From Distance: Patience Is A Virtue
2017-10-27Four points I’m thinking about the NBA…
1. After only five games of the 2017-2018 NBA season, the Cleveland Cavaliers have a bit of an identity crisis. Last week, I wrote about LeBron James, the power forward. Sliding Kevin Love to center forced LeBron down to the four. He responded by punishing people with unstoppable spin-moves in the paint. The King rotated hard and early for a defense that was predicated on switching almost everything and trapping in the corners. The defense had a plan.
Offensively, things weren’t exactly humming. Predictably, the starters couldn’t get anything going from behind the arc. Indeed, a lineup with Dwyane Wade and Derrick Rose is assuredly not the way to maximize the three ball.
Why did they even bother with that lineup? Lue wants us to believe that it was some master plan to stroke Wade’s ego. If that is actually the case, it is unfortunate. The idea that a future Hall-of-Famer would come to that grand conclusion after a few games of the regular season, is rather silly and patronizing. Wade knows how basketball works. I’m sure he had talked through all the rotation possibilities with James before he signed. If Wade did, in fact, ask to come off the bench during the preseason, Lue should have thanked the basketball gods and made it so.
Instead, Lue confused everyone who knows anything about the geometry of basketball, and disrespected a somewhat sensitive guy in J.R. Smith. I sincerely doubt that there really was a master plan. Lue has proven time and time again that he prefers “name reputation guys” to players who are actually likely to improve the product on the floor.
Regardless, injuries and ineffective play in the back-court gave Tyronn Lue a chance to shuffle the lineup. Tossing Tristan Thompson back in at the five slid everyone down a position and made it possible to start LeBron at the point.
While LeBron is certainly able to man the point, and every other position on the floor, a level of aggression was immediately taken out of the lineup. Love was playing well at the five, using his strength to really mix it up in the interior. He held his own in switch opportunities allowing the defense to respond to screen action quickly and consistently.
With Tristan at the five, Love drifted back out away from the paint on both ends. With two traditional big men on the floor, the Cavs reverted to a less aggressive switching style. The Cavs don’t have enough speed at the guard position to go over picks quickly and effectively. J.R does his best, but isn’t a small slithery dude. LeBron only goes over picks when the game is on the line. The jumbo lineup has led to a general confusion (and laziness) on off-ball screen defense and a resulting storm of opponent three point bombs.
It is somewhat counter-intuitive, but the Cavs play a far more aggressive and paint oriented game with LeBron and Love manning the front-court. Love, James, Crowder, J.R. and Korver form the best combination of shooting and switch-ability for a starting lineup. Even Jeff Green has thrived in that lineup when replacing either Love or Crowder.
Unless the Cavs get a better defensive guard, Lue would be best served by playing his shooting wings and switching everything. Who knows, maybe Lue will give us that very starting lineup and claim that it was all a master plan.
2. Eric Bledsoe would certainly qualify as a “better defensive guard”. At this point, we know that Bledsoe’s time in Phoenix is coming to an end. It will be very interesting to see what kind of trade package the Suns ultimately accept. With Bledsoe’s injury history, it is very difficult to imagine that Suns’ GM Ryan McDonough would receive a talented young player and a pick. Considering Bledsoe is currently away from the team, McDonough has even less leverage.
It’s 2017. Simply being away from the squad will do nothing to eliminate strife and discontent in the locker room. I’m not sure what kind of advice Rich Paul is giving Bledsoe. Whatever it is, it is probably warranted. Bledsoe helped the Suns go 4-3 last March before management decided to hold him out of games in the name of tanking. McDonough and notoriously awful owner, Robert Sarver are not the guys to whom benefit of the doubt should be given.
Do the Cavs have a good enough offer? Right at this moment, doubtful. Assuming the Nets pick is off the table, the Suns would likely scoff at the possibility of trading Bledsoe for Iman Shumpert and a Cavs late 1st rounder.
Ultimately, it depends on the rest of the league. As evidenced by last season, Bledsoe is good enough to make tanking difficult. The Knicks have already said, “nope, we wanna suck this year, thanks”. Bled just doesn’t make a lot of sense for a young terrible team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGLFdGToOo
A stacked squad is unlikely to have the trade assets that the Suns front office covets. It’s hard to know whether the Bucks actually want Bledsoe, or if the Suns are putting names like Malcolm Brogdon out into the universe to signal the level of player they would like in return. If I’m the Bucks, I happily stand pat with the 24 year-old Rookie of the Year. Brogdon is as useful to the Bucks as Bledsoe would be.
