Live Thread: Timberwolves @ Cavs (or, Get it Together, Kenny)
2026-01-10Good afternoon CtB!
The Cavs welcome the Minnesota Timberwolves to the banks of the Cuyahoga River to complete the home and home measuring stick games against one of the West’s elite. The Cavs suffered a third quarter blowout Thursday night at the hands of these Wolves in a game full of weirdness for the good guys. Kenny Atkinson decided to start a lineup that had played exactly zero minutes the entire season together, and a backcourt that has shared a whopping 14 minutes total on the season. Then he decided to punish the starters by playing them all of the fourth quarter, only to have them sputter out the perfunctory loss. Suffice it to say it did not work at all and is yet another black mark on Coach Atkinson’s decision making this season full of questionable decisions that call into question what his plan actually is. 
As one can easily tell from this graphic (courtesy of NBA.com), these are the Cavs’ 10 most used 5-man lineups on the season, of which Kenny Atkinson has given the most amount of minutes to the two worst-performing lineups so far this season. The fact that there are so many far more successful lineups receiving insufficient minutes is a damning indictment on his coaching this year. The Cavs are at their best when they lean into the defensive end and play bigger with some combination of Dean Wade, Sam Merrill, Lonzo Ball, DeAndre Hunter, NaeQwan Tomlin, or Jaylon Tyson. Will Atkinson get the memo? Stay tuned…
Also, as it was covered in a previous post, all of the Cavs’ problems would be solved if Darius Garland would simply stop being one of the worst starters in the NBA. The Cavs are sub .500 in games he’s started this season and are performing as a lottery team every time he touches the floor. He is singlehandedly holding the team back with his lack of defense and offensive firepower. Will Kenny Atkinson be a coach and hold him accountable? If the past is any indication, I wouldn’t hold my breath…
Tip off is scheduled for 1:00PM Eastern time and will be broadcasted nationally on Amazon Prime (#SilverForPrison), Go Cavs!
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/stone-bridge-connecting-to-city-166983179-592edd295f9b58595083f6df.jpg "Live Thread: Cavs @ Timberwolves")
On Court Nets:
Core 4: DM +7.2, EM +5.5, JA +5.8, DG -3.1
Main Bench: Merrill +6.2, CPJ +4.2, Wade +3.0, Tyson +2.1, Ball +0.7, Hunter -1.5.
Fringe bench: Tomlin +8.3, LNJ -5.1, Bryant -6.3, Proctor -7.9, Travers -12.7.
I tend to like ON COURT #s better than net when evaluating players. Though DGs toe played a part in his struggles early.
remind me what an “on court net” is
Its the thing in front of the basket they try to put the ball through.
Cavs Net rating:
Core 4: DM +12.9, Mobes +7.2, JA +5.4, DG -9.1
Main Bench: Merrill +5.4, CPJ +2.5, Wade +0.9, Tyson -0.7, Ball -2.6, Hunter -7.9.
Fringe bench: Tomlin +7.5, LNJ -8.6, Bryant -10.2, Proctor -12.2, Travers -16.0.
🙏MR STEAL ALWAYS ENJOY/ APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHTFUL INPUT 👍
That 21-22 team was so starved for offensive creation we sent Indy a FRP for LeVert.
Against teams like the Hawks and Raptors (and last years Pacers) that alternative Lauri-Mobley-Allen squad wouldn’t be able to get the ball over halfcourt
HAVE HAD TOO MANY…………” MORE BEER s 🍺 PLEASE “ —— JUST TOTAL SPECULATION FOR CONVERSATION —— TOTALLY LOVE ME SOME SPIDA ————- WHEN CAVS TRADED FOR SPIDA- NBA WAS STILL ENHANCED WITH “! DUBS SMALL BALL “ — NBA IS A COPY CAT LEAGUE——- NBA HAS NOW PROGRESSED TO / RETURNED TO “ SIZE MATTERS “ —-WITH LAURI WE HAD WHAT NBA IS NOW TRENDING TOO —— WE COULD HAVE “ UNLOADED SEXTON FOR SOME VALUE AND RETAINED SOME VALUABLE DRAFT PICKS —- ALWAYS WONDER HOW THAT “ BIG 3 —MOBES / JA/ LAURI —( DRAFT PICKS )! WOULD… Read more »
Your best shot creators would be Vert and DG. Markannen played 47, 55 and 66 games in Utah. And he makes a lot more than DG.
The picks would be in the 20s.
