Preseason Recap: Boston 118, Cleveland 95 (or, I Miss Larry Drew Already)
2019-10-16I don’t know what to make of John Beilein. He’s either in way over his head, or the team just isn’t figuring it out yet. But this squad is pretty painful to watch, at least against the Boston Celtics. After getting nuked from orbit for a 46 point loss on Sunday, Cleveland only lost this one by 23. At the very least, the pre-season is mercifully over. Jarell Martin can go melt back into the night.
Things started out well enough, with eight straight points for Kevin Love on three jumpers and a goaltend by Robert Williams III. Kev dropped eight and five in ten minutes, and after delivering an elbow on a rebound that knocked Robert out of the game three minutes in, Love was rightfully done for the night. Things unraveled quickly after he left with the Cavs unable to get into an offense that made any kind of sense, and a defense that got out-muscled by the Celts all night.
I noted after that this kind of game was good for Cleveland because they have to get used to the NBA’s physicality. The Cavs have one physical perimeter defender on their team in Delly now that they’ve cut Sindarius Thornwell; their young guards and wings can’t even even get used to NBA defense and pressure if they have no one to challenge them on their own team. That was completely obvious as 29-year-old NBA sophomore, Brad Wanamaker, considered this preseason start as a personal mission to deliver a shot on Collin Sexton every time Wanamaker drove, and more than once when defending Sexton. Sexton, to his credit played fairly tough, and definitely had a bit of a bounce-back game, at least in the box score after a disastrous Sunday: 20 points on 14 shots and a couple nice dimes to Dean Wade.
Also playing physical for the Celts, Javonte Green who was like a slapshot towards the rim every time he drove. I haven’t seen a guy who consistently drove that hard and that quickly in a long time. He also let the game with nine rebounds. It’s good that he has that in his game, because he isn’t a great shooter. Who is a good shooter? Perdue’s Carsen Edwards who only put up eight threes in a third quarter Supernova.
The Celtics got this guy with the 33rd pick. He is like Darius Garland with muscle. OK, not really, he’s not nearly the ballhandler that Garland is, but he does have a lot more functional NBA strength, and Boston actually runs plays to get him the ball in catch-and-shoot situations, running him around screens to get him shots at the wing and elbow, or simple hand-offs at the top of the key. Of course, the Cavs’ defense was putrid, and you’d think they’d stop leaving him after, you know, the third, fourth, fifth, or sixth time Edwards drilled a triple, but no. The Cavs guards overreacted to simple ball swings and left a guy who had flames shooting from his fingertips. Maybe what got Thornwell cut was the highlight above where he comically ignores Edwards at the top of the key to cheat in on a big, and Carsen drains yet another 3-ball.
The Cavs offense, on the other hand, makes no sense. Their most inexplicable plays involve a guard dribbling at the top of the key with two wings making cuts back and forth to the elbow while two guys stand in the corner. What the hell is this? Is someone running this wrong? What is this play designed to do? Why is Larry Nance standing in the corner looking sad?
Poor Larry. His offense in the Cavs’ high post and dribble hand-off sets last season were a revelation at times. He is looking increasingly beat down as this preseason goes on. His offense tonight was an 0-3 from downtown with three assists. The Cavs seem to be getting him the ball primarily in pick-and-pop sets. Boston seemed to rightfully sag off him and Jarell Martin (2-6 deep, and more than one airball – much to AC’s chagrin). Why do the Cavs seem to run a wing oriented offense when they have no wings? (And yes, I’m looking at you, 10-point, four turnover, -15 Cedi Osman, who I’m desperately trying not to give up on).
