1 through 5: Coaching Critique
2013-04-12Five Cavs questions for the writers – all in one place.
Question 1: How would you grade Byron Scott and the coaching staff on in-game execution?
Colin: No snark: are they trying to lose games? I want to know. Surely, the roster was constructed to fail. When Varejao was healthy, the Cavs actually had a nice starting lineup, but then the bench would come in and relinquish whatever advantage the starters had accrued. I think this was by design: let the front end of the roster jell; let the back end of the roster kill the team’s chance to win. But even after the bench-solving Grizz trade (which, we’ll find out this offseason based on who the Cavs keep, may have been almost completely about a mid-first round draft pick), Scott has been, if not trying to lose, vomiting all over himself with wacky substitution patterns that undermine the team’s momentum or by keeping good players off the floor for curiously long stretches. As a tank job, it’s been masterful, but if Byron Scott actually thinks his substitutions are helping the team win, he’s dead wrong and should be fired. I have a feeling I’m going to be doing a lot of hemming and hawing over the course of these questions because I think evaluating coaching is almost impossible–even when you’re right about a coach being good/bad, you can still be totally wrong about what makes them good/bad–but I know one thing just from watching this team from an outsider’s perspective: the way it rotates its players in and out of games is stupid. Anyway, I give the coaching staff 8.2 basketballs out of 17.
Mallory: C-. Byron’s rotations have been pretty decent since the trade, so there’s a nice plus there. He did a nice job of creating a second unit that plays well together, and generally knows when to sub guys in and out. Although it should be noted that he often leaves stars sitting too long and is known to put a weird lineup out there once and a while. I give Byron a deservedly hard time for his end of game coaching. He’s easily one of the worst end-of-game coaches in the NBA. Out of timeouts the players never have a set play, and often fall apart or turn the ball over. That’s just not acceptable. Timeouts are generally used, at the end of a game, specifically for making sure everyone knows their role for the next possession. Instead, what unfolds is usually a mess. In addition, the Cavs are horrible at going for two-for-ones, another fault that should be largely placed on the shoulders of their leader, Byron. Finally, when all falls apart, BS is usually seen detached instead of engaging his players – maybe he’s more engaged after games, but when a problem presents itself repeatedly, it’s the coach’s job to make sure his players IMMEDIATELY know what they did wrong, particularly when it’s clear the status quo isn’t working. For a perfect example, see the end of Wed’s Pistons game.
Nate: The letter grade would be D+. That’s a barely passing grade, and only in a non-major subject. As has been noted, the defense is awful at playing the pick and roll. Offensively, they’ve done a good job of incorporating different sets and getting into them, but despite all that, until late in the game, the Cavs play below average. According to teamrankings.com, they are 18th in 1st quarter point differential, 16th in 2nd, 27th in 3rd, and dead last in the 4th quarter, at -1.7 points per game. This is all despite (or perhaps because of) having one of the best 4th quarter scorers in the league, Kyrie Irving. Kyrie has 141 points in 33 games this year in the last 5 minutes with the score +/- 5, according to stats.nba.com. But overall, the Cavs are -13 in those situations. Winning close games comes down to execution. The Cavs have one late game offensive play: guard isolation. That play happens whether it’s Dion, Kyrie, Miles, Livingston, or Ellington handling the ball. It looks slightly different depending on who’s running it: Miles and Ellington pull up, Kyrie and Dion can get to the rack and draw fouls or pull up, and Livingston turns it into a backdown. They routinely lose to good teams because those teams know it’s coming and trap it. None of those players are great at passing quickly out of high double teams, with a possible exception of Livingston who’s big enough to see over them. The Cavs are -30 in the last two minutes of close games, and -40 in the last five minutes. They are also terrible in late game defensive situations. The person guarding the in-bounds pass in last second situations is routinely worthless.
Kevin: I grade him as: questionable. This topic is fairly well exhausted; rotations, use of timeouts, lack of an apparent offensive or defensive system…these are complaints filed throughout the season. Approaching the completion of a third season, the Cavs are 64 and 162. I understand reasons for this: youth, injuries, low payroll / lack of talent. But at what point is it unacceptable for the coach to turn lemons into lemon wedges? In December, I wrote about Reasons and Excuses, and the slippery slope between them; as it relates to Byron Scott, Cavs fans are definitely teetering at the precipice between the two.
