Playoff Live Thread: Cavs vs Pacers
2018-04-15
We’ve been waiting for 10 months. The NBA’s second season officially starts today for the Cavs, and we’ll shortly know whether Cleveland’s regular season issues were just due to malaise or if this roster is fatally flawed. For Indiana, it’s their chance to put the ghost of Paul George behind them, and for Victor Oladipo to make playoff hay.
The Cavs official starting lineup is George Hill, Rodney Hood, LeBron James, Jeff Green, and Kevin Love. For Indy, we’re gonna see Darren Collison, Victor Oladipo, Bojan Bogdanovic, Thaddeus Young, and Myles Turner. The Cavs are finally healthy (knock on wood) with a full lineup for the first time in forever, and Indy is by all accounts healthy as well.
When they last met, Cleveland won 115-108, despite Vic’s 25-6-7 line. Part of that was due to the Cavs’ trapping Oladipo and forcing him into four turnovers.Of course that was against a different Cavs team that even got 14 unexpected points from Derrick Rose. Now, the Cavs are longer and faster, and should be able to disrupt passing lanes and recover from traps and doubles more quickly. Expect the Cavs to make Thad Young beat them, as he he’s only shooting 32% from three.
Expect the Pacers to try to force the ball inside to Myles Turner, who they have to feel has an advantage over Kevin Love and Jeff Green. The Pacers other big “advantage” is that they’re one of the best mid-range shooting teams in the league. Turner is a great example of this, as there are no spots inside the arc where he shoots less than 41% (basketball reference). Guarding these Pacers everywhere is a good plan that is tough to execute. To that effect, consistent communication on switches would also be really nice.
The other key is controlling the defensive boards. The Pacers are 17th in the NBA on the o-boards, as is Cleveland. But as we’ve seen, the Cavs can lose track of athletic bigs and wings from the weak side and it has cost them games. Hopefully they’ve been doing box-out drills to control the boards. For my Money, Kevin Love is most important this game on those D-Boards.
For Cleveland, a consistent George Hill, a structured offense for Nance, Clarkson, and Hood, as well as an absence of Tristan Thompson are keys. Oh, and that LeBrob James guy. Prediction: 120-108 Cavs.
The Cavs did way better with Nance Jr in the line up alone with Kevin and Bron up front.
But still the Cavs gave too much space to the Pacers shooters all game long. I don’t know if it was part of the game plan but it’s something that they have done all season long and I don’t expect to change. Just my honest opinion.
LeBron was getting guys open corner 3s. Unfortunately they ,were jeff green and jordan clarkson
Pacers defense was solid, but i think this game ends up being the aberration. Series prolly goes 6 now
Victor Olidipo was asked if he was aware of DG’s remarks about the Pacers not getting enough back in the PG trade. “I’m aware of it,” he says stone-faced. Lol. Surprised he acknowledged it. Kind of funny and obviously a motivator for him.
DRose with a nice finish there!!!
I’m calling it in. It was an infuriating game and my only hope is that it can only get better. Night!!!
Some “positives”(maybe???)
*LeBron, Green, Clarkson, Calderon, and Korver went a combined 0-15 from three.
-What are the chances of that happening again?
“Love, Hill and Hood shot 5-13 from 3pt range.
– What are the chances that stays the same?
*Oladipo went 6-9 from 3pt range.
-Can he continue to do that?
Sidenote:
Can we expect the coaching staff/LeBron to have a talk with Lue regarding Cedi and Zz?
Not much on the first. The second is 38% which is not terrible or out of range for that trio. The third, probably not. It Collison missed a bunch of threes when the Cavs went under. That might not continue.
Cavs d actually wasn’t awful for like half of the game. They certainly had their breakdowns, but that won’t change. Another thing the tnt crew pointed out was how the Cavs personnel didn’t cover the same plays the same way from possession to possession even while exceuting traps or switches. That comes down to preparation.
Collison shot 75% from deep against us over the 4 regular season games.
McMillan said something interesting when asked about the cavs struggles from 3 and the difference between good defense and just cold shooting variance. He attributed some of the cavs struggles to cutting off drives from completely getting to the bucket, keeping the ball in front of the defense, and forcing the ball to, “go over the top,” which allows defenders more time to recover and close out to shooters. Read Indy’s scheme of walling off the paint and forcing skip passes to certain shooters. That works if guys like green or Clarkson or hood, miss corner threes. They did. Also,… Read more »
Lue only playing Korver 4 minutes for “strategic” reasons, when the team is scoring just 80 pts, is beyond ludicrous. If Lue stars Green again in Game Two after seeing how this affected the Cavs entire offense, this may be a 2-0 hole.
