State of The LeBron: Times are Grim
2010-06-25
So far this offseason, two LeBron-related realities have become clear. The first is that LeBron does not feel such a strong sense of loyalty towards Cleveland and the current Cavalier team that he has secretly planned on returning to the Cavs no matter what. If that was how he felt, one assumes he would have talked to Tom Izzo.
LeBron refusing to assure Izzo he would return to the Cavs didn’t/doesn’t guarantee that he’s leaving, but it does strongly suggest that Cleveland would need to give him a better supporting cast than any other team, or at least one nearly as good. There is now a very high likelihood that the Chicago Bulls will be able to offer LeBron a far better supporting cast than the Cleveland Cavaliers will be able to offer him. If they can’t the Miami Heat will likely be able to offer James the chance to pair with Wade and at least one other big free agent. In my heart, I can’t imagine LeBron playing for another team. But my head is telling me LeBron has likely played his last game as a Cavalier.
Assuming they can grab James and Bosh, Chicago makes perfect basketball sense for LeBron, what with Derrick Rose creating plays for LeBron to finish and Bosh and Noah finishing them. I also think people underestimate just how good of a defense Thibodeau could build around LeBron and Noah.
I thought about going in-depth on the above, but felt squicky about it. Instead, here’s how LeBron-to-Chicago could potentially get botched. (This is assuming Chicago fails to move Deng for a useful package.)
As has been noted, LeBron and Rose wouldn’t be the best pair of superstars on their own together. Bosh has let it be known he’s waiting on LeBron, and believes himself to be a centerpiece. The prospect of being a possible second/third fiddle on the Bulls might not appeal to him.
Also, remember that the Bulls don’t have quite the money to give both James and Bosh max contracts if they don’t make another move. LeBron will want the max, and so will the player’s association and the other owners. Bosh doesn’t have nearly the endorsement money that LeBron does, and not getting the max might hurt his pride. Amar’e and Boozer may be backup plans for Chicago, but Amar’e is likely going to Miami and Boozer isn’t Bosh.
Unless LeBron has heard seriously bad things about Thibodeau, is really chapped about Noah’s Cleveland comments, or doesn’t want to play in the same city Michael Jordan played in (and honestly, if it’s the latter, I regret ever having rooted for LeBron), I don’t see many other reasons why Chicago wouldn’t make sense for LeBron. (Pat Riley’s “Combine Like Voltron” pitch also has a puncher’s chance of working.)
Basically, all I really want to say in the weeks before this does or doesn’t actually happen is that it’s nobody’s fault. The front office had two good chances to win a championship, and it went for them. In this league, there’s no excuse for not going all-out when the opportunity to win a title is there.
All the cap space and patience in the world wouldn’t have gotten them a Bosh/Rose/Noah combination, because they didn’t have the draft picks. The options available to the front office were to go for the good chance the Cavs could win a championship with a team thrown together around LeBron or go for the slim chance of building an NBA 2k team around LeBron. The choice they made likely won’t pan out, but that doesn’t mean it was the wrong one.
LeBron’s always made his priorities clear: He wants to be on the team that gives him the best chance of winning championships in the near future. The Cavs made those moves, or at least what they thought those moves were. Now they have few assets or ways to improve, and there are teams that can potentially give LeBron a better chance to win a championships ever did or could.
Everyone in this organization did their best. They were contenders. Things didn’t go their way. That happens sometimes. It doesn’t mean there were any bad guys involved in the equation. I’ll always wonder what would have happened had the ball bounced a different way in games 1 and 4 of the 2009 ECF, or if anyone was prepared for the Celtics in these playoffs. This was a heck of a team. They were a contender, and that’s all you can ask a team to be. All of that is over now; the next couple of weeks will tell just how over it is.
One thing that is being overlooked is that Bosh has stated he wants a sign and trade to get his full bird rights contract. Chicago and none of the other teams that have dumped salary no longer have the resources to pull of a sign and trade. with the new cba being the unknown factor dont expect players to leave monet on the table. So let look at the cavs what if lebron wants to stay the cavs have the resources to pull a sign an trade for bosh thus both players can get full max contracts. How about Andy,… Read more »
To paraphrase Bill Simmons in part 2 of his NBA Draft podcast: There’s no way Portland is able to draw in a Sam Presti level GM after burning Pritchard. The only guys they’ll be able to get will have no other prospects.
