The Point-Fourward: 19th Century Twitter
2017-07-27Four points I’m thinking about the NBA…
1. Had social media existed in the 19th century, it would likely have been flooded by mad twitter beef between Richard Wagner and Giuseppe Verdi. The Italian’s superior number of followers would have re-tweeted his concise retorts, while Wagner himself would have released a steady storm of poetic hammers, each struggling to remain within the 140 character limit. Those on either side of the debate were absolutely sure of their righteousness. The internet would have been ablaze.
Verdi was an absolute genius. He valued tradition without being a slave to obsolete conventions. He respected and promoted the players of his operas by molding melodies and drama to their specific talents.
Verdi operas mostly focused on the human condition and social interplay on the micro scale. Though Verdi still used traditional operatic structure and character devices, he stripped them of much of their cliched heroism and made them real people. It wasn’t much of a surprise that his Shakespearean adaptations are arguable the best ever created. Verdi humanized previously deified tropes. Think “Game of Thrones”.
Giuseppe Verdi was incredibly serious in his work, but was forever the optimist. He wrote a comedy following the tragic deaths of his first wife and children, and he called the construction of a rest home for retired musicians his greatest achievement. By all accounts, Verdi was a really good dude who happened to be a musical and dramatic genius. He was the type of leader who had a chill glass of wine after a bad premiere.
Richard Wagner was also unequivocally a genius. He unabashedly slammed everything traditional as something to be reviled. Consistently, Wagner railed against established operatic structure as being pedantic, populous and ultimately beneath him.
Wagner operas are huge in scope, promoting macro philosophical ideology and stretching one’s melodic tantric limits. He used convoluted, multi-layered plot-lines that create great size almost through a pointillistic technique. Think “Lord of the Rings”.
The time and space of the literal theater is almost as much a vehicle of his work as what is happening on the stage. But like an optical illusion, it only functions if one is totally focused on the pin point provided. It would be easy to call him a revolutionary, but often revolutionaries only succeed if they are well-liked.
Which brings us to some of Wagner’s biggest fans. People often focus on a perceived link between Wagner and the Nazi party, but it is important to remember that Wagner was long dead by the time Hitler took power. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that Wagner would have happily joined the party, but Hitler’s appreciation for Wagner’s music does not posthumously make the composer an actual Nazi.
Nonetheless, Wagner was a narcissist whose sole purpose was to create his “Gesamtkunstwerk”. He used anyone he could to accomplish his goal, running up countless debts before ultimately preying on the “Mad King” Ludwig II of Bavaria. It was Ludwig II’s money that made Wagner’s Bayreuth Festspielhaus a reality. The Mad King may have been a touch off base, but he did have good taste in music.
2. So what does this have to do with basketball? In the email chain between the contributors of our fine website, we often tackle philosophical aspects of our fandom as it pertains to the current state of Cavalier affairs.
My thoughts on Derrick Rose were pretty clearly laid out last week in this space so I won’t rehash them too much now. I do not find Derrick Rose to be a good basketball player, nor do I find him entertaining (we all know some players are awful, but are still super fun to watch). In my estimation, Rose will not be a helpful basketball piece for the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Off the floor, I will choose to let the court’s decision take precedent over anything that I may or may not think regarding his history. It is possible that his statements are true. Regardless, the interviews of Rose over the years have made it hard for me to like him at all.
A stoic superstar sounds great until you learn that Rose has been in constant battle with other players about “whose” squad it is, or that he was irrational enough to babble about a New York SuperTeam. Really, he just seems incredibly disingenuous to me.
3. As a rule, I evaluate someone’s work, be it artistic or otherwise, independently from my evaluation of someone’s character. Yes, it’s impossible to truly separate the two entities entirely, but in general, “The Cosby Show” remains good even though we know things now. “Tannhaüser” is still absurdly moving even though Wagner was more than a little anti-Semitic. If we were to disregard all of the human achievement on planet Earth that has come from generally awful humans, we would likely be worse off for it. Let’s take the good and leave the bad.
Which is why Derrick Rose is hard for me. I don’t like him, nor do I like his game. The person and the art are lost on me. I am seemingly left only with the everlasting “rooting for laundry” possibility. When does rooting for laundry inadvertently make us root against our basketball and/or social principles?
4. Which laundry will Kyrie Irving likely wear next season? For his sake, I hope it is a jersey from an organization that mirrors the principles of Giuseppe Verdi. Greg Popovich absolutely fits the bill there. Pop has that specific ability to lead his players with strength without undermining their confidence as individuals. He truly doesn’t think his superstars are more important humans than his role players because he doesn’t think anyone is a more important human than anyone else. He is about as far from a narcissist as possible.
Why should I care about Kyrie’s new jersey? It’s not so much that I love Kyrie as a person. He seems a strange mixture of intelligence and irrationality. His flat-earth nonsense was not a cute little media trick. It was further poison added to an already corrupted media well. But, I doubt he meant it maliciously. It may be that he has spent too much time being the smartest person in the room without realizing that there are other rooms.
For me, it’s about his art. Irving’s individual offensive game is such an aesthetic joy that on a purely selfish level, I would like to see the rest of his game maximized. It would be beautiful to watch a player with his talent fully realize his potential. As a fan of basketball, it would be lovely to be rid of his face-palm inducing moments.
That being said, taking his list of preferred teams or not, Kyrie might not be built to be part of a flexible “we”. He may always be a solid “me”.
That might be the biggest reason why LeBron James is such an enigma. He embodies a flexible “me” that can undermine any particular “we”. In many ways, James is both Verdi and Wagner in one. He is a revolutionary man of the people, and narcissistic manipulator of worlds.
And he even has his own Ludwig II.
Note: if you are interested more in Verdi/Wagner, check out Stephen Fry’s great debate:
the opera analogy makes triple sense because dudes had to deal with divas constantly, and both our beloved Cavs and the NBA is full of diva types — they will make you weep with their artistry but also make you rip your hair out (and bald guys, I am talking about your eyebrows and sidburns, that hurts too) in agony with their demands off the court.
opera and basketball are also about the irrational and fanatic crowds, factions, and taste when it comes to style of play. etc. bravo
I was just thinking that now that James Jones has final personnel decisions in Phoenix, it is probably going to be impossible for the Cavs to get the largest haul for Irving in the form of the Bledsoe, Jackson, Dudley trade. Jones knows Irving’s game well and probably realizes Irving as he plays now can’t win as the center piece of a team. Jones has supposedly said no to including Jackson and this is probably why. Too bad. Jackson would probably be a better perimeter defender on this team than everyone but James already. Bledsoe would have upgraded us defensively… Read more »
Fun post Ben! I wish they had Twitter in the 19th century…
As for Rose… this is my only real issue…
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg595/Oztradamus/DRoseUnbreakable_zps22706471.png
Has anyone seen Dave Chappelle’s new season episode 1 where he talks about Bill Cosby?
Reports out there that KI refuses to talk to anyone on Cavs.
Who knows if this is true. But if it is, it really shows what a putz he is.
If it’s true, it shows immense immaturity. You’re not in high school anymore, Kyrie.
Kyrie is too busy playing pick up at his old HS today
Pablo Torre rweeted that Lebron is checking on availability of Josh Jackson…maybe JFJ can do the Cavs one last solid. Jackson was my favorite guy in the draft. Bledsoe and Jackson would be a pretty good return…
bledsoe and middleton
Bledsoe and Jackson. It’s what Lebron wants, you should get on board.
Can either of these actually happen? Or is this just a wish list?
I’d be game for either Middleton or Jackson. I think Jackson gives us the ammo to add Boogie or PG13 at the deadline if needed.
Ok. Enough.
Why do you want Middleton over Jackson?
Because Middleton is signed to a nice contract and we want to win now.
I like this Cols. Get Koby on the horn and make it happen.
I just saw that video of Kyrie singing “I’m Coming Home.” Given how these guys communicate cryptically it can’t be perceived as anything but mocking James. If so, I would give Kyrie a smackdown if I was LeBron too. James made Kyrie better and taught him how to win. How ungrateful and juvenile. Part of me wanted to the Cavs/James to reconcile with Irving, but now I hope he is gone if we get fair value for him.
Where the hell are you guys getting Bledsoe + Middleton + pick from? Who does Milwaukee get in this deal?
Milwaukee gets Kyrie. Phoenix gets Brogdon, Shumpy, and a Milwaukee first rounder, we get Bledsoe and Middleton
Seems too perfect. Doubt it happens.
In that scenario, would Phoenix prefer a cheap Brogdon over Bledsoe? Unsure where the value lies there if they don’t prefer Brogdon on a cheaper deal. Milwaukee’s first rounder just won’t be that valuable and by the time Phoenix is good, Brogdon will be up for a deal.
Bledsoe + Middleton + a pick for Kyrie is stealing. I would do that deal.
Get me Bledsoe and Middleton and a pick. Go forth. Do this.
THE THING KY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TRADED —GROW THE F–K UP—-CAVS ARE LOSING TRADE VALUE BY YOUR IMMATURITY —-CAVS STILL HAVE LEVERAGE— THEY WILL TRADE YOU TO A TEAM ( OR NOT TRADE YOU AT ALL ) THAT IS LEAST DESIRABLE FOR YOU TO GO TO ———JUST WISH ONE OF THE TEAMS WOULD STEP UP AND MAKE US A FAVORABLE OFFER SO WE CAN MOVE ON
Oh, and in other news, The Cavs can’t get Kyrie Irving on the phone according to Jason Lloyd. Can they get his agent on the phone, though? Oy.
He’ll be a great Knick.
For reference Cols, THIS is what primadonnas do. Acting like a child. Previous to this I thought Kyrie was mature for his age and peers, clearly he was very good at putting on multiple faces. He’s basically Arya Stark (to pull from Ben’s references).
Wasn’t he just flying back from China yesterday or the day before? This feels like one of those made up stories and the media’s chance to get clicks and reads because there is “so much drama.” Why would a Cavs source be leaking this anyways?
Seriously great stuff, man. I feel more strongly about the personal side of Rose, not necessarily just from a fan perspective, but from a guy who wants quality guys in the locker room who aren’t going to do dumb stuff when the pressure is on (in and out of the locker room). There’s a reason that Pop wants character guys in the locker room. He can count on them. But, Pop forgave Parker’s foibles, so I suppose perhaps Rose should be given a chance. We shall see. As for the play, he just strikes me as a change of direction… Read more »
Holy shit man. Really loved the metaphor. The last line might be the most accurate explantation of LeBron’s two sides that’s ever been written.
Really enjoyed the piece, Ben. I am torn between wanting Kyrie to succeed wherever he ends up (preferably with us), and wanting him to go to Sacramento so he can “appreciate what he had.” With that said, “torn” is a strong word – I do think I want Kyrie to fully realize his game for the reasons you wrote. He is absolutely fun to watch. I don’t quite understand why he has to leave the GOAT to fully realize his potential (unless he just wants to shoot the ball more), but would not be upset to see him average 35/10… Read more »
Yep. I love Kyrie and hope the best for him. But I also am super mad at him for doing this. It makes zero sense to leave a great situation and Finals guaranteed at this moment. Sucks.
You said that for the last three days.
Yep.
Wapner is on in 15 minutes. Judge Wapner.
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Since your premise, Ben, is based on artistic analogy, I suggest Mozart vs Salieri. As depicted in the movie Amadeus anyway, Salieri was intensely jealous as you know of Mozart’s seemingly effortless musical genius and how his effusive personality dominated a room. Irving is a forelorn Salieri in this Cavs drama, and his notes have fallen flat. As an aside, historical summaries suggest the real life relationship of Mozart/Salieri wasn’t as dramatic as displayed in Amadeus. Nevertheless, a great movie.
Rose is fine as a backup PG.
I enjoyed the counterpoint of this simple argument relative to the complexity of the article. I agree.
I liked the article too.
This was super interesting, Ben. My wife had studied Wagner in college but I knew nothing about Verdi. As for the basketball, I like this piece, though I disagree with your opinion on Rose. Talk to Chicago fans. His game was, at its height, electric and its sad to see a player fall from the top because of injury. As for his personal life, I can’t judge without all the facts. The truth is, though, he’s an introvert and awkward public figure. He hasn’t worn the mantle of greatness well, but who has? I love LeBron, but he does some… Read more »
Ben, I have come to appreciate your posts in CtB but with this one, my opinion is that you’re trying a bit too hard. I’m not sure what exactly you’re trying to prove/put forth. So you don’t like Rose as a person. Okay, I can easily understand why considering the information that has come about his legal case. Not having read every single tidbit from the case though, I can’t really say much on the matter. What I do know is that the NBA doesn’t need Rose in a uniform like they need LeBron, Curry or Durant, meaning I’m sure… Read more »
He thinks he is Westbrook and at no point was he as good as Westbrook has been over the last four seasons. Like I discussed last week, he is a huge minus precisely because he cannot shoot at all. That isn’t a casual attribute. Defensively, he has proven himself to be an awful team defender and post injury, an incredibly poor one on one defender. Pre-legal issues, I disliked his game and found him off-putting as a dude, but I realize what we see in public could be vastly different than who he is in the lockerroom. If he could… Read more »
I don’t think he thought of himself as Westbrook, I do think they play the same type of game. At his prime, his stats were 25ppg/4rb/8ast – not MVP Westbrook but closer to ’14/’15 seasons.
I guess we will have to wait and see…
We won a championship with a defensive liability starting at PG. I think Rose can be fine running the second team for spurts by attacking the basket and getting shooters involved. Do I want to see him on the court all game? Probably not. I agree, his outside shooting is not good, which isn’t exactly ideal for playing alongside LeBron and Kyrie (if he stays). At the same time, he IS very good at getting into the paint. Just because that aspect of his game doesn’t 100% complement LeBron doesn’t mean he can’t add value. At $2.1M, I think it’s… Read more »
Legitimate question: How was he so effective during Thib’s reign with Chicago? Those teams were built defense first if I remember correctly and Rose was almost always on the court.
He was at least average then, pre injuries. He could at least stay in front of his man in his salad days, he can’t even do that now.
I think Rose’s best shot is a mid-range bank which he shoots at a pretty decent %. Just trying to be positive.
29 ppg vs GSW the last couple years (3 or 4). He is not afraid of big moments. When you are not starting, it isn’t your team. Hopefully some humble pie serves him well.
Ben, you went for it with the analogy, and I am a fan of your ambition. The premise works for me. My only (admittedly English-supervisory, indulgently nerdy) comment is that you see Tolkien employing “convoluted, multi-layered plot-lines that create great size almost through a pointillistic technique” to create his art… Martin has been quoted as saying he took Tolkien’s premise and went even further in layering, to the point his books (he admitted himself) could never be made into movies. I see Martin’s work just as dense–although he didn’t create fully-realized languages, as Tolkien did–or denser still, given his employment… Read more »
haha. Good point. He probably doesn’t deserve it. Though, I really dislike watching Rose. As far as the Tolkien/Martin comparison, I use them more to describe character differences than writing style or levels of intricacy. I find “Rings” to be more macro base with characters who have more godlike attributes, while “Thrones” seems to focus on the humanistic nature of royalty and otherwise. Wagner created fantastic worlds to make sweeping philosophical statements. Verdi made the fantastic more digestible to the common person by highlighting their own humanistic frailties. In general, I like hard sci-fi far more than fantasy. I don’t… Read more »
This is a conversation I did not ever think to find on C:tB. Go for it gents. I wish to contribute but you two put me to shame in my knowledge of the intricacies of music, literature, and historical personality. Bravo.
I’m a huge Tolkien fan. His legendarium is mostly intimate portraits of individuals responding to a world (and a destiny) that is more macro.
Ben, thanks for the clarification. If we could get a year’s worth of Wagner, Verdi, Tolkien OR Martin’s craft $2.1 million, I ‘d take it. Other outlets are calling Rose a steal. I feel they are only seeing the salary, the length of the contract, and 18ppg…
The Cosby Show can get launched in to the sun now.
Dad is great. Gave us some chocolate rape.
Ok, that was pretty funny.
You should Tweet that if you haven’t already… hilarious!