NBA Draft Rumor Roundup
2012-06-19
From Kurt Helin over at Pro Basketball Talk:
Teams have fallen for Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal and, while he has only worked out for the top four teams in the draft that will be enough. He is not falling past the Cavaliers at No. 4,reports Hoopsworld’s Alex Kennedy (who provides a lot of the rumors on this page), but frankly he may not get that far. Washington at No. 3 likes him also.
You’re going to want to click on the link, because Helin’s linked to a lot of relevant stuff, but I also love me some Brad Beal. I was gchatting about the draft with sometimes-Blog-contributor Tom Pestak yesterday, and one of the things that came up was whether or not the Cavs should trade down. I like that rumored four/24-for-six/11 Blazers swap (if it’s even really a thing; it’s not like any of these reports have been confirmed) because I like the idea of a painfully talent-deficient Cavs team picking up what should be, if they do their homework, two future starters. But if Beal is there at four, I think I’d rather the Cavs take him and hope they can land a rotation player with the 24th pick.
But that’s my underinformed take. The fun thing about the draft is there’s no real right or wrong answers until three years afterward; you kind of forget what you were saying at the time. Well, unless you write things on the internet and then people can dredge up old quotes and make you look dumb. (I’ve said too much.)
So: Beal at four? Barnes and PJ3 at six and 11? Offer Jordan partial ownership of Dan Gilbert’s new casino for the number two? Bueller?
Reach and wingspan are a lot more important measurable than how high the top of your head is off the ground. I rarely see plays made from the neck up. Regardless, measurable also pale in comparison to game tape and production, and beal plays more athletically and does more for his team than barnes, at a year younger. I want someone who can rebound and defend as well as score. People think barnes will do an adequate, maybe above average job at this, but Beal is Elite at rebounding and a good defender. I also don’t want someone who loves… Read more »
Plus, SG and SF are the two Wing Position, and he’s throwing the 6’11” Power Forward his Whole Career Dirk into the wing catagory as well, so clearly any 3 players on the team as long as 2 of them aren’t centers can be smudged around to fit the “Gaurd – Wing -Big” argument. Like Irving, Beal, Verajoa for that matter. Seriously DJW, beal’s standing reach is 1.5″ shorter than barnes, and you can never have too many players that can get the ball to the rim. Something beal does better than barnes, and something not that easy to learn… Read more »
It seems like DJW has left the building. I thought he made some good points and it was an intelligent, spirited debate. I had to laugh at this quote, “you need and Elite GUARD, WING, BIG,” though. In a five-man sport, if you have elite players at any three of the five spots, I think you’re a championship contender. If 60% of your team is elite level, you’ll be ok.
I think too many people here are relying on cliches to predict the Cavs future. Look…fears of not enough offense…too much defense…undersized backcourt…it DOESNT MATTER.
The Cavs are a rebuilding team. They need to pick players they believe in…that can grow together…and improve in the next 3 years.
You CANNOT start evaluating these guys until a few years down the road. If you made judgment calls right away, you’d waive Andrew Bynum…cut undersized Jason Terry…or dump poor-shooting Jason Kidd.
We just need good team players at this point. I like all three of these wing prospects. Let’ see who falls.
People put waay too much stock in height and combine numbers. You know what the finals teams have in common? Dynamic, efficent wings who can pass and help in multiple ways. Wade, Ginobili, and Harden can all pass, grab some rebounds and handle the ball well (few turnovers for their usage). I think Beal can fill that role pretty well, as long as his shot really does come around. MKG is a complex player. He’s compared to Iggy because of his athleticism, rebounding, steals and defense, but his passing and handle don’t really support that. I think he’s a rich… Read more »
Finally somebody with a little sense
Beal is barely undersized, his wingspan covers it. However, I’d still take MKG. We’ll be a lotto team next year too, IMO, and scorers can be found. I’d rather have a guy that’s won at every level, projects out to be a good NBA player even though stats have a hard time measuring defense, his specialty, is a tireless leader, can defend 1s, 2s, and 3s, and is by all accounts a tireless worker who should be able to improve his game over time. He’s got a mind for the game, and it can’t be denied. I don’t care about… Read more »
How bout the Lakers? Who was there all important PG in the PG, wing big model? How bout OKC this year? Ibaka and Perkins are defensive oriented bigs. So basically your formula that is absolutely crucial in winning a championship has resulted in roughly 50% of the titles the past decade or so. Doesn’t seem to me like you have to have it. The fact that Beal played with two smaller guards only helps his rebounding case. He played SF instead of SG so he usually had a bigger guy on him, but stell out rebounded every other SG in… Read more »
Oh all this and the fact that he will only be 18 when drafted and has said himself that he is still growing
I can guarantee you it won’t. He is averaged sized at worst.
