Recap: Pacers 124, Cavs 107 (Or, More Of The Same)
2017-11-01https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aj9_8t1eQc
There’s an old adage this Cavs team reminds me of. It’s not uttered much by people over the age of 14. It goes something like this: “It sucks to suck.” It’s not a particularly deep statement, which is why it’s often said by people so young. And, that’s exactly why I’m using it here. Right now, the issues with Cavs can be recognized by fans of any age. Even non-basketball fans can recognize the problems for Cleveland during this four game losing streak.
The Cavs are simply letting opposing players get wide open. Sometimes, they’re open because Cleveland can’t decide who will cover who in transition, and sometimes they’re open because the Cavs can’t stop any pick and roll without at least two guys staying on one man. Sometimes even three guys on one man. That’s all there is to it.
The Pacers went 16-26 from deep tonight. That’s 61.5%. They shot 54.4% from the floor overall. That’s a serious issue. Darren Collison had 25 points (9-10) and went 3-3 from deep to go along five rebounds and eight assists. Victor Oladipo put up 23 points (9-20), hit five of his seven 3s, and handed out seven dimes. Those two hit alone hit more than the seven 3s the Cavs did.
Even Bojan Bogdanovic went off. He had 17 points going 6-9 from the floor and hitting three deep balls. Anyone can go off against Cleveland these days. And, it doesn’t matter how well LeBron James plays in a given game, it probably won’t be enough. The King had a very good game tonight. He scored 33 points and handed out 11 dimes. He had eight turnovers, but he was still the reason Cleveland didn’t lose by more.
And yet, the problems started with him. He was the original guy who let someone get hot who shouldn’t in the first quarter. James opened the first 12 with a fierce layup where he was fouled. He didn’t complete the 3-point play, but he went on to score eight total in the first. The man he was covering though, Bojan Bogdanovic, scored more than that. He scored ten going 4-4 from the floor and draining both of his 3s.
LeBron failed to get back down court on the first Pacers board of the night and Bojan drained a fifteen footer. A few minutes later the Cavs let the Pacers go on a 10 point run to go up, 16-10. During that run, seven of the Pacer’s points came from fast break buckets. Bojan broke free and got a 3-pointer in transition when LeBron failed to get back in time after throwing a bad pass to Oladipo. Somehow, the Cavs started the second quarter down just two, 30–28.
The Pacers were able to get the lead back though and showed that the entirety of Cleveland’s defense is bad. They brutalized Cleveland in the pick and roll in the second 12. The Pacers ripped off a Domantis Sabonis +1, a Corey Joseph jumper, and another Sabonis +1 driving layup back-to-back-to-back after simple pick and roll action. None of the shots were covered properly. Two Cavaliers were consistently on one Pacer while another Pacer roamed freely down the lane. It had me scrawling obscenities in my notes and yelling like a mad man, while my dog looked at me wondering what she did to deserve being around such an absurd amount of anger. After those three scores, the Pacers were up by six with 8:41 left in the quarter.
It would have gotten worse, but Lance Stephenson sparked the Cavs by striking LeBron in the groin and getting a flagrant one. LeBron drained both free throws, and J.R. Smith scored a deep-heave off an inbounds pass, after the ball was knocked out of bounds during the possession resulting from the flagrant. This turned into a 9-0 Cavs run where LeBron assisted on all three buckets to bring the Cavs close to even again before half-time.
During the third quarter, LeBron again had to keep Cleveland from dying. He went 4-5 from the floor for nine and handed out five more assists. And, that wasn’t good enough because the Pacers kept getting open. They shot 57% in the quarter and 75% of their buckets were assisted on.
The fourth quarter wasn’t better. No one on the Cavs was able to step up. LeBron had 14 of Cleveland’s 22 and six of their eight made field goals. The Cavs got within three with 7:08 left; however, they promptly let Oladipo drain a wide open 3-ball. They got within five with five minutes left; and, they promptly turned the ball over and let Collison drop an open 3-pointer in transition.
Gripes
- You probably noticed no Cavalier other than LeBron was really mentioned so far. That’s because they were all abjectly terrible. Derrick Rose had 19 points on 9-13 shooting. That’s not bad, but nearly all of his jumpers were of the, “I have the ball, and this is my offense, I do what I want” type. Look at his chart. He hits the shots Shump thinks he can hit just enough that some people will think they’re good shots and that he’s good.
- Dwyane Wade was a no show again. He bricked a 3-pointer so badly that it was a foot to the left of the rim.
