Cavs Looking to Acquire More Picks
2012-06-20
From Joe Kotoch over at Pro Basketball Draft:
Trade talks among the teams in the top-10 seems to be heating up. The Cavaliers have approached Charlotte, New Orleans, and Golden State about acquiring their lottery picks. While it is common for teams to talk and gauge interest about potential deals the Cavs have been more aggressive. Sources say the Cavs have expressed the willingness to absorb salary in addition to trading the 24th pick. A potential stumbling block with New Orleans is the Hornets insistence thus far to have Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor included in a deal for the 10th pick. According to one league executive the Cavs could get a deal done with the Warriors if they trade Anderson Varejao and 24 but that the Cavs are unwilling to pull the trigger on that deal right now.
On the subject of the Cavs, PBD reported that the Cavs have Andre Drummond ranked ahead of Harrison Barnes on their current draft board, which is still subject to change. Drummond’s athletic abilities and size are extremely unique and has Grant and his assistants intrigued. Wednesday is a huge day for Drummond as he will be working out in Cleveland.
It’s not like we’re dealing in 100% verifiable facts here, but these rumors are intriguing. Were I in charge of the Cavs front office, I’d strongly consider flipping Varejao and the 24th pick for the seventh selection. It’s a might steep, but it would give them the opportunity to draft both Beal/Drummond and Barnes/Waiters/Lamb/Rapidly Rising Draft Prospect X.
I’ve heard conflicting reports on this, but: both the Ariza and Okafor contracts and a late first-rounder? That’s a bit rich, right? I’m not wholly opposed to taking on those contracts, but I wonder if the Cavs could package one or both of their (very early) second-rounders in exchange for the 10th pick. Because they would already be affording the Hornets a ton of cap relief.
Bear with me for a second while I label the Warriors trade “Scenario A” and the Hornets trade “Scenario B” and play a wishy-washy game of “Benefits and Drawbacks.”
In Scenario A, the Cavs finish the post-LeBron demolition by dealing their second-best player. They’ll be super young, have tons of a cap space, and will probably be one of the three to seven worst teams in the league again next year. This is good or bad depending on how long you think the Cavs should wait to contend for a playoff spot. I think the team needs to take their medicine for one more season before they can hope to do much of anything going forward. They also get their pick of the non-Beal and MKG wings and guards. If they, for example, really love Lamb and want to (virtually) guarantee they’ll get him, Scenario A’s worth strong consideration.
Scenario B makes the Cavs immediately better than Scenario A and ties up their cap for the next couple of seasons. Ariza makes nearly $15 mil over the next couple seasons. (He has a player options for the 2013-14 season, which he’ll almost definitely pick up.) Okafor makes $28 mil over the next two years. My problem with this deal is that it ties up the Cavs’ cap for a couple years (not a major problem) while also making them pretty good (in the long run, perhaps a major problem). The Cavs would likely, for the first time in two years, have six to eight legitimate NBA players on their roster. That’s probably a playoff team in the East, which means the Cavs would have to absolutely nail this draft because their pick next season would land in the late-ish teens.
I don’t see Scenario B happening without some significant tweaks to the rumored deal. As described above in the block-quote, it’s pretty un-Grantian in its philosophy. There is no practical difference between trading for veterans with bloated contracts and overpaying free agents, and I don’t think the organization places much value on getting into the playoffs next season with a starting lineup that has three guys in their late 20s/early 30s.
And there’s perhaps a Scenario C: the Cavs swap the fourth and 24th picks for the Blazers’ pair of lottery selections, which, if they really like Beal and Drummond, doesn’t make much sense, but if they have a cluster of guys on their draft board around the four to eight range and are willing to live with whoever falls to them at the sixth spot, it’s a smart deal.
Obviously, there are plenty of variations on these hypothetical scenarios. Maybe New Orleans only wants their trade partner to take on Okafor’s contract. I keep hearing about this Blazers deal, but it’s not like we have a Marc Stein report that it’s definitely on the table. These rumors are indicative, however, of the fact Chris Grant has spent a lot of time on the phone over the last few weeks. This is encouraging news because I think the Cavs will have to get creative to get the most out of this draft.
UPDATE: Well, Scenario B is off the table, I guess. Okafor and Ariza are headed to DC.
OPINION UPDATE: I guess I’ll also add that this probably means the chances of the Wiz taking Beal just went up considerably. And that if MKG falls to the Cavs and they draft Barnes, I will punch a hole in this blog.
I would feel like a big part of the team would be lost if Andy left. I am real up and down on this idea. If it happened I wouldn’t hate it, but if it doesn’t happen, I wouldn’t be disappointed either.
