks. Brown or Tatum, or Ainge can burn with the ship. Play hardball and screw the Celtics by finding another deal.
They won’t get Tatum and I doubt they get Brown. The most they get is probably another 1st.
Your theory that picks are not a good thing has to go. You do realize that most players on a team come from the draft, don’t you? How do you think James and Irving wound up on the Cavs in the first place? Rumor has it that as of Sunday afternoon, Boston is offering second round picks, and Cleveland is holding out for a first. And they will be very happy to get it.
If they have another pick from a lottery bound team ok. I don’t want anything from Memphis or anything that has protections or that is for 3 years from now. With those stipulations a pick would be worth it.
Also James and Irving came from teams with the worst or second worst records in the league. In other words, a much higher chance of getting a top 3 pick than say a team with the 14th spot in the lottery. The key there is the lottery. They were both number 1s. You usually have zero chances to get guys like that outside of the top 10, let alone top 5. Not all first round picks have the same value. Not even close. It is fallacy to think they do. So when you say first round, a 20th pick (outside… Read more »
We knew that. Repeat this three times: 1. Picks are good. 2. High picks are better than low picks. 3. More picks are better than fewer or no picks. That should help.
1 and 2 I have already stated multiple times. As to 3, huh really? Is that true? I was under the impression that nothing WAS better than something. In all seriousness though, in my opinion players are better than picks this year. There is no guarantee of getting the guys you want in a trade by offering picks anymore than there offering top young players. And if you do keep picks it is more of a gamble than getting top rookies now. That is not debatable because of the lottery system obviously. They don’t have to do this deal. They… Read more »
Indians dominated the Royals. They didn’t score any runs at all in this series. 3 consecutive shut outs since 1956.
Lol
https://twitter.com/MichaelRyanRuiz/status/901843726980579329
Or the tied for the greatest clown along with skippity do dah bailey.
He’s wearing Riles’ shirt…
https://twitter.com/calvinpryts8/status/901856310077120513
Well that is good, because I don’t really want Boogie. Can’t beat the warriors with him.
Feeling’s likely mutual…
The Other Jason is punching up trade scenarios of Boogie for Bron.
Yes of course a Miami Heat beat writer wants to change the current system of buyouts, when Wade is rumored to go tin Cleveland.
“Ira Winderman of The Sun-Sentinel is the latest writer to support changes to the system, using Dwyane Wade as an example. Wade seems likely to negotiate a buyout with the Bulls at some point this season, then is expected to join former Heat teammate LeBron James in Cleveland.”
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/08/community-shootaround-buyout-rules.html?fv-home=true&post-id=72956
They are a bit ridiculous. But the Bulls are a victim of their own idiocy. They sign wade to a two year $48 million dollar deal the year before they decide to blow it up.
I don’t know if this is overpaying or not, but would Rozier, Shump, a 1st and 2nd round pick work for Bledsoe?
Suns might do that, it would likely depend on where the picks are. Bledsoe doesn’t fit in with their timeline, and I don’t think he’s in their future plans.
Could work. But what pick? Can’t be Brooklyn pick.
No our own pick.
My thought is the 2019 memphis pick
Rumor has it the Celtics are willing to throw in a second-round pick to “sweeten the deal.” Rumor has it the Cavs want another first, if not another player.
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/901851821202866176
I could see the Celtics throwing in two 2nd rounders to complete the deal. Or a 2nd rounder and Rozier.
Yummy, paint chips!
Coconut flavored are the best!
Won’t be at any cost is what I like about that. Sounds like they aren’t going to give into Ainge.
What do people think of Rozier. Is he any good? Seems athletic, but mostly just a mid-tier prospect and not really a PG.
His shooting splits are abysmal. I doubt he’s better than Quinn Cook.
OK. Yeah. I was just sanity checking. Lots of buzz that adding him could resolve the issue with IT injury. But he is like a worse, but younger Shump.
Rozier is a young player with good athleticism. He plays hard. Stays in his lane. Makes fewer dumb plays than Shump on D. Poor shooter.
I see him exactly as you describe. Not a fan.
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2017/0827/r249715_1280x720_16-9.png&cquality=80
BTW, part of the adjustment with the Celts should include taking Shump.