- Kevin Love had 13 points and 13 boards, but he was 4-12 from the field and showed zero ability to stop anyone in the pick and roll.
- Speaking of the pick and roll. The Cavs can’t stop it. Thankfully, the league hasn’t really figured that out yet. No seriously, they haven’t. In the previous seven games, the Cavs are actually in the 93rd percentile against pick and roll ball handlers. They let them score just .64 per shot attempt. That’s third in the league. Against the roll man, the Cavs are in the 89th percentile allowing roll guys to score just .94 per attempt.
- Those numbers are just the result of teams heaving the ball out to the 3-line for open 3s instead of using the players involved in the pick and roll action. That changed tonight. The Cavs got roasted in both areas. Teams are going to realize they can have their pick and roll and open 3s too.
- Cleveland had just six fast break points, while the Pacers had 16.
- There is a lot more to complain about with this game, but I’m going to finish with the offensive positioning on the court right now. Jae Crowder is always above the break for 3s(He was 0-5 from deep). Why? He isn’t good there. He needs to go to the corner where he has been effective in the past.
- Rose, Wade, and Jeff Green seem to be in the corners all the time if they don’t have the ball. Why? They can’t hit corner 3s and don’t spread the floor. Teams just sag off of them and cramp floor spacing. Those guys should catch the ball below the arc with momentum towards the hoop. You do that by cutting. It must happen more.
Hypes
- There’s not much good that came out of this game. Although, I did like the shots Kyle Korver was getting. He finished with just five points and was 1-5 from deep; however, he had good looks. Flare screens work wonders to get shooters open. J.R. received a few nice flare screens, but he couldn’t capitalize either and went 2-6 from deep for six points.
- LeBron still cares. He was trying to will a win at the end.
- Jeff Green looked decent too. When he runs the floor and puts his head down, he can score in transition or on cuts. He had a very efficient game. He was 6-8 for 15 and took just one mid-range jumper.
- Cavs: The Blog’s own Nate Smith All-Star Thadeus Young destroyed the Cavs per usual. He had 26 points on 12-18 shooting. That’s probably a gripe, but if Nate’s even a tiny bit happy about that, that’s some happiness involved with this game and I’ll take it.
- The Cavs take on Washington Friday.
LOOK OUT TONIGHT —THE WIZARDS ARE TREATING THIS LIKE A PLAYOFF GAME —-SOMETHING TO PROVE— IT COULD BE A VERY UGLY NIGHT FOR THE CAVS
Hopefully the cavs use it as motivation to at least compete for 48 minutes even if they are collapsing on the court by the end from exhaustion.
I would not be surprised if they put up a better showing tonight, but hard for me to see them winning this one. Defense aside, they are not scoring enough, or efficiently enough. At least we’ll likely see some Zizic and Osman, for better or worse.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/926443421673381888
Well, at least we know he knows they are still on the team…
And what a play is
Honestly, Cavs have been an endless drama for 3+ years. I’m tired of it.
You sure it’s only 3 years?
The Cavs have had endless drama since LeBron announced he was jumping straight from HS to the draft…
In general the NBA is all about drama. It’s not just with the Cavs. And this is constantly fueled by the media.
It’s definitely a more intimate league than many other sports. Less players, closer to the action, etc.
Yeah, the media that covers the NBA eats all that stuff up. There are entire podcasts that basically cover NBA gossip/ off court stuff/ drama. It’s pretty tiresome, but I try to avoid that stuff.
so depressing to watch a horrible lakers roster be competitive and ours be blown own continually
They found a gem in Kuzma. I forgot they got Lopez and KCP. They actually have some decent nba starting talent on a roster I had thought basically would only have Nance and Clarkson as pretty good nba rotation players.
yeah i know…you kinda made my point for me. how has Luke Walton turned in a borderline playoff team (no really…they could find themselves in the 8 spot in a historically stacked western conference) and Tyron Lue has turned in a dud? I fully expect the Cavs to be 1-3 by season’s end, but can it really be that hard to compete with a roster of all stars and former all stars and a couple euro all stars?! by compete, i mean how hard can it be to find minutes for a borderline euro mvp and a good large body… Read more »
Because I forgot about KCP and Lopez, and the fact that Kuzma may be rookie of the year while being a plus contributor as rookie, and the fact that Randle is a very solid bench player as is clarkson, that team has more talent than I and I think most people thought. They are well coached, young, and hungry. It isn’t all that surprising to me that they might win 30-35 games this year now that I see/remembered the actual talent they have. As for the cavs, they haven’t changed the way they play on offense but have different pieces… Read more »
Damn… Lillard just hit a Kyrie 3 to win.