Trading Varejao and the 24th pick for Golden State’s 7 pick is FUCKING GENIUS!!!! Cavs at the 4th and 7th pick!!!! Are you kidding me do this and do this now!! Big Andy we love you but sorry buddy we can flip you to start a real team with a future all star pg in Irving, defensive power house MKG and a real big at 7 to pair with TT. Anderson isn’t that good, sorry you have a chance to build to contend for the future in a major way! The only way the Cavs will EVER compete is by… Read more »
Yes, it will be difficult to find a player at #7 who will become head-and-shoulders better than Varejao. AV was in the all-star discussion before his injury last year and was playing the best basketball of his life. Now look 4 years down the road: Varejao will be 34 and it’s safe to say he won’t be anywhere near All-Star level. On the other hand, “draft pick #7” will be roughly 24 and just entering the prime of his hopefully long career. If that guy can be a borderline All-Star for a couple years, it’s worth making the trade. We… Read more »
One question: What are the odds the Cavs would draft a player at No. 7 who becomes better than Andy V? I say not very good. It’s a deep draft, yes. But Varejao is a very underrated player who provides a lot of value for the money. I would argue there’s only a 35 to 40 percent chance — and that’s giving Chris Grant’s talent evaluations the benefit of the doubt — they hit on a player who becomes Varejao’s equal or a better player. Players like Joakim Noah and Andy V are surprisingly rare and most definitely underrated. It’s… Read more »
Honestly, I wouldn’t be too upset if the Cavs did draft Drummond, UNLESS MKG is still available. We aren’t going to contend for a championship as constructed anyway, and drafting a young big with a high ceiling right now is a good play. If bigs normally don’t finish polishing their game for 2-3 years, it makes more sense to *start* with TT and Drummond NOW, then pick up wings in next year’s draft or perhaps with the 24 pick or via trade. Also, if the Warriors swap happens it won’t happen until draft-day. The Cavs will call them up if… Read more »
Why do you hate Barnes he is going to be a Stud and play way better with Irving than MKG.
Btw, I am fully behind us taking Drummond. It’s the kind of bold move I think we need to make this year. After seeing him finish in the top 5 of Hollinger’s draft rater I’m comfortable with him. If he works out, we are contenders in 3 years. Contenders for the title…
I really think Barnes is in play at 2 to Charlotte.
Interestingly, the rumor is that the Cavs value Drummond over Barnes… http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/06/sources-cavaliers-have-drummond-ranked-higher-than-barnes/ So, as it looks like Beal to the Wiz is a much bigger possibility today than it was two days ago, it all comes down to who the Bobcats take. If it goes Davis, MKG, Beal, who do we take?
Anyway, with this trade the draft is shaping up to be much more predictable. With Washington having a likely preference for Beal and Cleveland for Kidd-Gilchrist (despite the reports about Barnes, which I think and hope are misdirection or just erroneous), Charlotte becomes much more likely to pick one of those two, regardless of their preference, because of the potential gains from trading down if they don’t mind or actually prefer Robinson. So the Cavs may have to make a trade to get the player they want, but they still have a shot at MKG even if he doesn’t fall… Read more »
I like these Barnes vs. MKG vs. Beal throwdowns going on in the comments. Personally I was vacillating quite a bit between each of them, but John Hollinger’s draft ratings really tipped the scale for me in MKG’s favor. I put a lot of trust in his work as it consistently outperforms scouts’ predictions. And of course in this case his work is confirming the general scouting consensus that MKG is the draft’s best wing. I put a lot of importance on three-point shooting as a key to team offense, and that’s what led me to lean toward Barnes or… Read more »
Rashard Lewis can’t be amnestied by NO. Only Washington could have done that. Only players on a teams roster at the time of the new CBA qualified. That being said, it wouldn’t suprise me if Andre Blatche was amnestied.
Haha I have no idea why I wrote that sincerely. Sigh…long day at work.
Dan –
If a player is amnestied, there is a period of time when all teams can make offers. The amnestied player (I believe) is required to sign with the team offering the most money. This team’s offer then eats into what the initial team owes the amnestied player.
Also, the podcast will be up tonight. We talk about a variety of things. Unfortunately this trade was one of them. I haven’t had time to mix it, but I’ll get it up for you guys tonight.
Sincerely,
Mallory
What about taking a flier on Rashard Lewis, assuming he is amnestied, cut, etc…?
If a player is amnestied, and then sign with a new team, do they get their entire guaranteed contract paid that was amnestied, or do they get the difference between the amnesties deal and the new deal?
If Rashard Lewis gets amnestied and he make $18M (or whatever it is) and we decide to offer him $4M, does he get $22M? Or, does he get $14M from his original contract and $4M from the new one?
When is the podcast going up, does it talk about potential trades?
What about doing the trade for the 7th pick, drafting MKG at 4 and Barnes at 7 if they’re there, and moving Barnes to SG? And we still have a couple early picks in the second round one to add to shooting depth and the other to grab Ezeli or O’Qwinn to help the depth at C.