“What you’re saying is there’s a chance!” Yeah, basically. The Nuggets and the Cavs make the most sense for Bledsoe as a player. A Nuggets package would likely include Emmanuel Mudiay and Kenneth Faried. If one believes in Mudiay’s potential at all, it is a better deal for the Suns than anything based around Iman Shumpert. Then again, the Nuggets don’t own a first rounder to deal. The Cavs first rounder isn’t likely to be higher than 27 or so, but it is better than what the Nuggets (don’t) have.
The Cavaliers shouldn’t be in any rush. If the Nets pick continues to lose value, Bledsoe suitors dry up, or any number of drastic things happen in this crazy league, a sensible deal may materialize.
3. In the meantime, this crazy league is incredibly entertaining to watch. Blake Griffin and baby clone, Aaron Gordon have both added the three pointer to their games this season. The Clippers have mad “Ewing Theory” mojo going. Blake’s mastery from behind the long line is a driving force behind their undefeated start. Griffin is shooting 45 percent from distance. That is impressive enough before you even see that he is making 2.5 threes per game! The DeAndre Jordan/Blake Griffin pairing has been questioned for years. Blake is in the process of answering that question with an emphatic “yes”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3IP3j2gQY
Down in Orlando, Gordon has been ridiculous. Obviously, his five for five performance against the Nets is going to skew his numbers. I’m pretty certain he won’t continue to hit 85 percent from deep. But like Griffen, his upper body form has always been good. The problem was with his release timing. Gordon has more natural fluidity than Griffin in the early part of his gather. This doesn’t seem to be an aberration as much as a new trend. The Magic might be on to something. The Clips certainly are.
4. It’s fun to see young players develop on an NBA floor. It’s more fun to watch guys with lesser names outperform their famous counterparts (Patrick Beverley for Chris Paul comes to mind). It would be fantastic if Ty Lue felt the same way. C’mon Ty. Give me some Cedi!
GO BUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok so are the magic for real? As in do they slide into the playoffs? If Gordon has taken the leap, which he may have, they have the firepower. Vucevic, and Fournier can both score and if Gordon has developed a three I think they have the firepower to make the playoffs. Obviously, not having Leonard means more to the Spurs than not having IT does to the cavs at this point but still, pretty good win for a now 4 and 1 magic.
Bullets imploding, as is their habit.
So the Cavs aren’t interested in Bledsoe right now. Im done with Rose. Please come back healthy Isaiah.
dont get the hate on rose…hes been playing good. Blame Lue for having him starting with Wade and ruining spacing.
I don’t hate him. Personally or even playing wise. But I know he can’t be an efficient contributor here on the team. He needs lots of the ball in his hands to be effective. He’s not a shooter. He can’t stop nobody. Never been a fan of this signing since.
Really tired of “buckets” being attached to player name as their nick name. Announcers suck for the timberwolves okc game.
Also didn’t know people refer to Towns as Kat. Blah. NBA needs to hire some consultants to come in and spice up the nickname game. Nicknames in my hick hometown are way more creative than 90% of crap nicknames in this league.
Towns is pretty darn good though.
reeeeeeeaaally good. Im impressed. But Ive seen it before in AD. Davis, in fairness of him, has been injured majority of the time. I hope both of them fulfill their potential.
The Wolves have done a much better job of building up a roster than the Pelicans though. Feel like injuries or not Davis was always doomed in New Orleans.
O.K. THE MAGIC JUST DESTROYED THE SPURS——-GUESS THAT SHOULD MAKE US FEEL SOMEWHAT BETTER —RIGHT ?
VINTAGE I WILL ADD A 4TH GRIPE—-4 )—NOT GIVING ” REAL ” MINUTES AT ALL TO CEDI OR ANTE —-WE NEED TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DOING IN “REAL ” GAME SETTINGS / NOT GARBAGE —-WHAT ARE THEIR STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES / WHERE –WHEN CAN THEY BE BEST UTILIZED / DO THEY NEED TO STAY UP OR GO TO CANTON / ARE THEY TRADE MATERIAL / COME NEXT APRIL—- CAN WE COUNT ON THEM FOR ANY MINUTES AT ALL——–THIS IS 1 REAL PROBLEM I ( WE ) HAVE WITH TY ——NOT DEVELOPING THE YOUNG TALENT
Not overreacting to Lue quite yet – mainly because there are several explanations for our losses – 2nd night of a back to back, no Rose/Wade/IT, adjusting to new personnel. Honestly if Love or JR make a few more open 3s, we could be 4-1, if not 5-0. That doesn’t mean criticism of him isn’t valid. My biggest gripes so far are: 1. Not force feeding Love more after repeatedly saying that was a major focus in the offseason 2. Letting Shump have too much freedom 3. LeBrons minutes Some positives: 1. Bench scoring and using 10 people in the… Read more »
Bad defense. I expect lack of effort and energy, but we are again running into the issue of guys not knowing where to be or just straight up getting lost. This was a major issue all last year including the finals.