Lakers and Blazers playing hard tonight. Lakers came back from 18 down!
Re point 3: “Jeff Green looked decent too”. You must not have got the memo. The official CtB opinion is that Green sucks no matter what he does.
He’s basically Derrick Williams – playable with Lebron on the court, unplayable otherwise. Not a good shooter, so kind of worthless with Lebron…’playable’ doesn’t mean good. If he was a defensive dynamo it might be a different story, but he’s not. It’s not a mystery why he’s making the min.
*yawn* I’ve repeated that Green has had some nice moments and games, and even argued with Ben about it. Please stop pretending that there is some unified opinion that is ignorant of facts. I don’t appreciate having words put in my mouth.
Dwade gives a very calming honest interview – worth your time if you’re at defcon 2
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video/teams/cavaliers/2017/11/02/1712443/1509640071485-11-2-17-dwade-practice-1712443
Anyone watching SASvGSW? Nice to watch two competitive teams going at it, running plays….. .
….(sniff)….
Good game, but tough for Spurs no Kawhi. Pop just got ejected for tech.
What do you think of our rookie Bell ?
Great hair.
lol. warriors paid 3+ mils for Draymond lite. His IQ is off the charts for a rookie, defends moving feet, blocks shots and passes the ball really well. Not sure how so many teams missed him. His per 30 min stats are impressive.
https://twitter.com/DavidZavac/status/926117815387598849
https://twitter.com/uninterrupted/status/926244992594558976
Nate I am answering your comment here on the Irving trade. Zach Love reported in late August that the Bucks indeed offered Middleton and Brogdon for Irving
Which, I believe, a Bucks related source said was BS.
News we can use:
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/926200973672009728
Cavs should slap a top six protection on the Nets pick and move it for Bledsoe or another PG. This team isn’t competing for a championship with the backcourt it currently has. Otherwise they should ask LeBron if he wants a trade.
You don’t think Thomas theoretically coming back will help? If they did that they should include Rose and try to get someone else as well. No point in having him on the team if they get Bledsoe.
No. How does he help their atrocious d?
Not saying he does. I would hope his offense offsets his d. I also don’t see his d being that much worse than rose. I mean you know IT will at least try. No easy solution.
Then they can ride Shump, Green, and Rose to the tank. Trade Love for a pick and start the rebuild. The new core players being Crowder, Cedi, and Zizik.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yag56w4u
Plus Cleveland gets like 3-4 first round picks.
Plus some 1sts coming our way.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=yaapnfyj
I only want firsts if they are guaranteed to be top 6 this year. Here is the modification. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycmm5vqh The kings get the bucks first round pick this year and next, our 2017 first round pick top 7 protected this year, top 3 protected next year, and after that no protections. The kings also get our second round this year, and the bucks next year. We get the kings first round pick this year, no protections. Kings build around Fox, Parker, Middleton, and Thon Maker plus our pick when it falls out of protections. We get one of the highest… Read more »
I should mention, I wouldn’t really want to do even the trade I posted. I just don’t think you trade James unless he demands it publicly.
Yeah I doubt it too.
OEL I BELIEVE BY NOT SIGNING HAS SCREWED HIMSELF OUT OF ALOT OF MONEY—IF THEY WOULD TAKE SHUMP AND 2ND ROUNDER I MAY CONSIDER IT —JUST DON’T SEE WHERE HE MOVES THE NEEDLE THAT MUCH
Who not signing?
I think he means Nerlens Noel
GREAT WIZARDS GET MORRISS BACK AT THE SAME TIME WE LOSE T.T. —–COULD BE REAL UGLY TOMORROW NIGHT ——–WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE LOST 5 IN A ROW —AM SURE IT WAS PRE–LEBRON COMING HOME
Atlanta should be tanking right ?? May be Cavs should target Schroeder+Baze+Dedmon. Would you do nets #1 pick for those three guys ?
Yes
I like Baze but I hate Schroeder. Dedmon I’m fine with but that means we have to trade TT. Also, I’m fine with trading TT.
He is arrogant but he might be an emerging star or a Bev Taylor. Basically, Cavs need to do 1 to many trades, who will help this year and may be some to build around.
Other team that should be tanking Dallas Mavs. Noel can be had for right price.
I’m pretty sure that we are tanking also.
That’s the theory I’m currently running on.
If you’re going to do it, do it this season before the rule change. With the Cavs draft skillz, they could end up with the top two picks!
Blaze and Schroder are dopes.
What about this? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycm3t5jd picks going to Sixers and Suns in this case.
Somehow this nets us -6 wins lol those crazy elves.
I’d do it, not sure why Sixers or Suns would…Suns can get more for Bled, I imagine…
Well, that’s where you put in picks. The sixers have been trying to dump Okafor for a while now. They might take a discounted rate for him. For the Suns, maybe our first or the BKN pick gets it done for them. I don’t know. Just trying to get rid of Shump and get some perimeter defense. Think of a starting five of Bledsoe, Covington, Bron Crowder, and Love. Go back to bringing Rose off the bench with Covington, Korver, Okafor, JR, and if you need a big body (we don’t), you throw in Zizic. We don’t need a “rim… Read more »
I.T. GOING PUBLIC IN HIS SUPPORT FOR OKAFOR —–IS THEIR A POTENTIAL CAVS TRADE FOR HIM ?
UNFORTUNAELY —WADE IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE —-YOU JUST NEED TO LIMIT HIS MINUTES AND WHEN TO PLAY HIM——–JOSE IS A WASTED ROSTER SPOT —GEEZ ALREADY WAIVE HIM AND BRING UP HOLLAND OR BRING BACK ” ENCHILADA “—–DO NOT SEE ANY ASSISTANT COACHES I WOULD PROMOTE —-NEED TO START LOOKING / TALKING TO FACES OUTSIDE OF CAVS ORGANIZATION —-CHAUNCEY SAID HE WANTED TO COACH SOME DAY
Screw Chauncey.
SO YET WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING OF THE MINDS (TEAM MEETING )—NOT A GOD SIGN TO HAVE THAT MANY MEETINGS SO SOON INTO THE SEASON
Wonder what Corby’s feelings are on ‘galvanization’?
Not sure. Since we aren’t succeeding, this team shouldn’t be having any trouble. It’s only thru struggle that we can win games……..
Who is corby? I keep seeing this but I feel like it is a joke on this site that I never caught. Corby is Koby Altman right? What’s up with Corby?
I say this: Jeff Green is straight better than TT. Our best look last night was Green, Love, LeBron, JR, Rose. Green can play the small ball 5.
Our coaching sucks how can we not defend a pnr?
Maybe last night but not in the long run. I will say that Jeff Green could be good if he played to his talents. But he’s got Shumpism and a low b-ball IQ. The only coach that I believe could get through to him coaches in San Antonio.
I have seen Green make some intelligent moves out on the court. I would say it’s the inconsistency of his IQ. I attribute that to poor coaching.
Poor coaching from all the other teams he’s played for as well?
Well, I’m just saying it could be at least helped a little.
I think Green can help. Biggest issue is Lue telling the players to “Play your game”. No Lue, they are ROLE players. Give them a freaking role.
Another example of CtB groupthink on wacky ideas. Green has been one of the better players, and everyone keeps spouting reasons why he is not.
He doesn’t have a very good three point shot. I haven’t noticed him being particularly effective as a defender, though no one on the team has been. I will say that he has had some really good cuts and some good finishes. I just don’t think that’s as valuable right now as defense and outside shooting.
Yeah I’m not surprised you’re a fan of Green. I know what he is. The evidence is there. Sorry I don’t drink the Koolaid Raoul.
I am not a fan of Green. Because don’t have the secret insider knowledge that you do, I am forced to use reality based judgement. In the little bit of action that I have seen this year, Green is playing better than most on the team. Who do you think is playing better? More than 10 guys?
They sau TT is out for a month? Sucks.
Get well and come back better TT.
Considering he’s been horrible, maybe it will give the young guys a chance to show their talents.
Probably just more time for Love and Lebron, knowing Lue…
Okay so what to do and how to proceed??? Well, I give Lue 2-3 more games. If the Cavs, God forbid, lose them all, he should be fired. Of course problem with that is the fact that we don’t really have a replacement. Who in the current coaching staff could we upgrade temporarily to cover the spot? I really don’t follow assistant coaches, so I don’t really have an answer. If Coach Lue is gone, who’s available that could reel in this team? Regarding the team, I would start calling around for anyone interested in Wade. He’s not the player… Read more »
They won’t trade Wade under any circumstances. Employing him is part of their plan to keep Bron happy.
Larry drew is the logical choice for interem coach if they don’t bring in someone from outside. He’s been an HC before.
We have to get rid of Lue before we make any serious evaluations of the players. He is awful. I give hin until 20 games in to right the ship, at most.
SHUMP FOR OKAFOR STRAIGHT UP I WOULD DO OR THROW IN 2ND ROUND DRAFT PICK — OTHERWISE NOT INTERESTED
Okafor is available, a 20/10 guy but wouldn’t play D. Might be worth Cavs own pick plus shump. Cavs may need help with TT out.
Not interested.
Sure why not?
Shump is unplayable and a second round pick is rather useless with the talent recognition team we have.
Okafor is usable off the bench.
HERE IS ANOTHER (WILD ) THEORY — MAYBE LEBRON IS IN A SEASON LONG “CHILL MODE ” TO MAKE HIS DECISION THAT MUCH EASIER ———ALSO HATE TO ADMIT THIS BUT MAYBE “FLATLINER ” KY KNEW MORE THAN WE DID …AS FAR AS THE ATTITUDE / DEMEANOR OF THE TEAM / PROJECTED FUTURE AND MORE IMPORTANT HOW INEPT OF A COACH THAT CLUELESS REALLY IS —-WANTED TO GET OUT OF THAT ATMOSHPERE
I don’t know if LeBron would want to waste a whole season, specially this late in his career.
AGREE WITH YOUR THEORY ARCH—WIZ OR BUCKS —I AM GOING WITH THE BUCKS AS HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HUGE KIDD FAN AS SEEES AN OPPORTUNITY TO MENTOR HIS SUCCESSOR
IN PARTIAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU MIKE —–GUESS THERE ARE STILL SOME “UNKNOWNS “—-IS ANTE GOING TO BE A PLAYER WITH SOME POTENTIAL—WITH TY AS COACH WE WILL NEVER KNOW ——DOES THOMAS HELP US –AT LEAST OFFENSIVELY …….WHERE DOES THAT BROOKLYN PICK FALL/ WHO CAN WE GET….AND YES WE ALL THIUGHT WE WOULD GET A BETTER CROWDER —NEEDS TO FIND THE CORNER AND STAY THERE / TOP OF THE ARC SHOTS ARE NOT HIS STRENGTHS—-THE WAY THIS TEAM IS CONSTRUCTED WENT WITH “NAMES” INSTEAD OF “FITS “—THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY WAYS A TEAM CAN ATTACK US AND BE SUCESSFUL –ALSO… Read more »
I believe the Cavs would be a better team today if they had taken Brogdon and Middleton from Milwaukee for Irving. Middleton’s stats are 19/5/6 and Brogdon is 15/4/2 (pts/assists/boards). Middleton is 26 years old and Brogdon is 24. Crowder has been a huge disappointment so far at 8/1/3. He needs an exorcism. This guy is going to guard Durant if we make it that far? God help us. Yes, the Brooklyn pick may or may not mean the trade we made was better. But if we stink this bad and the year ends badly, James is gone, and I… Read more »
Completely agree on Brogdon/Middleton and I felt that way before the trade was made.
At the time, I said it would be a tough call to make. Would rather had had Griffin making this decision anyway.
I also thought Crowder would be better, and remain hopeful that he will.
Seems like he need time to adapt for new system.
This has already been discussed… offensively, there is no system. He is right to look/feel lost. “Make open threes and watch the ball handlers (try to) score” is kind of rec league, but it fits.
You can’t win a championship unless you go all in. This doesn’t work, trying to win and also secure the unsure future. Celtics were able to do that successfully but they could go only to as far as finals plus they had a reason not to trade their picks to contend or improve their chances to win championship the last two years, no move could have made them to favorites against Cavs and Warriors.
If you believe this deal was actually on the table. I don’t.
JMAY AGREEE WITH HOW WE WASTED DRAFT PICKS IN THE PAST—HOPEFULLY WE HAVE LEARNED —-I WOULD GET A VERY RELIABLE SCOUT TEAM OUT THERE FOR THIS UPCOMING COLLEGE SEASON
BUT WHY MAKE ANY TRADE— WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR—-I SAY HANG ONTO THAT BROOKLYN PICK——-WE HAVE TOO MANY HOLES TO FILL ( AS ARCH HAS REPEATEDLY SAID —I AGREE )——SORRY THAT I TAKE A PESSIMISTIC VIEW –BUT AGAIN WE HAD A NICE 3 YEAR RUN / WON A CHAMPIONSHIP—-NO WAY LEBRON IS COMING BACK NEXT YEAR —-LET THE REBUILD BEGIN WHILE WE STILL HAVE A FEW ASSETS TO DO SO
IF EVERYONE WANTS TO GET A GOOD LAUGH ( WE ALL ARE IN NEED OF THAT )—GO TO KJG AND READ THEIR 5 PROPOSED TRADES FOR A STAR PLAYER——WHAT A JOKE THOSE WRITERS ARE !!
I actually wouldn’t mind getting Murray and Faried…
No interest in Faried. He’s in the realm of Rose, Shump, and Green for me.
I’ve never read an article from that site. Didn’t hear any good reviews so I avoid it.
MIGHT AS WELL GO GET BOSH OUT OF RETIREMENT TOO—-ANOTHER ” VETERAN ” PAST HIS PRIME WOULD LOOK RIGHT IN PLACE ON THIS TEAM —–MEANWHILE THE “YOUTHFUL ” GUYS –CEDI / ANTE GET 33 SECONDS OF GARBAGE TIME —-WAY TO MOTIVATE CLULESS !!——–WITH T.T. HURT —THEY WILL PROBABLY BRING UP ANGRY SMURF INSTEAD OF GIVING “ZZ” PLAYING TIME
GOOD/ ACCURATE RECAP DAVID —-WOW WHERE DO WE START——YES POST GAME LEBRON SHOWED ALOT MORE FRUSTRATION THAN NORMAL——LEBRON IS SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THIS TEAM ISN’T GOING ANYWHERE ——MENTIONED LAST NIGHT I LIKE / SUPPORT KLOVE BUT HIS STOCK RIGHT NOW IS NOWHERE NEAR AS WHEN HE WAS A TIMBERWOLVE —-LENGTHY/ ATHLETIC BIGS GIVE HIM FITS AT BOTH ENDS ( THIS IS WHERE THE NBA HAS EVOLVED )——AM ACTUALLY JEALOUS ( BUT SOMEWHAT HAPPY ) FOR THE 76ER’S FANS AND COACH BROWN —-THEY GET TO SEE ALL THAT YOUNG TALENT FINALLY START TO DEVELOP / COMPETE—IF THEY STAY HEALTHY /… Read more »
We drafted Kyrie with the first pick in the draft the season after Bron left… From there we consistently drafted in the lottery and had no improvements. We couldn’t win a championship or even make the playoffs until Bron came back. This team can’t draft well. Trade. That. Pick. We’ll deal with the aftermath when there is an aftermath to deal with.
100 percent agree. But according to all the beat reporters Dan won’t trade it unless LeBron commits. He’s holding it over his head. So I don’t see the pick getting moved.
Ya, talk about two stubborn men. If I’m Bron, I sign that 5 year super max ASAP. He might be a robot, but even robots short circuit. He’s a smart businessman. Do you think he’s heard the adage about guaranteed money as opposed to theoretical money?
It’s different with Bron because he makes more with Nike, Endorsements, and Production company than NBA salary. Then again $200 M is hard to pass up. I think he’s gone if they don’t win a ship. My new conspiracy theory is he goes to the Wiz.
Or the Bucks.
A lot of people thought Wiggins was pretty decent.
The Cavs are currently 3rd to last in the EAST in a particularly bad year and 5th to last over all. We’ve all had the wool pulled over our eyes. The Cavs are actually tanking this season in order to try and get two top 5 draft picks and are restocking with youth for LeBron’s golden years…
Now that would be interesting.
Getting Rose, Green, and a washed Wade is a pretty effective way to tank…Corby is a low key genius…
See? No one even sees it coming because we are so “Star studded”. Brilliant.
They are all going through the motions. Too bad no one told them the right motions…
Here’s the lineup they should start: Frye, Love, Korver, Smith and LeBron. Then have two guys flaring to the corners while LeBron tries to drive. Four guys popping out is gonna free James and get us open 3s. Then let the offense run through the post on bench units with guys cutting more.
It’s not like this team can play defense at all so why not?
Nice recap BTW David, I think in all the angst we forget the content posted above that is informative for our gnashing/celebrating.
