Talking About Jae Crowder
2017-09-04More than a month after he first requested a trade from the Cleveland Cavaliers, Kyrie Irving has finally officially been traded to the Boston Celtics. While much has been made of the asset the Cavaliers acquired in the Brooklyn Nets’ unprotected first-round pick, and speculation on the extent of Isaiah Thomas‘s hip injury has run rampant, there has been little talk comparatively about the newest Cavalier who will likely have the greatest impact on the team’s fortunes this season, forward Jae Crowder. Who is Jae Crowder, and what is it that makes him so special? Let’s take a look.
For a player who is seen by many as a key part of the Cavaliers’ championship aspirations this season, Crowder hasn’t taken the most traditional road to the top. Lightly recruited out of high school, Crowder played two years of junior college basketball before transferring to Marquette University, where he spent two seasons, playing alongside Jimmy Butler during his first year with the Golden Eagles. Despite his perseverance in making it to a Division I school, Crowder had some pretty severe limitations. He was a mediocre shooter, connecting on 35% of his threes, and shooting just 68% from the line during his time at Marquette (although he did shoot 73% from the line during his second year with the team). He didn’t have much ability to create his own shot, and there were worries that his abilities on the boards wouldn’t translate to the NBA level due to his limited size. After measuring just 6’6″ with a 6’9″ wingspan and 34 inch max vertical at the NBA Combine (with worse measurements during a workout with the Brooklyn Nets), Crowder fell to the second round of the 2012 NBA Draft, where he was selected 34th overall by, ironically, the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Alas, Crowder’s time with the Cavs was not yet meant to be. He was traded along with fellow draft picks Jared Cunningham and Bernard James to the Dallas Mavericks for Tyler Zeller, who was selected 17th overall earlier that night. Luckily for Crowder, he got a chance to play for a great organization in the Mavericks, and one of the best coaches in the league in Rick Carlisle. Crowder shot just 38% from the field his rookie year, but earned valuable playing time, averaging 17.3 minutes in 78 games while serving as the primary backup to then-future Cavalier Shawn Marion.
While Crowder was able to develop into a solid backup during his time with the Mavericks—a nice accomplishment for a second round pick—he was never able to crack the Mavs’ starting lineup on a consistent. basis. That’s why it wasn’t a huge surprise when he was traded alongside Jameer Nelson, Brandan Wright, and multiple draft picks to the Boston Celtics for Rajon Rondo and Dwight Powell on December 18, 2014. Sure, Crowder was a nice young player, but the Mavericks already had Chandler Parsons as their starting small forward, and both Richard Jefferson and Al-Farouq Aminu were more than capable backups. Despite the skepticism of many basketball experts, the Mavs thought that this move would make them more of a force in the playoffs.
Then a funny thing happened. As the Mavericks struggled to incorporate Rondo alongside fellow ball-dominant guard Monta Ellis, the Celtics—fueled by the acquisitions of Crowder and Isaiah Thomas—took off in the second half of the season. Despite finishing as the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference with a 40-42 record, Boston actually had the second-best record in the East after the All-Star break, behind only the Cavaliers. While it was surprising at the time, Crowder and Thomas turned out to be far more impactful players than the men they replaced, Rondo and Jeff Green (who joins Crowder and Thomas on the Cavaliers). In fact, during Crowder’s time on the floor, this Celtics team with a losing record outscored opponents by four points per 100 possessions. While Crowder started just one game during the Celtics’ four-game sweep by the Cavaliers, he finished fourth on the teams in minutes per game during the playoffs (Thomas came off the bench in all four games, but finished second on the team in minutes per game). This was also the first time he was noticed by many Cavalier fans, although not for his actual play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vYKhll04cQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL7HZUJWGoc
Beginning with the 2015-2016 season, Crowder took over as the starting small forward for the Celtics, averaging new career highs in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and minutes per game. The funny thing was, the increase in minutes and shot attempts didn’t hurt Crowder’s efficiency. In fact, the opposite occured on both ends of the floor, as Crowder posted what was then a career-best true shooting percentage of 56.5%, and missed out on a spot on the NBA’s All-Defense team by a single vote. Analytics looked at Crowder just as favorably, as he also set career-highs in PER, Win Shares, Box Plus-Minus, Real Plus-Minus, single-season VORP. In short, Crowder went from solid rotation player to one of the best 3-and-D players in the entire NBA.