What he said was weird. He said there was ‘no strategy,’ with regards to that but said initially it had to do with switching on the perimeter. Then he said he had sat so long he didn’t want to bring him in cold. So sitting for too long is a tactical error or Korver is bothered by the foot and Lue doesn’t want to say. I could believe either at this point.
For a second it dawned on me “Wait, was the reason TT didn’t play because he was on paternity leave?” and then was so relieved to see he got 2 garbage time minutes and Lue actually didn’t play him for any minutes that mattered.
That made me laugh.
WOW…. can’t believe Lue decided Korver should play 4 minutes in a game where the Cavs shoot 23.5% from 3.
I’ll need more info on that…I know Korver was on a minutes restriction, but his foot may have been bothering him. If it was just because Lue wanted to play Green over Korver so Green could ‘stretch the floor’ or whatever, then of course Lue is a moron…
Lue said it wasn’t because of the foot, but who knows? Asked if that was a strategy then, he said, “no strategy,” had to due with switchable defense.
Yup…. Lue said Korver was NOT injured/on a minutes restriction post-game.
I’m still fine not having Crowder…
Playoff P was pretty good tonight…
‘FREE ANTE “—
I’ll echo that.
https://twitter.com/cleveland_cam/status/985642862913220608?s=20
TNT game crew takes are:
Shaq says they rely too much on LBJ
Chuck says they ISO so much which causes stagnant easy to defend sets
Kenny says that is how they always played because they have great one on one players
Both Kenny and chuck are confused as to why the cavs switch bigs onto guys like Olidipo on the perimeter.
Kenny says they need to play TT, so I guess take whatever they say with a grain of salt.
Kenny should quit drinking that 151 talking about TT should be playing…
Yup…. obviously an opinion from a guy who hasn’t watched the Cavs much this year.
Exactly. Not sure how a half smart NBA analyst could even ask for any TT time.
I mean they are right about the switching, and without Kyrie, the offense the cavs run. I know I may be in the minority with the latter.
I’m with you on those points, just the TT part is ludicrous.
Yup… 2nd what JRL said.
I say go small with love at 5 Korver starts instead of green , lebron with 4 shooters around him is unguardable
So
Hill
JR (should be KK)
Hood
LeBron
Love
?
So start Nance at center and bring Green off the bench? Is there any chance Zz gets any playing time?
When hell freezes over maybe.
That’s what I figured.
If Dan brings Lue next season, NO MATTER the outcome, I’m going to forgo being a Cavs’ fan completely. I can’t take his stupidity.
I think Green off the bench could improve his offensive contribution. No chance Zizic will get time, even though he should against big lineups. Start: Hill, Hood, LBJ, KLOVE, LNJ…. bench unit Calderon, Korver, Clarkson, Cedi, and Green/Zizic.
IMO I think the blame falls on Lue and LBJ. Lue’s lineups are terrible…. he refuses to surround LeBron with the best shooters consistently. LeBron should light Lue up instead of sulking in the game… at least that way he’s making his thoughts known.
I’m just surprised LeBron hasn’t gone off on Lue regarding TT/Zz. I get the Cedi part is a bit more difficult because of JR/KK/Hood but when TT came back, there was absolutely no reason to have him out there before Nance of Zz.
This is the Jeff Green I expected the Cavs would get when they signed him. The fact that he’s actually starting is preposterous.
The fact that Lue apparently encourages him to fire away on threes is even more preposterous. TT has his issues, but he’s not out there gunning threes when he’s left wide open, and I’d bet he could nail them at a 28% clip if he did.
I mean the thing is, because the corner three is the outlet for many of James isos, drives off screens and post skip passes, he kind of has to take them if he is spotting up in the corner. I also think the pacers shaded away from him and gave up those threes on purpose this game. You have to give up something. An open Green three is the best thing to give up against the cavs Maybe he could drive immediately after the catch, but either way he has to make the other team pay after receiving an open… Read more »
I don’t love Green corner threes, but if he’s open, I’m okay with them. There are far too many Green non corner threes, though…he’s usually left wide open on those because he blows at shooting them.
Oh yeah. Those non-corner threes need to be excised. Problem was he couldn’t hit any corner threes tonight and he was arguably the most open of anyone on the team tonight for most of those shots. Again I think that is Indy’s game plan, a la the cavs versus warriors strategy of letting Barnes or Draymond shoot until they proveed they could hit them. Tightens up the spacing in the lane for James. If I was Indy I would do the same thing to start game two. See what Jeff green you are getting and either continue or start shading… Read more »
honestly, Cavs could get swept
Ok I am concerned, but I don’t think we are there yet. They will probably be better in game two. They missed some shots today some of which they would normally make. Hopefully they don’t just stand around as much though if they start out cold from the perimeter. If they lose game two, then it is time to panic, though I could see them taking one in Indy if they lose but it is competitive next game.
Love Melo’s offensive game.
jabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstepjabstep /brick
Truly The Beautiful Game.
Lue is beyond stupid if he starts Jeff Green in game 2.
Yeah he was awful. Rebounding is such an issue when he is in instead of nance or love. If he isn’t playing great individual d and hitting wide open corner threes or cutting he is a net negative. Today was maybe his worst or one of his worst games this season. If Korver is right, someone threw out a Calderon or Hill, Korver, LBJ, love, and Nance starting lineup. That would be ideal if Korver and hill aren’t injured next game.
I doubt cavs make drastic changes…if they bring more energy and hit their shots…they will be fine
Giving Lue Jeff Green was a huge mistake, solely because Lue thinks he’s way better than he is. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lue really believes Green is the Cavs second best overall player.
Talked to my sis in laws husband who is pacers fan and he felt cavs played their worst game and thought Indy would blow it when it got close…he thinks cavs win big game 2 by a lot….just some perspective from lifelong pacers fan
I wouldn’t be surprised…apparently Hill had a back issue, tried to play through it in the 3rd…that ain’t great…I thought the Cavs would win this series in 5 or 6, and I still do, but game two is pretty critical…
Maybe from that hard screen in the first half? Or was it something coming into the game? I had thought hill had been holding his knee after that screen but maybe not.
Not sure, I didn’t see the play, but I think it was from something in this game…
Probably that. He went to the bench immediately after. Should have been an offensive foul.
That was definitely an illegal screen and the right call…the screener cannot throw a double forearm shiver into the back of the player he is screening…if he hadn’t extended his arms into Hill it would’ve been a clean play…
Wait, I’d didn’t realize they called it offensive. Had it on mute and was making dinner. Good they called it at least. Hopefully it doesn’t affect hill going forward.
Hope so. Cavs hitting some shots should help, but the pacers d worked really well to disrupt the Lebron offensive system.
And he played 27(!!!!!!!) minutes.
I am a R HOOD fan ( probably too much )—see he was 4/8—-is he NOT looking for his shot / can’t get his shot / or offense doesn’t create shots for him—–believe he should be getting at least 12 shots (or more )/ game—-and Love only 8 shots is criminal —–only 1 game— but I am sure this is a HUGE confidence booster for the pacers —–will see what the cavs players / coaching staff ” IS MADE” of come wed —-FIGHT OR FLIGHT ??
Hood was cold as ice until late in the fourth. Also had some bad turnovers, but nearly everyone did.
Offense doesn’t create anything for anyone save some floppy initial actions for Korver and JR. Usually the aren’t even the full progression of typical floppy set. Everything else is usually James Drive and kick or skip passes from the post. They barely ran any horns sets today. A few Nance pick and rs. No dribble handoffs from the elbow. Love got maybe two post touches, but he seemed a little stiff after knocking knees in the first half.
The Pacers are going to get turnovers…I think it was Thorpe on Lowe’s podcast who compared this Pacers team to some of the Grizz grindhouse teams, and noted how many turnovers they forced, and even mentioned that a guy like Hood was going to get the ball taken a few times. I didn’t get to see much of the first half, so I don’t know what kind of shots the Cavs were getting, but if they weren’t moving the ball much and were taking a lot of contested shots, that’s not going to cut it. Maybe they were good shots… Read more »
Some of them were ok shots. I wouldn’t say there was a ton of time to shoot for a lot of them. They definitely had better looks, when they weren’t just chucking threes, in the second half in my opinion.
Just awful offense 1st half. Bricking open shots, taking bad shots, bad passes, no rhythm at all. Came out tight.
mentioned in a blog after we “beat the knicks “—we did not look PLAYOFF READY —– guess we weren’t today —-pacers now have “home ct ” advantage —–
didn’t watch the game—–guess I am lucky I didn’t—-sounds like typical ty ” clueless’ coaching——hate to say it but LeBron ‘s “DECISION ” might have already been made ——definitely if we lose 1st round –LeBron IS GONE —– so did we play that bad/ pacers play that good / or combination of both ?—
Both. I wouldn’t say the Pacers played a perfect game by any means. However, their defense really was design to take away the shots we get off James isos and also to wall off the paint against James drives. They pressured aggressively on the perimeter and used basically a box and one in James post isos with defenders positioned to recover to skip passes quickly and what looked like matchup zone in a fair amount James perimeter isos. Worked really well. Unfortunately since we really don’t run much motion off ball and don’t really have anyone else besides James to… Read more »
23% from 3, a lot of them wide open, and spurts of lackluster defense. We Couldn’t string many stops together and score at the same time. It was a weird game. The Pacers also made a ton of contested jump shots, hence us having more assists than them. Love got knocked out of the first quarter
Love missed some open corners 3s. Green was wide wide open for basically all his 3s (but it is green so if he isn’t on, he isn’t going to make many of those). I think Indy gave those up on purpose. Clarkson and Hood were wide open a few times and missed. Would have been nice to see Calderon get some more run, though I would be afraid of him on Collison. Might be too quick for Jose. Obviously if Korver was bothered by injury he should have played way more than 4 minutes.
I think the Cavs will be fine. Might take 6 though.
Should be interesting to see how they respond, if they make any tweaks to the offensive game plan. Game 2 is a must win. I think we’ll know how this series and James’ offseason decision will go based on how that goes. Don’t think this team is good enough defensively or has enough play making to come back from 0-2 on the road. Crazy. Got whooped today, down 0-1 at home and could be down 0-2 going to Indy, which means the season and this era of cavs bball is over. Really wish that Nets pick had better odds now.… Read more »
Don’t lose hope man! Just one game so far.
I am not yet. Again, everything depends on game 2. They lose that game and I believe full on panic mode is warranted. Still it is a little terrifying to think that the future of the cavs may depend on the second game of the playoffs.
I guess panic mode would be warranted with a Game 2 loss. Just don’t think LeBron will let it happen. In James we trust.
Per my comment below I think narrative for LeBron is not.good if he leaves after first round collapse
That could be true, unless he feels like public opinion is that he doesn’t have enough help, or can’t win with Lue coaching this team. Also might not matter if he is trying to get to four or five ships.
not a big surprise unfortunately. if you watched Pacers all year, they are really solid and puts out 100% effort 48 min each game. Whereas, Cavs sleepwalk and puts out good effort in spurts (like today). Bron can’t get it done by himself and Lue actually serves as an internal obstacle to success as he messes up line ups and rotations. It’s like he lives in a video game world. Pretty amazed that front office has allowed this incompetent coach to hang around this long, despite a championship 2 years ago. (which wasn’t b/c of outstanding coaching)
Honestly if we bow out of playoffs super early I think it’s LeBron to come back and prove he can still win here. He doesn’t want narrative to be he just goes where the friendly breeze takes him
I think it’s much easier for home to leave if we lose in finals..then narrative is you need a super team to win these days and Cavs fumbled Kyrie
Withers reported love’s knee might be bothering him. He did look a bit stiff running the floor today. We’re in trouble if we have nagging injuries on top of everything else.
I don’t think it’s nagging. He got hit at beginning of the game bit stayed in
WTH…we won the assist battle 21-19
Korver was on a minutes restriction apparently. Looks like the foot was bothering him. That is going to make things difficult going forward.
Lue said in the post game that Korver would get more minutes next game – he said he wanted to play faster and have a lineup that could switch PnRs easier and then the game got out of hand
Sigh. That is not giving me confidence in Lue. The injury could have given him an excuse. Playing Korver 4 minutes for those reasons is just dumb.
I don’t know. They look horrible. Lue is not good at his job. Lebron is insanely frustrating and annoying, as always. But they could flip that at any time. No idea.
Observation (without the effort to look up actual data): every time I see the Cavs play in the afternoon they seem off.
Plus, after several straight Finals appearances, it’s easy to forget you have to play good basketball in the first round or two.
Agreed on afternoon. It’s not an excuse but true
This loss is on LeBron as much as anyone. He was super passive in first, missed way too many free throws, had a bad attitude way too early.
Had he hit his free throws game complexion would have been totally different.
Well, the Cavs held an opponent under triple digits…
Glass half full of formaldehyde.
Didn’t see the cavs get one mismatch on the pacers time to fire CLueless!
They completely took out Kevin Love and again I’m not that surprised about that. Again KLove can’t create his own shot. It’s really tough to win in today’s NBA with not enough playmakers in your roster.
Cavs in 5?
Hood and Hill cant be starting. They kill us. Their worse than green. Go with Calderon, Korver, James, Nance, love to start with JR, Clarkson, Green off bench. Use Hill, Hood, Cedi depending on lineup and who’s giving you something
Probably much better starting lineup offensively.
Well, actually pretty hilarious considering how Gilbert trashed Indy after that trade.
