Live Thread: Cavs vs Pistons
2020-01-07Rejoice, Cavaliers. You could be the Detroit Pistons. The Cavs definitely have their issues, but at least Kevin Love is healthy (knock on wood). Blake Griffin just had knee surgery and could be out the entire season. You may be annoyed with Kevin Love, a guy who can’t always control his emotions or frustration on the court, but he’s not a jerk who beat up his friend. Further, the Pistons are reportedly shopping mercurial center and pending free agent, Andre Drummond who wants to sign an exorbitant contract this off-season.
Kev did offer a mea culpa today. Here’s my opinion…
There's nothing to forgive. I mean I watched LeBron set a pick on his own teammate and then act like he didn't do it. At least Kev is honest. https://t.co/FcZ4j4Bv0f
— HoopsDogg (@oldseaminer) January 7, 2020
The Cavs are also missing Dante Exum who’s down with the flu, while Tristan Thompson will play. Larry Nance, Kevin Porter Junior, and Dylan Windler remain out. The Pistons are pretty banged up too missing the aforementioned Griffin, Markieff Morris, Reggie Jackson, Khyri Thomas, and Like Kennard. Should be a winnable game for Cleveland. They could use one.
Ouch
Pretty clearly Kitchens. I think Beilein has been fine.
I think the FO is tying his hands. Plus, the Browns were trying to win, the Cavs…….not so much.
yeah, the biggest problem right now with Beilein and Altman is Sexton… they value him way too much when they should just cut bait. They should cater to Love over Sexton and they’re not, which is probably the most disturbing part.
I do wonder how many of Beilein’s strings koby is pulling. I have a feeling he is exercising considerable pull in meddling with or mandating certain things from Belein as far as in game rotations.
Sexton is really the first test in my mind. Another possibility really didn’t emerge until Porter’s shooting and defense came around… but the opportunity to make that switch IMO should’ve been taken when Porter was on that roll. I think another opportunity could present itself with Exum at the 2 guard in the future.
Kitchens 100%
Kitchens easily!
Despite my Drummond fantasies (unlikely & perhaps unwise), with open roster spots and a lot of high dollar expirings left, the Cavs could perhaps play facilitator in a larger deal (Drummond, DeLo, Simmons, McCollum, Horford, Paul, etc) to land some picks or a young player.
On Beilein, he obviously misspoke. We foul less than any team in the league. Thugs make zero sense. Slugs on the other hand…..does.
There is such a thing as too woke.
Yeah the context makes sense. The slugs thing sounded more applicable when I read the article. Only really matters what the players think though.
Not a good look for an old white guy whether he misspoke or not.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28450077/john-beilein-apologizes-cavs-says-meant-call-players-slugs-not-thugs
FWIW, I doubt he intended to use the word ‘thugs’…
I agree tbh, but I need context
It;s like someone claiming Woody Hayes using the n-word ..yeah, I don’t think so……
LMFAOO someone said it sounded like a larry david bit hahahahahaaa
Who said that?
Yezus, Cavs.
100 % AGREE WITH JOHN B —-AS MUCH AS SEXTON MIGHT AGGREVATE YOU —–ARE YOU GOING TO TRADE HIM FOR 3 MONTHS / 30 GAMES / DRUMMOND ——–A BIG NO FOR ME !!!
I think we would have a decent chance to keep Drummond. I think that chance is worth Sexton.
But yes, I would. He is like IT but 5″ taller & cannot pass & does not score as efficiently (pre-injury).
Can’t win with him. IMHO. Hope I am wrong about that.
Getting Drummond would be a fun second half of the season, gobbling up all the rebounds. I’m down for an enjoyable second half.
I think Garland would enjoy playing with him…I’m not really for or against it…I have no idea…
We would have some really good size as a team if we traded knight, henson and sexton.
5: Drummond 6’11”
4: Love 6’8″
3: Osman 6’7″
2: Windler/KPJ 6’6″ 6’4″
1: Garland 6’1″
Bench
5: TT/Zizic 6’9″ 6’10”
4: Nance Jr 6’7″
3: Wade 6’8″
2: Windler/KPJ 6’6″ 6’4″
1: Exum 6’5″
Could be a serious team with some serious depth.