Tom: The Cavaliers execution is poor at the defensive end, and rudimentary at the offensive end. They don’t seem to make in-game adjustments when they start getting worked. All season long they have had trouble with in-bounds plays, situational awareness, and finishing quarters/games. The offensive schemes seems to be individual creativity from the starters, and 2-man games when Walton and Livingston check in. I’m not a paid scout, but I’d award the coaches a D here.
Question 2: How would you grade them on preparedness/scouting?
Colin: I’m probably going off-message here: how does this team still neglect wide open perimeter shooters? I guess you can file this under the heading of “preparedness,” but it’s mostly just a thing that drives my Thunderbird habit. I get that creating turnovers is a primary goal of Byron Scott’s defensive approach, but you can’t double-team and trap other NBA teams like you’re the UNC Tar Heels facing the Virgin Islands A&M Sun Dollops. If you run two great athletes at college kids, most of them will do something dumb; if you run two great athletes at NBA players, most of them will hit the open man and call you dumb beneath their breath. Yet, for whatever reason, Scott insists that this team collapse on driving guards and frantically overhelp on big men underneath, which results in a bunch of open jumpers for the other team’s shooters while Irving or Gee defeatedly close out on them a second-and-a-half too late. Don’t get me wrong: this team is terrible at stopping opponents because it’s composed chiefly of young guys (Irving, Waiters) and bad defenders (Miles, Walton), but the scheme doesn’t help. What were we evaluating? Mark it down: forty-five seconds of your life you’d like to get back out of a life composed chiefly of seconds you’d like to get back.
Mallory: C+. Generally speaking, the Cavs rarely come out completely flat and rarely fall crazy behind early in games (the Brooklyn game withstanding). That being said, the lack of any real defense certainly falls on the coach and his inability to create a defensive scheme that works for given situations.
Nate: D-. The guards routinely don’t know which players to go over the pick on and which players to go under. They also don’t seem to know who to cover and who to leave out at the line. The Cavs are very bad at dealing with stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson, as the Cavs bigs are reluctant to step out. Cavs guards also routinely close out on the wrong side, and don’t know who to send to the right side and who to send to the left, which is directly out of the scouting report. Offensively, they’re better, and tend to know who they can exploit in isolation or in the post, but Kyrie seems routinely blindsided when teams trap him late (which good teams do), a measure of preparedness.
Kevin: How about a grade of: fair. The team starts well often enough; early in the season, the starters looked great, now the team thrives at building big leads. In-game adjustments, exhibited through the frequent third quarter malaise and the blown leads seem to be the bigger issue.
Tom: If I noticed patterns I’d offer a better critique. I’m not sure if lack of variety counts as lack of preparation but the Cavs don’t seem to mix it up too much at the defensive end. Bang-a-Drummond and the zone defense which were both implemented in the last week are the first signs I’ve seen of changing it up based on the scouting report. C-
Question 3: How would you grade them on player development?
Colin: “Player development” entails a lot, and it’s hard to say where Thompson and Waiters will end up–the job is far from complete, is what I mean–but they’ve both shown remarkable progress over their brief Cavalier tenures. TT’s got a nascent offensive game and is developing into a nice post defender, and Dion takes a lot fewer 18-foot stepbacks than he did a few months ago, and now finishes around the rim with a craftiness beyond his years. The only mark against the staff is that Irving is a marginally better defender than when he came in the league, which is to say he’s cheese clothish. Tyler Zeller sort of is what he is. I don’t know what they can do with him other than work on his 15-footer and encourage him to eat a protein-rich diet. 27 adorable baby elephants for Byron and his associates.
Mallory: B+. As Tom and I discussed on yesterday’s podcast the impact the head coach has on player development is questionable. Is Byron working on Tristan’s FT shooting with him every day? Is he the one who taught Dion how to attack the rim? What about Kyrie’s D? Is he the one teaching him how to be a lock-down defender? (That last one was a joke) I’d wager that the assistant coaches and nature ultimately have more to do with development than Byron. But there’s no denying there’s been development. How much is nature, how much is Byron, and how much is the rest of the staff, though, is the big question – one that is ultimately unanswerable for anyone not in the locker room.
Nate: B-. The Cavs have done a good job of bringing players along. TT, Zeller, Miles, Gee, and Walton are all much better than they were, at least offensively, at season’s beginning. TT, especially, keeps growing on offense. Kyrie Irving has developed some bad habits, though. He routinely just doesn’t even try on defense, and though his points and steals are up, his assists, and rebounds are down, though so are his turnovers. But they haven’t turned individual improvement into wins.