They’d be big but not particularly good on offense…
Lot of your other points are truish, but those games played numbers for Lauri are for made up tanking injuries.
we (CtB) briefly debated this before and after the trade. I was against it before, 50/50 at the time, and strongly in favor afterwards. Mitchell was just coming into his prime years. Now he is at least into his mid prime years.
HAS JEROME EVEN PLAYED THIS YEAR—— SAM WAS THE BETTER SIGNING
Jerome got hurt.
As is tradition.
way better. Sam is as much better all around player. he might be able to match Ty as a nonstop chucker if he wanted to
GREAT STUFF JASON 👍🙏👍🙏
Just to underscore the small sample size thing, and, to a lesser extent, the folly in relying too much on lineup data with small sample sizes, lets revisit that Core4 + Merrill lineup, shall we?
Recall, prior to last night’s game?
Core4 + Merrill: 18 min, -15.4. Terrible, right?
Now? 32 min, +3.7
That lineup got almost as many minutes together in one game (14 min) than it had the entire season previously (18 min).
There is just too much statistical noise at small sample sizes. One hot (or cold) quarter can radically change the numbers. Performance from earlier seasons is still relevant.
Further, with all the injuries and “rest” going on, KA has rarely had his first choice options out there.
There has been a lot of experimentation out of necessity. And trying to integrate new guys into the rotation while it is unsettled (Ball, Tyson, Nance). It has not been pretty at times.
Effort & intensity on D has been poor. Especially in transition. O has been clunky at times.
But Core4 + 1 are all positive, now:
Hunter: 49 min, +23.2
Merrill: 32 min, +3.7
Tyson: 21 min, +38.9
Wade: 17 min, +20.0
The non-Core4 minutes is what needs sorted. Getting Strus back will help, Wade, too. DG playing better is a must to save wear on Spida and reliance on other guys who are still not ready to carry the O (Mobley), are complementary pieces (Hunter, Merrill), still developing (Porter, Tyson), or just not playing well (Ball).
One has to squint, but there is some reason for optimism.
I thought this 13 game stretch might be brutal. They are 5-4 after 9 games. Underwhelming Ws vs Indy and Denver. And Houston hammered us as did Minny away. But we have good wins v Minny last night + against SA & PHX. If we could have pulled out the Knicks or Pistons games (or both), things would be looking much better. Utah, Phillyx2, OKC to close out the stretch.
AGREE WITH MR STEAL—- NO REST —- GO FOR THE “ W”
No one appears to be resting: Strus and Wade out.
Some lineup data reasons for optimism:, n/i tonights game.
Core 4 + Hunter: 49 min, +23.2
Core 4 + Tyson: 21 min, +38.9
Core 4 + Wade: 17 min, +20.0
Core 4 + Merrill: 18 min, -15.4
Lineup data supports Chris’ proposition we play better bigger. Though with DGs injury, the sample size is pretty small, still.
But the larger point is that the Core4 +1 is still pretty effective (3 of 4). Sam’s might have improved tonight.
And my #2 choice to start (Merrill) is by farcthe worst of the bunch.
KA needs to figure out the other rotations. We have been getting killed in the 2nd.
Kenny has been featuring Allen in second quarters and in the beginning of fourths. This makes a ton of sense bc Allen and any competent guard is usually pretty good offense and bc we are undefeated when Allen gets 10 FGAs.
Get a grip, Chris, Garland isn’t getting benched. Wade is hurt. And Hunter has been awful lately. Tyson, too. Before today.
I still like Tyson off the bench and Merrill starting. At leastcwith Wade out. Sam’s gravity helps the others. And the bench needs guys who can do damage with the ball in their hands.
The die is cast with respect to the Core 4. We gotta make it work. After the season, then maybe we recalibrate. DG is, for sure, the guy I’d trade if I was gonna break it up. But I would not do it now.
If you aren’t getting a good player back why bother?
money?
a cheaper 45 win team <<<< a 50-64 win team in the apron
Chris tends to exaggerate in the heat of the moment.
Hopefully we don’t do a rest game for anyone against Utah. Need to stack wins and catch rhythm win consistent lineups.
Indy was too close for comfort.
JUST GOT HOME FROM OUR GAMES —-35-1 —- GOOD TO SEE THE BOXSCORE —- 5/ 20 PT SCORERS —————- 1 REAL BAD NEWS —— WE LOST OUR ALL LEAGUE/ DISTRICT PT GD —— PROBABLY OUT FOR THE SEASON 🤬🤬🤬🤬——- AM TOTALLY BUMMED FOR HIM/ OUR TEAM—- “ MORE FRIGGIN BEER 🍺 PLEASE “!