I don’t mind the idea, but I wouldn’t give up Sexton or a pick to have Drummond walk for the max deal he will be offered, and I wouldn’t resign him to a max.
I would definitely trade Sexton for a chance at Drummond, and I’d definitely pay Drummond over whatever they want to pay TT.
I mean you already have one max guy locked up for years if love decides to stay. Is Drummond a guy you want to spend that amount on versus a bunch of good role players? I would rather find two good role players. I also don’t want to sign tt. My issue is literally the value. Trading Sexton certainly isn’t worth what very well could be 30 games of Drummond. You could probably do better for Sexton. I believe that even with everything that annoys me about him. Finally if they want Drummond, they can just wait and throw a… Read more »
No way you can get literally anything for Sexton. His metrics on 3pt shooting, passing, and defending are some of the worst in the NBA. The purpose of trading him is to get out of that contract a year early and prevent him from stunting the growth of Garland, Porter, and Cedi.
Your 2nd point is good tho, they could wait and sign him in FA, but bird rights might come into play if they trade for him.
Bird rights could come into play as far as offering him a longer deal, true. As to Sexton, youth and rookie contracts always significantly up trade value. Plus there are always FOs willing to take chances on scorers that young. I think he could net a non-lotto first given the right team. Rookie contracts are wildly and appropriately valued. They have the potential to be the best deals in the nba both due to value if player becomes a positive contributor during it and due to RFA afterwards. At his age he has a number of years to improve on… Read more »
I think you’re wildly overvaluing Sexton.
If I can get one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA for Collin Sexton and expirings for a majority of the season, I think I gotta do it.
It’ll never happen for reasons i think you described, but i think it’s wrong, because it means they’re over-valuing Sexton IMO.
Good points. But having Drummond here first might improve Love’s outlook (and without an addition, we might deal Love inside a month), going after Drummond makes zero sense if Love is gone. We are Processing then. Also, having some legit guys could entice some vets to sign here for cheaper (TT/Henson, a FA, etc). I do not mind having two near max guys, we are not landing another anytime soon. I realize this whole thing is likely fantasy, but is one path to respectability that I can see that does not involve bottoming out for years. That is a straw… Read more »
pretty much agree Jason.
Would like to get Drummond in principle. I am just too risk averse at this stage of a rebuild though.
FWIW, Fansided has 2 options for a Drummond deal:
1) Sexton, Henson, Knight for Drummond.
2) Knight, Henson, 2022 1st for Drummond.
I would do the first one.
I get why people are not super high on Drummond, and he can walk, but I do that all day.
Contenders won’t give much, and a pick will be low. Plus he is expiring.
Yeah, but as much as Sexton aggravates me, he is still on his rookie contract and controlled for years after that. What if Drummond walks? Then we just traded Sexton or a pick for absolutely nothing in return. We aren’t in a position to trade young assets for guys on expirings who will command maxes next summer. And make no mistake, Drummond will decline his option, test the market, and get a max offer from someone. The fa class is crazy weak and he’ll be near the very top of available talent.
Agree with this. The anti-Sexton backlash is getting kind of out of control. He has warts right now, I understand, but he has improved at some things even while regressing at others. I’m not against trading him, but it would have to be for something real.
I don’t view Sexton as an asset.
True Shooting%, FGA/game, FG%, 2PT%/3PT%/FT%
1. Exum, 74.5%, 5.8, 62.9%, 65.2/58.3/73.3
2. Zizic, 65.5%, 3.1, 60.5%, 60.5/n-a/86.7
3. Love, 61.2%, 12.0, 46.1%, 54.5/38.5/85.1
———
4. Nance, 58.1%, 6.4, 49.2%, 61.3/33.7/66.7
5. Clarkson, 58.1%, 11.2, 44.2%, 50.9/37.1/88.4
————
6. Osman, 55.1%, 9.1, 44.2%, 50.9/37.9/63.3
7. Henson, 54.3%, 3.5, 54.0%, 65.3/14.3/38.9
————-
8. Sexton, 52.6%, 15.8, 45.1%, 48.9/29.7/83.0
9. Thompson, 52.1%, 10.4, 49.6%, 49.7/42.9/60.2
10. Porter, 52.1%, 7.4, 43.9%, 51.9/29.7/72.7
11. Garland, 50.8%, 11.0, 39.9%, 42.3/37.0/86.0
————
12. Knight, 47.8%, 5.3, 35.9%, 43.8/33.3/33.3
————-
13. Delly, 41.4%, 3.0, 31.4%, 53.2/13.8/95.5
Point being, we generate around 27 shots per game from guys with above average efficiency (27.3).