That’s great in theory. But Boston is capped out. They don’t have any salaries to send back to make that work – at least not salaries they want to part with.
I mean along with a player. Can any of the trade machine aficionados figure out a combo of Shump, KF, …, that would work for the player(s) we want to extract from the Celts?
Shump makes $10 million. We’d have to take back a shade under $8 for it to work. Plus, we have 15 guaranteed contracts. I think we cannot take 2 back for 1 out. Though I am not certain on that.
I am in the “void trade” camp if IT injury serious and we don’t get another major chip. Arch has it right: if IT is out, we need enough ammo to go get Bledsoe (or some comparable PG) and still keep Boston Clam Crowder and the Brooklyn pick.
Throw in calderon and Shump for Delly and I’m in.
Wait can’t trade calderon.
You don’t need to trade someone if you waive them…./taps forehead
Shump and Felder for Delly
Hide ya kids, hide ya wife
IF AINGE DOESN’T BUDGE THIS TRADE BETTER BE VOIDED BY THE CAVS OR CTB WILL BE ON A RAMPAGE !!!
Get your official CtB pitchfork and torch while they last.
http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/7/0/143470_v2.jpg
Or in the infamous paraphrased words of Howard Beale (played by Peter Finch) in one of my favorite all time movies, Network, “We will be made as hell and not going to take it anymore…” if the deal stands as is. If Boston doesn’t sweeten the pot, I would then take Brogdon, Middleton and the Buck’s pick. The only qualifier would be if the Cavs were confident on getting a top talent with the Celtics pick, but as discussed, the general consensus is they will keep it anyway. I’ll be ready with the torch and pitchfork too.
Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble!!!!!
LeBron loves small point guards:
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/900849760231280640
I hate Mayweather, and I’m glad I didn’t waste money on the publicity stunt. I still cannot believe how much that clown gets. Props to him for taking advantage of the media, but he’s still an awful human being.
https://twitter.com/tribjazz/status/901674802838069248
And Boston fans need at least three tries to get Hayward’s name right.
This is a dynamic game of Hip Chicken!
Oftentimes, high-level athletes are able to continue to perform at a somewhat compromised level with a labral tear. Usually these tears do not need to be fixed urgently. It is safe, and often preferable, to wait to address a hip problem surgically (e.g., during the off-season) when people can dedicate themselves to taking a break and getting well.
http://www.wosm.com/blog/the-story-behind-hip-labral-tears-in-athletes/
So the Celtics and IT blew it by not having surgery three months ago.
2012 Story, Alex Rodriguez: Details About His Hip Injury and Surgery: Alex Rodriguez will miss four to six months recovering from surgery to treat a painful left hip condition, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman announced yesterday at baseball’s Winter Meetings. A-Rod will have surgery next month by Dr. Bryan Kelly.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1432199-alex-rodriguez-details-about-his-hip-injury-and-surgery.amp.html
FO is convinced that the KING will be gone next year that’s why they’re about to back out with the trade. With kyrie Cavs still have a proven scorer with Kevin. Cavs can still attract other FA next year
Not sure about that?!?!? I think Kyrie has made up in his mind that he’s done in Cleveland, whether or not LeBron is here. Cavs have the opportunity to make another run at a championship. They need to do it. They may never have that opportunity again.
??? Kyrie wants out with or without LeBron. That is why we are in this situation. If he was willing to stay and be the guy in Cleveland, of course they wouldn’t trade him.
My prediction is that the Celtics add Rozier and a 2nd rounder, and Cavs accept.
Sounds plausible…the question then is, is Rozier better than Rose? They both peg the suckometer.
I don’t think he’d stay. The Cavs will flip him and picks for a better PG like Bledsoe IMO.
If the Cavs give up Kyrie, Shump, and there own 2018 first, for Crowder, Bledsoe, Zizik, Brooklyns 2018 pick, and a cripple, it’s worth it.
Yeah, with you there…IT can get the surgery and sit out all year if that happens…
Why do we need IT if we get Bledsoe? If the goal is to flip stuff for Bledsoe, let Boston keep IT and have them pump up the non-IT assets in the trade.
