Podcap: Cleveland 117, Washington 107 (OT) (Arise, Donovan Prime)
2022-10-24This was a weird one. But Donovan Mitchell, “you got the touch! You got the power!” Donovan Prime arose and lit our darkish hour with a 37-point virtuoso performance, and has already picked up the mantle as the on-the-court leader of the Wine and Gold. Running out of Energon, Mitchell got pretty tired late, coughed up the ball a few times, and let the Wizards back into a game the Cavs had won. Fortunately, Donovan, Caris, Cedi, Dean Wade, and Jarrett Allen rallied, and took a small deficit in overtime to a double digit lead to knock out Washington.
Most perplexing was the complete passivity on offense of Isaac Okoro who looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on the court, offensively. Slightly less perplexing: the minor struggles of Evan Mobley who has been “ok” the first few games of the season. In Mobley’s defense, missing training camp and youth can explain things. In the Okoro’s case, the CtB crew were completely baffled. Fortunately, when the lights are on in the regular season, the truth comes out, and all the pre-season fluff pieces about young guys are overwritten by the play of the vets and stars in their prime. Donovan is definitely entering his prime, Caris is providing necessary secondary ball-handling, playmaking, and defense. Jarrett Allen comes up with a couple spectacular blocks per game, and Cedi Osman has exceeded all expectations with stellar performances the last two games.
Chris, Nate, and Eli break it all down, evaluate the J.B. Bickerstaff coaching experience, and take a look around the NBA for your listening pleasure.
Listen below, download the full audio file, or listen on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, or Spotify.
Powered by RedCircle
LT up
thanksk Raoul!
WORLD B —YES YOU CAN COACH PROPER TECH. FOR BOXING OUT // SPIN AROUNDS FOR POSITIONING // ARMS STRETCHED—ELBOWS OUT ——MOST DOES COME DOWN TO ANTICIPATION—-DESIRE —HUSTLE—STAMINA ——–I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ANALYTIC OF THE % OF 3 PT SHOT REBOUNDS WE GET OR DON’T GET —– REALLY THINK OUR GD’S DON’T DO A GOOD JOB OF ANTICIPATING WHERE THE BALL WILL BE—-BEATING THE OPPONENT TO THE SPOT—-BOXING OUT —OUT OF POSITION—ETC
I agree, we let a lot of long rebounds go.
JUST GOT MY 1ST CASE OF –GREAT LAKES CHRISTMAS ALE—-ALREADY ICED DOWN FOR TONIGHTS GAME —” TIS THE SEASONFOR MORE BEER PLEASE ” :-)
Boston Celtics forward Grant Williams suspended one game, against Cavs.
I think CtB basically had Vassel, Hali, Okongwu at that spot. Think all three are gonna be great. We did like not love Okoro though. Thought he had a high floor. Okongwu gonna be starting for Atlanta by eoy
If I recall, I think I liked Vassell the most, Nate liked Haliburton the most, and David Wood loved Okongwu the most. Okoro was a “meh” but okay pick to fill the need.
CLF AGREE WITH YOU —-HOPEFULLY —ON ICE—THAT HE WILL PROBABLY BE A “LATE BLOOMER ” AGE 23 —–MANY EXAMPLES OF PLAYERS NOT ‘FEELING IT ” UNTIL YEAR 4-5 –LET’S HOPE IT IS POSSIBLY SOONER
HELL YEAH LETS GOOOOOOO
Suns blow out Dubs, Clay T’s out.
Man, Suns and Dubs talking, getting technicals. Klay ejected.
I cannot stand either team, but since Crowder is banished and Draymond is still such a jerk, I guess I will go with the Suns. I like Bridges.
wow.. trey murphy lll in year 2 liftoff mode.. a #17 pick
just got a sneak peak at my buddy’s plus/minus metric, Donovan Mitchell top 5 and Caris LeVert grading out well. Should have a tweet about it soon I’ll post.
I always forget Kidd is the Mavs coach. Eff them. Hope NO crushes them by 40 tonight.
Gonna be hard without Zion & Ingram, but they are hanging in there.
I could see Dallas missing the POs entirely. Top 6 seems dicey: Dubs, Clips, Suns, & Grizz seem safely top 6. Nuggets & Pels would be my next two. Mavs, Blazers, & Wolves very much in the mix.
Well it wasn’t a 40 point shellacking but I’ll take it.