I don’t know. The Cavs O did seem to pick up in the fourth quarter. Maybe it was a result of the Celts’ sagging off, maybe it was the guards hijacking the O, or maybe it was the team finally getting into a rhythm, but I saw a lot fewer bewildered looks, more dribbling, and at least an idea by Cleveland of where their shots were going to come from. Sexton did a decent job of getting out and running, and in the half court did a good job of getting guys guys trapped behind him or on his hip. He’s going to get to the line a lot with that kind of functional strength and speed. It seemed like Beilein gave up on his offense and just started letting guys play pickup, and it looked a lot better. Jordan Clarkson excels at this and put up 15 on eight shots and a 0 plus/minus. He still did a lot of staring at Carsen Edwards though.
I don’t know why the Cavs switch out of an offense that made a lot of sense for their personnel into Beilein’s system but maybe it will look better with real NBA players at the big man spots next week. God, I hope so.
As for the other guys, Marques Bolden drew the unlucky straw of having to match up with Tacko Fall, who if he got good at basketball, would have to be outlawed. The dude gets the ball in close, there’s literally nothing you can do. He makes everyone on the floor look tiny. Bolden had just three boards in 21 minutes, but much of that was due to matching up with a giant. Bolden was -12, but Tacko was -4 with four turnovers and five points in his 17. Thank god, he isn’t good at basketball. Tacko also knocked Delly out of the game when he swatted Delly from 20 feet away and the followthrough sprained Matt’s already injured thumb. Maybe it’ll help his J. Kev did help Delly dish five dimes in eight minutes though.
Dean Wade had some nice cuts to the basket, and is a decent finisher for his size. He went 3-3. See you in Canton, Dean. Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot was 0-3 and will hopefully never be in a Cavs uni again.
Kevin Porter Junior got back to his natural self in the fourth: low efficiency iso scorer. KPJ went 3-9 and 1-5 from downtown to go 3 turnovers, but did manage to post a positive +/- in garbage time. Porter gravitates towards inefficient basketball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJTGoEUetGo
It was a bummer that we didn’t get to see Dylan Windler this preseason and it’s also a bummer that throughout the NBA there seem to be eyebrow raising rookies like Tyler Herro, Carsen Edwards, and Boston’s Tremont Waters (just 24/2/7 in 28 I’m-gonna-smoke-Jordan-Clarkson minutes), while the Cavs have a guy who shoots and dribbles well, but looks 12 years old and can’t stay healthy. Garland was ok with 16 and 4 with zero turnovers, and one sick J, but is naturally lost on D but also put up a couple bad floaters that airballed or got sent into the stratosphere by the long arm of the Celts. I’m worried about his finishing ability long term. Beilein also would play him for 2-3 minutes in the first half and then jerk him, and it was hard to get a rhythm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mhbY-ApKY
Boston does a nice job of adding guys up and down the roster with draft picks, but also by finding guys like Green, Theis, Vincent Poirier (+28), and Wanamaker in Europe, while the Cavs are trotting out scrubs like Jarrell Martin, Luwawu-Cabarrot, and Daniel Hamilton. Koby Altman is either a tanking master or doesn’t know how to get talent into the pipeline. And now I look at the news and see that he’s comically keeping Jarell Martin over Sindarius Thornwell. Why do you hate me Koby?
The Cavs seem to value shooting and then not much else as an org. The Celtics seem to know how get guys who are good at one or two things and then teach them how to do other things: shooting, being tall, exploding to the rim, etc. I’ve probably seen to much Boston and am overly negative.
As for Beilein, we will see how it goes. I imagine he’s just realizing what he signed up for. There are going to be a lot more frustrating nights than Tuesday. At least Larry Drew knew that. I don’t know what to expect long term from this team, but at least pre-season is over. Let’s hope Cleveland can stop traveling on the court (there were a lot again Tuesday) with all their October travels off it. The NBA pre-season games are holiday guests. You’re happy to see them come, but you’re happier to see them go.
Edward’s is a classic dumb GM move.
The league values potential over players. Dude was setting NCAA records during the tourney, but does not get picked in the first round. Older. Less “room to grow.” Less “upside.”
Meanwhile, guys averaging 6 pts a game get drafted in round 1.
Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.
Upside’s just another word for you suck right now.
At least the Cavs have upside.
Cannot fly with no wings.
Poor draft. Bad GM. Iffy coach
I want to believe, but methinks we are lucky to win 15 games.
coby white goes for 29 pts in 23 min (+33).. apparently, numerous fine guards taken AFTER garland, no need to list them.. i hope (no trust yet) that the cavs crew knew what they were doing with luke skywalker.. when he lights up (30+) a few decent opposing nba guards over a multi-game stretch, i will stop chugging the pepto to treat the nausea i am feeling.. and concede that perhaps, the cavs brain trust is not utterly afflicted with tau
Just basketball at end of the day
YEP BUCKAROO—-REMEMBER THOSE TRIBE TEAMS VIVIDLY / FONDLY—– A SIMPLER / KINDER ERA —–AND YES TOTALLY RESPECT YOUR OPINION AND YOU MAY BE 100 % CORRECT ……………GUESS I AM JUST A … “WAIT AND SEE ” TYPE OF GUY ………HELL IF THE MRS NOMAD WENT ON 1ST IMPRESSIONS —-SHE WOULDN’T BE MRS NOMAD …….” MORE BEER PLEASE ” / WE– ( BUCKAROO AND NOMAD )– WILL ALWAYS AGREE TO THAT !!! : )
AGREEING WITH JOHNB —( KJG’S / GOOD ARTICLE ON BEILEINS FRUSTRATIONS ALSO /OFFENSE / LEARNING CURVE IN THE NBA )—JUST THINK IT IS WAY TOOOOOOOOO EARLY TO START FORMING OPINIONS / JUDGEMENT ON PLAYERS / COACHES / ETC ——–THINK WITH NEW COACH / MANY NEW PLAYERS / ETC —THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE ‘BUMPS ” THAN HOORAH ‘S ——-SEE WHAT LITTLE PROGRESS ( IF ANY ) IS MADE IN THE 1 WEEK DURATION BEFORE THE 1ST GAME / THEN REVIEW AGAIN IN JANUARY / AGAIN IN APRIL ——–DON’T THINK ANYONE HERE AT CTB WAS FOOLING THEMSELVES THAT WE HAD… Read more »
NOMAD.. i (we) grew up on the mid-60s tribe.. it made me who i am today.. and likely you as well.. no rose-colored glasses on this 63 yr old misanthropic curmudgeon.. my nose is particularly good at smelling steaming piles.. and yes.. more beer please, and no bogarting allowed..
let’s do a “who got more better” in the ’19 draft.. celtics (langford #14, williams #22, little carson #33, some nobody #51, and 7’6″ tacko fall undrafted) or our beloved cavs? i don’t really care for the celtics or their coach and GM, but they got significantly stronger drafting in the back half of the draft, then we did with #5 and the late 1st rounders.. windler may not play at all this year.. mark my words.. 4-6 weeks (the cavs line) is utter nonsense.. i know most adopt a panglossian view of things (this is, after all, the best… Read more »
Counting injuries like Windler’s in draft evaluations is foolish. Someone may have wanted the number five, but likely didn’t offer much. We probably would have gotten a 10 through 20 and a late first for it.
I seriously doubt that Windler’s situation will be that bad. We’ll see if I’m wrong. As for draft evaluations…I understand assessing that right after the draft as well as right after summer league but those are just early guesses. Comprehensively judging draft success by the preseason and before Game One of the season is just a little bit hasty. I get changing your opinion later if you see evidence to do so. My arguement with your postion is that it seems like you are forming your initial very strong opinions with very little reliable evidence in the first place. You… Read more »
So after a few preseason game I see that Nate has already given up on the team. Why do you guys read this garbage from someone who has been consistently wrong about everything?
