Dissecting Cavs-Warriors
2015-12-31It’s pretty common for sports fans to take their shots at ESPN. Despite delivering both detailed coverage and great analysis of sporting events around the world, and the athletes who participate in them. It’s not uncommon for the worldwide leader to draw criticism from multiple corners, and not without reason. For every Marc Stein or Zach Lowe who truly have the pulse of the sport they cover, there seems to  a Stephen A. Smith or Skip Bayless who seemingly use hot takes just two get a reaction from the masses, even if these takes are sometimes wildly off base.
One of the people who really does great work for ESPN is Ben Alamar, the Director of Sports Analytics at ESPN. Alamar has worked for NFL and NBA teams, including the Cavaliers and Oklahoma City Thunder, and does a terrific job of sharing his information in a fan-friendly way. There’s no doubt that Alamar brings an unbiased perspective to his analysis and is simply trying to share what his analytics tell him about various teams and the potential matchups they may face.
That doesn’t mean that what Alamar’s numbers tell him isn’t up for debate. He recently published a pieced titled “How Kyrie, Cavs Can Beat Warriors“. In this piece Alamar discusses some of the strategies the Cavaliers could use to upset the Warriors if the two teams were to meet again in the NBA Finals. The strategies Alamar advocates for the Cavaliers focusing on include moving the ball, preventing the Warriors from getting their outside shooting, going, and crashing the glass to create extra possessions. These strategies are pretty much common sense, but it’s the odds that Alamar give the Cavaliers on upsetting Golden State that is the most sobering part of the story.
Without giving away all of the details of Alamar’s story, he projects the Warriors as extremely heavy favorites in a series against the Cavaliers, even with a fully healthy roster. It’s no surprise that Golden State would be the favored team, they’re the defending champions and are off to a historical start to this season. What is surprising is how slim of a chance Alamar gives the Cavaliers of pulling off the victory, even with a fully healthy roster. This is the part that is highly debatable.
It’s understandable that Alamar looks at Irving’s numbers and, as impressive as they are, doesn’t see how one man can make a significant impact towards stopping the juggernaut that is the Golden State Warriors. It’s not even a surprise that Alamar doesn’t see a significant change in the Cavaliers’ chances by factoring in both Irving and Iman Shumpert, a very good defenders, but below average offensive player. When you look at it in terms of adding adding numbers, few players will make the kind of difference needed to defeat a championship-caliber team.
But sometimes analytics don’t tell the entire story, and that could very well be the case here. Besides being a transformative offensive player, Irving is also one of the biggest factors in creating a truly balanced offense for the Cavaliers. Even more than LeBron James, Irving can truly score from anywhere on the floor, whether it’s from three, at the rim, from the free throw line, or even in mid-range. His handle—arguably the best in the NBA—makes him almost impossible to guard one-on-one. The problem for other teams is that they cannot double team Irving without compromising their defense in another area. Irving’s presence potentially forces the other team to have to guard LeBron James and Kevin Love one-on-one. They would also have to leave someone such as J.R. Smith or Tristan Thompson open. Considering the Smith is a good three-point shooter with no qualms about firing away, and Thompson is one of the better roll men in the league, you’re still dealing with a pick your poison situation to some extent. Richard Jefferson, Matthew Dellavedova, and possibly even Iman Shumpert are good enough players to make teams pay at shooting guard in Smith’s stead, and hopefully Timofey Mozgov can get his game back to where it was last year on the offensive end as he backs up Thompson and Love. Either way, Irving’s ability to command the double team in a way that Dellavedova and Mo Williams simply cannot is something that does not seemed to be measured well by Alamar’s system. It takes into account the jump from Williams and Dellavedova to Irving, but not the probable uptick in efficiency for the other players Irving shares the court with. In regards to Shumpert, his effect on the Cavaliers’ perimeter defense is obvious, but it must be pointed out that he is not nearly the outside shooter that Jefferson, Williams, Dellavedova, or Smith are.
Alamar also does not account for how the two teams matchup against one another. There is plenty of evidence that the overall success two teams had during the regular season is a much better predictor than when they played one another in the regular season for how a playoff series between the two will play out. That being said, the history of the NBA playoffs is littered with examples of the allegedly inferior team pulling off the upset because of it’s unique matchup advantages against the favored team.
