Links to the Present: Free Agency Edition — Updated
2014-07-02
Free agency has started in the NBA, so there is a lot of money that is being given out to players that may or may not deserve it. Martin Gortat, a center the Cavs could have used, got a five year deal worth $60 million. The pitbull defender, Avery Bradley, has been re-signed by the Celtics for a four year contract worth $32 million. The guard who got away, Shaun Livingston, has gone to the Warriors where the details of his contract still haven’t been released. And, of course, Kyrie Irving has agreed to a max extension with the Cavs.
Update:
Utah RFA Gordon Hayward is meeting with Cavaliers officials in Cleveland today, sources tell Yahoo. Offer sheet could be forthcoming.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 2, 2014
Cavs believed to be preparing a max offer sheet for restricted free agent Gordon Hayward, sources said. Yahoo reported he is visiting today
— Brian Windhorst (@WindhorstESPN) July 2, 2014
Update II:
C.J. Miles is first #Cavs' free agent to leave: Agrees to 4-year, $18M deal with Pacers, Indianapolis Star reports
— Bob Finnan (@BobCavsinsider) July 2, 2014
Alex Raffalli at Stepien Rules breaks down the Kyrie contract if you’re interested in what the Rose rule does for Kyrie, and he talks about why the team is doing everything right this offseason. Terry Pluto of The Plain Dealer covered exactly what led to the deal being made immediately when free agency started.
The Cavs have been staying strong and have avoided spending any big money yet. This is something that Chris Fedor of The Northeast Ohio Media Group thinks is the best play for the team, but Jason Lloyd over at the Beacon Journal thinks that spending money is how the Cavs are going to succeed. He thinks this may lead to LeBron James signing with the team because the King is troubled by the Heat’s lack of spending.
Gilbert will spend any price to win, and that’s not to label Arison as cheap. The Heat have consistently held one of the league’s highest payrolls since James joined them and will likely be in line to pay an expensive repeat offenders tax following next season. But the Cavs
certainly will cite the Miller amnesty, if given the opportunity, as proof Gilbert is willing to spend more than Arison.
When free agency ends how much the Cavs spend will probably end up somewhere in the middle. I’ve heard of cost cutting deals and deals that could be costly.
Justin Rowan of Fear The Sword covers a possible deal with the Nets where Cleveland sends Jarrett Jack away for Marcus Thorton. The deal would cut money for the Cavs next year, since Thorton’s deal is only for this year.
Marcus Thornton will be entering the final year of his contract at a salary of $8,575,000. While the potential swap wouldn’t create cap space for this summer, it would help create room down the road.
This deal is a saver for anyone that believes Jack is not going to return to the form he displayed with the Warriors that caused the Cavs to give him his contract for $25 million.
There are rumors floating about that the Cavs may make an offer for Gordon Hayward.
Jazz vowing to match any offer to RFA Gordon Hayward but fresh rumbles tonight that Cavs weighing wisdom of big offer sheet to Hayward
— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) July 1, 2014
If the Cavs are serious about getting Hayward, they would be looking to pay upwards of $10 million a year.
Terry Pluto gives out his Cavs focused free agency thoughts in a column for The Plain Dealer. The one new name being thrown out as a possible player for the Cavs is Channing Frye.
One free agent target for the Cavs is expected to be Channing Frye, who played for Phoenix last season. General Manager David Griffin likes big men who can shoot. Griffin also was with the Suns when Frye was brought to Phoenix. The 6-foot-11 Frye averaged 11.1 points, 5.1 rebounds and shot .432 from the field (.370 on 3-pointers). Frye fires away from outside, 432-of-778 field goal attempts were 3-pointers. He is an unrestricted free agent, and has a relationship with Griffin.
Frye could be a fine fit for the Cavs even though he isn’t the greatest rebounder. Andrew Wiggins and Andy Varejao could pick up some of the slack in the rebounding department, and the team would benefit from his ability to stretch defenses.
The Cavs should also be going after their best three point shooting wing free agent, CJ Miles, according to Zak Kolesar of Right Down Euclid.