BUCKAROO SOME FUNNY STUFF—–MY ” HOOK ” SHOT ALWAYS WON THE GAME OF H-O-R-S-E AND SOME ……” MORE BEER PLEASE “………………I WILL NEVER GIVE UP ON ICE UNTIL HE ACTUALLY GIVES UP ON HIMSELF—-MEANING HE ISN’T PUTTING THE NECCESARY TIME/ EFFORT IN TO IMPROVE ——–I WILL NEVER HAVE ENOUGH HAIR TO EVER RESEMBLE ” ROLO”
I have a friend who looks just like RoLo
i enjoy that he operates in slo-mo
OMG !! i just looked at ESPN that had a photo of the LA coach with his arm around poor russ (looking like a squirrel in the middle of the road with an 18-wheeler bearing down at 80 mph).. and i had this horrific thought.. “what if okoro has westbrook disease”.. !!?? on a bright note, anfernee simons didn’t elevate until year 4.. you don’t want to give up too soon on a talent that just has its own maturation schedule.. that being said, “westbrook disease” is real, as is “steve blass disease”.. however, simons was a #23.. okoro was… Read more »
Interesting to look back at the 2020 draft. Other than Ant and LaMelo who went before Okoro, Halliburton is probably the only player in the top 15 you can argue Koby should’ve picked over Ice. Strangely, when you get to 19-21 (Bey, Achiuwa, Maxey) you find the guys you’d probably rather have. And of course Bane at 30, but of course this is all 20/20 hindsight. I do believe this season will determine a ton for Ice, but I don’t think judging from the first 3 games is either fair or indicative. Let’s see where he is at the All-Star… Read more »
Wasn’t so much hindsight when Nate and I were advocating for Haliburton or Vassell at the time LMFAOOO but yeah, weird draft.
Agreed though as I said on the pod, Okoro’s age 21 on a possible contending team… he was bound to struggle a bit still. I’m looking at him to pop off at age 23-ish, maybe even later as a late bloomer.
WATCHING THESE YOUNG CAVS IS SIMILAR TO WATCHING MY BOYS—WHO ALL ARE UP ( THEY ALL SET ASIDE TIME THIS TIME OF YEAR FOR PEAK HARVEST SEASON ) TO” BOND AND KICK SOME (GR ) ASS OUT IN THE FIELDS– SIMILAR TO WHAT THE CAVS ARE DOING ON THE COURT——GIVES ME IMMENSE PRIDE / JOY / SATISFACTION WATCHING BOTH “PERFORM ” !!————ALWAYS HAVE TO REMIND THE BOYS—-” IF MOMMA ( THE MRS NOMAD) ” AIN’T HAPPY – NOBODY IS HAPPY “———–HAVE NOW HAD TO IMPART THAT WISDOM ONTO MY GRANDCHILDREN —WITH A LITTLE TWIST —–” IF GRAMMY AIN’T HAPPY………RUN …… Read more »
NOMAD bro.. keep on rock ‘n rollin’ with the roling rock.. i am thinkn you look like robin lopez in about 30 years.. hows your hook shot ? hoping okoro gets his act together.. perhaps he need some time on the farm with a mentor to get his head straight.. looking forward to being able to say his name (“ice”) like the old busch beer commercials.. buschhhhhh
Great pod guys, good to have the Korean connection back in action. I think we need to be a little more patient with Okoro and Mobley. Like CLF stated, they’re both just kids. Taking some lumps in October so the two of them can hand out some lumps to opposing teams in spring is surely worth it. The strength of the team is the team, the group will carry them through their growing pains.
Do you guys realize we have a guy named Remy Martin on our G-League team?
Gave me a good smile on a day without a Cavs game…
On a more serious note, for those of you who have coached, etc, do you think you can teach rebounding or is it more of an innate skill/instinct?
It just baffles me how you can have JA/EM’s length and not be a presence (to say nothing of a force) on the boards…
IMO, part of it is skill/instinct…. the ability to anticipate the miss and where it’s going. The other half is simply effort… having the energy/stamina/physical toughness to chase the ball.
and energy/stamina to fight the other players
for sure.
If we had room, I’d consider taking a flyer on TT.
But he may be washed.
yeah. Of course, if we could magically get the 24 year old TT, let’s go one better and get the 24 yo Dennis Rodman!
Cavs are already fun to watch even in October when probably most of general sports population is unaware basketball even started. The Guardians became exciting over time. Meanwhile the Browns just look sad/depressing. Thankfully the other two squads give us something to watch. I think some folks were surprised how good DM is. I mean he’s clearly the teams best player already and most likely will be all year. I’m not concerned about players struggling, I might be when its Jan/Feb, but nothing matters now. This team needs to be built for long season April/May – even June? Everyone can… Read more »
Agree 100%. It will take time. The questions entering the season were about the trade and individual development of the younger guys.
We can safely say Mitchell is fine. No worries there. Next we have to establish how DG & Spida work together. Hopefully a synergistic thing rather than taking turns. And then weave the other guys into that synergy. Allen. Love. LeVert. The shooters. Then Mobes & Okoro. As the most raw.