At least they could score, and compliment Lebron…
The sad thing is, I am not confident that the Cavs can or will make any moves to correct the problem. This “Switch On” idea is going to bite us in the derriere… I could easily see them making 82 games worth of excuses about how they will make it work come playoffs because LeBron doesn’t care about seeding only to get bounced in the second round.
I don’t think he’s cared recently about the seeding because he wants the contest. Wants the battle. Maybe to hone himself & his team for the finals. Right now, with this team, I don’t think he’d be quite so comfortable finishing below #1 seed.
Cavs need to stop thinking about the future (and the “finals”) and start thinking about the next game.
I think there’s currently 5 guys on this roster that almost impede the success of this team. 4 of them came from the Summer of Corby.
Expound?
Wade, Rose, Shump, Calderon (although to be fair he never plays), and Green.
Green was fine last night.
Fools gold
Rose, Wade, Shumpert, Calderon, and?
Green
Denial is a river in Egypt
https://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider/status/925908321705644039
LBJ also said that. Referring specifically to the late bombs that ended the contest.
I know. Everyone is in denial about how flawed this team is.
Kevin Love forgot how to play winning ball if he believes that.
The Cavs should only be allowed to play one of Rose, Wade, Shump, and Green in the same game. Those four should draw from straws before each game and who draws the short one gets to come off the bench.
Only watched 4th quarter of this game….the team defense is abysmal but can be easily fixed…thought effort was lost later in the game when Cavs pulled within 3 and then Pacers went off. Cavs aren’t realizing other teams are going ALL OUT to beat them. Weird to see in writing Rose ‘sucked’ when he shot 9/13 for 19 points. Thats a good game to me, not sure what one was looking for. While I think playing (comment edited) Zicic and Osman isn’t best idea, maybe they need to explore said option to get a run of like 3-5 min a… Read more »
“White guy stiffs?” — I didn’t realize you’ve pinpointed their potential. I guess I’d rather have the white guy stiffs over the Summer of Corby chucking and clanking Club.
White guy stiffs? I don’t wanna be to PC, but that’s a bit off IMHO and detracts from your otherwise valid points.
I’m quoting Leo’s post. They’re not my words.
Thought I was replying to Leo, apologies Arch.
No problem!
@Leo – apparently you haven’t seen much of Cedi or Zz to be making the “white guy stiffs” comments.
Zz moves better than TT, Love and Frye and can dribble to the basket from the arch and score. Let me know when TT does that.
Cedi put the moves against the Knicks(was it the Knicks?) and had some Kyrie type penetration for an easy layup. Let me know when Shump, Green or Wade do that.
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Cedi isn’t a Center though.
Don’t worry Jeff Green says they’ll fix it:
19. “Did I think we would be at this point? No. We have to go through something to get to where we want to be,” Jeff Green said. “For us, we’re lucky that this is happening now and not in April, not out there the last game of 82. We’ll fix it. It’s going to take some time, but we’ll fix it. I know that for a fact.”
Yeah I thought he gave a level-headed interview. Clearly upset but thoughtful & determined. I actually like what I heard from the locker room. Not so much the coach’s postgame.
Someone posted in the other thread that Jeff Green is essentially a polished turd. He plays well enough to make you think he’s good, only to disappoint you in the end. He’s helped make Orlando, Memphis, LAC all play significantly worse. These teams are better without him. Corby was too busy selling predatory loans and wasn’t paying attention to the sucktitude of Jeff Green.
Totally understand yr perspective. Perspective on other players, eg JR, was similar. My jury is out on him right now, because I think HOW he is used by the Cavs could make the difference. I liked his game last night, played great D and explosive on offense….when cutting! Very few pull-up jumpers or 3 attempts. If the Cavs make it to the finals (hard to see right now, yes) he may be important in somewhat countering KD. All of that will require judicious coaching….whether THAT is present is in serious question right now.
If Lue is smart I can’t see him giving Green any minutes in the finals. In addition to Green being fools gold, I think Rose also falls into that category. Both would be as abysmal as Deron Williams was in the finals. Shump isn’t fools gold, he’s just a fool. Wade is old and ready for the glue factory on most days.
So, none of them off the bench? Who is left? I take it you are advocating significant trade activity.
I think one at a time is fine. I don’t like having a bunch of non-shooters on the floor at the same time.
Furious agreement.
The difference also being that JR is an elite 3 point shooter and can stretch the floor for LeBron. The Summer of Corby couldn’t stretch a rubber band.
Or more appropriate “fools gold.”