Kevin: Regarding the would-be stars: solid. Regarding would-be role players: poor. Thompson took huge steps this year; over a 33-game stretch, Waiters average 20 ppg36 with league-average true shooting; Zeller has at a minimum greatly improved his scoring efficiency. Regarding the bench auditioners though, did you know that Jon Leuer’s PER is up to 18 in Memphis? The other youngsters with a chance to potentially grow over the last three years are either posting career-low PER’s, never improved from their rookie season, or are out of the league (Gee, Casspi, Samuels, Eyenga, etc). Certainly, it is more important that the franchise “get it right” with the high draft picks, so no need to complain too much.
Tom: Irving was not deemed a sure-thing out of college and Thompson and Waiters were both considered reaches at #4. There was a point early this season when many analysts wondered aloud whether the Cavs had missed on Thompson and Waiters. People don’t wonder that anymore. I’m not going to withhold credit from Byron Scott and the coaching staff for noticeable improvements those two guys have made. I also think C.J. Miles and Alonzo Gee have been put in situations to succeed and have made the most of their talent under Byron Scott. The big misses are Hickson and Casspi, but you can’t win em all. A-.
Question 4: Go back in time to July 2012 – keep everything identical except coaching: who would you choose and how many more wins would the Cavs have with your dream coaching scenario?
Colin: That we’re using our time machine to go back to July of 2012 so we can restaff the head coaching position of a team that’s probably still going to be pretty bad anyway and not, like, finessing Hitler’s art school application or telling Martin Luther King to maybe avoid balconies for a while seems irresponsible. Journalist-God Brian Windhorst mentioned this a couple weeks ago, but it’s worth pointing out: there aren’t a lot of coaching free agents more impressive than Scott. I have an affinity for Nate McMillan, but that’s really just because I like defense-first coaches and still have a lingering crush on those healthy Brandon Roy era Blazers teams. It’s not like Nate McMillan has ever been a miracle worker. We’d all like to play with the fabric of reality and have Gregg Popovich coaching our favorite team, but the reality is you’re always either a.) picking someone off the scrap heap, or b.) hoping an assistant coach who’s never been fully in charge a team before can prove himself. Not that those sorts of things never work out. Rick Carlisle has been on the scrap heap multiple times during his career, and the Bulls are flying relatively high without Derrick Rose because Tom Thibodeau, it turns out, is more than a terrific assistant. But I can’t argue that if the Cavs rolled with my boy McMillan they’d be three games out of eighth place in the East. Can I still keep giving out stupid scores? 89 flapjacks out of 89 flapjacks. Flawless flapjack achievement unlocked.
Mallory: This is a hard question because it really takes too many issues into consideration. Does another coach install a defense, or, as Tom mentioned on yesterday’s podcast, is D a more natural talent than we’re all willing to admit? Would another coach have realized the freakishly awesome passing skills of Luke Walton pair brilliantly with Livingston? Would another coach get through Kyrie’s thick skull that you ALWAYS go 2-for-1 when you have the chance? Would another coach call a timeout at the right moment to prevent hemorrhaging leads? Would a head coach bring me ice cream after Cavs losses? Byron isn’t a very good NBA coach, at least not in ways that we as viewers can pinpoint. He’s quiet, pensive, and rarely gets in his player’s faces. The defense is horrible and the offense often looks disjointed, particularly when it matters most. He’s bad at calling timeouts and bad at making in game adjustments. I do think another coach might tread those waters more carefully, but who knows. I wouldn’t want a big name coach, at this point. The obviously choice would be Brian Shaw, who I think would be a good guy to give his first shot as a head coach. Maybe he’d manage things correctly, and if so, maybe a few of those coin-flip games fall heads up instead of tails. I’d predict an extra 5-7 wins. Not much, but certainly an improvement, and maybe enough to create some moral victories in an otherwise dour season.
Nate: I probably wouldn’t change it. I mean as much as I love Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich, they would have gotten the Cavs to pointless mediocrity. Would I like to have had someone who could have taught the team to play defense and to bring the effort every night? Yes. Taught the team what to do in close game situations? Yes. They might’ve edged out Milwaukee for the last playoff spot and taught some intensity, but that’s if they pushed every button perfectly. Perhaps the point of Byron Scott is to show Kyrie Irving how the other half lives. Maybe Kyrie needs to learn to appreciate a coach who makes good offense/defense substitutions or won’t play Luke Walton against Al Horford, or won’t pettily bury a 6’9″ small forward who was leading the NBA in three point percentage. Byron ran his course. It’s time to bring someone else in. I don’t think the timing would have been right in July 2012. Byron brought a modicum of dignity and calmness, though some might call it ambivalence, to the post LeBrocalypse. Now the Cavs need someone between stoic Byron and losing-his-voice insane Stan Van Gundy to helm the ship for the next few years. Scratch that. Thibs would’ve made Kyrie play defense. I wish we could have had him.
