The Point-Fourward: Cause and Effect
2017-09-06Four points I’m thinking about the NBA…
1. Whenever I finish a particularly good book, I have a brief sense of sadness. It is such a lovely thing to be lost (or found) in a completely different universe where characters truly are at the mercy of an all powerful deity. An author’s authority to give fictional heroes a concrete reason for everything that happens is a delightful change from our existence on this very round (sorry Kyrie) bit of floating rock.
“Everything happens for a reason.”
Nope. Everything happens because of a reason.
Reason = Cause
Everything that happens = Effect.
In our world, meaning is often retroactively assigned to action. We invent logical rationale after seemingly irrational actions in order to maintain our belief in civilized behavior. We placate our sense of doubt by trying to create higher purpose. We take credit for all the good and assign the bad to some esoteric entity. Instead of sorting through a difficult reality, we somewhat pessimistically claim that that reality was by the hand of something greater than us.
In a book, the Cavs’ 2016 Championship was destined. The turmoil during the season was simply a plot device to set the stage for coming glory. David Griffin’s assertion that the Cavaliers enjoyed and thrived through turmoil is an interesting twist for the reader. Will our protagonists make it? By the time we arrive to the greatest shot in Finals history, the reader is primed for elation, but wracked with anxiety.
In a book, all of those causes were necessary. There is no championship without the turmoil. There is no glory without the anxiety. Since it actually went down that way in real life, we indulge in the “Butterfly Effect” without examining the necessity of it all.
Everything that happened to the 2016 squad was right because it produced a championship. From sub-tweets and Blatt’s removal, to Shumpert playing over Delly, it was right because they won. How very Leibnizian, this being the “Best of All Possible Worlds.”
But was it? Could it be that the Cavs could have won 70 games and steamrolled the Warriors without all the nonsense? Maybe had Tyronn Lue played different lineups, the series would have been done in five. Why is barely winning beyond reproach? Why is barely losing a complete failure? How much of that sentiment is the result of causation confusion?
Our society focuses so much on outcome that “process” became a catch phrase for one of the few people on planet Earth who planned for the future. Sam Hinkie made one awful draft pick(Okafur over Porzingis), but he was otherwise a brilliant GM. Simply understanding Cause and Effect made him so. How sad is that?
With that, I officially say goodbye to the Kyrie Irving era. He is the most fictional of real characters that I have come across. A test case for causality. It’s impossible to know whether his non-big-game laziness on the defensive end is the brilliant execution of long-term pragmatism or just run-of-the-mill narcissism. Has he always simply been pragmatic enough to save his energy? No matter how talented, there is no way that one with that offensive skill-set could actually be lazy. Is it that his ego necessitates the big game? Unless it is about him, it just isn’t. Pragmatically narcissistic? Is that a thing?!
If Brad Stevens can get Kyrie to actually run his offense, we will have a better idea of Kyrie’s true character. If Kyrie walks the ball up, takes 13 dribbles into an impossible shot that he somehow makes, then lazily jogs back on defense while his man scores a layup, we will know that Kyrie is the Cause and not the Effect.
2. Finally something is causing Cavs fans to smile. My man, Cedi Osman has been showing out in the 2017 Eurobasket. The Turkish wing began the tournament by dropping 28 points against a tough Russian squad. While most of his points came from the stripe, it wasn’t charity that got him there. His consistent aggression to the rim earned him 15 freebies. Defensively, the young man is relentless. You have no doubt already seen his best LeBron James impersonation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdqmGi4nqIE
Cedi has very active hands and anticipates passing lanes well. I have mostly compared him to a combination of Mathew Dellavedova and pre-injury Chandler Parsons. Cedi’s form on his jumper is pure. If he can eliminate the occasional left fade on this jump, his three for five success against Russia could be frequently repeated.
Though Cedi hasn’t scored as much in subsequent games, his all-round skill-set has been on display. Osman often works as the primary ball-handler for Turkey’s Pick and Roll game. He has a good hesitation dribble going left after he turns the corner. He has also shown the vision to skip pass to the opposite wing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV6MZ4h47Cc
I’ve been bullish on Osman since I first started scouting him for the 2015 draft. Cedi is an intangibles/glue-guy type player. Seeing him erupt every now and then is fun, but what is more promising is his defensive effort and consistency. Cavs fans may have a new favorite player before long.