I have to keep reminding everyone that Amare Stoudemire was on the last year of his contract, and moving a pick and JJ Hickson for a guy who would be in SERIOUS doubt of playing more than 3 months for this team is a risk of epic proportions, and I still say wasn’t worth taking. Look, Windhorst is great, but like you said he’s been wrong before. Such as when he told Reghi that there was a really good chance we would be doing a deal with at eam in California before the draft. That didn’t pan out. Windhorst doesn’t… Read more »
the organization just panicked and made bad moves. fans should blame the ferry. first, there was the shaq debacle. then the cavs compounded matters when they didn’t go after stoudemire(rumor was they wouldn’t give up j.j. hickson, which is just as hilarious as when the bulls refused to give up luol deng for pau gasol), and then ended up trading for jamison. if you really were concerned about rashard lewis and stretching the floor, as a warrior fan, i can tell you stephen jackson(when he was available) was the guy to get. a clutch player who can defend multiple positions… Read more »
What’s the relevance with the adidas/nike thing? LBJ is supposedly “more comfortable” in New York?
i wish you guys would seek out every interview and article written by windhorst., if ya did, you would know that windy (who knows LBJ better than any of us. is he infallible? no, but he’s the closest thing we’ve got) said that NYC still remains the first choice IF LBJ leaves cleveland. yet, here are krolik and jon barry and rich, amongst MANY others proclaiming chicago is the obvious destination for LBJ. not hating here but i’ll stick with windy says for the foreseeable future… FACT: addidas offered more of *everything* to a young LBJ than nike did, yet… Read more »
Rich, the only consolation I will have if LeBron doesn’t resign with the Cavs is if the Knicks end up signing Gay to a max contract. I hope the Knicks remain irrelevant for the next 10 years after all the arrogance we’ve had to absorb from New Yorkers the last 2 years.
The Heat don’t have any fans unless they’re winning, and the Bulls weren’t realistically in the hunt until the end of the season, so we didn’t have to take much crap from their (non-existent in Miami’s case) fan bases.
The tide on this swing changes by the hour. With this news of him not going on a FA tour coupled with the fact that cavs didn’t go in to panic mode at the draft, it’s like everything has now shifted back to Cleveland. Oh man, the next two weeks are going to be a fun, fun ride.
Well, if Knicks fans didn’t realize it yesterday, they sure do now. Their first big thing, the ability to sign 2 max players outright, ended in the last few days when Miami and Chicago got in the same position.
Their second big thing (and they only had these two) was selling LeBron James on the greatness that is New York City. Well that died tonight. Good luck KNicks fans with a squad led by David Lee and Rudy Gay for the next five years. Should be awesome.
They only need to clear James Johnson’s very small contract in order to outright sign Bosh and LeBron to max deals without the need for a SnT.
Still don’t get why the Wiz took on Hinrich. SOmeone explain that one to me.
Well my stuff no longer posts, kind of sad.
I also kind of wish the Cavs had kept Danny Ferry. Of course he’s made mistakes, but isn’t experience a huge part of becoming a good GM? I thought by this year he had already become a good GM, and I bet he has learned a lot more still by this point.
“They were a contender, and that’s all you can ask a team to be.” Dissatisfyingly, a lot of it really does boil down to that. However, I do wish that the Cavs had pursued more of a long-term strategy. If they had been making moves (over the past seven years) on the assumption that LeBron was staying, they would probably be in a better position to (a) get LeBron to stay and (b) contend throughout his prime. The drive to win a title (or bust) before 2010 always seemed bizarre to me. And now it’s obvious to everyone that past… Read more »
Him saying its all about the basketball is kind of what troubles me if the Bulls really could get Bosh. I’m happy he’s not doing a “city tour”, but in all honesty, he probably made that decision mostly because it would seem tacky getting lavished by all those teams.