Why should I look at all the playoff teams. Weren’t you the one who stated that you don’t want to be the Hawks? You want to be a championship team. Well looking at the final four teams remaining, the main SG’s are James Harden (6’5.25″), Ray Allen (6’5″), Manu Ginobili (6’6″), and Dwyane Wade (6’4.75″). And where are you getting that Beal is not a good athlete? His rebounding and block numbers are easily best out of this draft group. Second place wasn’t even close. Comparing to Wade (elite athlete by your words) coming out of college: Beal has less… Read more »
This conversation has gotten to pointless. We will see in 3 years what happens. After 1 year we will see if the size of Beal matters.
Thank for being so generous. I will take Barnes’ 3+ inches too. Looking at the Mavs i’d say they had top players at the 3 positions because Dirk plays a perimeter game like a wing. The Heat with Wade and Shaq were a bit different because that whole finals was a joke. But I guess picking 1 team in comparison to all the others makes you right. Good job. Looking at this years Finals though over 6 years ago, I will take my chances with the Wing, Big, PG. Also, Florida ran a 3 guard line-up. The best defender was… Read more »
BEAL IS 6’4.75”. He is a quarter inch from being the same size or bigger than half the guys you listed. Not to mention his 6’8″ wingspan and 39″ vertical (better than Barnes btw). HIS SIZE IS NOT AN ISSUE AT ALL.
@DJW I can guarantee that the opposing teams’ best wing defender was on Beal just like they did Barnes so Barnes’ 44% doesn’t hold more weight than Beal’s 44.5%. Why would a team put their best wing defender on a 5’8″ Walker or 6’2″ Boynton over the 6’5″ Beal especially when Beal shoots just as well if not better than those two. I was unaware on the memo that all NBA teams got that said you have to have guard, wing, big to win a championship. Might want to tell Dallas that. Or the Heat in ’06. Or the dozens… Read more »
Aaron, Beal is undersized man. He is not as undersized as people feared, but at under 6-5 he is undersized. Its a fact. Just google: “Is Bradley Beal Undersized?” Thats where it comes from. Look at ALL the play-off teams. Thats where it comes from. These are some of the top NBA sg’s: Wade (elite athlete), kobe (6-6), manu(6-6), harden (6-5), JJ (6-7), eric gordon(6-3), ray allen (6-5). Eric Gordon is the best comparison in terms of height. He is ball dominant, which Beal can not be because of matching up next to Kyrie, and Gordon is also a better… Read more »
Oooh, another one. Well Aaron: Did I specifically call Barnes an efficient scorer? Or are you just talking now, putting words in my mouth? Barnes strugged at times. Do I need to put it up on a billboard? According to you guys Barnes should fall out of the lottery. He was the #1 option and struggled at times. Should I put it in caps? He was faced with the best defender and double teams every game. HE STRUGGLED AT TIMES. Why do scouts then never question his ability as a scorer? Why do they concur that he is an elite… Read more »
@DJW
Just looked at the final four teams that were remaining in my last comment. Nobody had anybody with significant height advantage over KI/Beal. But just keep saying they are undersized.
KYRIE AND BEAL BACKCOURT WOULD NOT BE UNDERSIZED. Come on people. They are 6’3″ and almost 6’5″ with 6’4″ and 6’8″ wingspans, respectively. That is perfectly fine. Its not ideal or perfect, but ITS NOT UNDERSIZED. Its probably average if not above average. Seriously this line of thinking needs to disappear. It is just plain out wrong. Look at the two current teams in the finals. Their PG and SG that play most of the minutes are no taller than 6’5″ and they seemed to be just fine. Look at the Celtics. Rondo and Allen. 6’1″ and 6’5″. Spurs, Parker… Read more »
LOL. It is an undersized backcourt. I repeat: UNDERSIZED BACKCOURT. Evolution of the NBA? Before you comment again, check the size of the backcourts of the play-off teams for the last 3 years then, and ignore 2 decades of basketball. You know what you come up with? Its not an UNDERSIZED BACKCOURT. You are right, it is whatever I say in that respect. The cavs already struggle on the defensive side of the ball. Drafting beal would increase our defense from last year…… because it was really bad. Doesn’t change the fact that as a 6-4 SG he will have… Read more »
DJW, You are basing people’s athleticism of one day at the combine. Those tests aren’t always true of what is indicative on the court. And all your raving about people not being athletic and what not, and yet you want to draft Rivers? Come on, man. Where are you getting that Beal isn’t as athletic as people expected. Because of less than 4 seconds of our lives? Give me what people have shown on the court and on tape over a one time test that people have weeks to build up and train for. Beal is NOT undersized. Is Ray… Read more »
If the Cavs pick up Beal, don’t forget that Alonzo Gee can be rotated in to help defend top guards that might take advantage of a small backcourt, which would admittedly be a legit concern. I love what Barnes brings to the table for the Cavs specifically — he would be a great fit on the team, I think — but my main concern about him is the fact he posted ridiculous combine numbers, indicating great athleticism, yet he never really seemed to use that athleticism to dominate less athletic opponents in college. His block and rebounding rates are pretty… Read more »
to paraphrase “And despite the size of the players, they are undersized” Whatever you say. Yes, beal is slightly undersized, but he never had a problem gaurding big guys in college, and he gets nearly 7 boards a game. Kyrie is most certainly not undersized. You can say they aren’t as big as you’d like, go ahead, but they would not pose a below average tandem on defense because of their size. I want to argue that he is a good defender and plays bigger than his size because he was a good defender in college and grabbed 7 boards… Read more »
Matt, you numbers dont take into account player roles. I can shoot 60% when I am scoring on fast breaks and lay-ups/dunks. Look at MKG numbers on jumpshots and outside of 8 feet. Its a huge wake-up call. Kobe shoots a low percentage as well right? When you are the focal point of the offense and faces every night with the other teams best defender and double-teams your percentages will suffer. These are facts. Yes, Barnes never made it to a Final Four. Plently of great NBA players never have either. I don’t know about his leadership skills because I… Read more »
As for the Varajao stuff, I don’t want them to trade him, I was just gauging what direction people think the team is going. I think he’s better than any big they could draft, save Davis. As for the MKG, Beal, Barnes debate, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Everyone has been RAVING about Beal in workouts, and he’s seriously in play at 2,3, and 4. The one way the NBA has changed more than any other is that smaller players can now be successful if they are quick, since the hand check and new defensive rules went into… Read more »
Alex, please stop making comparisons to players at other positions. MKG is a good player. My arguement is that NBA Championship teams do not take energy/defensive players in the top 5. Guys like him are neccessary to win, but you can get players to fit that role much later in the draft. Defensive specialist are guys you can even pick up in FA without dedicating much money at all. I agree, MKG is a good player! My point is, WE should not take him this high. His scoring potential is very limited. I don’t assume he will develop a jump… Read more »
The MKG-Barnes debate has taken on a life of it’s own. I think I was in a debate about it two days ago…lol. I like the fact that we can have intelligent conversations about it on this blog. The ESPN forums usually have a bunch of trolls running around.
Just an FYI, Chad Ford’s latest mock has the Cavs taking Beal, then Quincy Miller at #24. Beal works for me. Miller? Not so sure on that one.
I think Barnes has a great chance to score more points than MKG, and he’ll probably score around the same number of points as beal, but he’ll never be as efficient as either. We don’t need another Antawn on our team, and inefficient volume scorer that doesn’t do anything else well. Both the other guys were more efficient on offense as freshmen as barnes was as a sophomore, and do other things at an elite level (rebounding and defense, kind of important). And while barnes did shoot more, its not like he was the only option on the UNC offense,… Read more »
DJW, yes, when trying to sell himself as the 2nd best pick in the draft, he did say he wanted to be able to dribble better and be a combo gaurd, I don’t think he would have a problem sliding next to kyrie at the 2 though if he falls to 4. Regardless, if he can back up kyrie his rookie year even better. Also, at 6’4.75″ with shoes is about an inch below average for a SG, but the guy plays big with good defense and has a standing reach 1.5 inches shorter than the SF Barnes. Alongside Kyrie,… Read more »
Would you consider Tyson Chandler to be an energy/defensive player? He was Dallas’ #2 guy. I know big men stereotypically have a larger impact defensively than perimeter defenders, but there are a significant number of scouts that say he could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. If he develops a decent outside shot, he could definitely be the team’s second best player- he won’t be their #2 option on offense (I don’t think he’ll ever be that good), but that’s doesn’t mean he can’t be their second best overall player. And I don’t see anyone saying… Read more »
Yea, I try to forget about that, lol. Him showing up to the combine like it was a job interview says something about maturity and taking things very seriously, but he did bite the bullet on that one.
DJW, Only time will tell. 3 seasons later and we’ll see where things are at.
Remember that Barnes really made a mess choosing his college, making it into a show of sorts. I’m not going to make the obvious comparison here, but it’s probably a little concerning that he show boated so much and failed to live up to the expectations. Expectations he set for himself. I hope he’s matured over the past couple years and that he plays great ball in the NBA.
Alex: Gerald Wallace is a better athlete with a better body than MKG. The reason Wallace goes 25 is because you do not draft energy/defensive players at 4. Guys like that are pieces to a championship team, but not part of the foundation. No team with Gerald Walace as their #2 guy wins a championship. The closest is the Detroit Pistons, and T. Prince was their #3 guy at best. I do not want the Cavs to be the Atlanta Hawks, a play-off team every year that has no chance of winning a championship. Look at the history and team… Read more »
Kj: Unfortunately, we have to put a lot of stock into postseason play for almost all of the freshmen. They only have one season on their resume (not including high school, which I’m sure is also considered), a decent portion of which is against cupcakes like Marist and Radford. If you look at their performances against decent teams, postseason play could make up almost half of those games. But as long as you incorporate a variety of other sources: workouts, interviews, combine, cupcake and international games, etc, it helps paint a more accurate picture. DJW: Check out the 2001 Draft.… Read more »
Good news for MKG: Hollinger’s draft rater LOVES him. And if there’s something Hollinger’s system struggles to account for, it’s defense (Hollinger admits it himself.) So even with a poor account of what he can do defensively, he still projects to be a good pro. In other news, Barnes AND Beal did not grade out well.
I’m not saying it’s the be-all end-all, but it is another piece of information to add to the puzzle.
Sorry about the typos, lol. Im just trying to say when you look at the 3 players we are discussing, all things considered, Barnes is the best fit. He also is the player whose weak areas are the easiest to work on. Every year we see super athletic players go to the next level and struggle to adjust. Its like we forget how athletic the NBA players already are. Playing style aside, Barnes is the better athlete than MKG anyway. The only thing MKG does better at this stage than Barnes is defend. Defense is not our biggest need. I… Read more »
MKG relies on heart and athleticism. Well, most people in the NBA are athletic? Where does is stand out when his greatest asset is matched by 50% of the other wings at the NBA level hm? You DO NOT grab energy/defensive guys in the top 5 (Gerald Wallace, etc). You grab those guys later because they are glorified role players. We need perimiter scoring. MKG’s combine numbers show he will have some difficulty finishing over NBA level big men. If you actually watch his game tape, you will see Kentucky has so many scoring threats that MKG either had open… Read more »
Accidentally sent comment early:
All of that was in exchange for half a season of Ramon Sessions. A bad half of a season from Ramon Sessions.