As a I said, Spida & the 3 PT shooting look great so far. With DG out, that is about as far as the experiment can progress. Though I can say LeVert already looks better on D when healthy.
Spida and DG are going to be the drivers of the team offensively. Get that interaction correct, and then fit in the ancillary guys. Allen & Mobley drive us defensively. We are top 5-6 on both ends so far. A great start in my book. Certainly way too early to be hypercritical about anything.
Just to be clear, I do think the “who starts at SF” question is part of the equation. With DG out, SG becomes part if it.
We now have LeVert, Okoro, Osman, & Wade conpeting for two spots instead of one. LeVert + 1 ATM. Okoro started, Osman finished. Each guy gives you a little something different in terms of shooting, size, defensive versatility, and ball handling.
I am encouraged JB is willing to be flexible. I might play Neto a touch more vs Orlando. Try to keep Spida under 40 if possible.
agree across the board.
Sure the EC is deep and good — but so are the Cavs. I rate the Bucks and Celts as the only top ranked teams without huge question marks. And injuries can knock any team out of contention.
I am going with: Top 3 isn’t out of reach or ridiculous.
76ers get their first win over Indy. Heat fall to 1-3 with loss to Toronto. Bulls hand the Cs their first loss.
Jazz no longer perfect. Lose to Houston. Lauri 14 pts on 7-18 & 0-6 from deep. Sexton 10 on 4/7 off the bench. Agbaji DNP. KPJ 26/10/4 on 8 of 19.
Heat are in trouble if Lowry plays like he’s washed more often than not. His stat lines so far would look pretty at home on that lottery Laker team.
So great having the Lakers in the Lottery, and they don’t have the pick. HaHa!
Bane has 28 on 6-8 from deep in that game.
Grizz also have JJJ, Brooks, Zaire Williams, and Danny Green out injured.
Brooks back tonight. My mistake.
ja smoking flat-earth (33 to 18).. grizz up 8 (100-92) late in 3rd
Durant is cooking too, but the Nets cannot get any stops. Grizz scored 45 in the 3rd quarter.
Boston was up 29-10 in Chicago early, now down 103-84. That is a 93-55 run.
love it
championship confirmed
Championships are won in October.
SAM MERRIL IS MY NEW ” GLEAGUE IDOL// HOPEFUL” —-HE ONCE SCORED 30 PTS FOR THE GRIZZLIES—-THEY CUT HIM AND KEPT CULVER AND DUNN—–HIS STROKE IS PURE ——-I WOULD GIVE HIM A SHOT OVER WINDLER RIGHT NOW—-AT LEAST HE IS HEALTHY ——CHECK OUT SOME OF HIS HIGHLIGHTS—-SALIVATE OVER THAT SHOOTING STROKE
are they able to add him at this point ? under what conditions, if any ?
What’s a fair price to pay Love in his next contract? He’s of course not signed past this season.
It’d be good for cap flexibility if they could get him for something like $50M total over three years, but that’s less on average what LeVert is making this year.
Would another team outbid an offer like $45M over two years? Is he even worth that much to the Cavs–namely a bit more than Jarrett Allen per year for a shorter time?
I have no clue but it will be fascinating to see. Thinking back to where things were before last season, it’s surreal to even think he’d be in a position where both sides would be happy to bring him back. Now it’s hard to imagine them not…
top backups are making just a touch above MLE, so your 3/50 idea is a realistic number.
So far this year, he’s playing some of the best ball of his career.
Massive credit to JB for that.
yup
I wonder the same thing about him securing one more FA bag like that, taking 20+ over two years somewhere, at the end of the day it’s hard to think which team would do that.
I have this fantasy that Love gives us a discount to stay. He loves JB. We are potentially building a contender. And he has to feel like he was stealing money a couple years on this last contract.
I think (hope?) there is a good chance of a major home town discount. Love has found a home, a role, and will be in the ring chase in his last few years.
I want to keep Love here for the rest of his career. Hang his Jersey in the rafters. I hope we could have him for 3/45
I like it.
Put Love’s and LBJ’s jerseys side by side, with an empty spot next to them, where KI’s would have been if he hadn’t gone flat-earth on us.
Cavs Def Rtg is 5th.
Mobley is 56% on FGs. I will take that.
That’s good to hear regarding def rating. I honestly would have thought they’d be further down, middle of the pack. I’ve had a hard time gauging so far game by game. They’ve had some good stretches and some really crappy ones as well.
Okoro starts because he is our best perineter defender. It is not hard to figure.
I will agree that Okoro is a net negative on offense. But Okoro + Mobley + Allen is three non-shooters.
Mobley is fine. He missed virtually all of camp.
He and Allen are both poor defensive rebounders. Nothing new there. And Okoro is HORRIBLE.