Kevin: My first preference is Kevin Hetrick; it is a definite pay raise for me. Unfortunately, Cleveland goes 14 – 68 in that scenario. Second…Phil Jackson. The Zen Master melds a second-string front court of Samardo Samuels and Luke Harangody into a 39 win team. Finally, Luke Walton…player-coach. In this scenario, the Cavs finish 73 and 9.
Tom: Gregg Popovich is my head coach and teaches offense. Mike Brown is my assistant and he focuses on defense. Mark Price is my shooting coach. Stan Van Gundy is in charge of working with my big men and giving half-time interviews so Pop won’t be bothered. Doc Rivers and Phil Jackson are brought in as consultants when there’s in-fighting or someone needs motivated. And with this team? Add 12 wins. (9th best in the East) The roster has been in disarray since Byron got here. As much as I love Gregg Popovich, he’s had a healthy Tim Duncan for 16 of his 17 seasons as HC. Who has Byron had since he showed up in Cleveland? Also, the off-season additions of John Kuester and Mo Williams transformed the Cavs from the 20th best offense in the league to the 4th best. That’s a huge improvement from what seemed like minor changes. Perhaps the addition of a rim-protector + a healthy Varejao will allow Byron Scott to graft his DNA (whatever it is) onto this team.
Question 5: What expectations or ultimatums do you have for the Cavs coaching staff next season?
Colin: I expect the coaching staff to look different, if not at the absolute top, then in terms of the other dudes in suits sitting next to Byron Scott. They have to get a defensive coordinator of some sort. If Scott’s back with the same staff, we might be in for a long season. It’s tough to lay out other expectations when I’m unsure what the team is going to look like, so I’ll make a meek, blandly general statement: the team needs to stay motivated, and that burden falls on the coaches. I’m sure the inertia of failure and the ever-mounting injuries this year made that task near-impossible, but if we’re to surmise the Cavs will actually make an earnest run at the playoffs next season, the coaches are going to have to keep everyone’s heads on straight, so as to avoid eight-game losing streaks and more than a couple bafflingly uninterested games against bad teams. If the staff can act as a sort of consistency-maintaining mechanism, I’ll rate them three dilapidated burlesque theaters out of five dilapidated burlesque theaters.
Mallory: Next year is it. 40-42 wins is the minimum, meaning a 15 game swing is a MUST. That’ll be tough, especially if Noel ends up being the guy selected and the front office doesn’t make any major roster improvements. If Scott is still around, he absolutely must install a defense. A 20th or better defense is essential to improving the record. In addition, better in game coaching would be nice – certainly cooling down the opposing team when they get hot with a well-timed TO, as well as better end of game clock management. Ultimately, though, the key is just utilizing what’s on the roster to its absolute peak. That’s what the best coaches in the NBA do on a nightly basis, and it’s something that Byron has been very mixed at. If he’s around, he’s got to get better.
Nate: Develop toughness. Teach the team how to play in late game situations and close out quarters. Rise to above 20th in opponent FG% (as opposed to the current dead last). Teach a sane and consistent defensive philosophy. Give opponents some wrinkles. Teach Dion to play off the ball. Develop a leadership hierarchy among the players on this team (don’t just hand it to Kyrie). Most importantly? Develop a culture of respect, winning, and accountability that will make free agents want to play in Cleveland. Oh, and have a fun haircut.
Kevin: If Scott is back, it would be with a short leash. Earlier this season, I took a look at Scott’s career. The two peaks were guided by hall-of-fame point guards and both situations rapidly unraveled as his teams epically quit on him. If the team starts 3 and 6 – move on and try some young, fresh, up-and-coming basketball mind. Brian Shaw from the Pacers, perhaps? He’s widely regarded as a key-schemer in Indy’s top-notch D.
Tom: No ultimatums from me, although I suspect Dan Gilbert wants some significant improvements at the defensive end. My expectations are that the team learns a few different ways to defend pick and rolls. I’d like to see the bigs hedge and retreat, the guards to anticipate the screener, and the help defenders to know where to rotate. On offense I expect more decisiveness and synergy from the core players, and the ball to swing from side to side. I want the team to start looking more than the sum of their parts. That’s on the coaches.