Glad the Cavs fought so hard for that 4th seed and homecourt advantage in the first round…
Kevin Love got five shots after the first two minutes.
That’s on Lue. Absolutely crazy that your all star, nba champion, second offensive option barely sees the ball.
Alright, raise your hand if you think Indy has a legit chance? Anyone laughing?
There are those that talk hoops, and those that know hoops.
r/iamverysmart
Which one are you?
We will still win. 100%
Your first comment is fair. Your second comment is juvenile
Didn’t expect some of the nonsensical decisions Lue made. Should have. Also expected they might actually run some stuff besides the LeBron offense. Always thought this series would be competitive but the Cavs have a lot more to deal with than I thought.
You are really getting ridiculous.
If you are so smart, please start your own blog. The second comment is insulting
Lebron may have just had his decision made for him.
This loss on him as much as Lue
He definitely gave up for large stretches and only starter playing when his teammates dragged them closer.
Pacers came in wanting to win cavs came in thinking they would win
Love has 9 points. 9. And only 8 shots.
Thought Clarkson had a decent game. Tbh.
He brought some energy… not a complete blackhole. He was definitely in when they had their best defensive stretch.
It’s a make or miss league. 24% from 3 and 60% from the FT line not going to get it done
The vast majority of those threes were contested until the third and early fourth. Free throws are an issue, but make or miss is reductive. Indy shut down the Cavs offense by taking away a lot of the looks off James isos and walled off the paint for a lot of the first half. The Cavs are easy to game plan for, especially when you don’t play your best shooters.
Multiple missed free throws when we had the game in single digits. I counted open misses by Clarkson, Green, Hood and Love when were still in the game early 4th.LeBron’s drive and kicks + ball movement were there. Honestly, nothing we come up with scheme wise is going to surprise Indy (and vice versa as well). Teams know exactly what the other teams are running. It comes down to execution.
Yes but, some sets still work when wrinkles are added in. The warriors have gotten a ton of easy buckets in the playoffs over the years from their basic sets with wrinkles. The fact is that game planning for sets with some motion is harder than what the cavs run since it is so utterly predictable to begin with. They didn’t even try horns rub today which has worked for them in the past. If teams position themselves correctly in a matchup zone, are athletic and work hard, and completely sell out on certain guys, a la Jeff Green on… Read more »
lol i wish it were that simple
Did Cavs forget to flip the switch?
Maybe this is the gut punch we needed to get our heads on straigbt for the playoffs?
Good foul, Cedi.
8 shots for Love. 3 of 6 from deep. So much for being #2. I think Lue sucks as a coach.
Pls fire lue he makes me cry!!
Lot of adjustments to make but most importantly team needs to be focused from start
*sigh* Cavs didn’t adjust to playoff intensity until the third. They made too many mistakes to make up the difference.
Expected when you have a lot of guys who have not been there before.
Another reason why this was gonna be a dogfight.
also have quite a few guys that have been there before
Lue is incompetent at managing lineups. He leaves multiple guys in for 12-20 minutes straight, until they are gassed. No excuse for this ineptness.
He is worse than Blatt at rotations which is saying something. I don’t think he is smart enough to analyze what is going on in the moment. Hence the, “I gotta watch the tape.” In game management is not his strong suit, nor apparently game preparation.
Lue CALL A TIME OUT and get LeBron and Love out of the game.
I know all of us have been ragging on Green (and others) tonight, but to be fair we really don’t know what the issues are.
Lue hasn’t watched the game tape yet…so…
Is that sarcasm? In the vein of Lue’s interviews where he appears to know nothing and says, “gotta watch the tape.” Dude you watched the whole game. What are you doing on the sidelines? You have to be able to make in game adjustments as a coach. Watching tape to figure out how dumb you were doesn’t qualify as in game.
Yes. Def sarcasm
Ok sorry. I had to vent anyway.
Green is a major symptom of Lue’s ineptitude.
Hood without his feet set misses off-balance 3.
Seriously, LeBron?
What sucks about this mostly is that LeBron is acting like he doesn’t care that much or that he expected it.
Completely true. Not bowing well for him giving a sh!t the rest of the series. Phillie, LA???
If they don’t make it to the finals let alone out of the first round he is gonezo.
The walk out during the game with the towel looked eerily familiar. At least the jersey was on.
Still, everyone will have to step up if we are going to win this one. Less home run passes. More movement. More offensive versatility (use Love more, FFS). Better defense. Better rotations. Better lineup management. Better coaching.
Tough game to watch
Cavs didn’t respect this team, weren’t prepared, panicked, and got beat.
That’s the recap.
Great play by turner