Cavs: The Podcast 0021 – WE’RE GOING STREAKING
2013-01-28
Things are looking up for the ol’ ball club! A three game win streak, the emergence of a bench, Kyrie playing out of his mind…there’s a lot to smile about these days. So Tom, Dani, and I decided to hop on the line.
In today’s podcast we discuss the win streak, Byron Scott’s contribution to the win streak, Speights, Ellington, and what the future holds for this Cavs team.
We can be found on SoundCloud at – https://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0021-were-going-streaking
And on iTunes at – https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843?mt=2
I still think Leur will be a very good player some day.
Rich –
I don’t really think you can call my theory wrong if you’re okay with this team going .500 for the rest of the season. The two camps are either you want the Cavs to bottom out (again) and draft high or you want them to be as competitive as possible while looking ahead to the future. If we go .500 (or even .400, really) we’ll probably make a slight push for the 8th seed. While we almost definitely will not make the playoffs, it also means it’s unlikely we get the #1, or even a top 5 pick.
I too loved Leuer too coming into this season. Well, come on! I can’t be right on EVERYTHING! Ha!
Ive had a problem with Scott’s extremely predictable offense, but Livingston and Walton are showing what the Princeton looks like when players understand the wrinkles and can make the proper reads quickly. Now I kind of understand the repetition. IMO, Scott’s real strength is the fact that he demands grit, accountability, and productivity, or else (slit throat gesture), which creates a form of natural selection where the last men standing will all be confident, smart, and mentally tough, no matter how much or how little skill they have. I just hate that he seems to sacrifice any and all other… Read more »
Good podcast as always… Cracked up about that part about players named Luke ;-)
Time for some levity: A Heat fan passes away during a playoff game and goes to heaven in his Deep Red and Black jersey. He knocks on the old pearly gates and out walks St. Peter. “Hello sir” says St. Peter, “I’m sorry, no Heat fans in heaven.” “What?” exclaims the man, astonished. “You heard me, no Heat fans.” “But, but, but, I’ve been a good man”, replies the Heat fan. “Oh really”, says St. Peter. “What have you done, then?” “Well” said the supporter, “Three weeks before I died, I gave 100 dollars to the starving children in Africa”.… Read more »
Y’all arguing about whether or not the plan was to tank don’t realize it’s a multi-branching path with tons of either/or decisions that put us where we are now.
Don’t forget they offered more to Batum than Minny.
Maybe that’s why they didn’t buy a bench.
Hopefully MIles is a no quarter guy from here on out.
@Tom P: I thought about demanding a huge apology on Walton, but figured I would just annoy you guys :) I also thought about demanding an apology on Leur – you guys LOVED that dude like 6 months ago and now are ecstatic he has been shipped away, and are even making fun of Memphis bloggers for liking him…. But, again, I don’t want to become a pure troll :) So I keep the mouth shut. @Evil Genius – Point take on CJ. And I agree – would love to see CJ lose minutes in the short run to learn… Read more »
haha. Well remember, Hot Sauce. We’re all different. Kevin loved Leuer and I tweeted right after the trade that Leuer would probably play really well for Memphis if they actually gave him a chance. Of course I also love the trade since the Cavs weren’t even playing Leuer and Ellington/Speights are young and fill a huge void on the team. Also, 1st round pick? Yes please.
I used to say that there is “something for everyone” (to love) here at CtB with all the different writers. Maybe I should revise that to “something for everyone” (to hate).
Yep
Too much Scott hate for my taste. I had to turn it off about 10 minutes in or so.
I’m with you Tom on Irving and Scott. Coached TT? Sure. Luke’s revival…okay. But I think Kyrie’s taking the shots he takes no matter the coach. I’m sure Scott didn’t tell him to shoot it 4 feet from the 3pt line. It’s also a stretch to say he coached Ellington and Speights in that first game. Use them wisely? Yes. Coach? No.
Hopefully Scott catches on that Miles is a 1-2 quarter guy. Ellington could at least fill the remaining minutes.
As for way back on Bill, my point was I think Kidd was already a great player when he got traded. I know he used to ball. It’s a surprise he’s still around and guys that came after him like Iverson have checked out.
Just, listen, Mallory’s entire theory of what this team should have done this off-season is wrong. He thinks they should have tried to win, and I’m glad they didn’t. If they start going .500 the rest of the way, it will be the best of both worlds to me. Still in the lottery, but showing real signs of life heading into next season.
As for Speights, if they think some team will give him like 6-7 million a year, then yea, they have to trade him now.
Yes, Rodney is on the right track. Dan Gilbert, Chris Grant and Byron Scott know exactly what they’re doing. They’re tanking. Calling out Scott is either a poor analysis or an over-analysis of our situation. We are on an outstanding path and the winning streak has nothing to do with it.
Agree with everything in your post Rodney Mac, except for the last line. No reason to trade Speights. He’s exactly the kind of player they want and need going forward. Would be a Herculean task for Cavs to make 8th seed this year (even with Philly and Boston hardships).
@ Tom I think you have Grant’s and Scott’s job description wrong. Grant’s job is to acquire a team capable of winning a championship and competing in multiple years. This team if Grant had wanted could have had enough talent to get the 7 seed easily. If he had bid on Chris Kaman and OJ mayo this could be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But Grant decided he didn’t want to do that. He decided that this team needed its young players to get experience and develop for another year, and acquire another top young talent… Read more »
@Rodney Mac – well I suppose you are talking about this year, and not just in general. That’s a fair way to look at it. There is no way around it – the Cavs are timing the heck out of this rebuild. Big props to Dan Gilbert for having the patience to go along with it.
So just in general – seems a lot of people are upset with things ranging from “Byron HATE” to “calling out Byron”. I’m not sure I understand where this is coming from other than some of Dani’s opinions in the podcast – which was basically that he didn’t credit Byron Scott for individual player development. (Can any of you make that argument? Kyrie Irving wouldn’t be Kyrie Irving w/o Byron Scott?) Byron Scott has been largely absent from critique/analysis on this blog. When the Cavs were blowing 2nd halves left and right I don’t recall any “Byron Scott must go!”… Read more »
Hot Sauce, I think you might be wrong about Ellington. CJ was available and healthy to play in Toronto (he dressed at least), but wound up a DNP-CD. Will be interesting to see how things progress, but I’d be happy seeing Ellington take all of CJ’s minutes. Maybe they can get something for CJ or Boobie at the trade deadline.
We’ve got to figure Boobie could be on his way out for the right price. We then let Ellington take boobs minuets and it’ll help ease our concern of min played. Walton is going to always have a place bc his ability to pass the ball that’s what Scott wants in his second team ball movement/tough D. Scott actually does his rotations in waves early on the goes with who’s performed well, which makes all the sense in the world to me. 1st QTR at the 5:30 mark Waiters out for Livingston and as of last game TT came out… Read more »
Jason – Chris Grant’s job is to acquire players. Byron Scott’s job is not only to develop the players, but to make the team out on the floor more than the sum of their parts. You certainly have to recognized that Tristan Thompson has made huge strides with Byron Scott as a head coach. Earlier this season I lamented that the team was less than the sum of their parts. That the individual wins were usually because a player caught NBA Jam fire from beyond the arc or something. These last 3 games have been a revelation. The second unit… Read more »
I’m with Bill, I was amazed at all the Scott hate. It seemed like a bunch of people who were more concerned about defending their previous positions on Coach Scott and refusing to give the head coach any credit for how the team, or any individual player, performs. The coach has to be given SOME credit for how the team plays, and how the players perform. And BTW, the call to go for 3 WAS coach Scott’s. Kyrie asked him what he wanted to do in the huddle, and Coach Scott said, “If it was me, I’d go for the… Read more »
Note – I meant we’ll see Ellington play the THREE. I forgot to put that in.
But yeah, we’ll see. Lots of options is a good thing – Two months ago our bench was a mess. Not so much anymore.
Until, of course, we start losing again…haha…ha?
Mallory – That is a good point. If they go with 4 small guys, then maybe Ellington can keep getting minutes. My initial thinking is that the smaller lineups will become less likely now that we have 3 solid bigs. But we’ll see how B Scott plays it. He definitely has more options now.
Cody and Dave R, yes- Chris Paul and I think Jason Kidd was a super star under Scott. He wasn’t an elite scorer but he was averaging 10 assists, 7 boards, 2 steals a game. He almost won MVP in 2002 and led his team to 2 Finals. I’m not talking today’s 40 year old Kidd… that dude used to ball
@ DaveR
I see. Well, then yes, he did mean Jason Kidd.
Hot Sauce – you made one mistake – Livingston has been splitting minutes between the 1/2/3 AND 4. He’s not just playing 1/2/3
I have a feeling we’ll see some small lineups with Ellington too.
As for Livingston – you’re dead right. I’ll admit I loved Livingston way back when (I actually think I was watching that leg game when it happened…yikes!) so my love for him might be irrational, but I really do think he’s got a lot of quality attributes to contribute to this team.