The Cavaliers’ offense averaged 108.2 points per 100 possessions with Miles on the court and 104.9 points per 100 possessions without him. The impact was even larger on the defensive end, where the Cavaliers allowed 106.2 points per 100 possessions with Miles on the court, and 109.9 points per 100 possessions with him on the bench.
I have to agree with him as every stat you read about CJ Miles backs up the idea that he is an above average to fairly good player in the league. His defense is the best selling point, as the Cavs have struggled defending wing players.
Players aren’t the only people getting paid this offseason. Coaches are on the moves to. With Jason Kidd going to the Bucks, the Nets have decided to hire Lionel Hollins.
Sides sorting final details in hopes of wrapping up Lionel Hollins’ looming deal w/Nets today. Multiyear deal w/salary in $4-to-5 mil range
— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) July 2, 2014
If you need a break from all of the free agency news, take a few minutes to read Cavs:The Blog writer Robert Attenweiler over at the Triangle Offense blog. He wrote about how the first Adam Silver led draft compared with the David Stern led drafts of the past.
If Stern’s Drafts were WWE, Silver’s was the Hallmark Channel. The NBA now really is where caring happens.
I definitely dont want to pay Hayward a max deal especially before lebron makes up his mind. Regardless of the fact that espn never even says the cavs when talking teams he could go to I think we are a frontrunner to get him so we need to make a move prob involing love so we would lose waiters tt and picks and I think thats the best team lebron can go to
Maybe all of these rumors are leaked by the Cavs to get LeBron to return a phone call and set up a real meeting with us? Reports are that Wade and Bosh have no idea what LeBron wants to do and that after the “Big 3 Lunch,” Wade and Bosh discussed what the team would look like without LeBron. If that’s the case, and LeBron has any sliver of common sense, maybe Cleveland is a lot higher on his list than people originally thought. Why? Because I honestly don’t think his reputation can handle going to a third team that… Read more »
Great post, Gordon. Since Hayward is a transitional free agent there is a 3 day period that Utah has to match it. So if the Cavs make a $14 mil offer they tie up their cap money and can’t pursue other high dollar free agents for 3 days. I have no idea why they would make the offer before they exhaust their attempts at other free agents. After July 10th many players will have signed – after which you can offer Hayward a deal. Of course, you bring Hayward in now to find out the interest level . . .… Read more »
If you don’t sign Hayward until other SF free agents have signed you give Utah no choice but to match. They aren’t likely to let Hayward go but if they see a bargain SF in UFA they are more likely to let him go than if there is no chance of signing one even comparable.
Other teams may throw an offer sheet at Hayward that he signs, as well.
Then what so we do? We go into the season with the current roster unless we then start working trade channels.
I agree, although Im sure some of it is DG not wanting to wait on Lebron again…at all.
An offer wasn’t actually announced yet. If they do offer him a near-max contact I get why. They are running out of years with cap room and Lebron is a long shot at best. Hayward seems to be an ideal fit as a second or third option in Blatt’s system with his passing ability and shooting range. He’ll no longer be a teams top option and will draw less attention on offense so his percentages should improve. I do like the possibility of no longer running out lineups with 3 players under 6’4.” From the Lebron pipe dream front, Miami… Read more »
In February, Hayward was asked by jazzfanatical.com to name his favorite and least favorite NBA cities. He picked Miami and Phoenix as his preferred spots because of the warmth and sun. At the other end? “Since I’ve been in the league, probably Cleveland,” he said. “Cleveland to me is like Gotham City. It’s, like, so dreary, and just, I don’t know, and then ever since LeBron left, I mean, the fans, they’re starting to pick up a little bit more, but I remember my rookie year, there was hardly anybody there.” Actually Gordon, the Cavs were 2nd in home attendance… Read more »
Big deal. If he wants to come to Cleveland now, who freaking cares how he answered a question about his least favorite NBA city.
Ive lived in this ciity all my life. Not “around” this city, or in some burb a few miles from the city…I am a #Clevelandkid, born right off Woodhill Ave at Booth Memorial. Any person, media outlet, or scrub NBA’er who helps perpetrate the ridiculous notion that this city is any worse than any other mid western mid-market city can eat a ****. If you’re not from here, or don’t get offended by random shots at us, thats you. Im not taking em, sorry.
Potential sign and trade ofnDeng/Hawes to the Clips for Crawford
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources–jamal-crawford-seeking-contract-extension-with-clippers-or-future-teams-023116736.html
I didn’t realize Crawford’s been in the NBA 14 years.
Crawford is the exact type of player I wouldn’t want to see tie up our cap space…he’s not getting any better, he could break down any minute, and won’t be an asset (besides an expiring contract) as his contract winds down. I’d much prefer to see 14M spent in Gordon than 11-12M on Crawford.
Couldn’t agree more, Pedro.
If Dion Waiters was a free agent for another team, the Cavs would be considering a max contract offer.
Which makes him a valuable trade chip if they want to approach it that way.
I may have been lost in a “time machne ” the last month—–whatever happened to the rumor that we were going to pursue brooke lopez / Brooklyn—-did I miss something ?
Well, he’s not a free agent so the only way we could pursue him would be through a trade with Brooklyn – I haven’t seen that speculated anywhere.
Officially lost the Damjan Rudez sweepstakes:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/02/report-pacers-reach-terms-with-european-sharpshooter-damjan-rudez/
Dang Pacers keep stealing our guys today!
Terry Pluto suggested Waiters could be part of a sign and trade for Hayward. Giving up Waiters for the right to offer Hayward a huge deal? No thank you.
I don’t want to lose Waiters, but if the organization likes Hayward and wants him here I would rather deal some of our younger pieces plus Jack in a sign and trade so that we can maintain cap space this year. We won’t have it next year with KI getting max. Bringing in Hayward and not moving our young pieces creates a huge long jam at the 1-3 spots: Kyrie, Dion, Jack, Wiggins, Hayward, Karasev, Delly. I would rather move a piece and free up cap space than have 6 young guys who can’t all get minutes needed to develop… Read more »
I am a big Waiters fan, but with Wiggins they should trade him. I actually think Waiters will make an All Star game.
I disagree. Plenty of minutes to go around for 3 guards, especially as Wiggins can slide to SF at times. If Jack/Delly/Karasev have to split the remainder, that’s fine by me. I just think signing Hayward for the max or close to it is highly questionable in the first place. Giving up Waiters to do so would be insane.
Waiters is a starter. Wiggins is a 2. Or that is what is intended by the CAVS for him to be.
Ideally we keep waiters and use him as a backup PG. Can also use him at the 2 (obviously) with kyrie and Wiggins at the 3. Bringing in Hayward with another shooter really can open up the court in a revamped Catt paced offense the waiters and kyrie should really thrive in.
I really like Hayward, I hope they give him an attractive offer. He moves and passes well, shoots well and has an infectious energy when he plays.
Then if we can move Jack for a big man to rotate with Zeller and Andy, that would be great.
… Like Hawes.
Because Delly is restricted next season I think.
Ah, thanks. For some reason I thought he was an RFA this year
On what planet does a rookie come in and start for a supposed playoff team?
Irving, Waiters, Hayward, Thompson, Varejao
Delly, Kerasiv/Felix/Wiggins Bennett, Zeller.
Those would be the lineups.
Kawhi Leonard came in and, although he didn’t start day 1 for the spurs, he started late in the season and in their playoff games his rookie year. Granted we are not the spurs, by any means, so I see your point. But I think there is something to be said about 1. decreasing the time that Kyrie and Dion are on the floor together (for both of their benefits, regardless of whether or not there is a rift) 2. Having Dion in a familiar role as 6th man extraordinaire and 3. Giving Kyrie a defensive minded player in the… Read more »
If the front office and coaching staff feel like Dion is better running the 2nd team than being run on the 1st team that is a decision they will make. I don’t know what other people are meaning but I don’t mean that Wiggins is going to just be better than every other G/F we have from day one but I think he could flow with KI better.
I really see a mainly Dion and Hayward court presence with Wiggins spelling each of ten so he is getting plenty of minutes.
As much as I hate it Jack probably gets the nod over Delly. I don’t think it’s justified and would probably change through the season but at the jump, I hate it but I think it’s true.
The hope is Jack is traded.
Why haven’t we offered Delly a 4 year 10 million yet?
So, understanding that Andy is getting old (and expensive), we definitely have to look towards the future for Center. I know a lot of people are high on Hawes, and I would be if he could play defense or score in the post. I think a stretch 5 who loves to pass is going to be great in Blatt’s system, but gotta have some D and post presence. So if not Hawes, should we sit tight with Andy and Tyler or are there any other good options out there? Preferably with some shot blocking ability.
There aren’t many good options. The market for centers this offseason is extremely lacking. Some of the most noteworthy candidates: Unrestricted: Emeka Okafor, Chris Andersen, Greg Oden, Ed Davis (maybe more of a PF), Pau Gasol, Jordan Hill (maybe more of a PF), Chris Kaman, Ryan Hollins (JUST KIDDING), Jermaine O’Neal, Dejuan Blair (undersized) Restricted: Greg Monroe So yeah, it’s slim pickings in the frontcourt. It was a good season for Gortat to be on the market – lack of available centers may have really driven up his price to the 5 yr, $60M fully guaranteed contract he got with… Read more »
Working on on a trade article that proposes Jarret Jack for Bismack Biyambo, because, like you said, it’s slim pickings.
That I like. You can only keep 15, and JJ is pretty near the bottom in most of our lists! I have not had a chance to see BB.
Would Charlotte take that trade?
They need another guard, and they already have Jefferson, McRoberts, Zeller, and Vonleh. BB seems redundant.
Just spitballing here but: If Hayward becomes a Cav, you’ve got Hayward/Wiggins/Karasev bouncing between the 2-3. I don’t think Dion’s going to be happy seeing his minutes cut to 20-25 a game. Given the coexistance issue between Kyrie & Dion, and the Cavs have clearly chosen Kyrie, it would seem that Dion is the odd man out. The Sixers have two young rim protectors (Noel and Embiid). They have absolutely nothing at SG. And Dion grew up in Philly. Just sayin’…. How I’d play it: play Dion heavy minutes early in the year, as he starts to break out (as… Read more »
I wish they had not made that trade. Price, Harper, and Johnson would have been the best 3 guard combo of all time, to go along with Brad and Hot Rod.
Trading Jack to keep Delly as a full time backup is risky. I don’t know if Delly is consistent enough offensively. He might regress with more minutes.
The future at C might just be in next years talent laden ‘big’ draft.
The Pickins are slim this year either through trade or through FA. Next years draft class is loaded at the top with bigs and we are going to have a couple first rounders to play with. I would love to see them sign Hayward, resign Hawes and be about good to go.
Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Tristan
Andy
Jack
Waiters
Karasev
Bennett
Hawes
With Delly and Zeller as the 12 man. I like that team this year and I love them in the future.
I don’t know if the Patriot comes back to be a backup, but that is seriously a solid 12-deep roster!
I am hoping the cavs brass “has something up their sleeve ” letting miles go for that price is a mistake—-also so would trading waiters for anything less than bringing love here ( for more than 1 yr ) be a mistake—let’s see what he does with different coaching /stlye of play–plus we don’t have to rush into any contract negotiations with dion at present either —–I keep hearing t.t. ‘s and dion’s name brought up as trade bait —-the negative to this —-IS THEY WERE BOTH THE # 4 PICK IN THE DRAFT —ARE WE GOING TO GET THAT… Read more »
Oh, the irony of folks using advanced stats to defend their positions on Delly and Miles. Smh…
Advanced NBA stats: 100x more reliable than advanced college stats.
Ha! Proof? Draft raters keep getting better and better in their predictive quality.
Like how they predicted Thomas Robinson was going to be one of the best players from his draft class.
Pelton’s WARP system rated Thomas Robinson 19th in the 2012 draft- right about where he rated Wiggins in this draft.
Only one “advanced” stat per se, thank you very much, the others ore pretty basic stats. And where’s the irony? Now if you said “desperation”, I would disagree, but at least see your point. I honestly don’t see any irony. Unless its that Delly’s contributions are much more qualitative than quantitative, thus using stats to underlie his contribution is ironic, is that what you meant by irony?