Last season was even better for Crowder in several aspects. His three-point shooting moved from good to great as he shot 39.8% from deep on over five attempts per game. His ability to shoot from both the corners and the top of the arc provided key spacing for the Celtics’ offense.
Crowder’s offensive game also became more well-rounded as he averaged a career-high 2.2 assists per game on an impressive (for a wing) two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. The free throw issues from college have disappeared as well, as Crowder has shot over 80% from the charity stripe in each of the last two seasons. He became more proficient in attacking the basket after closeouts, another sign of his growing offensive versatility. Crowder is also a solid cutter, and finished 11th in field goal percentage within three feet of the basket among players with at least 100 such attempts. Combined with his outside shooting, that ability to finish at the basket gave Crowder a True Shooting Percentage of 61.3% last season, a terrific number. He continued to be a force on the glass, establishing a career-best in rebounding by averaging 5.8 boards per game. Crowder’s solid two-way play is highly rated by ESPN’s Real Plus-Minus statistic, which has ranked him as a top five small forward in each of the last two seasons, and the 20th best player in the entire NBA last season. By this measure (which obviously isn’t perfect, but no statistic is), Crowder was the best player moved on either side of the Cleveland-Boston trade. While he isn’t a star, his value isn’t far from it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbSsnodclkY
While we know that Crowder will play an important role in the Cavaliers’ rotation, no one knows for sure exactly what that role will be. After two seasons as a starter, Crowder may come off the bench for the Cavaliers, but he won’t simply be the backup to LeBron James. Cleveland.com’s Joe Vardon has reported that Cavaliers head coach Tyronn Lue is working on lineups with James and Crowder sharing the court. With Isaiah Thomas likely to miss the start of the season, a lineup of Crowder, J.R. Smith, James, Kevin Love, and Tristan Thompson would likely be highly effective on both sides of the ball, while keeping Derrick Rose in his role as backup point guard. It would also ask a tremendous amount of James in terms of playmaking, especially when they can plug in an uninspiring but temporarily acceptable point guard rotation of Rose and Jose Calderon for the time being. Still, both analytics and traditional numbers tell us that Crowder is now the Cavaliers’ second-best wing behind James. He needs to play at least 30 minutes a night, and likely more against the Golden State Warriors, as his size and strength gives the Cavaliers a player besides James—and somewhat the aging Richard Jefferson—with at least the theoretical ability to guard Kevin Durant and Draymond Green. Even if Iman Shumpert is traded and Jefferson moves into the James Jones role, finding those minutes for Crowder won’t be easy with James, Love, Smith, Thompson, and (eventually) Thomas also deserving/needing that same kind of run. Something will have to give, but it’s a good problem to have.
At first glance, Jae Crowder seems like little more than capable filler in the Kyrie Irving trade. A solid veteran in a move that was headlined by All-Stars in Irving and Thomas, as well as an incredibly valuable first round pick. But if you take a close look at the 2016-2017 Cleveland Cavaliers, you’ll see that he was exactly the kind of player they needed. Jae Crowder doesn’t guarantee a championship for the Cavaliers, no player could against a team like the Warriors. However, he does put them a little closer while bringing a hard-nosed style of play that both his Cavalier teammates and the fans that follow them will soon come to appreciate.
There is a reasonable chance that there will be an Aurora visible across the northern half of the US tonight. Try to get outside in a dark area and check it out.
GEEZ WAS HAVING A GOOD DAY UNTIL I JUST READ THAT ARTICLE ( IT’S INJURY ) ALL WE CAN HOPE FOR IS THE BEST FOR THIS TYPE OF INJURY
A little bit more of a significant look at IT3’s situation than we’ve been previously given. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injury
Yeah I don’t know why anyone makes trades with Ainge. He’s a snake.
I like our team better this season. More ‘want to’ guys like IT, Crowder, Osman, & Zizic. The Delly Quotient is higher. As is the overall depth.
Starters: IT, JR, Bron, Love, TT.
2nd: Rose, Korver, Crowder, RJ, Frye
3rd: Calderon, Shump, Cedi, Green, Zizic.
Some of the 3rd team guys are actual NBA players & Cedi/Zizic I think will be sooner rather than later.
I think everyone is more ‘want to’ coming off a season that they didn’t win it all, unlike 2016-17.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/905258853603868672
One last Tribe post — Jose Ramirez for MVP!
And Kluber for Cy Young.
Trevor Bauer… TREVOR BAUER… has as many wins as Chris (jersey slashing) Sale.
Yes. That is amazing. He may be a head case, but he is good. I think is also getting less crazy, which is a good thing. I watched a game in early June, and he was having a lot of fun being Carasco’s assistant in making a baseball into a J-Ram head with multi colored hair. TB looked like he is learning to be “one of the guys”.
Okay I’m done posting Tribe stuff (don’t want to be disrespectful) unless someone wants to discuss.
Tribe: the blog
The 2016, 2017 Indians are the 6th team since 1901 with 13+ game winning streaks in consecutive seasons. The last was the 1960, 1961 New York Yankees.
8. Indians and Astros: K Club
No team in the modern era has ever logged a double-digit strikeouts-per-nine rate as a full staff (the Milwaukee Cream Citys are credited with a rate of 12.03 K/9 in 104 innings in 1884). The Indians are leading the league with a 10.06 K/9 mark, and the Astros are right behind at 9.95.
Yanimal basically makes it 13 in a row for the Tribe!
Yanimal! That is good. Did you invent it?
On top of the Tribe being really good, they are really deep! Everyone they bring up is playing good ball. Olsen has not given up a run yet. And everyone is excellent on D. Whoever is running the FO and the draft are doing the best job ever.
No I can’t be credited for Yanimal.
RED SOX GUILTY OF STEALING SIGNS WITH APPLE WATCH—–YES THAT SAME CITY ( BOSTON —DEFLATE GATE ETC. ) THAT HAS TO ” BE UNDERHANDED ” TO GET AN ADVANTAGE —-GOOD LUCK WITH THAT CITY / FAN BASE KYRIE
Saw that banner at the bottom of my screen. Despite the cheating Sox, Tribe still have a better record! Bleep the Red Sox!
Did anyone hear how they got caught?
The guy in the replay room will probably get thrown under the bus like the guy who was deflating balls for Brady.
With all the new tech that can be used to cheat in sports (and school, etc.), the commissioner needs to throw the hammer down to set an example. In the NFL, this would surely cost the first round draft pick. That should be worth the first five or ten in baseball.
YOU BEAT ME TO IT ARCH—RAMIREZ GOAT—-MAN WHAT IS HIS BATTING / SLUGGING AVG THIS PAST WEEK—HAS TO BE OFF THE CHARTS !!
I think it’s like .570 (Batting Average) the past 10 games.
WE SPOKE TOO SOON ARCH—–TRIBE GOING TO HAVE TO EARN THIS ONE TONIGHT
Jose Ramirez is the ?
Two home runs already tonight!
On this road trip Jose Ramirez accounts for 7 of the 17 home runs.
RIGHT WITH YOU ON ALL 3 ARCH—TRIBE / CEDI / ZIZIC——-DOES ANYONE THINK ZIZIC COULD END UP BEING A HUGE BARGAIN / PLUS IN THIS TARDE
Although Salazar is a head case.
I just hope Zizik isn’t another Semi Erden.
I’m ready for the Osman and Zizik era to begin!
Tribe dominating the MLB!
I spoke too soon. Salazar decided to get in his head.
Man I wish Cavs could get Delly/Beverly/Bledsoe/A.Bradley in place of IT somehow.
All four? We already have too many players signed.
One of the four, although two would be awesome
I’d go Beverly, Bledsoe, Delly, Bradley. Bradley would be ranked higher if he were a PG.
But none of those guys can have remotely the impact that IT can if he is healthy. I don’t think the Celts have figured out a way to inflate his numbers, those are actual points he scored the last couple years. Boston teams Deflate, not Inflate. Did you know the Celts had a better record than the Cavs last year? It really happened, and I don’t think it was because of Olnyk.
Raoul, you realize we’re not comparing players in a vacuum? And since when did the Cavs care about the regular season? I’m sure you’re aware of IT’s playoff issues so I won’t remind you of that timeline. I hope he can contribute when it matters.
We need all of the players.
IT for all 4 would be a solid deal.
AMEN! Moreso: Beverly/Bledsoe.
I just disagree that guys like Harden or Westbrook belong in a conversation in the top 5 of NBA players. There’s a difference between gaudy stats and regular season success and potential in the playoffs. Like if you want to make the playoffs, then sure. But it’s only because they are ball dominant and great, durable athletes. Butf you want to win the conference in the playoffs, I’d rather have guys like Paul George, Boogie, Towns, let alone the untouchables. Like I’d rather have Kyrie than Westbrook in the playoffs, but Westbrook in the regular season. But maybe I’m just… Read more »
Also – before anyone throws the “look at the MVP voting over the last couple years with Harden and Westbrook!”. Derrick Rose won MVP, and he’s never been a top 10 player in the league. Probably was top 15-20 when he won. Good coaching and system can win a lot of regular season games, or sheer brute force in terms of Westbrook. But the playoffs can be a different story
So how does Cousins factor in here? He’s stunk in several systems and 2 different teams.
I agree with you on Harden, who relies on getting calls, which works in the regular season and not the playoffs. I don’t think Harden can be your #1 guy to win a championship. He can probably fill a Kyrie role. I personally can’t stand Hardens game. He’s led the league in FTA the past few years because he flops, which helps him in the regular season. I wouldn’t put Harden in my top 10.
Boogie?
I was with you unti you said Boogie & Towns. At least Harden & Russ GET you to the POs.
Top 4: Bron, Durant, Kawhi, Curry. After that, there is a drop.
Second Tier: CP3, Harden, Russ, George, Butler, Giannis, Davis, Griffin.
Third Tier: Kyrie, Wall, IT, Lowry, Conley, DeRozan, Love, Green, Klay, M. Gasol, Boogie, Millsap, Horford. Plus a few others.
I’d rather have Westbrook than Kyrie in the regular season or playoffs. Westbrook is like a mini LeBron.
So if you want to win the regular season choose Harden/Westbrook, but if you want to win the playoffs go with Boogie, whose never made the playoffs?!?! What’s the Boogie obsession (sorry not just you MJ 45)? I hope I never see Boogie in a Cavs uni. DeMarcus Cousins might be the most overrated NBA player.
DID CTB PUT COLS ON WAIVERS / TRADE HIM FOR WARRIORS FAN ( SORRY WARRIORS FAN —JUST FUNNING )—-CONCERNED ABOUT OUR “BELOVED COLS ” ——WE NEED TO GATHER UP A ” BEER RANSOM ” FOR HIM/ BRING HIM BACK
lol. I actually agreed with him that this was a good trade for Cavs all considered, for different reasons though. Of course, Cols moved from Isaiah sucks to Isaiah is great in a minute.
No inertia in Cols’ thinking…
No. He’s gone walkabout.
Don’t you worry yourself NOMAD. He’s still over at FTS commenting there.
Thanks for the pointer. Guess what Cols is doing over at FTS? Insulting Delly! Whoda thunk it? HaHaHa!
I really think Cols is Bipolar. He can go for days with reasonable, insightful comments, and then he goes into “starving rottweiler on a meat wagon” mode about Delly or one of his other trigger issues.
Cols is on IVR: Injured Verbal Reserve. Another ten day stint pending
Poor Cols missed the Great Debate about whatever.
Free Liggins, I mean Cols!
IS IT FAIRLY SAFE TO SAY SHUMP WILL NOT BE ON THIS TEAM COME NEXT APRIL—–QUESTION IS NOW —WHEN IS THE TRADE MADE
I wouldn’t count on it. I’d put it this way, if you were another team’s GM, would you trade for Shump? If so, WHAT would you trade for Shump? (And would the Cavs want it)? Or, more precisely, what would the Cavs need to include for you to take Shump? (And would the Cavs want to part with it?).
Idk what Greeny is smoking, but if the Cavs get Anthony Davis- holy smokes. I’d give up literally everyone for Davis. Take the pick, Love, IT, TT, Frye. Take whatever you want but Lebron and Crowder.
I’m very excited about Crowder. Cavs have really needed one or two players like him on the roster past couple of years. I believe they would have won the finals this year had they had Crowder in place of Shump.
FWIW, the year AD got drafted, there was some kind of event to determine if the Cavs or Pels got the #1 pick (for some reason I cannot recall. Anyone remember?) Anyway, the Cavs and Pels tied for first about three times, and finally the Pels won, and the Cavs got fourth, resulting in St. Weirdo. Anyway, Jr. Gilbert (with the bowtie) almost got the #1 two years in row (KI + AD) which would likely have kept it from happening a couple years later.
The Cavs actually WON a pre-lottery coin flip with the Pelicans/Hornets to see which would be the No. 3 team in terms of chances going into the lottery. The Pelicans landed the top pick from the No. 4 spot.
Haha come on, you would also give up Crowder. A Davis is the 3rd best player in the league, and best player under 25. If he played with LeBron, my god. But it’s a total pipe dream, no way the Pelicans give him up.
For the record, MJ 45’s top 5:
LeBron
Durant
Davis
Giannis
Kawhi
Davis is an interesting study. He is definitely a top talent but so far not translated to wins. For example, we know his size and shot blocking ability but his team was better defensively with him off the floor. Also, for all the talent he has, he lead his team to playoffs only one time so far to be swept by dubs and played >70 games only once in five years. A great player should be able to lead his team to atleast .500, IMO, and .500 would have got Pelicans into playoffs last year. I think it is inevitable… Read more »
There are probably 8-10 players that belong in the top 5. It’s deceptive, too because there’s a pretty big gap between Lebron and everyone else. I’d put players in tiers: Tier 1 – Basketball Mt. Rushmore Lebron Tier 2 – All-time great and NBA champion Durant Kawhi Curry Tier 3 – All-star, future HOF, can lead a winning team Harden Westbrook CP3 Tier 4 – Giannis AD Draymond Tier 5 – Special Irving KAT Lillard George Butler Wall Tier 6 – the rest Love Grobert Hayward McCollum DeRozan Lowry Klay Conley Cousins Griffin FWIW – I think Draymond is probably… Read more »
+1. Very well put.
Some changes I would go for, may be add Harden to Tier2(not a fan of Harden but he did lead his team to 55 wins last year as lone all star), Marc Gasol to Tier4 and Klay Thompson to Tier5.
I think you may overestimate Klay’s ability a tad. I think he’s appropriate where he is. Put him on any other team NOT Warrior’s and his effectiveness is definitely going to drop. He is another who benefits from system. In a vacuum, still one of the best in the game, but not quite on the level as the rest I don’t think.
Klay’s shooting, moving off the ball and great defense actually can be argued as best 2 way guard in the league.
His advance defensive numbers are terrible especially considering he plays on one of the best defensive teams in the league. He basically has one very very elite skill.
That is where stats fail. He is a very good defender. Advance stats look at rebounds and steals which he is below par but you can’t find a better on ball defender of guards.
Klay’s a good defender, but I agree with others that he’s over-rated. It’s really hard to tell because he’s playing with Draymond and Iggy at times as well as Durant (who can be a damn good defender when he wants to be). That said, he’s not a disruptive defender like Draymond, Grobert or Kawhi. He’s just consistently good. That’s a huge difference. Lebron, Tony Allen, Patrick Beverly, Marcus Smart, Roberson and Jimmy Butler can all be very disruptive. Klay just isn’t.
I disagree, may be because I watch all of dubs game twice. Here is a reg season stat of Harden against dubs, Klay is almost always primary defender on Harden.
https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/846915708269314050?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F1017779-james-hardens-surprising-stats-vs-the-golden-state-warriors-this-season
Playoffs in 2016 when warriors last played rockets in playoffs, Harden was limited by Klay to 42% FG and 30% from 3s.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2016-nba-western-conference-first-round-rockets-vs-warriors.html
Klay is as good if not a better defender than Tony Allen, Roberson and Butler, he just does it more quietly than, say Tony Allen.
Recent article on Klay, some interesting perspective on Klay’s role with dubs.
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/08/29/klay-thompson-warriors-value-superteam-era-steph-curry-kevin-durant
Here is an article from bleacher reports that talks about Klay’s D not reflecting on stats.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698613-metrics-101-the-top-5-nba-defenders-at-every-position
That article says he doesn’t contribute any defensive rebounding and is a terrible off-ball defender.
And again, that shooting benefits from having an all-time great shooter next to him in Curry and a system that provides wide open looks. I’m not arguing that he’s not an excellent player and one of the best in the league. Just that he is a product of the system and put on a different team he would be statistically less productive.
JMay, every player in dubs benefit from the system and playing with Curry, no denying that. That said, Klay rarely stands and always moving like Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton used to. Add his size advantage at his position, he can almost get a shot any time he wants. I think he will thrive in any team and perhaps even more impactful. But, we may know that in two years when warriors will find it hard to retain him. And then add his elite D, not many 2 way elite guards in NBA right now. All said, I think we… Read more »
It seems like Davis has had injury issues, but if he doesn’t have to carry a franchise, he might have better injury success. There’s no way the Pelicans give up Davis in a trade. I think you’d have better luck with Portzingas.
Crowder is a great pick up. Depending on how much you really value Kyrie’s clutch shooting in playoffs, Crowder+IT may net better results than Kyrie. Here is from a ESPN article.
“And, small sample size of course, but the Warriors had a net rating of 100.0 when Crowder was on the floor last season against them as opposed to 115.6 for the season, according to BasketballReference.com).”
Agree with WF.
My view is that it is a long shot for anyone to beat the Warriors this year. They seem to have gotten stronger in the off season. But the Cavs have a reasonable shot. It will help if a lot of things turn out right and they get lucky! I have to hope Lue is getting better.
I think Lue’s biggest weakness is lineups. We kept waiting for him to pull out the good lineups last year and he never seemed to manage to do it. Then it was over. We never got a glimpse of the best lineup of the season after what? March? There is literally no excuse to not have tried it for a small stretch of time when we were losing the Finals.
Agree – the Cavs need to mix it up with rotations and give young players some run. Defaulting to (washed-up) vets is a recipe for post-season failure.
Meanwhile, I don’t think AD will be traded this year and the Celtics can and will likely put together a better package.
The Cavs best bet is picking us a two-way point guard in exchange for IT when he’s healthy and/or flipping their own pick for someone.
I think the Cavs best bet is trying to win this year with IT.
@raoul, do you really think Cavs can win with IT playing big role ? Celtics team of last year was an exception and surpassed expectations. He would have struggled to maintain that output with Celtics even if he were healthy and were a celt. IT can help Cavs as a spark on offense and in smaller role but not in the role he played with celts, IMO. Crowder and pick still makes this a good trade so long as IT has been utlilized right. Calderon may be best PG on the team right now in the sense, he doesn’t hold… Read more »
A lot of other great defenders were on the floor with Crowder against GSW for that 100.0 rating
To be fair, so was IT…
True, that and different system under Stevens, Stevens is a great coach who was able to successfully hide Isaiah on D.
Great piece, Mike. I’m excited about Crowder. Cavs needed to get tougher and much better defensively. Crowder is going to fit in nicely I think.
Any potential trade ideas need to take into account that the Cavs currently have 15 fully guaranteed contracts on their roster, plus partially guaranteed deal for Kay Felder and non-guaranteed deal for Edy Tavares. Considering the Cavs are the only team in the NBA that hasn’t signed any players to two-way contracts, it seems likely they they will try to waive Felder and Tavares at a point where they will likely make it through waivers and be signed to two-way deals (not sure they have to be concerned about this, particularly with Felder). Either way, trading those two doesn’t really… Read more »
Right. That is a problem that we can probably mark up to KA being new on the job. He signed a couple mediocre guys ASAP like he was worried there would not be enough to go around. And, you cannot trade those guys until December or something. So the Cavs have a problem is someone good gets unexpectedly available. The best solution would be if the Cavs could work some “more guys for less better guys” trades. Probably worth a second round pick to make it happen.
Here’s one of Cedi’s blocks today. LeBron has to like this.
https://twitter.com/RekorBet/status/904851560047538176
AGREED —-HIM AND CROWDER WITH THEIR SIZE / ATHLETICISM COULD PROVE TO BE MISMATCHES ——-ALSO SOMEONE YESTERDAY MENTIONED ABOUT KEEPING LIGGINS—–I SAY WE HAVE JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER POTENTIAL IN SIR DOMINICK
I do like Pointer. Liggins is a MUCH better 3PT shooter. Pointer would need to be signed to a 2 way deal in all liklihood. I am for it.
Liggins is no longer on the Cavs we waived him to sign Dante Jones the last game of the season last year.
Random Q: why don’t we invest in Derrick Williams? He could be part of a great “switchy” lineup too, and I think he could improve a lot of he got minutes.
Totally agree. Biggest head scratcher from last year. He was doing some good things.
I second that emotion. He is not a great defender. Still, he shot well from deep. I liked him better than Jeff Green. We havev15 guaranteed deals + Felder & Tavares. If DWill is going to return ( or Pointer sign) someone is going to have to go. Love to see both at camp.
Would not be surprised to see some combination of felder/tavares/pointer cut from training camp roster and brought back in on two way contracts. There’s no other room for them in any other capacity till they trim the roster. You have to think that any further trades will try to dump some roster spots.
… D’oh. Mike said the same thing below.
Yeah, why anyone would think Jeff Green is an NBA caliber basketball player at this point I don’t know. It makes no sense to me they signed Green over Williams.
As I recall, KA signed Green and Calderone in about a minute, which suggests he kind of panicked. That is the main place not having an experienced GM hurt. I am giving him a mulligan on that, because the trade is rated very high for the circumstances.
SO FAR IT SEEMS TO BE ENCOURAGING / HOPEFUL / OPTOMISM WITH ” CEDI-JEDI ” PLAY—MAYBE MORE THAN WHAT WE WERE GIVING HIM CAPABLE OF PLAYING AT—-AND AGAIN WE ALL KNOW PLAYING WITH LEBRON ONLY MAKES YOU BETTER ——-TRAINING CAMP CAN’T GET HERE QUICK ENOUGH !!
I think Cedi had 15/4/4. Only 4/12 on FGs. Still, pretty encouraging overall.
Jose Ramirez is the ?
Is that the AL MVP logo?
No it’s a goat!
5. He had the absolute highlight of the game with a vicious chasedown block on Serbian superstar Bogdan Bogdanovic, soon of the Sacramento Kings. He had another chasedown block on him late in the game , which again shows that he never stops hustling. 6. He wasn’t great on D though as he often went for the spectacular play and was late on closeouts (this may have been the gameplan though as the turkish team allowed some open threes by design to clog the paint). He also went for at least three hopeless offensive boards (few things drive me more… Read more »
Thanks for the report! Are you more optimistic about Cedi than you were before? If I recall correctly, you thought he was a long shot to be a contribtutor.
Also, what do you think of this scout’s assessment of him as a 6-8 Delly? (Link courtesy of Raoul in the previous thread.)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2730812-nba-scout-breaks-down-cleveland-cavaliers-new-additions-young-talent
It is very difficult to be an immediate contributor right after coming from Europe to the NBA. It is almost a different sport. Even on well run teams like the Spurs or the Mavs, it takes Euro guys a year to get acclimated to the speed of the game and on a dysfunctional team like the one the Cavs project to be, it will be even more difficult. Still, his athleticism will make him look like he belongs and he does hustle. As for being a 6-8 Delly, Delly’s biggest quality as far as I am concerned is that he… Read more »
Thanks for the perspective.
Appreciate your posts. Thank you.
The Turkey-Serbia game for the Eurobasket just ended. Serbia won 80-74. Some observations about Cedi. ( Note: I don’t have the boxscore, so the observations will be stat-free, just what I saw FWIW). 1. Cedi is the unquestioned leader in the Turkish squad and its best player. A very different role than the one he played for Anandolu and will play for the Cavs. 2. He had the ball in his hands a lot and ran the pick n roll multiple times and the results were mixed as expected, since that is something he isn’t accustomed to doing. He made… Read more »
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Rumblings about the Cavs fielding offers on the BKN pick still coming. Hopefully the old “where there’s smoke there’s fire” adage is true in this case…
Really – shouldn’t the Cavs wait to see what they have before trading their best asset?
There’s probably a 20% chance it’s a top 3 pick in a strong draft.
If the offers are high enough, don’t wait. Of course we have no clue what the offers are but if people are offering enough for a top 1-3 pick you trade it before that pick becomes less valuable.
Absolutely. But the calls are surely mostly to see if the Cavs have a dumbbell attack and trade it for a mediocre player(s). You can bet all the other team’s blogs have zillions of ideas for their version of Shump, Felder, JR, and the big guy for the pick.
THOUGHT I READ SOMEWHERE RIGHT BEFORE SUMMER LEAGUE —ZIZIC HAD A ” MONSTER ” GAME IN EUORO TOURNAMENT AGAINST TOP PLAYERS—SOMETHING LIKE 37 PTS/ 20 REBOUNDS—HAD CELT FANS SALIVATING—THEN HE HAD A SOMEWHAT DISSAPPOINTING SUMMER LEAGUE AND THE EXCITEMENT DRIED UP—-SO MAYBE WE GET AN IN BETWEEN ANTE AND HE PROVES SERICIABLE FOR 9-12 MINUTES A GAME– MAYBE MORE
SCOTT —WAS JUST GOING TO POST ON “ENCHILADA “—-IS HE STILL IN THE CAVS PICTURE —-LIKE HIM OVER SHUMP
Not until the Cavs clear some roster spots.
I’m not a believer in Jeff Green, but I want to see a LeBron, J.R., Crowder, Jefferson, and Green lineup just to see if it works. Everybody switches everything, Crowder and LBJ are solid on the boards, and there would be plenty of shooting.
The Cavs big lineup could be a lot like last years’ jumbo lineup (which never saw the light of day again after early March) except with much better defenders. The challenge will be, who fills that fifth spot with love, Bron, JR, and Jae? Frye, Korver, RJ, and Cedi might all bring something. I’m terrified theyll bring in Shump to take the ball handling load off LeBron.
TT can play with that lineup. Assuming they sweep the defensive boards, this lineup could be killer. Cavs just need to keep love in the Post and at the elbow instead of spotting up in Threeville.
Maybe Zizic or Osman will be playable? Maybe Shump and a the Cavs own pick can net someone like Dudley? I’m not optimistic about Jeff Green but you never know. Whatever happened Derrick Williams – why did he disappear after a good start with the Cavs?
That is the biggest question about last year. My guess is that Lue reasoned that the Cavs needed a ball handler, so he gave DWill1’s minutes to DWill2 in hopes that DWill2 would find it again, and be a major factor in the playoffs. Unfortunately, DWill2 showed no sign of being able to play anymore, so he was worthless, and the Cavs Jumbo lineup never got tried in the playoffs. I do blame Lue for not having a “Plan B”.
@CtB – you guys should write a post on vet/trade targets that will NOT cost the Cavs the Brooklyn pick. My list of possibilities:
Jared Dudley
Avery Bradley
Danny Green
Patrick Beverly
Of those guys Dudley is the only one with a chance of going anywhere before January.
Great piece. Crowder is a great pickup. He is a top 3 two way player on our team (James, Crowder, Smith). And Love’s D (out of transition) & Tristan’s O are both good enough to br close to 2 way guys. Ditto Korver’s D. Rose played for Thibs so his D is in there somewhere. If Cedi develops. If we land Wade. If Green is revitalized with Lue. If Shump stops dribbling. If we flip a pick for a player. Lot of ifs. Crowder is not one of them.
Maybe the Cavs can flip their pick and Shump and Felder or Osman for Avery Bradley? The Cavs are really just one player away.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8xdjyqc
Cavs move their pick in next year’s draft plus Shump for Dieng and have the best front court rotation in the whole association.
why would the Wolves do it?
Crowder should have no problem finding 30 mins a game. The Cavs should start him alongside Smith in the backcourt. Lebron and Love are both very capable passers. Crowder’s defense and toughness are invaluable. The Cavs are closer to competing with the Warriors than people think. Kyrie was an unbelievable scorer, but he hurt the Cavs every other way. If Osman is somehow better than we expect or if the Cavs can get one more good wing they can compete if they play team ball. Honestly, I’m bummed Iggy stuck with the Warriors. The Cavs need an Iggy of their… Read more »
Cavs need to find a way to Make curry work on D and wear him out.
Cavs challenge – if IT returns to form – is that they can’t play IT and Love at the same time against the Warriors.
The sub-par defense isn’t an issue until the post-season. Until then, great offense is a mirage.
I don’t want to trade the Brooklyn pick, but imagine if the Cavs traded it along with IT and filler for Brogdan and Middleton. Would the Cavs have enough to beat GS? It would be tempting to see.
Well wouldn’t THIS be amazing. Too good to be true.
That is what IT & Rose are for. Though the Dubs will switch Klay on them. Having guys who either run him ragged (Korver) or can post him up (James, Crowder) helps a ton. He can hide on JR as he is a spot up guy
Nice stuff, Mike. I have been a huge Crowder fan since that draft. A lot of analytics had him as a top five player that draft. He’s gonna look great next to LeBron.
WOW ALOT OF “INTANGIBLES “—WITH ALL THE FAMALIAR NAMES INVOLVED AND THAT HE WAS DRAFTED BY THE CAVS —-SO I GUESS HE WAS DESTINED TO BE A CAV SOONER OR LATER —–CAN ONLY SEE HIS GAME IMPROVING PLAYING WITH LEBRON / KEVIN / SWISH / ETC.—-HOPE THAT TOUGHNESS WEARS OFF ON A FEW MORE PLAYERS—-A BIG WELCOME JAE —–CAN’T WAIT FOR THE SEASON TO BEGIN
Crowder was a great pickup on a team friendly contract, I’m excited to see him in a Cavs uni this upcoming season.