In other news, Ramon Sessions is going to opt out of his contract with the Lakers. If he leaves, that will mean we picked up the 24th pick this year, and the right to swap our Miami pick with a Lakers pick that very well could have a regression year.
Anyone left still hate that trade?
Again, people putting too much weight on these players’ performance on the tourney. Yes, we get that that’s the only time most of you have seen these players actually play but guess what? The Cavs have been watching guys all year! Sometimes two years!
Oh and on topic for god’s sake please don’t let us settle for Barnes. There are dozens of Harrison Barnes out there every year. When a team has a top 5 pick, we should get someone dynamic and special. We must do what we can to get MKG.
If Beal and MKG are gone, I’d imagine the Cavs would take Barnes. If not Barnes, then Lamb, Drummond or trade down.
I haven’t heard a peep about trade talks for Varejao. If they did, you’re putting in a rookie at center. Unless you did Andy for Okafor and the 10th pick. It seems unlikely.
I don’t think Sonny Weems brings much, if anything to the table. Jamal Crawford at this point in his career is almost strictly a chucker, so I’ll be pretty disappointed if we pick him up.I think we should be very careful in trading Varejao. He’s our biggest asset and we should only trade him for top, young talent.
Where do all these Verajoa rumors come from??? What the hell? Yes, he will be a cav on the 29th. No, we should Most certainly not trade him to move from the 24th pick to the lower teens. He is a slightly underpaid BEST PLAYER ON OUR TEAM! Kyrie may take over that role this season, but last year, with Kyrie’s Porous defense, Varajoa undoubtedly led to more wins per game he played than any other cavalier, and he’s still got at least 4 years of high level play left in him. You’re going to give that up just to… Read more »
The problem with Waiters is that someone made him a promise, and he’s shut down workouts/interviews, etc. So to draft him at 4, you’re almost taking him based solely on game film and hearsay.
Also, I’ve heard the Cavs name thrown around when it comes to Sonny Weems and Jamaal Crawford. I would be intrigued by Weems, but the interest there makes me think they might be leaning towards Beal. Crawford I see strictly as a bench player that can back up both guard spots.
Biggest question I have. Who thinks Anderson Varajao is still a Cav on the 29th?
The only scenario I could see trading down to #6 is if MKG and Beal are gone, the Blazers take Drummond, and the Kings take Robinson, leaving us Barnes. Otherwise, they’ll stay at 4 and probably take Beal (given a Davis, TRob, and MKG top 3).
What they’re able to conjure up after that is anyone’s guess.
If Beal or MKG are available at 4 then take whichever of the two is there. If neither are there, I would jump on a trade of the 4/24 for Portland’s 6/11. But I’m skeptical that Portland would make that trade. If you can’t make the trade and Beal & MKG are gone, then I go with Robinson. But maybe Barnes is going to be a terrific pro. He makes more sense for the Cavs than Robinson. My biggest concern with Barnes is that he didn’t show that desire to step up and do what needed to be done when… Read more »
Can we get some input on Dion Waters at #4 if MKG and Beal are gone? I don’t know much about him, but recently noticed two things:
1) Lots of comparisons recently to Dwayne Wade
2) Highest ranked perimeter player in John Hollinger’s draft rater
A few thoughts on this:
1. I’m looking forward to my ruined credibility thanks to all the things I”ve written on the internet that can someday be used to make me look dumb.
2. Yes, Beal at 4. We discuss this further in the podcast that should go up soon.
3. Also, yes trade for two if that’s a realistic possibility. Also discussed in podcast.
Just offer Jordan free drinks/hotel when he comes to gamble. Beal would be a great fit on this team – spread the floor a little bit and if he’s really similar to Ray Allen and can play well off the ball he would complement Uncle Drew well.