Now, it’s hard to conclusively say that the Warriors are a matchup problem for the Cavaliers. After all, Golden State is a 6-3 against the Cavs over the past two seasons, regular season and playoffs combined. But nearly all of the games have come down to the wire, and when both teams have their big three—James, Irving, and Love for the Cavs, Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Klay Thompson for the Warriors—healthy, they have split the two games they have played, the Warriors’ 89-83 victory on Christmas and the Cavaliers’ 110-99 victory last season in Cleveland. Even in their loss on Christmas, the Cavaliers were the first team to hold the Warriors to under 90 points at home since the New York Knicks beat them 89-84 on March 30… of 2014. While these are admittedly small sample sizes, the Cavaliers have shown in both the playoffs and the regular season the ability to dictate the pace of the game against the Warriors.
Countering the Warriors’ “lineup of death” would be incredibly difficult for the Cavaliers, but may not be impossible. A lineup of Irving, Dellavedova, James, Love and Thompson could present the Warriors with enough problems of their own. Dellavedova is fast establishing himself as arguably the Cavaliers’ best two-way guard, and his physical defense on Curry and Thompson combined with his ability to space the floor alongside the Cavaliers’ big three could make things difficult for Golden State. Love and Thompson both bring various strengths and weaknesses to this matchup. Love’s lack of physicality on defense would undoubtedly be an issue, especially because he would likely have to chase Harrison Barnes around the perimeter, but he could also destroy Barnes on the block as well as on the boards. The Warriors would likely ignore Thompson unless he has the ball at the rim, but he does have as good a chance at guarding Green as any player on the roster, and along with Love could destroy the Warriors on the glass.
The Golden State Warriors are an amazing basketball team off to a historic start. They deserved all of the accolades they have received, and are the rightful favorites to repeat as NBA champions. That being said, the strengths of the Cleveland Cavaliers, combined with the way they have played against Golden State the past two seasons, points to them having a real chance of pulling of the upset if they face the Warriors again this June.
Forget the Warriors, it’s going to be Cavs vs Spurs for the finals.
I believe you are correct. I think we beat the snot out of the Warriors in January, and then the Spurs take them in six or seven in the WCF. I’m more scared of the Spurs because they match up better against us than the Warriors. LMA will abuse Love, Leonard has proven he can slow LBJ, and Duncan is solid defensively against any big we throw at them. Our only real advantage is Kyrie against Parker. They will be a very tough team to beat in the finals. Very Tough.
LMA isn’t going to abuse anyone at this stage of his career, launching 20 footers. Him and Love cancel each other out. Leonard is by far their best player nowadays, and a beast defensively, but it’s tough to lock down Lebron with the way he passes the ball.
What the Spurs have going for them is they truly play team basketball, offensively as well as defensively. Precision offense that can make you look stupid, and start pointing fingers at each other. Would be an interesting series.
I most concerned with someone like David West killing us. These mid range bailout guys always seem to kill us in the playoffs. I still have nightmares of Brandon Bass.
I agree about West. Spurs picked up two very good PF-types, both of whom are strongly motivated because they are on a legit contender…West even took a huge pay cut just to join the Spurs. I’d be as concerned about the Spurs as I’d be about GSW.
Lebron has ben so good at passing, reboun ding and scoring in the paint. Once his jumper gets going he’s going to destroy all worlds.
“LeBron destroys all worlds.” I hear that’s the next Star Wars movie.
For real tho…he really would time warp back three years in effectiveness if he found his shot
Guinness and champagne. 50/50 yum
Is this a courtesy alert for impending “inebriated Cols”?
Yeppers. But i won’t be posting tonight very mcyh
So C:tB writers, are we going to get another updated article about possible moves for the Cavs with our BHTE? You know, one that includes current NBA climates and the various position different teams are in?
Cavs don’t need anything at all.
I don’t think there’s a whole lot they can get for it at this point…
The key thing with the Cavs is that, over the past 2 seasons, we have only seen a 40 game stretch where they were fully healthy and in rhythm. That was the period after the Shump/JR/Mozzy deals last year. They went 33-3 during that stretch with Love, Kyrie, and LBJ playing, and something like 36-6 overall. As long as the Cavs get back to that form by Spring, then they are every bit as good as the Warriors, with (IMO) better big men. I really am not worried about the team at all. They have cruised to the 1 seed… Read more »
If they only had Wiggins…
(sorry Hot Sauce… pushing buttons for auld lang syne…;)
he’s terrible. so glad rhet trades
That comment wasn’t for you Cols… it was an inside joke between me and Hot Sauce…
I like it EG :) Nothing like beating the Wiggins horse!
I will say that the Wiggins trade looks as good as ever these days. Wiggins has regressed across the board this year, except for in shots attempted. He has lower FG%, lower 3P%, lower assists, lower rebounds, lower steaks, lower FT%.
Yeah… he’s also been much worse than expected on defense… which was supposed to be his strong suit…
The “The Delly is fat and out-of-shape” storyline by Cols is a 2015 fav!
I’m so glad he got into shape this year. His game is much improved and hopefully he doesn’t have to be hospitilized after one game and shoot like crap in the Finals.
He’s in worse shape this year, and he’s one of the Cavs best players. I hope he gets even fatter.
In medical news from 2015, doctors have tried but failed yet again to establish a link between being out of shape and becoming severely dehydrated.
It’s already 2016 here in my country. Happy New Year C:tB
Happy New Year RJ! What country are you in?
From the Philippines man..
LeBron is probably the most underrated player in the NBA right now. All he does is carry team after team to the Finals but people want to talk about the next new thing instead of how great he is.
I wouldn’t say Lebron is carrying the team. A lot of guys have played solid minutes: Love, Delly, JR, Jefferson, and Mo at times. Lebron is having a solid but not great year, given the number of Lebron fanboys out there – how can he be classified as underrated? There are already rumblings that the Cavs haven’t surrounded Lebron with enough talent yet again.
Totally agree Cols. I saw an article on Big Lead this morning asking if Jimmy Butler should be MVP. LOLOLOL. I mean, if you are moving away from Steph, how do you got to Butler and not LBJ (or like 8 other dudes)? It is weird how little people talk about LBJ these days. But I think it works in our favor – LBJ is feasting on it in his head. He knows if he gets to the Finals with a healthy roster he will win.
Do you have links to these rumblings, greyrat? I’m curious as to how any sane person can say that the Cavs haven’t surrounded LeBron with enough talent after they spent $300M to bring back everyone and add on with Mo and R.J.
The last blog post https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=39034
whomever Hardwood paroxysm is – not an analysis – but a rumble grumble about quality of the team assembled around James.
Not sure who else they could have put around him, short of not making the Wiggins for Love deal…
I don’t know if “underrated” is the right terminology… but “disregarded” or “disrespected” might be… LBJ has been crucified for his broken jumper ad nauseam this year and his leadership has been questioned… and it’s still only the last day of 2015. I hope he uses it all as fuel for the second half run he and this team are about to embark upon…
No one questions his leadership outside of a few Cavs fans who for some reason hate him even though he’s been the only good part of being a Cleveland Cavs fan for the past decade.
Any Cavs fan that hates James would be a very confused individual.
That’s not exactly true… I’ve heard plenty of haters out here in L.A. who aren’t Cavs fans who’ve questioned LBJ’s ability to lead his team this year… Especially with his treatment of Mozgov and his early season critical comments…
I’m not saying it’s valid, quite the opposite, but it’s not just a handful of Cavs fans…
Those people are really stupid. Every teammate, every coach, everyone who has been around LeBron has had nothing but good things to say.
You’ve talked to all of them I assume?
Oh my, you’ve done gone off the deep end yet again. He carried 2 Hall of Fame teammates to the finals w/Miami??? Hmmmm, no. And he carried/is carrying 2 of the top 15 players in the NBA to the finals??? I gotta go with hmmmm, no again.
Warriors just got their butts kicked by JJ Barea and a one legged Dirk Nowitzki. Take away Curry, and the Warriors turn back into pumpkins. They don’t like people saying they were lucky with health, but they were. When Delly Shut down Curry for two games, we won both games. But because he exhausted himself and we had no depth, we lost. If Delly is on Curry for 25 minutes a game, and Shump is on him for the other 25, the Warriors become quite pedestrian. They can’t guard LBJ, Love, and Irving at the same time. If both teams… Read more »
Delly didn’t shut down Curry, but he did slow him down. Shump is a much better defender and we will see more of Shump on him than Delly.
The good thing is that Delly is no longer fat.
He did shut down Curry for two games… go back and watch it again…
Curry had 26 pts, 5 rebounds,, and 6.3 assists per game while shooting 39% from 3. He didn’t come close to shuttin ghim down. Delly played one really good game and sucked the rest of the time.
He shut him down Game 2 (5-23, 2-13 from beyond the arc, for 19 pts) and for all but the last 2:45 of Game 3 (6-16, 3-8 from beyond the arc for 18 pts) before he exhausted himself… It was the most effective ANYONE has been defending Steph in the last 1.5 years…
In games 2 and 3, the Delly games, Curry averaged 23 points while shooting 35% overall and 32% from three, down from 49% and 44%, respectively, in the regular season.
If the Cavs have five healthy guards to rotate onto Curry, they have a decent chance of limiting him like that again. And if they can do it for a whole series, they have a decent chance of winning.
And curry toasted him the rest of the series.
After Delly was hospitalized for severe dehydration and never had the opportunity to recover fully, between the game schedule and cross-country travel, Curry played like his usual self.
Yep… he toasted a non-drafted backup who was forced into starting and playing 40 minutes per game in The Finals… but only after being shut down by him for a game and 3.75 quarters…
I hope our scouting team are keeping tapes of the Bucks and Mavs games.
^Why is this comment awaiting moderation??
The comment monster does not like the words “scouting team” ;)
So have no Curry for a game like the Mavs?
For whatever reason CtPB doesn’t want to see that the Cavs played the Warriors really well in GS with a less than healthy Irving and win if they don’t shoot like complete crap on wide open shots. The Cavs are better than the Warriros.
Did I say that? Meant that? Or whatever? Thing is if you saw the game… *note: it’s just 1 regular season game but if we could pick up things from that Mavs game is that.. Thompson and most notably Green are system dependent players. They thrive on that system that REVOLVES around Curry. And based in that one game where Curry sits, they put $h*t. That’s only one game sure,and in a series GS might be able to adjust, but again if you put things in perspective Green and Thompson are still suspect when more responsibilities are put on their… Read more »
I love how you can ‘what if’ your way to an absolute victory. Well what if GS would have had all their starters available (Barnes was out) or made their 3’s (they shot terrible outside as well) or what if they would have shot better overall (41%), or what if they wouldn’t have turned the ball over 5 more times than the Cavs??
What if the best team won.
It’s not just ‘CtPB’ that supposedly feels the Warriors are better…pretty much every rational person in the world feels that way. Doesn’t mean you automatically crown them the champion, that’s why you play the games. But I’m aware you’d rather not play the games, and just proclaim some team the best.
Well said, JoeyB… without Curry, the Mavs were able to spend all of their energy disrupting Donkey…
Well Curry is the big loss, but they were without Ezeli, Barnes and Barbosa as well. Be like the Cavs without Lebron, Shumpert, Thompson and Mo.
I’ll give you Barnes… but Ezeli and Barbosa are inconsequential… Barbosa may be the Mo equivalent, but Ezeli is not a Thompson equivalent…
Ezeli is having a good year so far. He only plays 20 mpg to TT’s 27, but per 100 poss. has better points, assists, blocks and steals, while TT has better rebounds and turnovers. Ezeli- ORtg 115 DRtg 99 and TT ORtg 118 DRtg 99. I’d say he compares closest to TT, maybe Mozzy if he were playing better. Either way he’s part of their 7 man rotation as was Barnes and Curry. I hate the Rockets, from Morey’s smugness, to wildly immature DHoward, and JHarden’s no D playing and especially his fake head bobbing to draw whistles on EVERY… Read more »
Yeah, hard to take away much from that Dallas game. 2.5 starters out (Ezeli has started quite a few games for them this year), including the MVP. It’d be like drawing conclusions about the Cavs from watching that Portland game. (Even though the Cavs weren’t really missing players in that one, but you get my point)
And, they got blown the hell out by Dallas… Mavs were up 30 at one point. Curry is still the straw that stirs the drink, and Dray, Klay and the rest are a lot less effective without him…
I fully agree. I just don’t think you can draw too many conclusions from the Dallas game, based on the number of players missing from GS and the way Dallas shot the ball (14-27 from 3). Curry in my mind, is the clear MVP the last 2 years. A clutch, high-volume, high percentage shooter from anywhere inside half-court. But where he’s underrated is how he creates for others just by being on the court. He’s like Kyle Korver for the Hawks, in that opposing teams go out of there way to try and cover him or take away part of… Read more »
I’m not surprised that Dallas had some success from deep… the Cavs would have had the same success if they were hitting their open threes on Christmas. I’ve watched a lot of the Warriors’ games this year, and for all of their success, one thing they still don’t do that well is close out on threes. Don’t disagree that Curry deserved to be the MVP last year, and is the clubhouse leader this year. He means a lot to that team’s success. Although he looks most human when teams force him off the three point line, making him put the… Read more »
How can anyone respond without any data of a healthy roster along with the new pieces that were added to the team? On the other side Warriors have an impressive record with stats to back up. So of course, predictions favor them. They are in the driver’s seat. Until then, Cavs have a lot of work ahead of them to answer the Golden State Warriors. That is just the way it is. I do believe it starts with Curry and Draymond Green. Cavs have been able to contain Curry and Thompson to a certain degree but not Green He gives… Read more »
^^^This. Put a tremendous amount of pressure on Curry. Non stop. BUT, put the same thing to Green. It’s extremely difficult but ain’t impossible. Shake the confidence of these two. A huge chunk of their great play is attributed to their confidence. Kill it early and show them they can’t get it back ever. Next time play them get extremely physical. Like the Bad Boy era Pistons. I don’t mind, we have able bodies. Make Draymond go iso. Shout on his face on every miss he makes. Taunt him. Make him feel that he’s not who he think he is.… Read more »
You can’t pressure both of them. As soon as you double Curry outside the arc, he gets it to Green who suddenly gets to run a mini 4 on 3 break, which obviously is near impossible to defend.
If we can recover quickly why not. It’s not like anyone can guard Curry one-on-one. Point is the pressure should be suffocating for 48 mins or more. You never give them even a small amount of hope. It can be done in my opinion tho it’s gonna be very exhausting physically and mentally.
Basketball analytics definitely does not tell the whole story. Of course the Cavs can and should beat the Warriors as along as we have our big three. That was obvious from last year’s finals and this year’s christmas game. I loved the baseball analytical revolution. But the other sports? I’m not sure what it’s told us in basketball except we should shoot threes from the corner or layups. But smart coaches had already figured this out without the maths. Even the Rockets, the supposed smart analytical team did what every other NBA team would do, get a couple of stars… Read more »
Noting that “Basketball analytics definitely does not tell the whole story” is of course a truth that no one would deny. I think the analytics revolution in basketball told us that many “stars” were not stars, just high volume chuckers. The analytics also show us that many mediocre players in the fans’ minds are actually stars. The Warriors are a freakish machine along the likes of which I don’t think we’ve seen for a long time. The Cavs can theoretically beat them in a 7 game series, but it is clear from any non-biased perspective that they are and should… Read more »
Oh please. The Warriors have been good for exactly 1.5 years. They aren’t some freakish machine. The 2013 Spurs would have killed them. Any of the Heat LeBron teams would have killed them. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers killed them. The Kobe-Gasol Lakers would have beat them. the Big three Celtics would’ve beat them. All those teams were way way more talented than the current Warriros.
And once we win it all we’re the best thing since slice bread right?
No. But we are one of the best. 1990s Bulls are still the best ever and probably will be for quite a while.
How could you say that were one of the best yet label the Warriors as just “good”?? You’re funny.