The obvious irony is using advanced stats to determine to the worth of a player when pretty much 95% of the commenters dismissed those same kinds of stats when I used them to seriously question the Wiggins pick. See? Irony.
I had never read your comments or people’s reaction to them. I guess there’s a little irony there. I still think its more of an irony to try to quantify the contributions of a player who is primarily qualitatively productive, but I guess there’s some irony in people dismissing your stats and not dismissing mine. But I think most of that really just boils down to the fact that an indictment of Wiggins is obviously going to be more divisive than an endorsement of Delly.
I know what you’re getting at and you’re wrong. The same types of advanced stats just quoted to support Andy and Delly are the same ones that you ignored. I’m not going to bother quoting them since you didn’t bother considering them the first time…you see what you want I see.
@Pedro, I didn’t see any two-man stats that related to college players so I really don’t know what you’re talking about…
“Same types” =/= “exact same”
I also hate to see CJ go, but you can only keep 15 guys.
Hayward looks to be a central piece on a team that can win for a long time.
Cavs let Miles walk for $4.5 million a year and they’ll probably be offering Hayward at least three times that. I just want to throw up from the bad decisions the Cavs front office is making.
Did you steal Col’s bottle?
In this Market, C.J. for $5-$6 million is an absolute bargain.
He’s a bargain because he was hurt for half the year and in decline
Man, CJ is going to be a great fit on that team too. I’m sad to see him leave.
Can’t believe they got him so cheap compared to what others are getting. The NBA is insane right now. C.J. signed for less than what Jodie Meeks did. Ugh.
It sounds like they are not offering Hayward the max, so it’s not quite as bad as it looks. But Miles’ price tag is indeed stunningly low.
Source that they are not planning on offering him the max? So far I’ve only seen the opposite.
I’ve seen rumors for both. Let’s not hit the panic button just yet.
Amico is one source. And there were others.
Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO 3h
Told by Cavs source details reported about meeting with Jazz free agent Gordon Hawyard have been “greatly exaggerated.
Do we know that the Cavs didn’t offer 5.5 Mill or so and he didn’t want to sign it? Maybe he wanted a change for an immediate contender?
Just because CJ was willing to sign with Indiana for that low doesn’t mean we could have got him for that much…I say good for him that he gets play for a top-2 eastern conference team. Obviously I’d prefer he stayed a cav, but how good would it feel to see CJ help Indiana knock Miami out of the playoffs next year (I know- that’s a long shot)?
Didn’t you like the Jack signing. Your opinion lost all value. 4.5 on a contender means 5.5 here minimum. Maybe 6.
I’m sure Blatt & Griffin see a lot more than shooting percentages when they consider Heyward. He’s a synergy player – loaded with intangibles. He’ll move without the ball – and hit other guys that are moving without the ball. Isn’t that the type of player San Antonio courts? He plays hard to win. And what is he – 24? He’s still getting better. And he’s from Indiana, the state next store. A rotation of Hayward, Wiggins, and Waiters at the 2-3 spot will be devastating. Who out there was calling for “wing-play” a week ago? Are you backing out… Read more »
Whatever we do, I just hope that we keep Delly. And that he gets an increase in minutes. The kid is like a mini-Andy and his shot started to come on towards the end of last year too. Plus I love how he pushes the floor. Also, I just read that we’re offering Hayward $15 million. I don’t get it, his shooting percentages aren’t that great, and I don’t see how he fits in the rotation unless it means getting rid of Dion and putting Wiggins at the 2, which I really hope we don’t do. I’d much rather re-sign… Read more »
Wiggins is a rookie. There will be plenty of minutes for him to back up the 2 and 3. If he starts, Waiters comes off the bench like he has done so often in his career so far.
Having 4 guys with substantial upside to play 3 positions is not a bad thing. If Waiters breaks out this year, like I believe he will, then if you feel there’s a logjam you move him for a big. It’s not a difficult thing to do.
Trading Waiters before he breaks out for $0.50 on the dollar is something bad franchises do.