Boston really wants KI, and will not want IT back. This means the Cavs can rework the deal and more or less get IT for free. If he can play by the end of the season, that is a bonus. So, my question is, what combination of picks and/or players does Boston have to cough up to replace a healthy IT and make the trade work?
If uninjured, IT would have taken the pressure off LeBron to create offence. How this would fly in the finals is up for debate. Injured, IT adds nothing. The Cavs have all the power, because that can take KI back and deal him to one of the other deals that came up. If the trade is undone, Boston is a disaster. That is why they will pay big. KA needs to figure out how much he can gauge Boston for, and also be in touch with the other potential trading partners. Does the ongoing fiasco make KI worth more or… Read more »
Make that gouge, not gauge. The point is, the Cavs can expect as much as IT would have been worth in a trade if healthy. Things might get really ugly if the Cavs rescind the trade, and Boston refuses to take IT back, and puts it in the commissioner’s lap to decide. This could even wind up in court.
I think Brown or Rozier + pick would easily get it done. Question is, would they do it?
If they add Crowder and Zizik sure. Rather have Crowder than Brown.
If they sent Brown, Celtic fanboys would be rioting in the streets. Rozier, maybe, but he’s a nonentity. Celtics supposedly taking a hard line, but if Thomas realistically requires surgery, then he’s basically out for the season, and he may as well not count as a traded asset other than his salary. It’s not as if he were likely of being signed after this season anyway, so *if* he requires surgery, he’ll probably never suit up as a Cav.
Battle of the Dans!
Gilbert may need to send a strongly worded email in comic sans to Ainge…
It’s the only way!
I’m not in the business of paying Boston fanbois any mind LOL.
If they take a hard line, I’d rescind. They can re-visit if they choose or take the Milwaukee deal. Yeah, their pick sucks, but maybe they sweeten the deal just a bit to close the deal.
There pick may be just outside the lottery, but they may be able to move that for a player like Bledsoe. Then you’d expect be getting Brogdon, Middleton, and Bledsoe, which is a decent haul. It sounds like the Cavs will end up accepting the Celtics deal anyways.
I heard 2nd-hand from the Cavs’ doctors that its 50/50 Isaiah ever plays again.
IF there’s any truth to this hearsay, then they better cough up Brown.
Yeah, if true, that is a problem…
Yikes!!!
https://twitter.com/tribjazz/status/901591254298791936
Rozier sucks, but make it happen. He can play some crappy PG until IT is back. As a show of good faith, I will even send Iman Shumpert to the Celtics.
I believe he’s from Ohio and played for Shaker Heights. Yeah not really moving the needle for me. Rather have a 1st Rd. pick.
No thanks. Dude shot something like 35% from the field as a rookie scoring around 7ppg. I would rather back out and force Ainge’s hand than that concession.
If the Cavs know that Boston won’t have any all-star PG this year they can basically punch their ticket to the finals, with or without Kyrie.
Sounds like surgery could be 6 months recovery. Lol….
I think the crux is that Boston and his doctors pushed for rest rehab, Boston because of his trade value, and his docs due to his contract year. Cavs docs probably recommended surgery.
Agree. This is what I think it is too.
Well maybe a tanking sun’s team will be okay w/ IT out till December & give up Bledsoe for IT. Folder, too, of course
If that doesn’t happen in a few days, it isn’t happening. But LBJ worked out with Bledsoe a few weeks ago and he’s still on Phoenix.
Didn’t the Suns have Thomas before and it ended ugly?
I think the trade is dead (unless a switch of #1 picks one year will do the trick for the Cavs).
Dear lord. I’m ready for this to be finished. Too much in flux for me.
I think they probably work something out, at least cording to some of the local beats. I think Bledsoe is in play, and they probably want to find out the assets necessary to grab him.
Too much bad blood for both teams with the players on the block. Pretty certain it will happen, just some details may change.
Boston won’t be willing to give up anything more of significance. Much of the fan base love IT and hated giving up the guy that carried them to the playoffs the last couple of years – along with a high #1 – for a guy that couldn’t carry the Cavs when LBJ was out of the game. Fans liked Crowder’s intensity too, but would trade him to get Kyrie. Boston won’t go max with IT, but nobody is going to offer him more than Boston will. Boston wants to beat the Cavs in the playoffs (in a couple of years,… Read more »
I have no idea what Ainge will or won’t do, and I doubt anyone else does either. If he doesn’t budge, my bet is the trade will go through. It’s as much in Gilbert’s hands as Ainge’s.