I don’t want to go straight to matchups but in thinking about transition defense the only team in the top 6 who even attempts to run is Toronto.
I’m not saying it’s not a problem but given the right draw it may never be a meaningful problem.
22/6 on only 13 shots with no turnovers, elite operating the PnR against the best (non-Mobley) defender in basketball. And a +21 as Cavs tie the record for most 20-point scorers in a game by hanging 146 on the hottest team in basketball.
All-star form AGAIN. savor the flavor
preethi♥️ on X: “i wish i could frame a video https://t.co/P8TEoMweun” / X
glorious
Great game
Lol. Tomlin with terrible luck there.
STAN THE MAN CALLING OUT THE TRANSITION DEFENSE, ONE OF THE WORST IN THE NBA
JAYLON TYSON UNCONSCIOUS
Naz is ridiculous
WHAT A PASS TYSON TO TOMLIN
FROHIO!
great name!
ALLEN BLOCK ALLEN AND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ridiculous screen Allen
Tyson clobbered.
KEEP SHOOTING GARLAND THEYRE NOT GUARDING YOU AT ALL ON THE PERIMETER
HOLY SHIT TYSON WHAT A FINISH
FOURTH QUARTER TOMLIN MINUTES ABOUT DAMN TIME KENNY
YEAH LETS TRADE MOBLEY AND MITCHELL…. IDIOTS
Great move Mitchell to get to the line.
Tyson you gotta just take a foul there and not let him get and1
SPIDA MVP
Fire
MOBLEY DEFENSE FINALLY
WHAT A PASS CPJ
DONOVAN MITCHELL OUTPLAYING ANT EDWARDS #SPIDAMVP
Big shot Spida.
Great play by CPJ
Yeah that was a terrible timeout.
I don’t like this timeout. Don’t let Minny rest.
CAVS FINALLY PLAYING SOME DEFENSE
Cavs gotta be smarter around the basket.
Holy Mobley
HOLY SHIT MOBLEY GOING FULL HAKEEM OLAJUWON!!!!!! RAGE TIMEOUT MINNY!!!
That was ridiculous.
I like that!
Randle is killing them
GIVEN UP 12 THREES AND THEYRE SHOOTING 60% MOBLEY ZERO REBOUNDS ZERO BLOCKS ZERO STEALS, JARRETT ALLEN ZERO BLOCKS ZERO STEALS GARLAND ZERO STEALS
OMG. Kenny finally took out Garland on D in an obvious situation.
ATKINSON SUBBED OUT GARLAND ON DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!! HALLELUJAH!!!!!!
Jinx
LMFAOOOOO Savor it, it’s the only good defense we’ll see tonight!
Stop settling for three in the bonus
Minny sets really great screens. In that they’re all barely legal.
Honestly to be within four with as many ridiculous bailout shots as Minny has hit is nice
PLAY SOME DEFENSE GARLAND AND MITCHELL !!!!!!! YOU BOTH LET DIVINCENZO WALTZ RIGHT INTO THE LANE
Lol. I hope Simmo enjoying the jingles minutes
Darius cooking would help
and not getting beasted on defense by Bones Hyland
One can always dream.
Tomlin battling.
Tomlin, Tyson, Merrill actually playing defense
TYSON AND MERRILL ONLY GUYS WHO ARE SHOWING UP THIS AFTERNOON
Wolves toying with us. Garland unplayable against this height, Mobley sleepwalking as usual. No physicality or urgency. Last year was our window and it has slammed shut in our faces
NO THOMAS BRYANT, NO LONZO BALL, NO CHANCE TO PLAY ANY GOOD DEFENSE
Kenny is cooked
Yup, has zero respect for defense
7-12 FROM THREE 60% FROM THE FLOOR
Minnesota absolutely scorching.
IS SOMEBODY GONNA ACTUALLY GUARD DIVINCENZO?????????
HERE WE GO TOMLIN IN HUNTER AT THE THREE LETS GOO
Nice tip assist CPJ!!!
Nice read Hunter, Tyson for three!!
Cavs playing small still continues to bleed points on defense, Tomlin nowhere to be seen
Garland out, lets make a run… rage timeout Finchy
Same problem as last game, zero defense anywhere
Garland getting exploited 3 times on defense so far, gave up the backdoor, gave up a 3 to DiVincenzo, ole defense on the PnR on DiVincenzo. Rage timeout KA
Mitchell on a tear.
This is great, Chris
Yes sir thank you!!