@ben tej both LBJ and bosh would have to take less money if they both sign with chicago. i’m pretty sure only the kncisk can affrod TWO max deals. athletes are not known for taking less money in the PRIME if their careers. you would think krolik would mention this more but i think he might be benny the bull… and how can you NOT feel good about LBJ saying “it’s all about basketball and oh yeah, come to OHIO?” that’s not positive? i will now wait three seconds for rich to chime in, with krolik to follow with a… Read more »
YoYoMa – Chicago doesn’t need to trade to get Bosh, they can just straight up sign him. I get the impression he’s not so interested in coming to Cleveland to get Toronto to do a sign and trade with them.
One thing for ALL to consider. If Bosh and Lebron could play in Cleveland, both for more money (sign and trade with Toronto), isn’t that a bit more enticing than playing together in Chicago for less money?? I’m not sure why this isn’t being mentioned in the national medai?? Hmmm…. Toronto would want to try and get some talent for Bosh if possible. I think Toronto is doing a sign and trade with whichever team Bosh ends up going to. I’m sure Bosh would prefer this as well. Why is the additional cap space all of a sudden make Chicago… Read more »
Suckers.
Not sure if I should feel ambivalent or good about that news. At least I know it shouldn’t make me feel worse, and that’s a good thing for a Cavs fan these days.
Knowing next year’s coach would certainly provide a much answer in all of this current uncertainty
I have been grappling with this harsh possibility all day. At this point, if he came back, I’d partially forgive him for that game 5 and Celtics series debacle. I just think of how bad my lasting impression of him will be in a Cavs jersey. We were “spoiled” for 7 years.’ We saw many a games reflecting how talented he is. But I’ve never questioned him until that series. And as that is potentially his last game as a Cavalier, that’s how I’ll remember him if he leaves. I will certainly watch him play no matter where he goes.… Read more »
LeBron re-signs, Bosh comes in S&T, all is right in the Cavalier world.
This is totally ownerships fault. they lft him without a coach and a gm. they gave him the easy out and played it like a bunch of amateurs. If they kept the order and said we came really close but just lost to a more experienced team and we will be back in the championship hunt again next yr i guarantee he would have stayed. ownership acted like the team was full of chumps and lebron agreed. Going into the playoffs I thought that the cavs had the best shot to take home the title this year . All that… Read more »
Here in Seattle, our entire team left. I feel your pain.
If LeBron leaves, he will hurt his image alot in the Cleveland area and I feel, no matter what anybody thinks, that he will not be received warmly by 20,562, maybe by 10,000 of them, but the other will have an awful lot of rage and hate towards him and the Q could resemble Browns Stadium during bottlegate. Of course, I hope cleveland fans dont resort to it, but alot of Cleveland people’s hearts are in their sports teams and this wouldnt be an instance where the player didnt have a choice. I really really believe it will be hard… Read more »
@AdamD, the Bulls won’t have a midlevel exception. They are under the cap. Teams that are under the cap don’t get a midlevel.
Can you win a title without anyone who can shoot the three? With the Hinrich trade, they dont have a single sharpshooter. Rose made 16 3s last year. Lebron is streaky at best from 3, as is Deng.
Not saying they couldn’t make another move, or maybe sign Ray Allen for the mid-level exception maybe… but who’s going to want to help make this team stronger if they get Lebron/Bosh?
Celtics fan here. I feel bad for you guys. It looks from here like LeBron is nearly out the door for you. I agree with John that it made sense for the Cavs to try to put together squads that could win it now, but you have to wonder whether a more Sam Presti-like approach would have led to a better outcome. Hindsight is always 20/20. I agree with those who said you didn’t get the best of LeBron in the Celtics series. I don’t know how much was his head (were those DWest&LeBron’s mom rumors true?) and how much… Read more »
@Rich the whole Lebron approving thing is true but its not unique it’s just standard policy for a team to run ideas by their superstars. This is why CP3 was so pissed when they fired Byron Scott. He wasn’t consulted. I’m beginning tocome to terms with the fact that lebron is most likely leaving. The only way I think we can get him to stay is through a miracle trade. CP3 or Bosh. This way we actually get a superstar to pair with lebron. But think about it, even if lebron stays can these cavs compete with a rose/naoh/bosh chicago… Read more »
if cleveland was so unlucky, they would have lost the lottery in 2003 and we wouldn’t have had lebron at all. even without championships, cleveland has a rich sports history.