Slim –
I want MKG too. I think that he will be a better pro than Barnes. But Kyrie and Barnes are really close too. I read somewhere that Kyrie called Barnes his brother so I don’t think the Cavs would draft one or the other based on their relationship with Kyrie because both of them are close with Kyrie
I thought at first that that NO/Wiz trade included the pick and nearly threw something out the window. Then I read Mallory’s comment and am glad the Cavs didn’t do a trade. It would be ok to take on Ariza and Okafor, but definitely not without NO’s tenth pick.
“One of my best friends in life, period,” Kidd-Gilchrist said of Irving, the NBA’s Rookie of the Year this past season. “Just a great guy in life and a leader. He’s a leader on the court. We talk a lot. I would love to play with Kyrie, but if not, oh well. It is what it is.”
No ways Cavs select Barnes over Irving high school teammate MKG.
Tom –
No way New Orleans does that. Davis isn’t getting traded.
I also heard that the Cavs have a deal in the works to cover losing Varejao in a trade with the Warriors. They are in negotiations with a Russian League C named Heeza Sevynfutrdatstynksky.
I’m a fan of Keeping Varejao but if the #7 is in play he might be going away.
Consider this. Trade for the 7th. Offer the 4th, 7th, and our two 2nd round picks for the first.
The possible trade with NOLA has a lot of merit. Ariza and/or Okafor’s contracts expire in two years so the CAP hit is very short term. Both of those guys have value as players in positions of need for the Cavs. Whoever the Cavs draft at #4 and #10, those players will take a couple of years to develop into NBA players. Out of those two drafted players, in addition to Kyrie and TT, It would be highly probable that the Cavs would ultimately have at least two star level players and very possibly three or four. They would also… Read more »
Per Chad Ford, this most likely signifies Wiz taking Beal at number 3. With Bobcats considering Robinson, MKG could fall to cavs.
I want no part of Okafor and Ariza. Save the cap room for next year when there will be a ton of free agents. I like the Cavs kicking the tires, but those two contracts are albatrosses. Also, against any trade that moves Varajao unless we can get a guaranteed borderline all star in return… maybe Portland sign and trades Batum, or something like that. Other than that? I’m against trading everyone’s favorite player, and the heart and soul of the Cavs for a prospect.
This just in
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8077486/sources-washington-wizards-get-new-orleans-hornets-emeka-okafor-trevor-ariza-rashard-lewis-pick
I knew there was no way that 10th pick would be included.
Alex, listen to what you said. would NO be willing to take #33 in exchange for Okafor, Ariza, and #10? Doesn’t that sound effing insane looking at it like that? Why would New Orleans trade two NBA caliber players and the number 10 pick for a second round pick? We’re not talking about Luke Walton here (who is basically a corpse) nor are we talking about a single cap space clogger like Baron Davis (we forget that, had things turned out differently, we would’ve traded Mo Williams, who many viewed as decent, for Baron’s crazy cap eating contract and the… Read more »
Like Scuzz said, would NO be willing to take #33 in exchange for Okafor, Ariza, and #10? If so, that could turn out nicely for us. If there’s one thing we’ve seen Grant do as GM, it’s take on salary for draft picks (Baron Davis, Luke Walton). Going BPA at #4 (I’m assuming Beal), it would give us the opportunity to take some more chances with the other 1st rounders. Zeller/Leonard at #10 and Quincy Miller at #24 would fill the other holes even though there are legitimate concerns. As far as the Warriors deal, it would be eerily similar… Read more »
Well, you must not know about my man-crush on Henson, eh? Btw, for the haters word is Henson had a great workout for Mil but even their GM admitted he won’t be there at #12. He won’t be there at 10 either. If Lamb is there, I take him in heartbeat. Beyond that I think guys like Rivers, PJIII and T Jones merit that pick. Or maybe even Waiters. I take BPA, btw. So I don’t care if we draft 2 SG’s…
Carson, The other main issue with taking on both Ariza and Okafer, is that the 2013 FA class is STACKED, and 2014 is looking bare right now. Things do change though, I won’t be terribly disappointed if we take them both on, but I would prefer to keep 24 if we do, or only take one of them. We’ll see what happens. What are the chances we can trade some of our future picks to move up? Especially if we are taking on Okafer and Ariza and keeping Verajoa, their value is dropping and we have plenty of other teams’… Read more »
KJ, who would you like at 10? And what big man do you like more than Zeller and Meyers not named Drummond and Davis?
If we don’t acquire at least one more pick in the lottery, I’ll be pretty disappointed. We have the assets, and there are teams willing to trade. Having said that, I hope we don’t move Varejao.
@DJW – You can’t amnesty any player that was acquired after the new CBA. So you can’t trade for a bad contract and then use your amnesty on it (if you still have it.) And maybe its not as obvious as I thought it was, but you can’t use your amnesty on any contract signed after the new CBA either.
