Cavs: The Podcast – 0008 – The Draft, Pt 1
2012-06-20
IT’S HERE!
iTunes link: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843 (it’ll take some time for the podcast to appear on here)
SoundCloud link: http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0008-the-draft-pt-1
The eagerly anticipated draft podcast has finally arrived (sorry it took so long!)
It’s slightly dated, as we recorded it on Monday (we talk about a potential trade for Okafor) but I think we cover some interested ground, especially on the topics of the fourth pick, potential trades, and Jared Sullinger.
I’m pretty sure we’re going to record a second podcast the night or two before the draft, and we’ll likely follow that up with a post-draft podcast too.
Enjoy!
@travis that’s an awfully negative comment. Not sure why you would post that. I’m sure your life choices present much more successful decisions.
I like your thinking Darryl.
[I’m a needlessly spiteful person and probably not fun to be around.]
Ok, listen to this idea: so the Bobcats are supposedly considering TRob or Barnes at 2, so here’s a scenario 1. Davis 2. TRob or Barne 3. Beal 4. MKG!!! but it doesn’t end there… the Cavs then do that Warriors deal for no 7. Trading Andy and No 24. 5. TRob or Barnes 6. Drummond or Lillard or Lamb or someone 7. Jeremy Lamb Now the Cavs have probably the best developmental backcourt seen in a long time with Kyrie, Lamb, and MKG and a super young crazy athletic Tristan. Just the thought of watching this team play is… Read more »
I am not big on Robinson, because he’s basically TT with a few more years of college development. Redundancy… I’m not big on Drummond, because even in a backcourt-driven offense AND with TT’s improved free throw shooting, I’m not sure it’s a great idea to add another front court shooter who shot SUB 30% in college…even worse than what TT was shooting. I would love to get the 7, and I say if you can trade Varejao and the 24 or the 33 for it, you have to do it…but NOT until draft day. The Cavs won’t compete for anything… Read more »
Ryan sounds like Long. John Krolik, on the other hand, sounds nonexistent.
JJ Hickson has been a below average offensive player throughout his career (see his PER during periods other than his meaningless stretch with Portland) and a terrible defensive player. The Cavs believe TT will be much better than an “underwhelming jumping bean power forwards” given his athleticism and work ethic. JV is a unknown commodity in the NBA. Varejao is 29 and has never played more than 32 minutes a game.
Other than overlooking these obvious facts, your rant against the Cavs makes perfect sense.
And don’t give me this garbage about not needing a true center. That’s a great point, when your SG is the greatest rim protecting guard in the history of the NBA, your small forward is the greatest rim protecting SF in the history of the NBA, and everyone knows how to rebound. Small teams get beat by big teams most of the time, see 2009 Magic vs 2009 Cavs.
Tom Pestak, Did you read my theory on TT, TRob and two seven footers on the roster? TT plays 15 minutes a game at center, primarily guarding the opposing back-up? Perhaps you have and just disagree, but I think TRob and TT could co-exist without leaving the team painfully small. Hickson’s a bum. I wanted Valanciunas but am putting it behind me. Pete, Also, with regards to TT and TRob being redundant, I don’t agree. Robinson was the NCAA’s best defensive rebounder this year, while TT lags there. TT is a very good basket defender, which TRob is not. Robinson… Read more »
Also I like Varejao and think Cleveland should keep him for three more years, but as far as what 19, 20 or 21 year old the team picks; Andy should have little to do with the decision.
Oh wow – if we somehow picked T Rob I would just lose it. And not because I don’t think he’s a great player, but because of this: Cavs trade JJ Hickson (a young athletic power forward that does stupid things) for Omri Casspi (a less young, less athletic hybrid forward that can’t shoot) Cavs draft Tristan Thompson ( a young, athletic power forward that can’t score) and decide not to take legit center Jonas V. Cavs draft Thomas Robinson (a young, athletic power forward that is slightly undersized) That’s 3 underwhelming jumping bean power forwards the cavs will have… Read more »
After looking up Justin Long’s voice, it’s gotta be Ryan.
Haha Slim, do you mean me or Ryan? I’ve been hosting ’em all year long.
PS Is Justin Long guest hosting these podcasts? One you sounds remarkably like him.
Sam Amick described Thomas Robinson as having destroyed Drummond in their Cavs workout. Chad Ford doesn’t even have Drummond as a Cavs candidate for #4. Given both their reputable histories, I don’t see the big D in a cavs uniform any time soon.
Kevin,
Are you slightly warming to Drummond because MKG and Beal could be gone by #4?…lol
Scuzz,
I’m starting to fully embrace what a unique athlete that Drummond is. I have him fifth on my board…so yeah, if MKG and Beal were gone and the Cavs already have a PF…
the “risk vs reward” pick seems tolerable.
To Reb – Where’s Krolik…ever? Hahaha.
Recently (ok, 5 minutes ago), I started to come around a little on picking Robinson at 4. Now obviously if Beal or MKG are there, take either of them, but it wouldn’t be a complete disaster selecting Robinson if they believe he’s the BPA. The part where I will lose some people is that we might be really successful playing TT at center and TRob at PF. Look at some of the center prospects in this draft, Zeller and Leonard. When looking at standing reach and vertical reach, what I consider to be the most important numbers when looking at… Read more »
AlexS, To build on your point… Regarding picking Robinson, let’s say the Cavs have Thompson, Robinson, “future unknown quality 7-footer” (FUQ7F) and “future unknown 7-footer who’s kind of sort of adequate” (FU7FWKOSOA). In a normal game against normally sized front courts, the Cavs could start Robinson and “FUQ7F”. They would both play 30 – 36 minutes, as would Thompson off the bench. Thompson would play 15 minutes at center while “FUQ7F” rested, typically matched up against the opponent’s back-up center. Against the Dwight Howard’s and Andrew Bynum’s of the world, or in the case of foul trouble, maybe FU7FWKOSOA sees… Read more »
I guess another way to ask the question is how many rebounds would you like to see a game from a prospect who’s not primarily valued as a defensive/rebounding specialist? It’s doesn’t seem like a particular strength for Barnes, but i (someone who hasn’t spent nearly as much time as yourself evaluating prospects) don’t really see where its a glaring weakness either.
Where’s Krolik?
@kevin
On ESPN I think Barnes has less rpg than Reggie, but I think i get your point. However, I don’t see how MKG being a strong rebounder makes Barnes a weaker rebounder in an absolute sense. Don’t get me wrong, I have Barnes solidly behind beal, mkg, and drummond, I just don’t get where the ‘he doesnt rebound’ is coming from (unless you just mean he doesn’t rebound at an elite level). Is there something behind his five rebounds a game that doesn’t show up in the stats?
Ps. Sorry for any typos, this is from my phone
Not to say that Barnes is the rebounder that MKG is. But that there could be a reason for his numbers being lower than expected.
Scuzz and Jeff, I think MKG defends the opponents best perimeter scorer typically, whether it’s a 1, 2 or 3, so he may spend more time away from the basket than Barnes on defense. Whatever the case, I don’t think there’s any debate that MKG is the more hustle-oriented player and hence, gets more rebounds, 50/50 balls, etc. Barnes is a below average rebounder. Looking at the 12 small forwards in the draft express database that are likely to be drafted in 2012, he ranks 10th for per 40 minute pace adjusted defensive rebounding. And I don’t know if any… Read more »
@Kevin
Or, it could show that MKG plays closer to the basket than Barnes. That’s certainly the case on offense. On defense, you’d have to look at game film. If MKG is guarding someone in the paint, where Barnes is guarding someone on the wing, that could skew the numbers. It might go a little deeper than just numbers. What was Barnes asked to do by his coach?
Jeff,
MKG played with two lottery bound front court mates and out-rebounded his power forward. Shooting guard Reggie Bullock out-rebounded Barnes while playing with the same two front court players.
As big, fast, strong and explosive as Barnes is; the fact that he doesn’t rebound is a concern.
@DJW
I get your point about Andy and the injuries, but I’m not sure you can blame this last one on him. Drew Gooden slammed his wrist trying to get the ball loose. Also, If they did make the trade, you’d probably have to grab Drummond at 4. He might not slip past Portland.
If you can really trade Andy and 24 for 7, think you need to pull that trigger. As much as we like Andy you can’t ignore the injury concerns. He has a reckless style of play that leads to these injuries and if he tries to protect himself to stay healthy it will take away from his effetiveness. If Beal is there I like Beal at 4 and PJ3 at 7 because that is 2 potential “stars.” I don’t like Drummond at 4 and a J. Lamb at 7 because I don’t think either of these two players will be… Read more »
Just a point about Barnes and his rebounding. I’m not saying that he’s a great rebounder, but I don’t look at it as a point of concern for him. He was the third-leading rebounder behind two potential other lottery picks on a team that led the NCAA in rebounding. Pretty okay for an SF, I think.
Jorge,
Beal outplayed Barnes is one report I saw.
Any info on how these workouts are going or are they all closed doors stuff? Intrigued to know how they ranked against one another.