I think the Cavs MUST make the playoffs next year if they want to keep Kyrie around. His demeanor has already begun to change. That may mean overpaying for a veteran that is not in your long range plans. I firmly believe that if it doesn’t get fun for Kyrie fast – he’ll go elsewhere. And I would, too. Plus – I know I’ll get shot down for this but I’m going to say it – I think that Kyrie is a top 5 NBA talent . . . but only an above average point guard. Even though he and… Read more »
I’d be shocked of Gasol was amnestied. At worst, he’s cap filler till 2014. I think Atlanta would be a perfect spot for him.
If a top level candidate becomes available . . . and wants to come to Cleveland – you grab him. A couple of comments about Scott that I agree with – “Kevin wrote: “Regarding the bench auditioners though, did you know that Jon Leuer’s PER is up to 18 in Memphis? The other youngsters with a chance to potentially grow over the last three years are either posting career-low PER’s, never improved from their rookie season, or are out of the league (Gee, Casspi, Samuels, Eyenga, etc). ” This has also annoyed me. Scott plays favorites, and puts players in… Read more »
I don’t think the Cavs are likely to be improved much, if at all via a coaching change, unless they miraculously find the next great coach on somebody’s bench. I just don’t see a significant upgrade, who would want to come to Cleveland. I also worry that the team has been partially built to Scott’s wants and that a new coach will want player changes. In addition, a new coach might have personality conflicts with players, which is something that is a minor issue if any right now. I’m thinking that expecting more out of the Cavs right now is… Read more »
I think the time has come for Byron Scott. I think he gets some undeserved credit for some of the improved players. Tristan Thompson as well as Tyler Zeller have had fast track advancement plainly from the game experience they have. They have played minutes that they would not have got in most other teams. I don’t see that there are plays for them in place. They just get more confidence as time goes by. I can’t understand why Scott prefers to play Zeller into foul trouble and keeps Speights on the bench, just to give you an example of… Read more »
I think the time has come for Byron Scott. I think he gets some undeserved credit for some of the improved players. Tristan Thompson as well as Tyler Zeller have had fast track advancement plainly from the game experience they have. They have played minutes that they would not have got in most other teams. I don’t see that there are plays for them in place. They just get more confidence as time goes by. I can’t understand why Scott prefers to play Zeller into foul trouble and keeps Speights on the bench, just to give you an example of… Read more »
Lakers and Jazz both won tonight. Lakers still up one in the loss column.
A couple fun stats about our in-game execution: The Cavs rank dead last in the league shooting the corner 3. That’s one of the most efficient shots in basketball, and the Cavs have several good shooters, so that’s probably something we should look to utilize a little better. http://stats.nba.com/leagueTeamShots.html?DistanceRange=By%20Zone&sortField=FG_PCTZone4&sortOrder=DES The Cavs rank second to last (edging out the Bobcats) in shooting in the restricted area. That’s the other most efficient shot in basketball, and the Cavs have several good finishers, so it’s distressing that our offense doesn’t generate more open looks at the rim. http://stats.nba.com/leagueTeamShots.html?DistanceRange=By%20Zone&sortField=FG_PCTZone1&sortOrder=DES As far as player development,… Read more »
The mighty Herculoids have 2 points in the first half on 1/12 shooting. This one isn’t on the starters.
Pau only has one year left on his deal. it wouldn’t clog up the 2014 cap at all. The Cavs actually have nothing on their books for 2014 other than options. They could realistically sign Lebron and Pau to contracts that offseason. Pau’s next contract will probably around half of his current rate. If Grant picks up Kyrie, Thompson, Waiters and Zeller’s options they are at $17.8 million if they don’t pick up Andy, Gee or Kevin Jones’ team options. Throw in this years draft picks and they’ll probably be around $23 million. $37 million would be more than enough… Read more »
“There would be nothing holding Grant back from being the highest bidder.”
The only thing I could imagine would be keeping cap space for LeBron. As long as that possibility is out there, the Cavs will probably not jeopardize it.
“but trading them their own draft pick for Gasol would be pretty awesome as well.”
priceless.
Tom, In conclusion, my preference is that the Cavs part ways with Byron. I won’t be writing scathing articles if they don’t, but would think there should be a short leash next season. The team does need to maintain a reasonable semblance of bench talent. Mallory referred to a discussion between him and Nate about Brian Shaw as the most appealing coaching candidate this off-season. What is the most appealing coaching destination in summer 2013? If Cleveland offered him a job, with a 21-year-old All-Star, three other recent top-five picks, Varejao, let’s say four other suitable bench players, tons of… Read more »
If he’s amnestied he goes to the highest bidder and if the bids are even he goes to the team with the worse record. The Magic, Bobcats, and Suns are the only teams in the league who could break a tie with Cleveland. There would be nothing holding Grant back from being the highest bidder. He could take on his entire contract. A trade is possible, but I don’t think the Lakers are going to get blow away with offers. Ryan Anderson is the pipe dream. Coon’s brain is rotted on disco sugar if he thinks the Hornets would trade… Read more »
“The Mavs could be a contender for Pau theoretically but is putting a 33 year old Pau next to 35 Dirk for $33 million or more really what they are going for?” Certainly not their first choice. But the odds of Dallas landing Howard are pretty slim. I don’t believe Cuban wants to let Dirks last couple of seasons be spent fighting for the 8th seed. And, as you said, both contracts would expire. I believe they let Chandler walk with the thought of keeping cap space open for Deron and Howard. Since that didn’t pan out, I could see… Read more »
Larry Coon answered my question in his chat of Pau being amnestied and the Cavs submitting the winning bid. I still think Coon is overrating Pau’s trade value at $19 million after the last two seasons he’s put in. There aren’t a lot of teams who can/will give up young assets and a large trade exemption to the Lakers for Pau. Larry Coon I wrote an entire blog post about the prospect of Gasol being amnestied, which you can read here: http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=195. In short, amnesty is something you use as a last resort — when there’s no good trade prospects… Read more »
The Mavs could be a contender for Pau theoretically but is putting a 33 year old Pau next to 35 Dirk for $33 million or more really what they are going for? Both contracts would expire in 2014, but that combo would still have trouble making noise in the West. They let Chandler walk to get younger in the long run not older. I’ve just assumed they will be more interested in signing a younger player like Brandon Jennings. It’s possible. If he’s amnestied Pau would go to the highest bidder. If two bids are equal then he goes to… Read more »
I’d also like to stress, for the one billionth time, that I also believe the Cavs have a bright future and I’m fairly happy with what’s going on. But ignoring the fact that the bench was wildly out-performing expectations and was the major contributing reason for the sudden swing in victories is silly. Making the playoffs in 2014 will be harder than people seem to believe.
Lets also keep in mind that the Wizards have been SUBSTANTIALLY better as well. Suffice to say there will be competition.
Thank you Tom, for stressing this point. I, as well, have been preaching the gospel of the bench. If you look at that win streak, it was pretty clear that the bench way WAY out-doing itself. Remember how good Speights was for the first month? And how Walton was averaging some absurd assist number? I don’t think those are to be expected next year. The Cavs, for a while there, had a top 10, probably top 5 performing bench (based on that ESPN article about Walton’s usefulness) – that’s likely not to happen next season. Tom said this months ago,… Read more »
I certainly hope Livingston is back. I’m pretty sure after one of my recaps I advocated for the Cavs to just give him a reasonable 4 year contract – and then I talked about that at length in a podcast. It was pretty easy to recognize the difference Livingston made when he showed up. If he’s not back, that void needs to be filled somehow. If he and Walton aren’t back – what will the bench look like? I do not subscribe to this concept that bench guys are plug and play, in other words, all you need is a… Read more »
“The Cavs are a prime team to land Gasol. Atlanta and Houston could be challengers for Pau if he’s amnestied, but that’s it. ”
Wouldn’t the Mavericks also try to land him? They would have the cap space. I think Cuban is gets anxious to put players around Dirk.
The general consensus in LA is that they missed their window to trade Gasol. Most Lakers fans are still hung up on the Chris Paul deal. The truth is that Gasol has little trade value unless the Lakers are willing to take back some back contracts. Every dollar taken back in a trade would waste their tax savings from amnestying Pau. $60 million is a ton of money. The actual salary cap next year might not be $60 million. A dollar saved is a dollar earned. Take into account the inheritance divestment of the team and I really think Pau… Read more »
@ Cory Hughey
The Gasol idea is awesome. Would like to see it. I guess it depends on what Dwight does. Usually players don’t leave LA via free agency, but he’s not the typical NBA player.