I think they should do the Hornets deal. The Cavs have had four top-10 picks in the past two years, and have other picks stockpiled by Chris Grant to play with in the future. But the future is now for this team — after being on the cusp of the playoffs for a time last season, the addition of Okafur and Ariza (two solid veterans), the development of Kyrie Irving, and the return of Anderson Varejao could all have the Cavs gunning for the 6-8 seeds in the East playoffs. The playoffs’ baptism of flames will raise the young players’… Read more »
Funny, people think Drummond is a bust-in-waiting while I think Leonard is ABSOULTELY a bust-in-waiting. Hollinger’s draft rater agrees with me. You can do much better at 10 then Meyers and Zeller. Believe me…
I like that idea too, but we’d definitely need to have some lock-down defenders on our bench. We’d also need a good distibuting pg to back up Kyrie as well. That would be an exciting team to watch. There is no way we swing both trades though to be honest. I think if we make a move number #24 would be required to get it done.
@Spots
OK, I didn’t like your idea at first. But when I think about it, it does make a lot of sense. Although, I think Ross would start immediately. Have the Cavs worked out Leonard?
Just do both trades, then go:
4 – harrison barnes
7 – meyers leonard
10 – terrence ross
and suddenly our future team is huge, super athletic, and can really score. Most people might initially hate that idea, but honestly sit back and think about it for a minute.
Kyrie, Ross, Barnes, Tristan, and Leonard starting line up in about three years.
What about 24, 33/34, Varejao and the SAC 1st round pick for the number 5 pick (from SAC)? If they’re looking for a veteran big man, think they would do it?
“There is no practical difference between trading for veterans with bloated contracts and overpaying free agents” I think there is a pretty big difference of about 2-3 years that you have to pay them. Aside from the fact that getting free agents to Cleveland in the first place has proved to be difficult. If you can get the 10 pick you’ll have 4 lottery picks in 2 years. I think that kind of accelerated rebuilding is really the best case scenario for this team. A roster of kyrie, beal, TT, PJ3 and Andy with Gee, Ariza and Okafor coming off… Read more »
Here’s my opinion on this whole shabang (after debating with Colin over gchat for literally hours on this subject over the last month) I think we’re all highly underrating the value of Ariza and Okafor – these guys are actual NBA players, which we don’t have on our roster right now. They have serious strengths that could contribute to success by the Cavs immediately. That’s why I don’t think the Hornets pull this trade, even if they get the 24th pick, for those two guys and the 10th pick. They’re not even that close to the cap – right now… Read more »
So, now we have Barnes cancelling his Kings workout, and Beal isn’t working out for anyone after the Cavs. There you have it. If the Cavs keep the #4 pick- and based on those two reports, it looks like they will- MKG is out of the picture. It’s either Barnes or Beal (unless both are gone, which I highly doubt). If they acquire the #10 pick, they basically have two options: Lamb (if he’s there), or a center (Leonard or Zeller). There are no SF after Barnes worthy of a pick that high….so if they go Beal at #4, they… Read more »
Trading Varejao and the 24th pick for Golden State’s 7 sounds good until you consider the players who are likely going to be there. The only way the Cavs should consider this trade is on draft day when they see who is left at the 7th pick. If it’s a player they really like, then maybe you do it. Otherwise, it’s too risky. I’d feel better about it if it was the 7th pick straight up for Varejao. Taking both Ariza and Okafor is very steep. Adding the 24th pick on top of it? Insane. Barnes won’t workout for the… Read more »
I know with the new CBA teams are required to have a minimum salary so taking on contracts ins’t a bad thing. Maybe if we took both we could turn around a make a second trade? We could package one of the two with our second first round pick (the Lakers/Miami one) to a team that still has amnesty and they could just release the player? Thats pretty unlikely though. Either way, I think taking the two salaries isn’t a big deal because we would only have Kyrie, Tristin, Andy, Gee(hopefully), Ariza, Okafor, and 2-3 rookies. You would not pick… Read more »
Now here’s something interesting: according to Sam Amico, Harrison Barnes canceled his workout with the Kings.
“In other news, Cavs will work out Jared Sullinger this week. Also, Harrison Barnes cancels workout with Kings, who select 5th”
http://hoopshype.com/twitter/tag/cleveland_cavaliers
Makes you wonder if he got a promise.
“I’ve heard conflicting reports on this, but: both the Ariza and Okafor contracts and a late first-rounder? That’s a bit rich, right?”
That’s definitely a bit rich. If the Cavs have to take on both, I don’t think they should include #24. Totally agree that a second rounder would be better.
As far as the Warriors trade, it would go hand-in-hand with the rumor that the Cavs are high on Drummond. They would have to draft him at 4. Then at 7….Lamb, Waiters? Barnes…doubtful he would fall that far.