We generate 12.6 shots per game for guys with around average shooting efficiency.
We generate 53 shots per game for guys with below average efficiency (52.9)
Check my math, but when you are generating double the amount of shots for low efficiency guys than high (53/27), that is bad.
Feel like this year’s draft is like gum drop bear draft. No real cut and dried #1 pick as far as what you expect out of that spot.
AGREE WITH YOU ON DRUMMOND—–PASS ———–SHOULD THE CAVS -( IF THEY GET ) –DRAFT BALL WITH # 1 PICK ——-HAVEN’T HEARD THE OL MAN SPOUT OFF SO MUCH THIS TIME AROUND / POSSIBLY LEARNED HIS LESSON ?
I don’t want any part of Drummond. He’s a complementary player, not a guy you build a team around.
Mark me in the group that thinks the ball kid is gonna be No. 1 pick.
Lot of draft projections, which are garbage at this point in time, I realize, have him going to Cavs at 2 or 3…
I don’t want him. All the Ball kids have awful shooting fundamentals. But he’ll be the most ready to play and everyone else is so damned warty.
What about Wiseman?
Lonzo has a reworked J and has been lighting it up lately. Pels getting healthier pre-Zion.
Lonzo is 36.6% from deep this year (on 6.3 attempts per game), up from 32.9% last year & 30.5% as a rook. Including 31/75 (41.3%) in his last 11 games.
TS% still awful at 51.6%.
Agree on Ball being #1. Lonzo upping his game helps him.
On Dre, who said anything about building around him? He is a good fit with Love. They give you 35-40 pts and 25-30 boards a night. Efficiently. We dominate the glass, especially defensively. Neither is a great defender in space.
Plus, he is expiring so Det will not be asking the moon. He is gettable. I think.
Only issue is possibility of him walking and what we give up. I don’t really want reggie jackson at all. If he walks we trade expirings for no return. Would like to get some seconds back or a young journeyman back on a cheap contract control for a few years.
ALSO THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT WITH GOING AFTER DRUMMOND IS THAT HE IS A FREE AGENT THIS YEAR —–ARE YOU GOING TO TRADE ALOT OF FUTURE VALUE FOR POSSIBLY A TEMPORAY PLAYER —–NO GARANTEES THAT HE WOULD WANT TO SIGN WITH THE CAVS EVEN IF THEY CAN OFFER THE BEST CONTRACT
Agree the Drummond is not a cornerstone, but none of those are available. And look who would be leaving. None of those guys are cornerstones either. Drummond is twice the player TT is, Knight never plays, and Sexton is addition by subtraction in my view (we have to give Det something, and I prefer Sexton to a future first, maybe a second?). If Drummond walks, the trade Love & start over. If he stays, then keep Love & hope Garland, KPJ, LNJ, Cedi, Windler, Exum, Henson + this year’s pick is a PO team that keeps improving with the young… Read more »
GOOD QUESTION JASON ON DRUMMOND —–HE CAN PROBABLY GIVE YOU 20/ 20 ON ALMOST ANY GIVEN NIGHT / RIM PROTECTOR BUT IS HE THE “NEW NBA ‘ TYPE OF POST PLAYER ALL TEAMS ARE GOING AFTER ———–IF THERE ARE NO REAL FITS FOR THE CAVS IN THIS YEARS DRAFT / THEN WE SHOULD LOOK FOR TRADING THAT DRAFT PICK / AM SURE THERE ARE PLAYERS THAT WOULD FIT OTHER TEAMS / THAT THOSE TEAMS WOULD COVET
Heard a rumor the Cavs are kicking the tires on getting involved in the Drummond sweepstakes.
How about this: Drummond and Reggie Jackson for TT, Knight, and Sexton. Everyone on expirings save Sexton & Drummond with an option. We eat about $7 million in salary.
Garland, Exum, Cedi, Love, Drummond
Jackson, KPJ, Windler, LNJ, Henson
Delly, Zizic, Wade.
Despite the loss, was glad to see Love had a good game. He often struggles when going up against guys like Drummond.
I’m out on Anthony Edwards… reminds me too much of Sexton.
Stinks that there aren’t a lot of guys at the tops who are really good fits for the Cavs next draft…Maybe Wiseman, but he’s a bit of a ? as well…
I’m all in on Haliburton from Iowa State… i still like Wendell Moore too… he’s a better passer/playmaker than he gets credit for and he has the size for the 3/4. I like the big from Duke too, but he really needs to develop the stand still jump shot.
Chucker. Some guys grow out of it, some do not.
The thing is, who are we tanking for?
No one is the answer. They need to know how to execute. Need to know how to manufacture shots for your best player. Need to know how to feed the hot hand.
They did neither. Deserved loss.
Ultimately, I don’t think Beilein is here to win games, he’s here to develop young players which I think he’s doing. KPJ (especially) and Garland both are progressing. Perhaps Exum can find his way here and Sexton can have his eyes opened. When it’s time for this team to start winning games, it’s time for Bickerstaff.
https://twitter.com/Djones43092/status/1214735387345801217?s=20
I think he’s been mostly fine…Red Auerbach isn’t winning 30 games with this team…
His ooto plays are so lame.
Seems like it’s not a strength but otherwise I think he’s fine…,
I get that we’re young, but my god we must be the worst closers in history.
Koby Gilbert sucks.
OMG, so close…
WOW!! that was a great pass… had a shot
On a night where Love goes 12/15, no shots in last 3 minutes.
I get a big can get doubled/denied, but come ON.
Very disappointing…Cavs should have won this…but on the other hand, tank on, I suppose…
Beilein suuucks.
awful shot… Sexton stays chucking.
Bride of Chucky.
Ughh
Well, we got a shot at it.
That’s the garbage Beilein came up with?
he didn’t even look close to line???
Did not even get a shot up.
No shots for Kev in the last 2:57 is criminal.
Jesus. These refs suck
Terrible call. Terrible.
All we had to do was not give up a quick shot to get the last shot.
Did not happen.
WTF, way too easy for Rose… Delly with some poor defense there.
No way. All on TT.
Wrong… no reason for Delly to go over a screen for Derrick Rose beyond the 3 point line.
If the coach told him to…
cool, that has nothing to do with TT.
I have no idea but he was literally defending two guys with TT dropping so far.
Terrible d TT.
Clutch Collin
Got a couple of good looks for Cedi and Sexton… got the foul.
That should be a goaltend on Drummond. Slapped the ball on the rim!
I thought so…
Another Beilein fail.
Not sure what you expect him to do…they had used their review…and worked in Cavs favor earlier…
Didn’t realize.
Beilein so out of his depth
Run a play for Love, FFS.
Snell…such a scrub…
WOW…. Garland has to finish that… also Love had a big/little mismatch if they clear out the left side for the post up, not sure where the shot clock was.
Man. Thought Garland had that
Should have dropped…
Should’ve gone to love.
GOT YOU COVERED SIMMO —-
Great d Sexton
29 ASSISTS—DELLY WITH 9 !!
Could really use Exum to defend Rose…
Pretty freaking cheap flagrant…
That’s crap.
WTF was that Sexton???? dumb play
GARLAND TO LOVE FOR THREE!!!
Can’t watch this game but would love to be motivated to watch replay by a good victory! Keep the comments flowing pls!
Cedi Wan Kenobi
GARLAND POCKET PASS!!! TT TO CEDI FOR THREE!!!
As soon as Garland gets the passing out of double teams down on the PnR, it will take his game to another level.
Cedi!
Big triple from Cedi there. Up 3.
Yezus. Some terrible swings.
TO bug bites Kev.