[Note: I posted something similar at the end of yesterday’s thread but moving it here since that thread is dead] While I am fired up about Ellington’s play the last 2 games, I am not convinced he will play all that much once Miles comes back. As such, I think maybe we are overestimating his impact here. Between the 1-3 spots you have 144 minutes per game. You have Kyrie getting 35, Dion getting 30, Gee getting 30, Livingston getting 20, and Miles getting 20. That’s 135 minutes. While I would love to see Gee sent to the bench, I… Read more »
Cody, he said 3. One being KI and two being CP3. I don’t remember all his stops I guess…who was the other?
have* not jar. Damn iPhone autocorrect. Lol
I agree. Don’t count on getting a high pick in the lottery this year. I’d consider this a successful season if the Cavs are the 9th seed in the East, barely missing the playoffs. (Had the trade been made earlier, they probably would’ve made the playoffs, which I think wouldve been a good thing, but I digress). At some point, you jar to start winning games. For development and for the players to keep believing in the system. Notice that Kyrie said “thanks to management” at the Toronto game for that trade. The trade clearly encouraged the players. You can’t… Read more »
@ DaveR
He means Chris Paul.
With TT, Scott is possibly doing a great job. I can’t credit him with what Kryie is doing right now though. And who was the first superstar PG he developed??? I hope you don’t mean Kidd.
Bill – I actually agree with you about doubting things now. I think you’ll see a stronger team from here on out, largely because less onus will fall on Zeller/Waiters to deliver so much. As long as production doesn’t drop too much from Tristan (it’ll drop somewhat, guys. He’s definitely improved, but teams will start figuring out how to stop that hook sooner or later) we’ll probably see 30-40% Ws from here on out. At least, I hope.
Donnie, I second your concerns about Luke Walton distributing psychedelic drugs to teammates. Could cause the team to have too much fun and lose focus on basketball
under the cap* not “another the cap”
Sure, Grant didn’t know this particular trade would happen but he knew that he would put the team in a position to be one of only three teams with cap space, and it was probable that teams would want to get another the cap. The pick might end up not coming around for several years but you never know. The pick adds flexibility and the potential to add more talent. Additionally, making a playoff appearance this year takes us from drafting a Noel, Shabazz or McLemore, who will very likely be NBA starters and maybe all stars to guys with… Read more »
That’s fair, Bill, although no one can say for sure where our pick is going to land. With regards to the pick, it’s not as though Grant knew this trade was going to be available – it’s a good trade, don’t get me wrong, but that pick’s value is still in question to SOME degree, and it’s not like Speights and Ellington are stars themselves. The point is in the grand scheme of how this team is composed I’m not sure that trade is THAT much greater than had we signed guys in the off season. The pick has value,… Read more »
Mallory, you point out the fact that you wish that Grant would’ve gotten us a bench in the offseason by signing some Speights/Elllington-like guys and that perhaps we could’ve made the playoffs. But, you have to keep in mind that we wouldn’t have been able to pick up a future 1st rounder in this trade. Cap space is valueable. Also, our draft pick for this year would’ve been 15-20 instead of lottery… that’s a big difference in the future and I think Grant made the right choice by waiting.
Bill –
I’m not sure you can attribute TT/Kyrie to Scott. I’m not sure you CAN’T either, but to say that’s his accomplishment is unfounded.
Dani, Tom and I all pretty much agreed that the real Scott test starts now. With the trade came a bench, and with a bench comes the expectation of winning. If he can pull it off and have us lingering somewhere around that 8th seed (again, as I said in the podcast, not expecting we’ll make it, but we should be MUCH improved) then he’ll get the credit he deserves.
So what’s the general mood now? Positive? I really think this bench is a difference maker – we have an elite scorer (Kyrie) A consistently pretty good guy (TT) guys who can go off on any given night (Miles, Waiters) plus some decent pieces (Livingston, Zeller, Speights, Ellington, Boobie) – not exactly where to place Gee, but he’s somewhere in there too. Walton is probably the odd man out, but he’ll provide some leadership. The difference between before and now is that we have two more guys off the bench in Speights and Ellington that have the capacity to score.… Read more »
Wow the Scott hate continues despite winning. I don’t understand it… Accomplishments: 1. Kyrie is the best young player in the league (the 3rd superstar PG Scott has developed). 2. TT turned into a great rebounder and an efficient offensive force in a year and a half. Who would’ve thought that would happen? 3. Scott has implemented Livingston into the lineup and made use of his skills (someone who the god awful Wizards gave up on) 4. Freaking Luke Walton looks like an NBA player under Scott’s system! 5. Plugged Speights and Ellington into the lineup immediately and is winning… Read more »