1) D+ This is where I worried most about Scott. They have looked terrible in the 3rd quarter all season. Rotations have been curious at times also. 2) C+ During their good stretch of 2013, they were prepared for nearly every opponent and played well. Once KI and DW got hurt the wheels came off. I saw the Miami game as an emotional H bomb for the team. 3) B+ The pups are growing into their paws and learning new tricks everyday. Irving was largely NBA ready from the rip. He should get better each season, but it won’t be… Read more »
Cory Hughey said: “The amnesty cut I’m all in on for the Cavs….Pau Gasol. He has little trade value at his current cap number and bringing in salary would cut into the Lakers tax savings. The Cavs would be able to pay his full salary if they had to so a straight up trade is possible but I don’t think it will be needed. If the Lakers amnesty Gasol it will save them around $60 million in luxury tax payments. It’s going to happen. I would throw down an $8 or $9 million claim on Gasol to be your starting… Read more »
Call me “John Hancock” as it relates to Cory’s idea. If Pau is amnestied and can be had for $8 – 10 million in 2013 – 2014…in a contract year, working with a fresh start…yeah, do that. I want to see an Andy and Pau front-court. Someone make this happen.
I’m excited about this…only one year on his contract…the current eight players, plus two draft picks, plus Ellington and Livingston probably runs around $45 million…i say bid $15 million for the one year. Why not, that puts the Cavs at the cap, still with flexibility in summer of 2014.
I want a Pau Gasol, Tristan, Varejao, Zeller big man rotation in 2013 – 2014!
Cory Hughey for president of the world!
Grover – EXACTLY. The front office might be “tanking” by not signing better talent, but NBA players are inherently competitive – that’s one of the big reasons why they’ve made it as far as they have. The idea that incremental improvements should be enough to keep giving him a shot is flawed – as a team, there has to be a spark on cohesiveness, and in three years we’ve never once seen that from this squad. Much of that blame has to fall on Scott. Shaw would be a fantastic addition. Nate and I were chatting about the potential of… Read more »
I think I’ve swung to @Nate Smith’s opinion. There are many fair points made about Scott not having much of a chance to succeed, and some of the individual player improvements should be at least partially attributable to him. But that has to be weighed against three consecutive years with virtually no descernable offensive or defensive identity, and little evidence of any concept of playing as a “team”. While I think it’s possible that there is some validity to tanking (or at the very least “not trying too hard all the time”), I just can’t accept that you build entire… Read more »
I always liked Scott as a player, and I thought he was a decent coach. I have soured on him considerably the last two years, though. The complete lack of defensive and offensive identity on the court is on him. Assuming he has at least 5 pieces going forward (either bench players or starters) in Irving Waiters, TT, Zeller and to a lesser extent Gee or Ellington, he could have worked harder to establish some mechanisms of team play. Or are his current players still too stupid/too young to learn plays? Another issue. If he is not tanking, I am… Read more »
The one thing you can’t question is Byron Scott’s player development ability… he has sired what may be considered the game’s top point guard for three consecutive eras, plus has coached productive years out of plenty other good players. Look what he’s done in Cleveland with the four best Cavs players — Kyrie, Dion, Tristan, and Varejao — would you not say each has individually outperformed the general public’s original expectations of them? It’s not like we can expect Scott to turn D-leaguers and journeymen into stars, but then he still goes and treats us to Luke Walton and the… Read more »
cwzagger,
Jason Kidd was back-to-back-to-back first-team all-NBA before he came to New Jersey. I’m not sure that Coach Scott can take alot of credit there.
I’ve frequently meant to investigate how unique Kyrie and Chris Paul’s collegiate performance is, to gauge the singularity of their talent…basically how much of their success can go to Scott versus how individually amazing are their talents? (Kyrie had a 131 offensive rating with 27 usage at Duke at 18-years old!) It is possible that the value of Scott to these two players’ careers is overrated.
I’m not trying to make this my thing but I want to once and for all address the claim that goes something like this: “the Cavs went 12-12 ball during that stretch after the trade where they had good health. Next year they’ll be a playoff team.” A few facts: The best 12-game stretch you can find is from January 26 to March 6. The Cavs actually went 12 and 9. On the surface, that seems very promising for a team in rebuild mode. During that stretch they even beat Oklahoma City. Waiters played his best ball and won rookie… Read more »
Tom,
You don’t think Livingston will be back? Cleveland had 16 wins in 33 game stretch; I won’t do a schedule analysis, but that is nearly half-a-season of 0.500 ball. If the youngsters develop, Varejao takes Speights minutes, and bench pieces are kept / added; next year portends to be allright.
One hour ago, ESPN again listed the Cavs as a lottery team with a bright 2013 – 2014 on the horizon. (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9163375/nba-lottery-teams-best-shape-2013-14-season)
Now, signing Gasol…
And for what it’s worth, even with a “bright 2013 – 2014”, I think that discussion of Scott’s future is warranted. If he’s not the guy, then he’s not the guy.