I think they have a lot of new guys this year.
Sure, but that doesn’t explain why guys like Smith or Shumpert lose guys. I wonder if they practice defense. I mean I doubt they practice much compared to other teams in general, but for the last three years they have really struggled at knowing when, where, and how to rotate in a defense that hasn’t changed all that much.
76ER’S MORE OR LESS PUTTING OKAFOR ON TRADE BLOCK—–WOULD YOU TRADE T.T. STRAIGHT UP FOR OKAFOR —-BRINGS MORE OFFENSE —–WOULD 76ER’S CONSIDER THAT DEAL
Absolutely not. Okafor is garbage
Seriously? How is a back to the basket power forward with lousy defensive skills remotely useful on this team?
Okafor is probably more useful than his rep, but I don’t see him helping a Lebron team. Deandre Jordan would be a much better fit. (And of course be much more expensive, since he’s a much better player)
Lue firing would be the best for the tem
DAHTNAY JONES AT CAVS PRACTICE TODAY ——-GUESS WE AREN’T GOING TO WAIT UNTIL PLAYOFFS TO BRING HIM BACK—–GOODBYE JOSE
Do you think pop would come here for 100 million?
Can NBA coaches have an ownership stake in their team? That’s probably what it would take to get him.
And even then it’s a long shot. Will a Hall of Fame coach in the latter stages of his career (he’s 68) leave the culture he has done so much to build?
Pop is retiring with the juggernaut he helped create. He is the best coach of all time and doesn’t have anything more to prove so he wouldn’t go anywhere else. Though if Gilbert wanted to make pop a ridiculously amazing offer it would be the best move Gilbert has ever made as an owner.
JAMEIR NELSON WILL GO FOR 20 + AGAINST CAVS TOMORROW ( ALSO YOU WATCH ” THE BROW ” WILL PLAY TOMORROW ) AND IT WON’T BE 3 PT SHOTS THAT KILL US BUT BOOGIE AND THE BROW WILL PROBABLY COMBINE FOR OVER 80 PTS ——LET’S SEE NELSON OR ‘FORKED JOSE ” WHO WOULD I PREFER AS BACK UP PT GD ——CORBY WILL OUTLAST CLULESS AND YES COULD SEE JACKSON OR JVG IN TO REPLACE HIM
Part of the problem is the terrible free agent decisions the Cavs made. Think thabo or tony allen would’ve helped perimeter D a little?
I’ve got Lue lasting till mid January at the latest.
Who replaces him?
Putino.
He did do so well with the Celtics, did he?
“Didn’t do so well”
I was referring to the bastard child of Putin and Pitino. I was also kidding.
My guess would be JVG or (ugh) Mark Jackson.
A Gilbert guy I wouldn’t hate? Bill Lambier.
He could always go back and lowball Billups?!
Please no on both accounts. The Van Gundy’s are relics and Mark Jackson? I shudder at the thought.
Mark Jackson would be a good coach for Cavs team. I can imagine JR Smith playing well under him.
You of all people should know how much Jackson held back the warriors. No thanks.
how did Marc Jackson hold back the Warriors? Were they supposed to win 70 games that year too?
His offense was horrifically simple and misused Curry entirely. Bball breakdown has a whole video on it.
I mean with the almost the exact same team they go from winning 51 games with Jackson’s offense to winning 67 games, generally looking unbeatable for most of the year and winning a championship. Kerr completely instituted the most efficient offense the league has had in like 10 years in a single offseason, something Jackson in three years.
Installed
Jackson couldn’t do
He did alright with the Knicks. He doesn’t seem to really like the NBA though.
Interesting. I forgot he’s looking.
How long for Corby?
Corby=Gilbert’s mouthpiece.