3. Of course, we don’t yet know who Cedi’s competition will be. Since acquiring the Nets pick, the Cavaliers reportedly have had multiple trade suitors. The players most frequently mentioned in the rumors are Iman Shumpert and DeMarcus Cousins. I’m not usually one to go too far down the Trade Machine rabbit hole, but I did enjoy creating a trade that netted the Cavs Boogie Cousins, Eric Bledsoe and Jared Dudley for the price of Tristan Thompson, Channing Frye, Kay Felder, Iman Shumpert, and all the Cavs 2018 draft capital. One might balk at trading both the Nets and Cavs 2018 first round picks, but I value established productivity over theory.
Tyronn Lue could play some serious bully-ball with Boogie, Bledsoe, Dudley and Crowder on the squad. Those guys are all incredibly strong. Bruiser teams like the 2015 Cavs and Grizzlies have presented the Warriors problems in the past. Boogie is actually a better defender than Tristan Thompson and obviously offers more offensive range. A giant lineup consisting of Cousins, Love, Crowder, Korver and Bron could give teams real trouble on the glass. Any quick point guard would hesitate before entering that paint.
4. Even as the roster is currently constructed, the Cavs do have some real positional flexibility. What remains to be seen is whether Tyronn Lue can take advantage of it. Derrick Rose is likely to torpedo whatever kind of offensive sets that Lue will wish to run. He and Carmelo Anthony were the main culprits in short-circuiting the Knicks offense last year. I don’t expect Rose to magically decide to properly set off-ball screens or pass up tough driving layups. What I do expect is for Lue to have the confidence and authority to take the ball out of Rose’s hands.
Kevin Love will have to become a main playmaker again for the Cavs to have a shot at offensive efficiency. He fared well last season in his minutes without LeBron and Kyrie. Lue should lean hard on Love’s mid-post passing. A lineup of Love, Crowder, Cedi, Kyle, and JR could be functional against most second units. All are good to great team defenders, even if they occasionally struggle in their one-on-one assignments. Their shooting ranges could open up a lot of off-ball dives to the basket as teams struggle to jump over screens.
At the moment, I’m not going to include Isaiah Thomas, Iman Shumpert, or Kay Felder in any rotation speculation. I doubt the latter two will be on the roster come November and the questions surrounding IT’s health have been more than well-documented.
Still, it is nice to think about things like lineup rotations again. The drama of the NBA off-season may be entertaining at times, but I am more than ready to finish this book. It’s certainly not one to inspire any sadness upon its completion. Good riddance.
Thank you both CLF and Greek for the “play by play” on Cedi. Seems like we have a good player in our hands.
No problem. Sorry for highjacking the thread!
No apology necessary!
He’s raw and very young…. but he’s a natural basketball player. He seems to get the game.
Osman misses the 3 off the dribble, but gets the assist running the break!
Nice assist on the fast break by Cedi. He has been much better at passing the ball than what he showed in the Euroleague. Of course, he has the ball constantly in his hands in the national team, whereas in Efes he played almost strictly off the ball.
Is Ty Lue coaching the Turkish team? Cedi has played the whole 3rd quarter and doesn’t get a rest to start the 4th.
Looked like Osman a little out of control on defense… gets the foul.
But I like that he’s much more physical than last year.
That was a very good foul. He prevented the easy score and sent a poor free throw shooter to the line.
Another hard foul by Cedi to a terrible free throw shooter. He has come alive this quarter.
Tuned in at the right time HAHA! Thanks for the heads up Greek!!!
OSMAN WITH THE DEEP 3 AND THE FOUL!!!
LOL! 4 point play by Cedi! A 35 footer plus the foul!
OFF THE DRIBBLE!!! That was NBA worthy! I think Bertens was guarding him too!
True, Bertans was on him. That is the highlight of the tournament for him.
Osman misses the corner 3 off the cut…. another “Korver” 3 like Greek Cavs Fan said.
Cedi chucking 3s everytime he catches the ball. He has taken 5 or 6 threes this quarter.
I like it… shows he understands his role and is willing to be aggressive.
Not a good FT by Osman. Must be tired, front rimming both of them.
Nice drive on the kick out pass by Osman… draws the foul.
First time he was aggressive all night..