They definitely won’t be good. Defensively they will hemomorage points I won’t comment on Belien yet. Way too early. Likely won’t see progress as far as running a coherent offense for quite awhile given how young this team is and how few pass first guys we have. My hope is to see Love healthy and things run through him, to see the young guys give maximal effort, to see Sexton progress as far as at least some of his weaknesses, to see the young guys build some chemistry with the vets, and to see some semblance of a coherent offense… Read more »
Cols burner account!
Heeeeee’s baaaaaack
Imagine what he’s doing to Rachel Nichols right now.
https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/1184701054299979779
LoL. That explains it.
read up on “stress reaction” in tibia.. i don’t think windler comes back until early ’20 (jan or feb).. this is serious stuff, especially for a pro athlete who is going to banging the hardwood for 25-30 m each game, and practice on top of that.. i would not be surprised if he misses the entire season..
i have always just called it as i see it.. and i have always acknowledged when i was wrong.. and have always been willing to change my views based on evidence.. i am an adult.. i don’t believe in childhood fairy tales.. if this team starts to win a few games convincingly, i will change my views accordingly.. until then.. i am sticking with what i see.. which is unbelievably pathetic..
That’s fair enough and as you said you are willing to change your mind. Last season showed that. But posting the same pessimistic message several times in the same thread does grow tiresome for people. I agree with your evaluation and I imagine others do too, just rein it back a bit or people will grow irritated.
this team is going to be a bigger disappointment then the football team that shall remain nameless.. 15-19 wins, and i am taking the under
and beilein likely doesn’t make it past the winter holidays.. kolby & co are looking at a nightmare..i don’t see a single team that they can compete with on a regular basis.. they likely can win a few games against NY, Wash, and CHA.. they could easily go 0-for against the rest of the east.. in the west, perhaps they can take a game from OKC and PHX.. other than that.. 0-for again.. it’s so bad that is is actually quite humorous..
You really are doom and gloom to start rebuilding seasons. I sort of am too. Don’t get hopes up and then you won’t be disappointed or you will be happily surprised.
Broken record buck… We get it. You’re predicting 15-19 wins.
put your $$ where your mouth is.. how many wins smart guy? put it out there so all can see.. who can this team compete with on a nightly basis? they are far and way the worst team in the league..
If you’re putting the over/under at 19.5 I’ll take the over. I think you are overreacting to some preseason blips and underappreciating how ANY NBA team can get lucky and beat another NBA team on any given night (see: some of GSW’s regular season losses throughout the last five years). However, unless you are really hoping to win the $5 I have to my name at the moment, perhaps you can think up a good non-financial bet? Either way I’ll have fun arguing with you again this year, along with the added respect of kbowing you can admit when you’re… Read more »
they may win 2 of the first 15 games or so.. and then the wheels will really start to come off the truck
Cavs season will be interesting early on, but think team is built properly for long run and of course there will be moves during the season. Really think Porter Jr is a year away from being somewhat legit. He should play about 5-7 minutes to bring energy and athleticism which always helps any team. Garland will be a stud and better than people think. Projected rotation at least for first few months Garland Sexton Cedi Love TT Bench: Knight Porter Jr Nance Clarkson Henson Windler Delly Zicic That rounds out to 13 rotation at max. Think the Rookies get lot… Read more »
Agreed across the board pretty much…save that I think when healthy Windler will get more minutes than Porter and I expect the Cavs to try to move Knight quickly the second he establishes some healthy value in the league (assuming he plays well enough and stays healthy).
I think Garland is going to be good, if he can stay on the court, which may be a significant ‘if’.
But this team composition right now just doesn’t make sense. We knew this months ago. In a wing crazy league, the Cavs have one or two, and they are really bench type players.
I’ll give Beilein time with the offense, but this team isn’t going to defend anyone. They need to make some trades IMO to build a more balanced (but still lousy) roster.