As long as Cols luvs Corby, Corby ain’t going anywhere…
Shump+Frye+2nd rd pick for Mirotic
Barf. I’d rather have Frye.
ya, not sure Lue wants frye.
But getting rid of Shump…
How about Luc Mbah a Moute for the absolute minimum? Cavs offseason free agent additions were horrible.
Mbah a moute was following Paul.
Ben. Top seven protect the Nets pick, otherwise Cavs pick? Would you do it for Bledsoe then?
I’d definitely do that.
Count me in the group that is livid that Lue has taken Crowder out of the starting lineup. This guy was top 20 in rpm in the league last year – one of the best two way players in the league. Now he’s out? This is beyond dumb. Pick a strategy and stick to it, coach? How can any of these guys improve if you’re switching the D and the lineups every single game? Rant over. Thanks for a great piece, Ben.
Vardon said the five players on the second unit practicing in NYC today were Green, Crowder, Wade, Frye and and Korver. Wonder if Shump is now out of the ten man rotation.
He should be.
I’ll be honest and say I like Crowder as LeBron’s backup as opposed to his sidekick.
Yeah, in the 4th quarter, when the game is on the line, Crowder will probably be in, but I think we need him more to supplement LeBron’s minutes/scoring when LeBron is resting. Wade can’t be the only one.
Like I posted before, our starting lineup wasn’t the problem last year, it was our bench that would destroy any lead we had or would allow a big one to happen against us.
I’m okay with Crowder coming off the bench.
The only thing is, Crowder being on the court WITH LeBron let’s LeBron not be on their best wing.
That’s why I said for the last half of the 4th both should be in. But at that point LeBron would have rested enough with Crowder backing him, that he won’t be gassed.
Or Lue made him a starter?!
Yep. It’s almost as though Lue is trolling us now.
Crowder better be the first off the bench. He really should lead the team in minutes. Sigh.
This is insane. That lineup will have zero spacing. Two guys who can shoot threes off LBJ playmaking, one of which is cold as ice and the other who needs 5 seconds per shit attempt. Corwder didn’t have a quick release either but at least teams had to close out on him. Once again Lue’s lineup decisions are questionable.
Lue is a decent coach. Not great. Not atrocious. Decent. If we need him to be great to win then we’ll lose. He’s not a talent developer. I don’t think he ever will be. With an unsteady front office ( because they are new ) and volatile ownership a decent coach is probably the best we can hope for. Either lebron can get it out of the team without getting injured or he can’t. Lue isn’t going to move the needle either way.
i think “not great” describes my opinion of him.
My biggest issue with Lue is that he will not develop young players, or use them in regular season games. It’s beyond frustrating to watch LeBron play 41 minutes any given night, while not playing guys we drafted or traded for. What’s the point of having these guys on the roster? If someone isn’t playing well… cough… Shump… try putting Cedi in? If Love is turning the ball over and is tired put in Zizik.
The worst that can happen is we lose. Which we’ve now done on both back to backs anyhow. There is zero reason whatsoever for those two to log 15 total minutes against Orlando and 0 total minutes against the Nets.
Can we be honest with ourselves and openly admit that everything went right for the Cavs when they won the championship in ’16? What exactly has Lue done to show us that he’s a good coach? Kyrie’s game didn’t develop. Young talent hasn’t grown. Players we signed didn’t help, although I think Enchilada would had. Rotations during the finals were bad. Etc. Etc. We were lucky to get LeBron back and even luckier to have won in ’16. Besides the horrid East that has now gotten better, helping LeBron cakewalk to the finals. Lue is a bad coach. The fact… Read more »
I mean, I’m certainly not a Lue apologist. I didn’t like it from day one and never have. Maybe he’s good at managing player relationships, maybe not, we don’t see behind the closed doors too much. But you’re right, he has lucked into LeBron and has been riding him into the ground ever since. Maybe Blatt was a tool but he was definitely at least TRYING to implement some stuff. Plus, our defense was way better under him.
https://twitter.com/RoadTrippinPod/status/923695782926065664
LeBron’s going to LA now /s
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/923921148525588481
So once again we’ve forgotten the lessons of the last three years that the Cavs peak in the playoffs. I’ll check back in May, the doom and gloom and Lue sucks takes are just way too much to handle.
Peaking off at the playoffs and then losing 4-1 in the finals is not something I’d rather do again. The plan should be to develop as many weapons as possible to have ready for the Dubs. Playing Shump over Cedi is ridiculous, considering Shump sucks and hasn’t shown he can be the player he was in ’15. Playing Frye only 5 minutes is ridiculous, specially on the second of back to back games. Not playing Zizic, who I think could be a great contributor is ridiculous, specially in the beginning of the season when you can try new things and… Read more »
I don’t believe you are leaving the blog until May.
Cols, you must have forgotten that after playing abysmal defense all season last year, we were trounced by the Warriors because… we couldn’t play defense. Didn’t we have a historic ORTG in the Finals, only to be outdone by the Warriors’ ORTG?
Regardless of whether we are playing defense in the playoffs, it is still important to evaluate how the team progresses now. I don’t care what sport we are talking about, you can’t simply ignore defense for 98% of the season and then “turn it on” when it matters most.
I mean, should our recaps and posts be nothing but “The Cavs are awesome and will be more awesome in May”? Sounds like pretty bland sports analysis…
Seeya in two days.
We’re a week and a half into what is normally training camp. Regression and progression to mean will happen for most teams.
The Cavs have a lot of issues at the moment, but that kind of should have been expected turning over half of the roster, and losing their high point man from a year ago. Hell, Kyrie is still adapting to Boston and is averaging 20.8 a game.
Ben, patience has to be a virtue with the Cavs on defense particularly. Nowhere to go but up. The Cavs now rank dead last in defending threes, and have given up TWELVE more three pointers than any other team. Yes, we can say its October and the Cavs peak later in the year, but that is plain pathetic. And of course we have given up this barrage against inferior teams and not the Dubs or Houston. If David Griffin were still here, he would be forced to say this team isn’t “galvanized.”
The Calderon signing continues to be baffling. Someone here mentioned it as a panic move after the PG market dried up. That looks to be 100% correct. The guy is garbage. So is Shump. Those two shouldn’t see minutes.
Maybe Cedi isn’t getting minutes because he is not that good….it’s fine in October and November to explore lineups and see what’s working. The Rose injury made things worse than usual. Once everyone comes back (including IT) Cavs should be in good shape.
You can’t get better if you don’t play. There is a reason why people play rookies who aren’t that good at the beginning of the season. Maybe he isn’t that good right now. But if you develop him over the course of the season there is a chance he could give valuable rest to LeBron or anyone else come playoff time when they need fresh legs the most.
I am hoping the reason is that Cedi is so tired from being coached by LBJ in the gym that he needs a few days to adapt.
Well, that’s the most optimistic theory I’ve heard yet. I hope you’re right Simmo. I have two theories. My first is a “good coach theory” which is that Cedi is having a lot of trouble adjusting to NBA speed and they have him covering Bron in practice to help him adjust so they can start to use him in the next couple weeks. Even my good coach theory irritates me. My “bad coach theory” is that Lue is bad and won’t play anyone who doesn’t have a recognizable name…
I think you are right JMay. I watched the Bucks/Celtics game last night and Liggins for the Bucks again showed solid defense at the perimeter as he did with the Cavs. He showed more toughness and hustle than virtually anyone on the Cavs on D. And of course after touting his contributions early last season – and passing virtually everyone’s eye test on being solid – Liggins rides Lue’s bench the balance of the year and is released. It’s a waste to have any young talent on Cleveland with Lue pulling the strings.
You had me up until you used Liggins as an example. How many teams has this guy been on? No matter how many people here want to act like he’s some elite defender that we blew an opportunity to develop, he has yet to stick with any team in the NBA.
I’d love to see Cedi play. We don’t watch this team practice. We have zero idea whether he is doing the things in practice necessary to garner playing time.
I sure don’t believe Liggins is an elite defender, but he is competent and gives effort. Jason Kidd has played him 18 minutes in three separate games. Maybe he does stick with the Bucks. It’s just good to see someone actually hustle
He scored 0 points. Had 0 rebounds. And 1 assist in 15 minutes. -7. He’s still not good.
They aren’t playing him for points and assists. Rebounds might be a legit gripe but if he is always guarding a shooter/scorer, he likely isn’t in position to rebound from the start. And throw -7 for plus/minus out the window because it doesn’t take into account that he is probably guarding their best scorer when the second unit is in. This would be like Liggins guarding Kyrie when Kyrie is running the second unit for us.
When kyrie WAS guarding the second unit. Last year. Man, still strange.
Liggins was clearly better than other guys who played, particularly Shump.
It’s downright silly Cedi hasn’t gotten more time already with two back to backs. Hard to imagine what Lue is thinking there.