Totally agree Zeus. I think he’s leaving, but he better realize that he will NOT be welcome back in Akron if he does. Anyway, here is a name for you guys. Paul Millsap. I firmly believe if Utah re-signs Boozer, then Millsap becomes available. One thing they need in Utah is a legit big man who can defend and Anderson Varejao fits that bill. Millsap, imo, is a better overall player but Utah would already have Boozer who plays the exact same position in the exact same way. I would think they’d be at least a little intrigued by a… Read more »
Ah, yes! The whole asisine “LeBron is only loyal to Akron” argument. If LeBron leaves Cleveland, he’s going to “betraying” Akron just as much as he would Cleveland. He’s not going to be welcome back home in Akron anymore than he’s welcome in Cleveland. The people of Akron were Cavs fan before, during and will be after LeBron. It is what it is.
Those teams are so barren I don’t want anything from a sign and trade;. Forget taking on Dengs 11 million dollar a year contract and lets just take the cap space plz.
Bron is not looking to take care of Cleveland, he’s looking to take care of himself. I don’t mean that in any negative way, I think it’s just how it is. If we trade Bron to Chicago, then I could see us wanting Deng in return, if Miami we could possibly get a Beasly/J O’neal , if NY then possible David Lee. I think the Cavs would also ‘throw in’ a bad contract to help clear up some space for another trade. The 76ers are willing to part ways with Iguodala which would fit in well with the Bron-less Cavs,… Read more »
True. Good point Nupe. I wonder if that also can be his way of “taking care of Cleveland” too. Interesting to see what we’d be able to get back though. Miami has no one under contract and NY has slim pickings. Luol Deng might be traded before 7/1 too.
Jeff, the only reason for a sign and trade is because the Cavs can offer him more money than anybody else. The ‘max’ deal he can sign with the Cavs is about 20 mil more and 1 year longer than what he could gurantee with any other team. Signing with the Cavs then leaving is the ‘actual’ best he can do financially. He gives that up w/o a sign and trade. Maximizing his earning and winning potential at the same time = sign and trade.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/jun/25/nba-star-lebron-james-release-headphones-line-ar-121982/
What a silly article and just look at how ridiculous the quotes from the parties involved sound. Can’t wait to listen to music before heading to work so I can focus my energy to what I need to do.
Just some of my thoughts, but I don’t think there is any chance of a sign and a trade with LBJ (there is no need for anyone to have to do that with Chicago, Miami, and NY having all that cap room) and there’s also a good chance we could see a lockout in 2011. If LBJ leaves, I think we go into the season with the same cast of characters, minus the MVP, play around .500 (the East is bad) and challenge for the 6-8 spots. If Charlotte, Toronto, and Milwaukee can do that, then so can we. Forget… Read more »
The Cavs won 127 games over the last two years… they didn’t “suck.”
Erik, the rallies and songs are taking place everywhere, not just Cleveland. I think it’s sort of pathetic all the way around. The one thing that I’m really worried about now is Gilberts ability to rebuild properly. He can spend money. He wants to win. These are all good things. But if there is one poor part of the Gilber years, it’s been in the draft. He doesn’t use it. He doesn’t want to use it. He hasn’t really had a chance to use it. I’m worried he won’t realize that the draft is essential to a rebuilding team and… Read more »
i agree the smart money is on lebron leaving, which has led me wonder about gilbert’s thoughts on rebuilding. i think i would rather suffer through two or three dismal seasons for better draft position than go through what we saw in the mid to late 90s when the cavs teams were just good enough to just get into the playoffs and lose in the first round and miss out on the lottery. my impression of gilbert is that he doesn’t have that kind of patience, but that impression comes mostly from the last few years when the team had… Read more »
LBJ has said on a number of occasions that he’s loyal to his hometown of AKRON. As a Cavs fan I want to call Cleveland his hometown but that just isn’t the case. I can see Bron playing in Miami (better fit imo than Chicago) and if/when he wins another MVP he’ll accept it in Akron as he has done for the last two years. He’ll continue his bike rides and other charitable things in Akron and that’s how he’ll maintain his ‘loyalty’ to his hometown. The best chance Cle has of keeping LBJ is in a Paul deal and… Read more »
roger: fair enough, though I take an NHL championship as seriously as an Arena Football title. The LeBron situation reminds me of The Godfather. That movie is all about family vs. business, like how Tessio (Abe Vigoda) explains the attempted hit on Michael: It was just business. Since LeBron is a hometown hero, it seems like Cle. is trying to use that sentimental stuff to leverage LeBron (ie: the depressing rallies and pathetic song). Problem there is LeBron’s sentiments have been disappointed with a series of early playoff exits. And considering LBJ’s billionaire aspirations, I think he sees himself as… Read more »
@Erik – fill that Stanley Cup with something to drown your sorrows. For a long time I thought he was staying, but it’s all gotten so crazy now.
If it makes you Cavs fans feel better, myself and a lot of other Bulls fans don’t really believe LeBron will show up — we’re envisioning doomsday (i.e. Joe Johnson). We’ll see whose fatalism wins out, I guess.
Even if LeBron did approve the moves, who cares. If Dann Ferry is letting leBron make the decisions, then that is ALL Danny Ferrys fault and not LeBrons. I find it funny people are blaming LeBron for the moves made, but what you shold really be doing is asking yourself why he was allowed to make those decisions in the first place? Danny Ferry let him. Sign of a VERY WEAK gm.
Dear LeBron, We Need You
Who do you want LeBron to play for?
Align your vote w/ a donation supporting a local charity in your city.
http://bit.ly/dearlebron
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@ Eric If I remember correctly, Ferry asked LeBron if he’d like to play with Hughes and Shaq before the moves. Then Ferry pulled the trigger. Probably didn’t ask about AP/Jamario or even the Ben Wallace trade, but those were solid moves. The Cavs took their shot and they went for it. I respect them for it. As for talent, JJ Hickson would have been a top 5 pick this year (maybe #2), Mo would be a good 6th man, Jamison is solid and an expiring in 2011, Andy is All-NBA defense, and Powe is a solid vet. I think… Read more »
@Eric- how could say what Goldchains said is delusional??… Shaq and Jamison played like two freakin games together before the playoffs, the Cavs also didn’t have a real center for about two months before the playoffs. They start the first game of the playoffs with Shaq starting, when they just finished a streak of great “small-ball” basketball. A LOT of their losing had to do with chemistry. There was no consistency on offense, ever.
Ryan P. Goldchains is the character Frito from idiocracy. If you think the reason why the Cavs got thrown out of the playoffs is because of a lack of chemistry you are delusional. If there’s ever a stage production of Major League you can play that Randy Quaid character. The Cavs lost because they suck. Lebron is the only player you have that’s worth a damn. And that explains why Gilbert/Grant won’t be able to pull off any trades this summer that will be note worthy. Alack of talent not chemistry did the Cavs in. As always. @ Keith, my… Read more »
@Jeff
Exactly. That is what hurts so bad. For once it isn’t about the money, he just doesn’t want to play for us. Ouch.
I just don’t think it’s fair to call him a quitter if he leaves Cleveland. He may have quit in game 5, but he was there for SEVEN years. Cleveland is putting way to much pressure on his back, e.g. the city will dive into a recession, he will never be loved by Cle, Clev will never win a champ… All of this may be true, but people have to remember that he’s in his prime and this dude NEEDS a championship and it could take the Cavs another couple years to build another great team. Is this too ridiculous… Read more »
Two things here: 1) Who cares what LeBron approved!!! He’s a player; not a GM or owner. His job is to win games on the court, not run the front office. What LeBron approved and did not is irrelevant. 2) Every player needs a great team to win a championship. My oh my how everyone seems to forget how loaded the Bulls were during Jordan’s 6 titles. Pipper is a top 50 player of all time. Rodman was defensive player of the yr and lead the league in rebounding. They had productive bigs his whole time there. Anyone remember when… Read more »
Eric is Randy Quaid’s character from Major League. (“Warm up the showers, start the bus!”) Many cleveland fans are just hoping that hating Lebron or blaming him will make it easier if/when he leaves. Judy I agree with you, there is no way the Cavs made a single move without running it past lebron. Your delirious if you think otherwise. We did what we could, but it all came together too fast without enough time to adjust. Shaq and Z coming into serious playoff minutes while still gettin back into game shape. The whole team trying to find some form… Read more »
@ Eric
LeBron approved of Larry Hughes and Shaq for certain. This has been documented. Not sure about the rest of the moves. He most likely approved of Boobies contract too.