He needs to keep the pedal to the metal!
Cedi running the point, nice pass for the assist! Terrible defense lol
Porzingis with a monster dunk!
Cedi Osman, misses the 1st 3, then swishes the 2nd! His stroke looks good!
It was the third he made. They got 2 off rebounds.
He also elbowed Bertans on the neck. He could have been ejected if they didn’t play in Turkey.
Yeah, saw that…. Euro basketball much more physical than I remember.
Cedi just took 3 threes on the same possession! He made the last one. Shooters shoot…
Cedi Osman with a nice 3 right out of the bounds play!!!
Yeah, catch and shhot falling sideways, Kyle Korver style. Nice!
Yes high degree of difficulty!!!
Because of Porzingis the center form the center of the Turkish squad follows him all the way out to the 3 point line, Osman plays the 5 on D and the results are not very good. Latvia had many dunks and 14 assists in the half (again it is far more difficult to accumulate assists in FIBA tournaments).
Porzingis is killing it in the Latvia-Turkey game. 19 points and the second half just started. That’s like a 25 point half in the NBA. Cedi is very quiet tonight. That was a problem all season, he got lost for large parts of games.
But not like scoring 36 points in a quarter….
Haha, he is not on Love’s level yet.
WATCHED THE NEWS CONFERENCE / CAVS —-THOUGHT KOBY HANDLED HIMSELF RATHER WELL —-JUST LOVE IT’S GRITTINESS/ SHOWS THRU EVEN AT THE CONFERENCE —-MAN CROWDER IS A LARGE DUDE —-ANTE MIGHT BE A ” SLEEPER ” IN THIS TRADE —–JUST MY THOUGHTS
https://twitter.com/RealTristan13/status/905855308827725824
Turkey & Latvia just tipped. Both teams are in the knockout round, this one is just for seeding.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/905840896628989952
That was the only newsworthy item from the presser. That is good news. If we hit Christmas without a clear word, then I’m going to starting getting nervous. OK, maybe Thanksgiving.
I wonder if their approach to IT stems from not doing surgery and getting 75% of IT or doing surgery and getting 0% of IT?
Yes. You got it. He needs surgery but they figure he’s on a one year deal
If you missed the press conference you can watch it from the beginning here: http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/live
Joe Vardon goes after the hip. Altman shuts him down. Lololol….
McMenamin continues with hip questions. Yeah you’re new here Koby I’m gonna ask my questions.
Jason Lloyd also went after the hip for the hat trick.
The fact that they don’t want to reveal a time table for IT is concerning.
I can see why they would say that. They don’t want to be beholden to a certain time, and if that time is not met, it will cause a whole new wave of questions and controversy. They handled the situation exactly as they should’ve.
They reveal time frames all the time for players. This isn’t something new. To me it suggests that the hip is a pretty serious issue.
Not if there is any question, which there obviously is in this case. For example, what is the Brown’s timetable for Myles Garrett?
Right, so you’re proving my point.
Finally a question for Zizik….
Crowder is either a low talker or has a bad mic ?
When you look that tough, people try extra hard to listen!
They should’ve had an extra chair for the Brooklyn pick at this presser.
Lue is strangely high on Jeff Green. I wonder if he thinks he’s Draymond?!?!?
A lot of Boston reporters here. Geez!!!!
EVEN THOUGH WE MIGHT NOT HAVE IT IN UNIFORM / PLAYING AT THE START OF THE SEASON—BELIEVE JUST HIS PRESENCE / FIERY ATTITUDE / CONFIDENCE WILL BE A POSITIVE IN THE LOCKERROOM / COURTSIDE
WHAT TIME DOES CEDI PLAY –OR HAVE THEY ALREADY PLAYED/ IF SO –ANY STAT LINE —THANKS !!—–GO TRIBE GET # 15 TONIGHT !!
I must say, basketball aside, I agree with IT and its refreshing to hear a player talk about being a good, respectful person. IT will not be having off-the-court issues.
This isn’t a dig on Kyrie, who was clean off the court. But IT & Crowder are quality guys. They will help in the locker room. They bring energy on the court. Camaraderie off it. I think chemistry w ill be better on court. (that is a dig at Kyrie).
I think the IT/Love connection should be exponentially better.
You mean to tell me IT3 doesn’t believe the Earth is flat? