Live Thread : Cavs vs Spurs
2020-03-08Welcome to Cleveland, Pop. The Cavs are looking to help knock you out of the playoffs, and an injured Lonnie Walker, Demarcus Aldridge, Jacob Poeltle, and Marco Bellinelli won’t make it easier for your Spurs. Meanwhile, the Cavs will be missing Tristan, KPJ, Garland, Exum, and Dean Wade. It should be interesting. I’m expecting a Spurs win but the way things have been going lately, who knows? Go Cavs.
The Hawks won last night, so we are bottom of the East again. So bunched at the bottom. After tonight, we could be anywhere from 29th to tied for 25th & 1 game behind the Bulls for 24th.
I actually kind of hope tonight is a competitive loss for the Cavs. Important for the Bulls to get this one.
Bulls have been getting somewhat healthier. Carter, Markannen, and Otto Porter have returned recently. Though, like us, they still have a lot of guys out (Lavine, Nunn, Hutcinson, + a couple more).
Hopefully no PG Drummond tonight. Still, with only 2 healthy guards, it is gonna be rough. Gonna have to see Cedi at the two, but Valentine is not quick enough to expose him. More Larry at the 3.
Looks like 7 guys + Zizic again. Delly, Sexton, Cedi, Love, Drummond, Nance, McKennie.
Cavs are playing a lot better. More fun to watch.
FWIW, Amico has TT out with a corneal abrasion for the Bulls game. No word on how long he is out for. May need goggles to come back.
Lavine is also out. He has torched us this year.
https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/nba-amico/tristan-thompson-cavs-bulls-nba-news
Cavs might struggle to rebound with his absence except that Drummond and Love And Nance get those minutes. Zizic maybe gets 8. I expect 30 assists if Drummond cuts his weird desire to dribble and another win. Bulls arent good with Lavine…they will be awful on offense without him.
Thanks NOMAD. I had done a Kyrie wonkout on the trade at various points. So I was not starting from scratch. We have made 3 Kyrie/derivative trades per year. I have done the wonk work after each year. Year 1: 1) Original trade; 2) IT, Frye, + 1st to Lakers for LNJ & Capt. BandAid; 3) Crowder, Shump, Rose for Hill/Hood deal. Year 2: 1) Hill to Mil for Delly, Henson & picks; 2) Hood to Portland for Stauskas, Baldwin & 2 2nds; 3) Sauce, Baldwin, a Mil pick from Hill deal to Hou & Burks to Sac for Knight,… Read more »
YOU MADE MY DAY AGAIN BUCKAROO—THANK YOU —-YEP ALWAYS KEEP ROLLING ROCK ON ICE FOR WHATEVER AILS YOU –WHETHER IT BE COVID-19 / A BAD CAVS LOSS / THAT ANNOYING “CTB TROLL ” / MRS NOMAD’S HONEYDO LIST : – )
JASON THANK YOU FOR THE WORK ON THE KYRIE TRADE ALOT OF “FOOTPRINTS ” IN THAT DEAL——–NATE ALSO THANK YOU FOR THE “HEALTH COVID-19 ” READ ——YES THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE ——BLAMING IT ON THE MEDIA —WHO ARE IN FULL BLOWN ANXIETY / PANIC MODE ———–THIS IS MY THEORY WHY BEILEIN STEPPED DOWN——–IT WAS AT THE TIME HE MADE HIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE COVID-19 REALLY STARTED TO GARNER MEDIA ATTENTION —–BEILEIN WNTED NO PART OF THE TRAVEL / GETTING WORE DOWN / EXPOSURE / ETC——–SO I AM CALLING BEILEIN’S DEPARTURE —“THE COVID-19 RESIGNATION “—HOW THAT FOR A CONSIRACY THEORY ………….”… Read more »
NOMAD bro.. good pt on beilein.. as a fellow oldster, i fully support his decision to bail (plus, the team sucked fumes with him at the helm).. and yes, vit d3 w/a chaser of zinc/copper.. through the NOMAD rolling rock high-efficiency pacifier.. accept no pretenders.. the only adult pacifier to use when you require both a full 12oz bottle down the pipes on one swig (while watching hoops) and complete control of your high anxiety..
Anyway, I counted 8 subsequent deals: IT to the Lakers; Crowder (+Rose & Shump) to Utah/Sac; Hill (+ Dekker) to Mil/Wash; Hood to Portland; Hood to Portland players + Burks to Sac/Hou; Clarkson to Utah; Hood to Portland picks + 2 other seconds to Detroit; Drummond deal.
Anyway, I treated it like a math problem, if players or picks came IN and then OUT, I treated it like numbers on both sides of a math equation & cancelled them out. Here is what I got.
Chronologically:
IN: Zizic, 2018 1st (Sexton), LNJ, Eurostash guy (Gudaitis), Delly, 2022 1st (Mil, Prot 1-10), 2022 2nd (Wash), 2019 1st (Windler), 2022 2nd (Hou), Exum, 2022 2nd (SA), Porter Jr, Drummond.
OUT: Irving, Frye, 2018 1st (Mo Wagner), Rose, 2024 2nd pick swap rights (to Utah), Shump, EuroStash guy (Agravanis), Dekker, 2021 2nd (Wash), Burks, 2020 2nd (Utah), 2024 2nd (Mia, prot 1-55).
This is exhausting.
In terms of importance:
IN: Drummond, LNJ, Sexton (2018 1st), Porter (2019 1st), Delly, Windler (2019 1st), Exum, Zizic, 2022 1st (Mil), 2022 2nd (Wash), 2022 2nd (SA), 2022 2nd (Hou), EuroStash (Gudaitis).
OUT: Irving, Rose, Burks, Shump, Wagner (2018 1st), Frye, Dekker, 2021 2nd (Wash), 2020 2nd (Utah), 2024 2nd swap (Utah), 2024 2nd (Mia, prot 31-55), EuroStash (Agravanis).
I like our take better.
Public service.
Yep, I’ve been sharing that, too. Worth reading start to finish.
I saw a piece from Terry Pluto basically re-analyzing the Irving trade 3 years down the line. Taking into account KI missing 2 of the last 3 POs, and the C’s getting pummeled by the Bucks when he did.
Pluto basically boils down our return to Sexton & LNJ for Kyrie. I found his analysis….oversimplified and a tad lazy. Yeah, I get it is hard to track all the subsequent trades involving pieces of the Kyrie deal, or pieces derived from those pieces, or pieces/derived pieces plus other assets. I count 8.
Terry Pluto should have his name legally changed to Tad Lazy.
Can we still do fanposts here? Anyway, here is what I found: 8 of our 13 players on NBA contracts were acquired (at least partially) with pieces/derived pieces (plus other assets in some cases) from the Kyrie deal.
The 5 who are not? TT, Love, Cedi, Garland, and McKennie. Everyone else is, in some fashion.
I’d be happy to set u up to do a post
I spilled the beans here. At least without most of the details. If you think anyone cares about the details, that is.
It just comes up periodically, and while I knew Pluto missed a lot at just LNJ & Sexton, I was really expecting 8 guys.
Of course we had to add some sweeteners and stuff, and we recycled some assets, but beyond Rose & Burks, no one is even rotation level (maybe Wagner). Only Kyrie is a starter.
Delly’s defensive intensity & passing shows what type of player can work well with Sexton, and to a lesser extent, Garland. Has to be a guy who is a good defender, can guard 2s (or maybe even 3s), and run an offense. And make a shot when called upon. I think Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton are all in that mold if we want to draft another guard. Six guards (Sexton, Garland, Porter, Delly, Exum, + pick) could be a tad high, but if 3/4 can defend 2s/3s it will be OK. If we decide to go for a TT/Ante replacement… Read more »
LBJ, Doncic, Kawhi, PG, Ingram, Siakam, Tatum, Middleton, Butler, Oubre, TJ Warren, Hayward, Kuzma, Ingles, Deandre Hunter, Reddish, Duncan Robinson, Hood, the Morris bros, MPJ, Wiggins, Bojan Bogdonovich, Durant, Barnes, Simmons are some guards/wings 6’7” or taller that the other wing might have to guard. Ball is tall but skinny so is probably fine against skinnier guys in that list (in theory). Guessing he has a ways to go on d. Hayes seems like he might have the height and frame with strength training. Halliburton has the height but is pretty skinny right now. But with an smallish pg (in… Read more »
On TT, while I understand he has value, and should, my understanding is that most of the contenders are maxed out or ckose to it. The Hawks have significant cash, but they just got Capela.
If TT wants to take a pay cut to play for a contender then he is gone. If he wants a big payday he could be disappointed. If he wants a decent payday for a team that will scrap for a PO spot & where he is beloved, then he could stay.
SAID THIS YESTERDAY–SAY IT AGAIN —DELLY NEEDS TO BE ON THE CAVS BENCH / IN CAVS UNIFORM –FOREVER !!!!!!!!
WOW –SORRY I TOOK “MY PACIFIER ” AND WENT TO BED EARLY —-“BEILEIN’S ADVANCE SCOUTING IS DOING WONDERS ” : – ) —–NEED TO GET OUR ” ALL STAR ” CAVS COACHING UMIT HIRED QUICKLY —OUR LOTTERY PICK SLIPPING AWAY RAPIDLY !!!
Missed this one, unfortunately.
But on a completely expected and hilarious note, on the latest Lowe pod, I believe, there was discussion that Atkinson is out with the Nets because Deandre Jordan wasn’t happy with playing time. It can always be worse, folks.
Btw…delly just had 2 epic games in a row defensively, and notched double digit assists in both games while exhausted. Anyone who says he is overrated is kidding themselves. He was a rookie in 2013 but was a podium player in the finals in 2015. Find me a guard with size who can make the passes he makes consistently when he gets 30+ mins…and I’ll show you an NBA starter. Sorry…he is not a spot minutes guy at this point. Especially not when he is hitting 3s at 35-40% which he has for the last month. He is a game… Read more »
after his Milwaukee adventure his contract should be here at fair value. There is no-one but Delly and Tt to pay. Dre if he opts out. 2016 contracts were a disaster that killed their chances with KD in gs. Fair value will get it done this time.
TT has improved his value for the last 2 years in a lot of GMs eyes. He has added a post game that isn’t stuffed every single time and also has a 10 foot jumper that is decently reliable. The best development in his game though is his willingness to pass out of the post. If you think other GMs sleep on those developments you underestimate scouts. The other thing that has improved is his rim defense…he is not elite but he also is shorter than most rim defenders…but is intimidating in the lane now. Took the Cavs from pitiful… Read more »
FWIW, we are technically out of the cellar in the East, 0.5 up on the Hawks due to 1 less loss.
We certainly have some winnable games next week with the Bulls, Hornets, and Hawks. I’d like to see us go 2-1.
Wins:
15 GSW
——–
19: ATL, Cavs, Minny
20: Det, NY
21: Chicago
22: Charlotte
23: Wash
Schedule: at Chi, at Cha, at Atl, at Hou, at Orl, at Indy.
6 game roadie. Let us get three or four.
Cavs matched last years win total.
Plus minuses:
Drummond +18, Love +14, Nance +3, Sexton +2, Delly -2, Osman -4, Fonzie -9.
Also wonder if we play .500 or so from here (which would be the last 29 games), if TT would consider staying as well. And Love a happier camper.
For both sides TT will be a business decision. He’s not getting 10+ per year from a maxed out contender. Unless you watch him all of the time it’s hard to understand that he is more valuable than Larry Nance at 13M/Year. Something like four years at 15M but give him an option on every year. Does Delly get more than 5M/year? No other teams see these players as worth much more than that. I imagine that they and Dre will start next year in Cleveland as they’ll make more there than elsewhere.
Stats:
Delly: 45 min: 14/2/11. 3-11; 2-6 3PT.