LeBron has been covering himself for the past two years with his comments about being all about winning. That was a shrewd move. Now, he has an easy explanation to the city of Cleveland. He knew that he and all these other guys were coming out the same year and knew that somehow/some way he could be teamed up with a Bosh, Boozer, Wade, Amare, or Joe Johnson and have a great chance at winning consisitently over the length of his contract. Much better than what the Cavs can offer. And, the cynical Cleveland fan in me is resigned to… Read more »
Judy when did Lebron approve of those moves? Was after Gilbert/Ferry decided that is what they wanted and before the decision was announced to the media? I doubt very seriously that Lebron has ever had any real influence on who was traded/drafted to and the team. But, even if Lebron did, his poor decison making should a reason why all Cavs fans should be screaming to the high heavens that he should leave immediately. Without delay!
Kobe also didn’t have to go anywhere to find help, the Lakers brought him hall of famers in their prime. And saying Derrick Rose is going to be a hall of famer is premature anyway. Long, long way to go before that happens.
if lebron wants to have a legacy of being the greatest of all-time, going to chicago with rose/noah/bosh might hurt that. there would always be an asterisk that he was a quitter in cleveland and that he HAD to team up with not 1 but 2 potential future hall of famers in order to win a title. kobe didnt have to do that. :)
@Steve, all the trades that were made, you can bet Lebron approved of them. This like many other things are hindsight 20/20. They didnt work we agree on that. That and all the blockbuster trades they made in the past two years that in reality made the Cavs painfully worse defensively. But as you’ve mentioned the teams that lost to ORL and Celtics were not as good of total teams. I still believe the Cavs did not loose to the Celtics because the Celtics were way superior, but simply because the Cavs did not play hard enough and they did.… Read more »
I have a hard time buying the “it’s no one’s fault”. Since getting LeBron, they have traded away draft picks, or the year they had one, wasted it on Luke Jackson. In addition, the year they signed Donyell and Hughes, they had as much cap space as just about anybody now. It’s easier to say this now, but the front office failed to surround LeBron with enough talent. They had SEVEN years to do it. The teams that lost to ORL and the Celtics were no where near as good of total teams. If you had an open draft either… Read more »
You’re right. Its sad that its come down to this. To me the saddest part after the fact that Lebron might actually leave is the fact that the other 14 guyz that brought him this far, that helped become as great as he is will never get the respect they deserve . That just pains me.
John, great minds… I swear I woke up thinking just what you said. I have come to grips with the fact that Chicago may just be too hard to pass up. It has nothing to do with loyalty, that is just a damn good situation and we can’t come close to giving him the same opportunity. We did everything we could, which like you said might not have been the absolute best moves, but they were the best moves at the time and given the situation. If he does come back, I will completely forgive him for creating and allowing… Read more »
Would NO take West, Mo, Hickson + Shaq in an S&T for Paul and Okafur.
I don’t even know if that would work and if it did I’m not sure they’d go for it.
At this point, there is only an outside chance that the Cavs keep Lebron, and that is a possible trade to get Chris Paul. The question is, do the Cavs have enough to give New Orleans in return ? I doubt it. It’s shaping up to be a recruting war between Lebron and Dwayne Wade. The Heat have cap space for two FA’s, (and possibly three if Beasly is traded). If Lebron goes to the Bulls or Nets, he will bring another FA with him, the question is, who ? Lebron will have the pick of the litter, yet Wade’s… Read more »
Just a guess, but I bet the sun still rises in Cleveland on July 2nd.