You guys are goofy. There is zero chance the trade goes through if IT cannot play for a year or maybe ever. You think the Cavs are giving KI to their main competitor for a marginal starter and a pick?
I would say that they can go ahead and deal with the fallout of taking IT back and trying to find a better deal elsewhere. Doubt IT will be hyped to play after this and I doubt Boston gets a better deal. I would love to drop this trade just to see that scenario play out.
Boston has to keep KI. The Cavs will cash in.
Meanwhile at Progressive…
https://twitter.com/MLBastian/status/901614333393821697
Saw that.
I saw the Jason Lloyd tweets, and I’m surprised he is taking something that is obviously from a Boston source and reporting it as fact.
The latest medical update from the Celtics on Thomas that I can find in the Globe is from late July, almost a month before the trade. Had they seen Thomas since then? Did they know what his condition was at the time they made the trade?
Jason, inquiring minds want to know!
As soon as Ainge opened his mouth and said IT’s injury was a part of the calculus to move him, he hoisted on his petard.
Straight outta Amico Hoops: It is unclear what else the Cavs may be seeking from the Celtics, but many expect general manager Koby Altman to ask for either Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum or the other first-round pick Boston has at their disposal (they own the Lakers’ 2018 first-pick).
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/901591366656020481
I prefer Tatum, but I’d take another 1st, and you know the rest…
Them giving Brown or Tatum is a pipe dream.
If I were Altman then I would tell Ainge, the trade going through is a pipe dream. Let IT go back to the celtics. It just simply is not worth getting a pick. We need another player that can play this year and has potential for the future. It is just that simple. IT not being able to contribute for the majority of the season is not worth the current trade.
Earth to JOHN B: Picks are good. That is how the Cavs got LeBron and Kyrie.
I think they would give up Brown…. they won’t give up Tatum IMO. Tatum has an NBA ready offensive game and was coached by Coach K on defense. Brown had a surprisingly good shooting year for a rookie on limited minutes, but he’s an average shooter at best right now.
I’d be surpised…no idea how highly the FO there values Brown, but I know they like him a lot. Celtic fanboys, of course, think he’s the next Jordan.
He’s not a good shooter, and has limited off the dribble moves. Youth is on his side and he’s had a good start, but basically he’s Shumpert without the boneheaded plays.
Right, but I think the Celtics are really high on him, and that’s what really matters. I like him, too…doubt he’s a superstar in the making, but I think he can be a top three player on a good team down the line.
I’m just addressing the idea that that they wouldn’t part with him. I think they would. Tatum on the other hand, is truly untouchable. Signing Heyward makes Brown somewhat expendable IMO.
The big 3 for the Celtics are Tatum, Kyrie, and Heyward. I think everyone else, they’d move.
Jason Lloyd tweeting that Celtics held nothing back about Thomas, and nothing should have been a surprise to Cavs. If that’s true (and it’s Ainge, so who knows), Cavs really should have no gripes. It’s always possible Thomas will be out longer than Celtics believed, though. Lucky the Cavs picked up MVP PG Derrick Rose.
Yeah I don’t trust Danny Ainge, he’s a scammer. Cavs should get more assets or walk.
I like Danny. I like him so much I’m willing to give him another asset in Iman Shumpert.
You may get a threatening message from Shump for suggesting this.
I’ll get his number and give him a call.
The LeBron-Kyrie reunion tour is going to be awesome!
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/361594116509-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/901481774966071297
Well it will be 2019 out of top 8 when it gets used no doubt. They aren’t bad enough yet.
EG posted the “Return To Sender Tag.” I think Elvis should weigh in too on my sentiments. The “B” side of his classic single is appropriate too.
http://streamd.hitparade.ch/cdimages/elvis_presley-return_to_sender_s_3.jpg
I’m curious how current the medical info was that the Celtics gave the Cavs during the trade negotiations. From what I read in the Boston media right before the trade, it sounded like it had been a while since the Celtics had seen him.
Stale info would strengthen the Cavs’ case for more compensation and make it harder for Ainge to say no.
Bill Simmons will miss Jaylen Brown, but will absolutely fall in love with Iman Shumpert.
And Kay Felder…
Woj story is up
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901580902328872960
Celtics can keep IT and Zizic and they send Brown over. They can have Shump to make the numbers work. Everyone’s happy…
Who is our PG then?
Ladies and gentlemen, at 5-9 (snort!), out of Oakland University, Kay Felder!
MVP Derrick Rose.
LBJ
They better demand something significant, not just a Memphis pick that will no doubt fall into the 17-18 range next year.
AGREE WITH GORDON—WE HAVE THE LEVERAGE—AINGE CAN’T BACK OUT OF THIS TRADE UNLESS HE LETS HIS MO STAND IN THE WAY—–DEMAND BROWN OR TATUM OR THE INJURED ( PERSECUTED BY HIS FANS BURNING HIS JERSEYS ) I.T. IS RETURNING HOME
Woj reporting that Cavs will seek compensation. Nice to see Ainge’s tail in the fire for a change.
CAVS HAVE UNTIL THURS TO MAKE A DECISION ON THE TRADE——AM SURE CTB WILL BE ” LIT UP ” WITH IDEAS / SUGGESTIONS
About 1000 comments below, someone stated that all the Cavs GM’s have been pretty good, other than Grant picking Bennett. I am going to disagree about Grant. His first pick was KI. That is a no brainer and anyone would have done it. His second pick was TT. That was a reach and has turned out pretty good. But everyone was projecting Jonas V, who would have been almost as good. What did we get for the high second round pick? Don’t recall ANYONE coming out of the second round under Grant. The next year we had #4 and about… Read more »
So a lot of people here are saying we’d need an additional pick from Boston if IT’s hip is trash.
I would want more than a pick. I’d want Brown/Tatum, or a few picks. Whether or not IT is good in the playoffs, a healthy IT is still a big piece during the regular season. He helps immediately. Without him, we’re essentially trading KI for Crowder next year. That’s unacceptable IMO, unless we can turn the extra pick(s) that Boston has to add to sweeten the pot, to someone for a guy like Bledsoe that helps this year.
We have all of the leverage here.
Absolutely! The Cavs traded for a player who was top five and ten in some categories, and got one who cannot play. And Boston is NOT in a position where they can say “OK, trade is off” — that would be a disaster for them. So Altman needs to play hardball. This means things might drag on. I think I read the deadline for canceling the trade is Tuesday, or maybe Thursday, so there should be some resolution.
I’ll be absolutely ecstatic if we can come away with Bledsoe, Crowder, and the BKN pick.
Yep. I’d say Altman/ Gilbert did a hell of a job if that happened.
Me too!
Any reason to think this might happen?
Wondering the same thing. I agree that would be a great haul for Kyrie if true. But I have absolutely no clue what Phoenix wants. They have a ton of super young players. Do they really want draft picks?
I have no clue how the idea that draft picks are not valuable has become so widespread in this blog. Of course they want draft picks. With a ton of super young players and a bunch of good draft picks, you can build a long running dynasty. You might have noticed how having no draft picks worked for the Cavs in LeBron 1 and LeBron 2 eras.
Let’s think this through. If this was a minor thing, a month or two delay, then the Cavs likely don’t react this way. That means, at best, we think he’ll miss most or all of the season. And/or we found some damage we think may limit ITs performance going forward. Short term & IT likely to go by end of Feb = future first/minor prospect or we just eat it. Likely to miss all year or structural issue = we void without major upgrade = Tatum, Brown, or Lakers pick + maybe a minor piece.
Yeah I am guessing from the way it sounds and what few hints the Celtics have dropped it might be far more serious, like most of the season.
Yeah, if Danny wants to back out, let him. He can play Smart at point until some time in March (maybe) when his bitter 5’8″ PG can play. And they can lose in the first or second round of the playoffs. Fine by me.
The old adage is true: never try to deal with Ainge, he’s going to screw you.
Get real. Short term and the Cavs have a shot at the Warriors.
I’m glad we have a really experienced GM in place right now to navigate this very difficult and potentially franchise altering deal.