Our biggest bugaboos are defensive rebounding and turnovers.
THANKS GUYS FOR THE RECAP—-GIANNIS 1ST 3.5 YRS IN THE LEAGUE WEREN’T ALL THAT SPECTACULAR——HE HIT THE WEIGHT ROOM// WORKED ON HIS SKILLLS AND ….WELL WE ALL SEE WHAT BLOSSOMED—-NOT SAYING MOBES IS GOING TO BECOME GIANNIS —-BUT LET’S REVIEW 2-3 YRS FROM NOW AFTER HE HAS ADDED 25—30 LBS OF MUSCLE// IMPROVED HIS HANDLE —–HE IS ARLEADY AHEAD OF GIANNIS AS FAR AS PASSING AND OVERALL BALL HANDLING–3 PT SHOOTING ———-WELL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF ICE REMAINS IN ” OFFENSE LIMBO” IF THE CAVS DON’T TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THE G LEAGUE DRAFT PICK SAM MERRIL WHO… Read more »
Great Pod! As to why Orlando is not taking a step with Banchero doing amazing things…they still play Chuma Okeke, Mo Bamba, and Bol Bol off the bench. For real minutes. Looking at that team, if they can find some real role players they could make some noise. Not this year though.
Surely they will tank hard and harder if Pacho starts winning games.
Thanks DaveR!
I am thrilled with 2-1, though it easily could be 3-0.
Hopefully we hold serve vs Orlando without DG. Then a big test Friday.
It’s a long season. Come the end, it might just be Okoro & Mobley carrying Osman & Love.
Feels like the Cavs approach to development is a bit off honestly. Maybe in the long run it works out. Okoro feels lost because they’re trying to develop him to be something he is not well suited for at this point. Same feels a little true of Mobley right now.
agree.. mobes has to stick to his knitting and get his offense close to the board.. not ready to go mano-a-mano in the style of giannis.. he is rushing things.. and the “hall of fame” talk in the locker room is counter-productive, imho.. let the young brother play his game and grow naturally..
Just. Work. On. The. Handle.
We are in a tricky place for young guys to develop. We are chasing wins not driving a tank, and have two (three when Rubio returns) elite level playmakers. A elite level finisher around the rim in JA. And one of the best floor spacing PFs ever in Love (who is also a good passer).
It makes no sense, per possession, to let guys like Mobley & Okoro create, or even shoot much, really. But both guys are such great defenders that if their offense improves a bit, the team becomes a monster.
So you have to let them try some in game stuff, but not so much that the offense gets hijacked or we risk losing otherwise winnable games.
It is a fine line to walk between winning & development. Hopefully we have some more Cavalanches and they get more opportunities.
I hope the offense flows seamlessly when DG comes back. I hope our team can figure out a way to avoid a “your-turn-my-turn” offense with DG and DM.
<>
I have complete confidence they will figure it out offensively. Both dudes are incredibly talented and team oriented. I think the floor is raised enough with both of them out there that the growing pains won’t be that painful. Can’t be worse than when one of them is missing games…
They both have solid enough skill set off ball to make it work. I add that, because Colin was a talented and team oriented guy as well, but I don’t think his off-ball skills were ever going to be there enough to make it work long term.
Okoro might be the odd man out.
The talent on this team will not make him realize his potential at least offensively.
If we plan to get a legit 3&D wing (not an undersized one) then Ice should be the piece to flip.
The way he’s playing, he’s a negative asset RN.
The first string of good games he will have this season I’ll trade him right away. Lol.
I won’t defend the offense, but DDR did not do much, and I think Okoro was the one mostly responsible.
If he is in a lineup with Mobley & Allen, there is no room inside. He cannot cut. Standing in the corner is all he has. Conversely, if he is out there with 2 of Love, Cedi, & Wade + DG/Spida, the floor should be way more open.
Still our best perimeter defender by a mile. We have won both games he started. No way we should not keep giving him 20-25 min a game.
Time to give Lamar some run. Maybe the IO problem is the nickname? You can’t play with fire when your name is Ice? Also, unfortunately, Ice is still all too apt a nickname for his shooting…
A few notes. Mobley – Needs to work on his handles and his footwork I’m not saying that it’s bad for a big man, but there’s lots of room for improvement. There are times when a defender cuts him on certain angles he tends to give up the dribble/drive and messes up the play. No rush but that would be a key for the team to trust him more isolation plays. Levert – Did underrated things in overtime. Defended really good and picked up Beal full court from the inbounds at times. There are 2 shots that he missed that… Read more »
great stuff RJ!
Im always frustrated when coaches use the same 5 in OT that just played out the end of the 4th. You can make subs in OT! At least he got Wade out there eventually.
LMFAO amen TOJ!