I agree, trading Waiters right now is something bad franchises would do, but isn’t overpaying a guy with an inconsistent shooting touch also something bad franchises do? So would the lineup, in your guess, read:
1. Irving
2. Wiggins/Waiters (whoever wins it out)
3. Hayward
4. TT
5. Andy
With Delly, Waiters/Wiggins, Karasev, AB, and Tyler as the next unit? (Yes, I love Delly so much I would be willing to make him the immediate backup to Kyrie and move Jack for some cap relief)
Who plays the 40-50 games when AV is out injured?
TZ, SH if we resign him, the 6’11” rook we just drafted…and seriously, what else does your crystal ball see? Did it see Andy missing 50 games last season? Maybe you need an upgrade…
I don’t think paying a young SF just entering prime years $1-3M a year over “value” is something bad franchises do. Maybe last year when we didn’t really have an identity or a true “core.” But this year is different. And this franchise is different. Sadly, (if we sign) Hayward might be the best FA signing the Cavs have had… ever? Think about it. At some point we need to realize that no top tier FAs are going to come here. And if we are going to limit ourselves to paying market value (and not paying for potential), then we… Read more »
Delly? Are you crazy??? The hope is you get enough talent so a marginal NBA player like him does not get any minutes or even make the team.
Other than CJ Miles, he was probably our best defensive guard last year.
Cols’ you’ve had too much to drink. Stop talking. Delly was one of the top rookies in the league in terms of two way play last year, and Delly/Waiters was the Cavs best two man lineup.
But the next best was Waiters/Andy. In fact, iirc, 3 of the top 4 2-man units contained Waiters. So, it has a lot more to do with Dion then Delly. Keep it real.
Delly was fantastic at setting up Dion — much better than Kyrie. Not sure what your point is here.
My point, which seems obvious, is that Dion worked well with others not just Delly. I agree Delly worked well with Dion but it was more about Dion then Delly. I was encouraging you not to over-rate Delly in this instance…
“Cols’ you’ve had too much to drink. Stop talking.”
BAHAHAHA
And Delly and Andy actually led the Cavs in per game +/- for the year. They each had a per game +/- of 1. CJ Miles had a per game +/- of 0.9. No other significant contributor had a positive +/- for the cavs. And while it is true that some of Delly’s time came at meaningless points of the game, he still played well enough to be 19th in ppg for all rookies, 8th in apg, 2nd in three pt % (.368) (he could also be 3rd if you count CJ McCollum who only played 30 something games), 15th… Read more »
You are clueless.
Agree with Cols on this. Delly is great if he plays 10-15 minutes per night, tops. If he’s a regular guy getting 20-30 minutes per night, we’re screwed.
He’s a great backup/rotational guy to have on the cheap. He’s not a foundational piece. Let’s not overrate the guy.
I’m falling somewhere in the middle. Cols is severely underrating Delly. However, I don’t think he should see a whole lot of increase in minutes. His value is in change of pace and energy. Coming off the bench for 15 minutes and giving a much needed boost in energy and leading the offense of the second unit is probably his ceiling. If he can become a consistent 40% 3 point shooter, he might come close to 20 minutes. He’s a great backup/rotation guy, but the more minutes he plays against top level talent (starters), the more his deficiencies will surface.
I like the Hayward deal if it happens. This is Cleveland. I’ve been holding onto hope that we can lure a big name FA for years. It isn’t happening. LeBron isn’t coming. Carmelo isn’t coming. These guys want to be in big markets. $15M a year for Hayward is overpaying, but when you consider he’d probably get 12-14M regardless, it really isn’t. At the end of the day, we have to bring in top level talent. Hayward is only 24. He’s just entering his prime. He scored 20+ points 22 times last year. He dropped 37 on OKC. In a… Read more »
If Cleveland wants to get ballsy, trade Waiters, three future #1’s, and TT for Kevin Love.
PG – Irving
SG – Wiggins
SF – Hayward
PF – Love
C – AV
Aussi, Jack, Bennett, Zeller, Karasev off the bench.
That’s an ECF contender this year.
You can’t put AV at the center position without telling us who plays the 40-50 games that he misses.
Don’t know why you’re so down on Andy, he missed 17 games this past season, he’s a loyal guy who plays with great energy, and who crashes the boards. If his minutes are managed well, he can easily play close to the whole season. Limit his minutes and give Tyler more to allow him to develop. Andy is a leader on the team and a mentor. He’s been a fan favorite for years. Seriously, why so down on the wild thing?
Cols is down on Andy because he doesn’t have any highlight reel dunks. Therefore, he can’t possibly be any good to anyone.
Wiggins, though….HAVE YOU SEEN THAT GUY JUMP? Automatic star!!
Free agency just started. I have no idea who else would play the 5 besides a combination of Zeller and TT.
TT at CENTER?… He’s an undersized 4…
If you look at Hayward’s Hollinger stats compared to Waiters there is no comparison; Hayward blows Waiters away. Look at the % of Haywards possessions that end in an assist…he is #10 among SG and Waiters is #43. I think this is a fit issue for the new coach.
That also means that the Lebron pipe dreams can finally be put to rest.
Not so fast. See my prior comment. I am not letting go of my LeBron pipe dream!!
So you’re going to pay Hayward $15mm to play 15 minutes a night behind Lebron?
Ain’t happening.
Not to mention LeBron wants a max contact. He isn’t going to come to Cleveland for less.
I’m not advocating getting both, but LeBron and Hayward could easily co-exist since Bron can play 3/4 and Hayward can play 2/3…
Definitely not over. I Actually think this a ploy to make Lebron hurry up. We know Utah is going to match but want to send LeBron the message that we aren’t going to wait forever. I Actually think the cavs are the favorite to land Lebron st this point but know can know because Lebron doesn’t know. Him demanding a max is a excuse for him to leave
I am not a fan of blowing our cap space on Hayward. HOWEVER, I heard some rumors that Hayward deal could involve a sign and trade if Utah doesn’t want to match the big dollars. What if we offload something like Waiters, Jack, Brendan Hayward for Hayward in sign and trade, and then offer LeBron the opportunity to join Kyrie, Wiggins, Hayward. That is a pretty good young nucleus to sell him on. You still have AV, Zeller, TT, Bennett upfront. I hate to lose my boy Dion, but if you are bringing in Hayward, I am not sure how… Read more »
We aren’t getting LeBron. He wants a max contract and if we do that S&T and bring on Hayward’s contract, we can’t afford to give LeBron one as well.
There’s absolutely zero reason to trade Dion Waiters. Why would we? Why on earth would we trade a guy who proved he can be a 20 ppg scorer for Hayward when we can just sign Hayward ourselves?
Hayward: PLUS: I’m OK with paying him max money. Yes, it’s overpaying, but as noted by others, opportunities to sign a player that is perfect as a 2nd-3rd option, and does a little bit of everything, are rare. I’d be OK with it. MINUS: Signing Hayward to $10mm plus- in addition to the Wiggins pick- MUST mean that Waiters is going to be dealt. There aren’t enough minutes between Waiters/Wiggins/Hayward/Karasev to keep them all. Now that the Cavs are committed to Kyrie, I think Hayward definitely compliments him better (Griffin’s “fit” theory). But I still think Dion is going to… Read more »
Waiters, Wiggins, and Hayward can all get big minutes. Karasev is unlikely to see much run this year anyway.
I’d keep Dion and have him come off the bench. His value is not as high as it could be in a trade right now, and you can still control him for 3 more years.
So trade Dion Waiters who had better per 48 numbers than Bradley Beal and Klay Thompson post-ASB last year, because we want to get Karasev more minutes? Not sure that’s a winning move.
Haha GS will have Speights, Waltton, and Livingston. 3/4s of the Herculoids.
missed the boat ( thank you chris grant ) on Livingston should have signed him long term after last year —if hawes does not resign—need to go after frye—( it bothers me that we probably won’t get anything from our 2 rentals ” from last year —deng / hawes )—-can’t believe the money being thrown at some of these so called ” average ” players —-it is a players/ agents market
Livingston is a liabitlity in the playoffs. He can’t shoot at all. He’s an MKG type of shooter from outside the paint. Yuck. I’m glad we didn’t keep him,
I agree with Cols. He is a nice player, never more than a backup. And, can’t shoot at all.