‘These kids are ticking time bombs’: The threat of youth basketball.. ESPN Jul 11, 2019.. anyone read this piece.. “An X-ray would later find that Randle had suffered a “stress reaction,” a precursor to a stress fracture but without the break. Repetitive impacts to that bone had led its structure to break down, and a team spokesman later said that the stress reaction is “likely what contributed to the break.. Back in the players’ lounge, DiFrancesco studies the replay again and again, stopping, rewinding and playing again.. These kids, he thinks to himself, are ticking time bombs.” Cleveland Cavaliers rookie… Read more »
Read it when it came out. Pretty compelling. Of course people could point to how many young guys come out and are healthy. But the stuff about biomechanics, stress, and their relation to non-fused, growing bone is interesting.
I will look into the article so I can learn the details…but the comment made me think of a related issue: (Warning, long comment about the science of bone strength in athletes) This summer Love did a feature with Men’s Health (I think) and talked about his dietary habits and such. One thing I found VERY interesting is that he stressed drinking a lot of high pH (basic, not acidic) water. Athletes consume an abnormally high amount of protein in their diet (for obvious reasons) and when protein is processed in the human body a byproduct is “acidic ash” that… Read more »
Color Me dubious on the science of alkaline water.
Yup. Won’t hurt you, but won’t make any difference to body pH either. Drink up and enjoy the pseudoscience!
My wife has a great meme she puts up that says, “I don’t go out of my way to ruin your belief in CBD oil, so don’t ruin Santa Clause for my kids.”
Love it !
I got an A on the chemistry term paper (which granted was on protein-generated acidic ash and it’s effects on the calcium levels in the bones, not high pH water specifically). I don’t know what is pseudo science about it? My research also tracked with what my mom learned in PreMed. I’m sure that plenty of the water is expelled before being pH balanced, but I can’t imagine an arguement that the pH of things we injest somehow doesn’t affect blood pH. Now I’m not suggesting that everyone needs to start checking the pH of their water and switch to… Read more »
To be clear Jude, I was referring to the alkaline water fad as pseudoscience, not your very interesting stuff on the protein – ash relationship.
Information on effect of high protein on bone is varied – to balance what you’ve hit upon, there is evidence that also shows high protein improve bone density. As I generally write at the end of my research papers … “more research is needed”! :)
Fair enough. I also wasn’t saying high protein alone causes osteoporosis or bone weakness in general. Just saying that the is a mechanism for that to be a possible side effect. A number of variables in any individual such as protein processing, natural blood pH, calcium use and absorbance, and obviously overall diet all effect the end result. I do still think it is interesting to consider though, especially throughout a sports season while athletes that are obviously in great shape have such a varied and even random seeming presentation of injuries. Windler’s “stress reaction” which I understand to be… Read more »
Any quick search will tell you. Alkali water raises the ph of your pee. Not your blood. The biggest health benefit is probably because people are drinking more water, not whether it’s alkali or not.
https://www.henryford.com/blog/2018/08/alkaline-water-help-hype
Obviously I could google it myself, but I was just asking for your specific takes.
So I read the article you linked and it actually does not contradict my argument. Firstly the premise they are “debunking” is a straw man (at least as it relates to my contentions at least). Alkaline water is NOT used to change the pH to one less hospitable for bacteria. The importance of a blood pH of 7.3 (nonspecificly called 7 in the article) has nothing to do with stopping bacteria from growing. 7.3 is merely optimal for body functions and the immune system. From there the article tries to debunk any benefits to alkaline water by saying it won’t… Read more »
Had no idea about milk causing issues for some people. The blood pH level in relation to leeching calcium is interesting. Not something I have heard about before.
Back in my vegetarian/vegan days I got really sick of people’s uneducated “nutritional warnings” as a way to pick on my choice at the time, so I did a lot of research along with my friends who were PreMed/biology majors at the time. The most common “warning” I’d hear from people attacking vegetarians was about not getting enough protein…which is entirely fallacious. Most all vegetables (outside of lettuce and other non substantial leafy greens) have plenty of protein and thst led me to research more about protein and the human body…which led me down said rabbit hole. I haven’t been… Read more »
The Knicks have so. Many. Power. Forwards.
15-19 wins.. book it
You do remeber how wildly off your early predictions were last year?
No offense man, and I respect you for being better at admitting when you are wrong than 90% of humans (compliment, not an insult at all)…but haven’t you learned the fallibility of predicting doom from limited early season struggles?
I have every confidence that Garland will be at least as good as Dajuan Wagner, and that Dylan Windler will measure up to the likes of Luke Jackson. If we can get Trajan Langdon-level production out of Porter, we’ll be sitting pretty.
Come on, man. DeJuan Wagner was a next level whiff. Langdon would be awesome in the current era
interesting theory
but who will be our michael cage?
Just a couple stabs at optomism: Beilein is trying to install a new system and teach it quickly. Both Boston games were missing integral parts of that offense. The missing players were NOT replaced with bench guys, rookie prospects, or even old vets that know the team. They were replaced mostly by guys that hopefully will get garbage minutes or less and will only end up in the starting lineup again if the Cavs continually have 4-5 injured bigs for long stretches this season. The Cavs offense is based on a lot of read and react situations that involve Love,… Read more »
I’m trying to think of a great move that Koby has made in the last two years and I can’t think of one. I miss Griffin. He didn’t always hit, but he knew how to build a team and he knew at least what an NBA player looks like. We’re building a college team. We have a college coach trying to run a college system with college players. The NBA is a different game, and no one seems to have figured this out.
That’s a good analysis and a good question. Its much easier to tear down a team for picks than to build it up. Koby seems to not be doing a great job of either. I like the Sexton pick. I’ve not seen someone after him so far that is light years better and he’s a good culture guy. Garland I don’t hate Ina vacuum but if they could’ve traded out and didn’t or moved Jr and didn’t, they’re hurting. That draft was sooo deep and a good rule of thumb is “don’t fall in love with a guy after one… Read more »
Meh. I don’t think KPJ is a gamble considering they bought the pick basically.
He also rarely had real draft assets. Seemed to have hit with NAW. Hayes has great potential. Don’t count Zion obviously.
Who is NAW
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
an absolute f&cking joke.. sorry for reverting to the uncle buck of yester-year, but this is a pitiful disaster.. wrong coach.. wrong picks.. the cavs (and kolby) screwed up again.. big time.. pathetic beyond measure.. and i don’t even watch in real-time.. only when i am sitting on the shitter the morning after.. which is appropriate.. make sure you folks keep taking your meds.. you will need them this season..
Gosh buck, you are all about hyperbole and sensationalism with this team. Give it more than a few preseason games before professing basketball apocalypse. The team isn’t going to be good going into this season. We all know that. But pathetic beyond measure? Geeze. It’ll be alright.
Chill out, man. You were massively wrong in your predictions last year. Everything can’t be the best or worst ever. They’re not gonna play “beat you up in the regular or preseason” Boston every game.
” MRE BEER PLEASE “—-ANYONE WAIVED FROM OTHER TEAMS WORTH TAKING A LOOK AT ——.. DOES PLAYING LOVE FOR 30. MIN’S / HAVING T.T. / HENSON / ANTE AVAILABLE HELP THIS TEAM BE SOMEWHAT MORE COMPETITIVE / WATCHABLE ……….BEILEIN HAS A WEEK TO TRY TO IRON OUT AT LEAST A FEW OF THE PROBLEMS ON BOTH SIDES …….THINK THORNWELL MAY HAVE APPROACHED CAVS TO REQUEST TO BE WAIVED / SEEK A BETTER OPPORTUNITY —JUST MY GUESS ……….REALLY BELIEVE GARLAND HAS LEGIT NBA SKILLS / HAVE TO REMEMBER HE IS ALMOST LIKE COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL TO THE NBA RANKS… Read more »