Recap: Sacramento 109, Cleveland 95 (or, Whine Country)
2017-12-28The Cavs could not keep their heads in the game for more than a few minutes at a time, and Sacramento seized the opportunity to put the Cavs down late, as they held the Wine and Gold to just 15 fourth quarter points, while putting up 24 of their own. Much was made before the game of the Cavs’ impending Wine Country trip (on the 28th) and it looked like the Cavs’ minds were elsewhere through much of the game as careless turnovers, poor ball movement, bad defensive execution, and (again) an inability to get key rebounds and loose balls doomed them.
The Kings shot 51% to the Cavs’ 43%, and Sacramento’s bench destroyed Cleveland. Sactown’s non-starters racked up 68 points to Cleveland’s 32. The quadragenarian, Vince Carter, shattered his previous season high of eight to drop twenty-frickin-four on the Wine and Gold, mostly on a hapless Kyle Korver who got in a hole defensively and never climbed out. Carter started out swishing threes, then took Korver into the post. Kyle was -27 for the game, though much of it was due to Dwyane Wade’s lousy point guard play.
You ever look at a box score and swear it can’t be right? Wade was -20, with five points on 1-3 shooting and only one turnover, but I counted a lot more throwaways than that. Flash routinely led the the team into offensive sets that either put up a rushed shot that was ill conceived (like Dwyane walking into three point attempts while ignoring wide open, much better shooters) or offensive sets that bogged down because of an inability to get penetration that led to open shots. Too much dribbling was the theme of the night as Wade and LeBron both looked very sloppy with their handle while guys like George Hill made them pay by getting steals or tying them up for jump balls. Side note, if you force a jump ball in the NBA and then win it, it’s not scored as a steal in the box score, Hill had more than one of these.
The Live thread made much of Tristan’s first quarter appearance and the offense bogging down immediately upon his arrival. Indeed, Thompson was -8 in the quarter and he appeared to stymie much of the Cavs’ offensive flow. Part of the problem is that his teammates appear reluctant to throw TT anything other than a lob pass. Teammates routinely ignored him on cuts (not hard cuts, mind you) where the passing angle was a bounce pass or a quick pass off the dribble. Perhaps they read Ben’s article yesterday and new that TT in the post is mostly a lost cause. The other problem is that Thompson played with Kyrie Irving for too long. Thompson is just bad sometimes at timing his roll and sticks on the screen way too long. Probably from years of being crossed up and acting as Irving’s fullback instead of being allowed to be a dive man. The coaching staff needs to work with him on this.
It was definitely a game of runs, and Sacramento overcame Cleveland’s early 12-4 and 23-18 advantages to make their run to get back in the first quarter by outscoring the Cavs 10-4 in the final two minutes. LeBron inexplicably left Bogdonavic open at the top of the key for three, Vinsanity wore Korver like a cape on a right baseline cut for a reverse, James’s bad handle gave Hield a dunk, and Tristan Thompson showed awful defensive shot clock awareness when he let Bogdan swish a 22-footer over him as the quarter clock expired.
It was funny that on the Live Thread Arch Stanton proposed a trade of Thompson, Shumpert, and the Cavs’ first rounder for Koufos and George Hill, to which I replied, “Problem is Cauley-Stein is a better version of TT.” The second quarter started with an ill omen as Willie Cauley-Stein tipped in an oop from Carter then raced back down the court to block Wade at the rim. Stein throttled the Cavs the rest of the night, racking up 17, nine rebounds, four assists and just a game high +28 as he absolutely owned the paint on offense and defense in his 36 minutes. Cleveland had no answer for him, or rather they refused to use their answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKPYs63MWVA
When I say “refuse,” it’s because the Cavs seem to constantly forget when they have a red hot Kevin Love. Love only scored 23 on 12 shots from the field and his jumper looked like butter, but he couldn’t get the ball. Cleveland spent much of the second and fourth quarters ignoring him after Love scored 11 in the first and eight in the third. Matching Love up on Cauley-Stein and pulling Willie out of the paint seems like a no-brainer adjustment that the Cavs’ refused to make. In Lue’s defense, Kevin picked up a cheap fourth foul which sent him to the bench early in the third, after Kevin Love and J.R. combined for four threes (all on dimes from LeBron) to go on a 12-2 run which put the Cavs up one.
Cleveland seemed energized then, but blew soo many opportunities after getting the lead back that much of their energy went to waste. After a James steal, Crowder got swatted on a chase-down by Garrett Temple, on a play where Jae looked like he needed to make a New Year’s weight loss resolution. Still, there were some brilliant plays, like Love with a nice cut and finish of a LeDime, and James dunking all over Bogdan Bogdanovic.
LEBRON JAMES. #NBAVOTE https://t.co/4xs0GUm8vr
— Cleveland Cavaliers (@cavs) December 28, 2017
But LeBron missed his next three shots and turned it over as Love fouled his way to the bench. Channing Frye came in and mostly stunk for three minutes, and Lue went back to Tristan. Thompson rewarded Ty with a tip-in, and the Cavs cut the deficit to just two before this awful defense and ridiculous Carter shot on the longest possible inbounds pass, put the Kings up 85-80 as the buzzer droned to end the third.
At the tail end of that clip you’ll see Vince stroking a 28-footer over a helpless Korver midway through the fourth. It was pretty much the story of the final 12 minutes; the Kings just had too much rhythm to be put to bed. James started with a turnover and a settle three (miss) before Bogdan and Cauley-Stein pushed the Kings’ lead to nine. Cleveland wouldn’t score in the fourth until 8:21 when Korver finally hit a three (after a miss and stepping out of bounds – on a bad James pass). Amazingly, after checking in at the 10:06 mark, Kevin Love did not get a fourth quarter shot till six minutes later, while Korver had six looks (making two). This came despite a surprisingly hot J.R. Smith (15 points 5-7 from three on the night) sitting till the 5:11 mark. As I noted in the Live Thread, Dwyane Wade was a waste of space on both ends of the floor.
Meanwhile, Sacramento rode Carter, Bogdanovic, and Cauley-Stein to 65% shooting to the Cavs 33% in the final frame. Stein dunked unmolested on drives, cuts, and lobs. Vince Carter abused whoever was guarding (or not guarding him), and the Kings put up a 24-15 fourth quarter. To say the Cavs were already thinking about their Malbecs would be an understatement.
Yay!
One silver lining: it was a great night for the Nets’ pick. Sacramento, Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, and Memphis all picked up wins while the Nets lost. Brooklyn is one of four teams sitting on 12 wins, with four teams sitting on 11 wins, and one team on nine wins.
Lose, baby, lose. J.R. got his shot back and led the team with +5 in plus/minus, and Kevin looked hot. George Hill looked like a perfect bench guy for Cleveland, and the Cavs should be targeting him.
Boo!
Dwyane Wade was hot garbage, and the Cavs gave Kyle Korver absolutely no defensive help. Lue waited way too long to adjust and the Kings abused Kyle. Korver is a good team defender, but you can’t leave him on an island. Lue pushed all the wrong buttons. Questionable decisions included just 22 minutes for Calderon (team high +13), not getting Kevin the ball, and very little Cedi Osman (barely old enough to drink wine). But Lue’s not the one out there taking bad shots and not defending.
But, Lue’s switching scheme was a disaster this game. Players were consistently late or in the wrong spot.
The Tristan Thompson narrative is snowballing. His fans are losing confidence. The Cavs have to either bench him or figure out something he can be good at. Right now, he’s good at nothing.
Tristan Thompson fans… I need something to make me feel good about his game… anything.
— realcavsfans.com (@realcavsfans) December 28, 2017
My least favorite LeBron move is the yell at the ref for a foul that obviously wasn’t a foul, and the yell at his teammate move for his screw-up. James did this both in this game. That’s not leadership, it’s whining. When he does it, James gets into really petulant habits that infect the team. I saw Kevin Love stare at a loose ball that went right by him in the fourth. The Cavs were out of craps to give in this game.
Meh.
The team wanted it’s mini-vacation and their heads were clearly elsewhere against a team coming off a back-to-back. The Kings often proves problematic, and they dropped one in Sacto in 2015. It’s annoying, but I’m not losing any sleep over it (hence the late AM post). Still, the entire pre-game, midgame, and postgame stuff was all about this trip, and after putting a postage stamp on this one, the Cavs kind come off like a-holes. It was enough to tick off even the most casual of Cavs fans. And after Friday morning’s wine headaches, and a full practice Friday, I’m not counting on a win over the Jazz, Saturday. But who knows? The team certainly needs to practice.
The Cavs refused to make the Kings pay for going big with Cauley-Stein. They didn’t exploit Kevin in the fourth and the Cavs’ lack of a center that can play with force burned them. Again, not losing too much sleep over it.
After an MVP November and first half of December, LeBron’s been good-not-great for the last two games, going 13-35 with 11 turnovers, 20 assists, and 16 rebounds. He’s third in the league in turnovers with 152 (to DMC’s whopping 170). Remember, James always gets the seasonal affective in January. It’s going to probably get worse before it gets better. Hang in there Cavs fans.
Magic got Gordon back & beat Detroit sans Jackson tonight. Wins:
9 = Hawks
11 = Mavs, Grizz, Lakers
12 = Magic, Kings, Nets, Hornets, Bulls
13 = Suns
14 = Clippers
At the moment, Boston would claim the Lakers pick as it is 2-5. Tomorrow:
Nets at Miami
Hawks at Toronto
Pacers at Bulls
Mavs at Pels
Suns at Kings
Hornets at Warriors
Clippers at Lakers
Go Heat, Go Lakers.
Watching some London Perrantes highlights. Either that guy has some epic court version or the Canton Charge coach needs to takeover as our offensive coordinator. Does it make sense that a guy would look that good assist wise in the G League and not have it carry over to pros?
I would have thought that passing would carry over better than scoring.
And, the list does not take into account college years. Everyone but Bron & Kobe spent years in college. Kareem won 3 titles, Russell 2, MJ & Magic 1. Oscar made 3 Final Fours. Bird a Final. Wilt a Final & played a year with the Globetrotters.
Those are 3-4 years where those players couldn’t get NBA titles or pile up numbers.
Most importantly none of these numbers consider the opposition or quality of teammates.
Tru that. But in terms of getting TO the Finals, Bron ranks kind of low in strength of opposition. Big 3 Celts & Pistons only notable ones. Finals comp is stiffer with Duncan’s Spurs & GSW being 6 of 8. Lot of strength elsewhere too. However, Wilt had Russell’s Celtics, Kareem/Oscar Bucks, and the 5 HOFer Knicks to deal with. Not to mention Oscar/Lucas Royals. Bird & Magic had each other plus Dr Js 76ers early and the Bad Boys Pistons & MJ’s Bulls late. Shaq/Kobe Lakers probably rank lowest on strength of opposition. Duncan’s Spurs early on & nada… Read more »
Plyr-Yrs/Full-Reg 1/2/3/MP/<500–T/F/SF
Russell: 13/13, 9/2/1/0/0, 9/12/13.
MJ: 15/13, 3/2/1/2/5, 6/6/8.
Kareem: 20/20, 5/9/1/2/2, 6/10/14.
Wilt: 14/13, 4/3/3/1/1, 2/6/12.
Magic: 13/11, 3/6/2/0/0, 5/9/10.
Bird: 13/11, 6/2/1/0/0, 3/5/8.
Duncan: 19/19, 4/6/3/0/0, 5/6/9.
Oscar: 14/14, 2/3/2/4/4, 1/2/3.
James: 14/14, 3/0/2/2/1, 3/8/9.
Mikan: 9/7, 3/4/0/0/1, 7/7/8.
Shaq: 19/14, 2/2/3/2/0, 4/6/9.
DrJ: 16/16, 2/6/2/0/0, 3/6/9.
Kobe: 20/18, 1/2/4/4/4, 5/7/8.
LeBron is still playing, obviously, but it is hard to look at those numbers & conclude James is top 3 unless you are wearing wine & gold glasses. Admittedly, team success is not the only barometer…
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
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Might be hard, but LeBron is likely #1, and top 3 without a doubt.
I don’t doubt that you have put a lot of effort into coming up with these numbers, and they might be as good as any other numbers, but even the best numbers are a so-so match for best player.
To continue the whole LeBron thing, no way is he top 3. Here is a handy comparison chart for who most would consider the top 13 guys.
For each player I will give you 3 data areas.
1. Years played/full years (defined as 2/3 of games played).
2. Regular season success: times their team had the #1 record, #2 record (including losing tb for #1) , #3 record, times missed POs & # of losing seasons.
3. Post season success. Times the team: won the title, made the finals, made the SFs.
Ready?
Just catching up,with this game on the DVR. TT sure didn’t pass any eye test, and after the game Wade (who was pretty bad himself of course) said that TT has disrupted the rythm of the second unit. As noted before by many, TT has regressed badly over the last 18 months and his future as an impactful player is questionable at best. Sad but true at $17 or so million
Good news :)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21895148/cleveland-cavaliers-hold-road-practice-isaiah-thomas-scrimmage-teammates
LeBron can’t win MVP, or Wade 6th man, if Love gets shots in the 4th. Come on, you guts should no better.
In my view, despite all of LeBron’s greatness, his lack of regular season focus limits his ceiling at top 9 rather than top 5. And I do hate the whining and lazy D.
Top 9 = Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, James.
Just missed = Mikan, Dr. J, Shaq, Kobe.
Next group = Pettit, Baylor, West, Havlicek, Moses, Olajuwon, I. Thomas, Karl Malone.
Top 5 = Russell, MJ, Kareem, Wilt +1.
Heard quite a few people say here that Bill Russell was a total slug in the regular season during the last half of his career.
The regular season, as perfectly shown last year by Westbrook, is nothing more than a stat maker.
The true test of a player, and specially a leader, is the way they handle themselves on the playoffs/finals. LeBron having gone to 7(is it 6 or 7?) finals in a row, shows waaaayyyyy more than anything he could do in the regular season. The fact he won three, while playing phenomenally, is just an example of his greatness.
Top 3 most definitely in my opinion.
Depends. If you are a super star, you may want to help develop your team, integrating new players, practicing new plays, developing young players etc, you have to take regular season seriously in the games you play. May be you should take games off for rest but when you do play, you need to set example as the leader of the team in games and in practice.
My 2 cents.
Not at age 33 when you have to carry the team the whole season or else it will be in the lottery. Lebron takes off any time and this team, like the cavs of the last 3 years, will lose basically every game. He is more important to the cavs than any other player in the league is to their team. The last three years have proven that. So he can’t take off, but at age 33 no way he can go 100% for most games. Nobody else that old has had to do that in many many many years.… Read more »
I think we should point to 15 years in league and so many playoff games gives more of an idea of mileage that Lebron has put in than 33 years. MJ and few other legends did perform at both ends till age 36 but they only played in NBA after 21 or so. I get it that he can’t be expected to all in every game at this age, but then may be he shouldn’t play every game but when he plays I think he should perform both ends of the floor is all I am saying.
@warriorsfan – true. But I don’t think LeBron is as bad during the regular season as Jason made it seem.
To say that LeBron’s regular season body of work has been bad to the point of taking him away from the all-time “Top 5” spots in the NBA is ludicrous. Dude has been breaking records every season. Thing is, he did the “All out” during the first years with the Cavs and then fizzled. Now it’s about the long haul.
Doesn’t matter what Lebron does this year or rest of his career, for me he is top 3 player of all time.
This is total nonsense invented by folks whose favorite players slacked during the regular season & then excelled at PO time. Shaq & Kobe & LeBron head the list. The REAL top tier players did both. As is the nonsense about Russell that Nate posted. In Russel’s final year he was first team all defense & they won the title. It was the only year the Cs did not have a top 3 record in Russell’s career (9 firsts). Whatever sluging he did, despite chronic knee issues, they won during the regular season & he lead the league in DWS… Read more »
Worrying about regular season focus for someone who gets to the finals almost every year? You need to get out more.
A player who in two consecutive Finals first lead both teams in pts, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals, then followed that up with averaging a triple double. No player had done either before. Like ever before. . Only haters or too harsh critics don’t have James in at least the top 5 of all time, if not higher.
Why did Cedi not get more minutes?
One would think he would had done a better job on Carter than KK.
Because cLUEless in Sacramento.
Agree on this one.
At this point, it is clear that the Cavs are worse when TT plays. If there is strong reason to think that TT will eventually be an upgrade, he should be getting a lot of minutes to reach that level. But, at this point, there is not much reason to think he can do it. Cedi, on the other hand, is rapidly getting better, and should be getting PT because he can be valuable by the playoffs.
and yes ( I blame coaching ) when klove is hot —the offense should find / flow thru him —-only 12 shots when you are hot ???????
When Thomas comes back (assuming he’s healthy), he’ll be able to carry them to wins in games like this, when most everyone else doesn’t GAS. Who knows how long it’ll take him to get in basketball shape, though.
Throwback game for Wade — throwback to last year’s Bull’s Wade, that is.
not losing any sleep over the loss– but the T.T. issue still looms—–mentioned awhile back I would do a straight up T.T. FOR GREG MONROE /AT LEAST MONROE POSES AS AN OFFENSIVE THREAT —–and cedi should have played more than 2 minutes last night ——-flush this game down the toilet—-go drink some wine —bond—come back and hopefully get a ‘w” vs the jazz (no easy task )
Looking forward to everyone freaking out when the Cavs really struggle in January and February. Despite it not mattering at all I mean