Will be perfect in GS where they’ll run a triangle style offense for him like they did in Cle, and stick him in the post. Heck Luke Walton is an assitant there. Also, bench players who can play three positions are valuable.
Sure, they are valuable. But I think the lamenting over losing a backup PG who can’t play in the playoffs because he can’t shoot at all should be over 2 years after he left.
Depends how you use him. If you station him outside the arc, sure.
But if you use him to post up all other PGs that give up 3-4 inches, where he can muscle his way into the paint….
Cause anytime you can pay $15 million a year for a guy who shoots 41% from the field and 30% from three, you have to do it.
Yep. This is a dumb move. Hopefully the Jazz will match.
Admittedly his shooting percentages were down this past year, but look at the year before. He’s capable of shooting much bettter; this past year, the Jazz placed the offensive burden solely on his shoulders as they facilitated the offense through him. They wanted to see how he would fare under that burden as one of their young cornerstones – they had nothing to lose as they weren’t trying to win last year anyway. Hayward wouldn’t be asked to take on that kind of role in Cleveland.
“…pay $15 Million a year for a guy who shoots 41% …and 30% from three”…
No, he “shot” 41% and 30% from three LAST SEASON.. one season. This was as “the guy”, the “alpha dog”…. He won’t be that guy in Cleveland. His career stats are 44% and 37%, with two of the seasons shooting better than 40% from 3-point range. I don’t know about a max deal, but something close WOULD give the cavs a good core of young guards to build around.
Here’s the thing, in the coming years, the Cavs will have to decide on TT, Dion, and Bennett when it comes to the cap. Pencil in Wiggins for a while too.
As our young core grows, you’re only going to have a few opportunities to add key pieces. I think Hayward could be a great fit. Kyrie needs locked-in running mates.
It might take the max to get Hayward and I’d be fine with it. Miles will sign for a contender or team that will give him a defined role, more $. Frye is 31, pass.
TT?? I don’t think they have to worry about TT and the cap.
What is TT really worth, 5-7 a year? I’m a zero fan of his game. But, I think we’re going to end up doing the same thing with Tristan we did with JJ Hickson b/c you can’t pay a bunch of money for a decent PF.
Hayward has upside. Lance Stephenson can’t shoot and he wants 11+ a year. Batum is making 14+. I think that’s the market for Hayward.
Btw, from FtS:
With Irving’s deal kicking in next year and potentially taking up 30% of the cap due to the Rose Rule (plus potential new deals for players such as Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson), this could be the last summer that the Cavs have this kind of cap space to spend on roster upgrade
Offering a non-max type of guy max money is dumb. Don’t be dumb Griffin!!!
I disagree, usually it is, but the Cavs only have so many opportunities. You can’t trade for a guy like KLove because he won’t sign here…no one will.
You need to build a young core, which we are doing, and add key pieces any other way you can. Even if 14 a year for Hayward is a 4 a year overpay, you do it.
Exactly, Keith. Cleveland will always have to overpay in free agency to land players of the caliber of Hayward or better.
Feeling the need to throw $14M at Hayward, a decent young player, but certainly not a max-contract type of guy is pretty solid evidence that you aren’t building a good core.
I think there’s substantial upside in signing Hayward. He’s a Batum-like player. You’re just paying an extra 3 million a year.
You can go ahead and sign CJ Miles for 6-7 a year, maybe more after the BGordon and Meeks deals…oh wait, he’ll be in his 9th season and we just HAD him the past two years.
Miles just went for 4.5 a year, 4 yrs. not 6-7+
To a contender though. That’s like 5.5 for a team not contending.
You’ve got that backwards…
Because we have a solid young core, they are on rookie contracts and all underpaid. But as those rookie contracts run out soon, we are running out if time to add any quality pieces through free agency…
Right, Pedro.
Yeah, Kojo. CJ went for 4.5 to a contender. Big difference between teams.
How else do you get people to come to Cleveland besides more money? Lol
No on Hayward. The price it’s going to take to get him from Utah is too steep. Yes on Miles, but for low dollars. Yes on Hawes. Yes on Frye.
Try to trade Jack. Try to trade Andy for something useful so we don’t have to deal with his always injured crap again.