Kevin: your 33 game sample: 6 wins against non-lottery teams. 18 home games, 15 away games. Defensive Rating: 107.1 1st and 3rd quarter per48m differentials: -3 and -5 2nd and 4th quarter per48m differentials: +3 and +2 1st and 3rd quarter offensive efficiency: less than 101 2nd and 4th quarter offensive efficiency: greater than 111 I don’t think Livingston will be back. I don’t think Walton will be back. I don’t think Speights will be back. I don’t think the Walton+Livingston 2 man game will be back. It was clearly the highlight of the season. I noted at the time,… Read more »
Tom, I agree that in some regards, February 2013 won’t be characteristic, but “February 2013” was like 2.5 months. If only Ellington is brought back and no significant (even bench quality) free agent is added, and Varejao misses 60 games, and Kyrie misses 25, and the 22-and-under contingent doesn’t improve, and the new rookie offers nothing, and the coaching is questionable; then definitely the playoffs won’t be easy. I don’t think anyone disagree with that. If some combination of those things goes positively, then things will be better. Certainly, some level of bench talent needs retained / added, the youngsters… Read more »
you started it! [raises hand looking for Colin to scold Kevin]
Kevin – fine let’s dig into the details. Here’s what I expect to be better next season: -Health. Even as Varejao and Irving don’t have great track records, I find their injuries to be flukey and I suspect they will miss much less time. Those are the top-two players on the team. That could be a 15 game swing right there if they don’t miss any time. I’ll put it at 10. -Improvement: I think Waiters will be more consistently good and Thompson will get better defensively with a healthy Varejao. There’s a 10 win swing. -Additions: I’m not sure… Read more »
I just don’t believe that Scott has been given any semblance of an opportunity to succeed. Just look at the roster and age of the actual talented players we have. No coach in the world would have had more success, outside of maybe 1-2 more wins this season. I still believe that Kyrie’s relationship with Byron will lead to another season for Scott. Give him next year, and see if this team makes strides. If they win 40-45 games and make the playoffs, would you be quick to fire Scott at that time? Next season will be the first season… Read more »
I’ve been doing a lot of contemplating, and the time to change is at the season’s end. Waiting around to fire Byron next season just contributes to a lost year. There are a lot of really great coaching candidates out there, and the Cavs ought to be able to bring in one of them and assemble some top notch assistants. The Cavs are an intriguing situation: an all star point guard, two up and coming supporting players, a very solid starting center in Andy, a supportive owner who will spend, a top notch organization and facilities, lots of draft picks,… Read more »
Jack – I agree with you. It will be interesting to see what this front office does in the offseason. Personally, I do not want them to do anything that will prevent them from offering a max contract to a FA in 2014, which means I do not want them to go out and fill out the roster with above average players to ensure they make the playoffs as a 6, 7, or 8 seed. With that said, they need to do enough to give Kyrie, Dion, TT, and AV a good bench to help them make it in the… Read more »
Jack –
Totally agreed. IF the Cavs were to miss the playoffs next year, I suspect Grant might be on a very, very, very hot seat.
My ultimatum is playoffs in 2013-2014. There will be (likely) four lottery picks on the roster and six total first rounders from the last three seasons. While you do need experience to contend for a title, in a league where 8 of 15 in each conference and 16 of 30 in the game make the playoffs, and you play in the weaker conference, the talent alone should be good enough for the 8-seed in April 2014. MUST make playoffs in 2014. Short of losing your entire starting line up for the year, there is no excuse for not doing it… Read more »
Yeah, I think it’s safe to say that it this team wins 25 games next year, Byron Scott is gone. Other than that, I don’t really know what we can do. We don’t have a big dollar player to move. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
Bill –
A change will be made WELL before the end of the season if the Cavs aren’t on their way to a 40+ win season. And, depending on how ugly it gets if there isn’t major improvement, that change might involve more than just Byron.
Mallory- thanks for being more fair in this write-up. Tom must’ve come through to you after the podcast. After listening to the podcast, I criticized your consistently pessimistic view. This is a better. Keep it up!
I agree, the Cavs should win close to 40 games next year and be in the playoffs. If not, changes will have to be made.
The end result of the season says he’s poor in everything but his resume. Is it by design or due to ineptitude or poor staffing? I don’t really know. They don’t have a great overall roster but the Cavs shouldn’t be this bad. I still don’t think he gets fired but in every scenario put forth on this board the Cavs should be competing next season. If the injury bug hits again and the team falters, I think he is gone.