Drummond: 28/17/1, 3 Blk. 11-16 FG.
Nance: 43 min: 19/10; 7-13, 3-5 3PT.
Osman: 19/4/6: 6-14, 4-8 3PT
Fonzie: 10/5/1/1/1: 4-6, 2-2 3PT
Sexton: 26/1/4. 7 TO.
Love: 40 min. 14/18/3. 4 TO.
Hope TT is OK.
Bickerstaff Cavs playing .500 ball, Corby sweating it right now. Personally I’d rather see this team develop a winning culture than playing for a lottery pick. The draft is such a crap shoot anyway outside of the occasional Zion or LeBron that I wonder how much of a difference it makes. Even with Philly finally seeing “the process “ through, they don’t have a winning pedigree, deep down they’re still losers.
With this draft class and the newer odds, 100%
Probably keeps Dre interested in staying as well.
28/17. Cavs got fleeced. /s
Delly definitely a stabilizing presence the past few games. Cavs actually run an offense when he runs the show.
Whew! Good thing Pop burned that TO.
TV says 4 guys with double doubles (Drummond, Nance, Love, Delly) for the first time since 1990.
6-5 in last 11. 5-5 under JB. Lot of those at home. A lot of them shorthanded.
Amazing how much better we look with more vets (Delly, Love, Nance, TT, Dre) and less younglings (Sexton, Garland, Porter) out there.
Sexton had a poor game no doubt. Turnovers were killer as were forays into three to four guys that more or less functioned as live ball tovs.
He had a poor game because the Spurs have enormous guards who could sell out on him the whole game because Cavs didn’t have any other guards capable of scoring.
He made bad decisions much of the time. That was due his failure to see the floor and trying to force the issue far too often. He had a number of drives into walls of defenders which functioned like turnovers, several wasted possessions where he more or less dribbled out the clock only to pass to teammate without enough time to make a real move, and 7 turnovers. All of these wasted possessions were costly.
I make this point even as someone who is pleased with his progress this year and who has defended him of late. This was just an off game based on poor decisions and a mixed bag of defensive performance. He scored 26 points, but on 54.5% TS while the cavs as a whole had a TS of 57.9%. Despite the points, it wasn’t super efficient like he has been of late, and his decision making led to double digit wasted possessions. He’ll be fine. Just has to choose his spots, see defenses better, and perhaps function primarily off ball in… Read more »
In general drummond was huge that game despite some risky dribbling (that didn’t result in tovs) and missed fts. His defensive boarding is actually a huge asset. And he had some key o boards and putbacks as well as protected the rim some.
Yeah, even with some early brainfarts, 28/17/1 with 3 blocks is hard to ignore. And nothing dumb in crunch time. And a couple sneaky good passes.
JB seems better at using Love & Nance.
100% JB has utilized both better. Not sure if that is due to injuries forcing the issue. By that I mean injuries preventing direction from the FO to play the kids and allow them free rein.
nice win.. uncle buck is in.. the worm has turned
Hey two in a row!!!!!
Spurs not going away.
Mills clutch
Ok…..make both of these sexton.
Game as long as Cedi makes one of these.
Love taking a stupid pill. Bad TO then fouls a 3PT shooter.
Lol
White gets love with the banana.
Usually dishes the banana, forced to eat it instead
Oh boy. That was not good love.
Bye Murray
Make fts delly.
Still in control. Just execute.
I’ll cut Larry slack for being exhausted.
Gay is exhausted
Nance just missed that.
Then Liles got there.
Amazing block on nance. Chaotic end.
Nance gotta dunk that.
He tried.
Delly with a “veteran move” to draw some freebies.
Sexton dribble forays have been mostly disaster. Spurs have him scouted well.
the beast is feasting..
Sexton nearly wastes another possession
Gay finally misses a 3. Love finally makes one.
Sexton got stripped again inbetween.
Sexton assist.
Sorry couldn’t help myself
Dimeavedova
Great recognition
Huge love trey!!!!!!