Wow… Danny Ainge really screwed up. Started believing in his own hype I guess lol.
JoeyB would have loved a really experienced GM in place right now, like Danny Ainge.
https://twitter.com/JohnHillbery/status/901488402750689281
https://twitter.com/Steve_R_Walker/status/901484615436816385
https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/901487791279935491
Not sure what kind of player Nerlens thinks he is:
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901497409070608384
That is nuts. Noel may be sorely disappointed this offseason.
Next offseason that is.
He thinks he’s a max player.
Dan Gilbert like:
https://twitter.com/FearTheSword/status/901493546133356545
The better of Boston/memphis +rozier to suns for bledsoe?
That’s what I propose. I’d even consider just including Rozier, then send him our Cavs (not Nets) pick to Suns for Bledsoe.
Of course plus Shump.
Of course.
IT is a MUCH better player than Beldsoe. The Suns stink & IT has been the best player on Celtics teams that have made 3 straight trips to the playoffs. There is a reason one is a 2 time all start & one is not. Let’s not even mention that 53 IT dropped on the Wiz in the playoffs.
Personally, I wouldn’t say much better, but slightly better for sure.
Also… age makes a difference, Bledsoe just entering his prime. IT in his prime, and I’m worried about a decline in athleticism with him… he’s finished once that goes.
Hip injuries for guys with small frames are supposed to be bad too aren’t they. Isiah Thomas only lasted til 32, not that he had this injury.
No he’s not and you could still keep IT.
I’d take Boedsoe all day.
I’ll believe it when I see it, but getting Bledsoe somehow instead of IT would be an amazing trade.
Boston future draft picks. 2018 Los Angeles Lakers (If pick falls between spots 2-5) Boston Celtics’ own pick 2019 Philadelphia 76ers or Sacramento Kings (If the Lakers’ 2018 pick falls outside 2-5, Boston will instead have a choice between Philadelphia’s top-1 protected pick or Sacramento’s top-1 protected pick in 2019) Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8) Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14) Boston Celtics’ own pick 2020 Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6) Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14) Boston Celtics’ own… Read more »
Cavs should request Rozier and Memphis pick. Then send that with Shump to Suns for Bledsoe.
Is that the Memphis pick that used to be ours? If the protections are off we could trade them the Brooklyn pick for Gasol & then they suck & we take their pick.
No. Posting more above.
Never mind. Different pick. We should know today how it shakes out. Best case is we get some more compensation and the hip issue is not career threatening/altering & he is full go come PO time
Sounds like Thomas isn’t even able to run yet…yeah, Danny, I’ll be having the Memphis pick, or GFY.
If the trade gets voided, I can’t wait for Cols’ inevitable post(s) about how IT sucks in the playoffs and Crowder is garbage, and Irving is better than both of them.
It sounds like if anything Celtics will be sending something else over, though. Probably an additional draft pick.
http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/002/186/601/095e6e5f1f1d2fcdd28b4170c6516a12_crop_exact.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top
That is what the cavs should have as an ultimatum. I am not holding my breath that Ainge does it because stubbornness is his MO. If Ainge disagrees then you move on.
The trade being rescinded would be 100 times worse for Boston than for Cleveland. In fact, there would be zero trouble for Cleveland, because the only person traded demanded a trade.
Yep. I agree. Ainge likely will have serious problems with IT if he comes back and no doubt get a worse deal. Still it is Ainge, so he may try to play hardball. Cavs just need to stay firm.
I’m on board Brogdon, Middleton, Delly and pick for Kyrie and SHump. Brogdon’s a better shooter than I thought… and figures to actually be durable, which IT won’t be and DRose hasn’t been.
Phone call happening today according to Woj
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/901477945008685057
NATE IS THAT AN ACCCURATE POST FROM KY—–OVERSEAS HERE I COME—–WOULDN’T HIS CONTRACT WITH THE CAVS NOT ALLOW THAT
It’s dated to 2011 from the strike year.
It’s from 2011
If this is the deal then the Cavs should be permitted to fracture Irvings hip, before going to Boston.
Hahahaha
AND YES STAY MUM AND MAKE AINGE / CELTS SQUIRM —-IT IS CALLED LEVERAGE !!