How many coaches can Corby and Dan pay at once? Bring back Mike Brown just to fire him a 3rd time!
Pacers GM deserves kudos for the ballsy Oladipo trade if his play keeps up. He’s an all star, collison is a competent guard, Thad will be a good RPM guy this year, miles turners is a very promising young player, and Bogdanovic can score. Lance gives their bench an identity. Pacers are a playoff team right now. Good for them.
I’m just baffled by anyone who thinks Lue isn’t a huge part of the problem right now. The team seems so poorly coached. The unwillingness to play younger guys who can at least run and frye who can at least stretch the floor, is baffling. Lue’s excuses and answers to these problems are beyond lame.
Not that I Agee with Lue, but I think he’s essentially trying to build some semblance of cohesion. If we keep switching the rotations, lineups incessantly I sadly think we’ll keep seeing the same results. I do think we should try to Channing at the 5 with the starters for some more floor spacing.
I meaning Channing at the 5, if TT is out…
I would love to see a CtB breakdown of how the game looks from Lue’s perspective and why he isn’t making various choices at specific times
None of us understand his choices…
Good recap, David. I’ll note that the reason the Cavs got smoked in transition, especially in the first half, was that either they were lazy or because at times a whopping three guys were going for offensive rebounds some from the wing and high post. It was insane. Lots of teams don’t even go for o-boards against certain teams, and when TT is one the floor, he should be the only one doing it. Cavs were getting consistently outrun when they did this. And going from the wing and high post? You’re so far out of position at that point,… Read more »
They should just get back…not like they were getting offensive boards anyway…
I have been waiting _years_ for this sentence to not be parody, but I really hope the Cavs can beat the Pistons and am looking forward to a new age of Cleveland-Detroit rivalry.
I’d be shocked.
why not bring back mike brown the 3rd time around, maybe he can bring some life
What about Byron Scott? /s
Happy to see the Astros (worst going a couple years ago) thump the Lakers. Go American League!!!
Blah… I’m still bitter.
If Lue wants to send a message to his players then start Holland, Cedi, Zizik, LeBron, and Love.
Good job, David. The defense is one thing, but on offense the floor spacing is terrible, and it’s just so predictable. IT would help, yes, but this roster is still kind of a mess. A predictable mess. Predictable is the best word – none of this should surprise anyone.
If the Cavs aren’t going to defend anyone, they need to play Frye a lot more.
Last years starting five has at least 3 floor spacers 4 if you include Lebron. This year, Only Kevin Love Smith and 3 if you include Lebron. With JR sucking. In this game of outside shooting and spacing having Rose and Wade in an line-up specially in their washed versions of these two is surefire poison.
Yeah, Wade and Rose together is awful. Especially since Wade is highly diminished now from his prime. Lebron is best on a spaced floor with shooters, something Griffin understood well, but Corby apparently does not. ‘Names’ impress some people, even if the names are bad fits or just suck. Witness the people who were oohing and ahhing about the offseason signings.
You are right. Corby should have signed Larry Bird and Reggie Miller. They would play for the minimum.
Ok so, I couldn’t watch the game, but it sounds from the recap the defensive problems were a large part due to poor execution and mental mistakes. That is correctable. I would even say the pick and roll defense is fixable via scheme and lineup adjustments. For instance, wouldn’t love be better served defending 1-5 p and RS than 1-4. Again they played their best in an extremely small sample size when love was at the 5 and defending 5s, no? At least he might have the mobility to keep up with rolling 5s or wouldn’t have to close on… Read more »
Good to see you still have your optimist hat on. Mine got lost.
Is Lue’s job in danger now if not already ??
With Gilbert, who knows…Corby’s should be in more danger, but he’s cheap, so probably safe…
I don’t know. I haven’t been able to watch the last three games. I may be grasping at straws. The thing that would utterly kill my optimism is if the most of the team was playing near 100% effort and/or they weren’t making mental mistakes or poorly executing coverages. If it literally seemed like the vast majority of most of the mistakes came from guys just not being able to keep up or move laterally quickly enough, then I would say we are forked. Pun intended.
Tonight it wasn’t as much laziness, they just sucked. The offense is the bigger problem, because it’s unfixable. It’s terrible team construction. But Gilbert showed Griff what’s what, so I’m pumped about that…
I do wonder what effect having Thomas (2016 form) in the lineup will have on the offensive structure. Obviously will add scoring himself, but whether it gels into a fluid offense that opposition fears is another question.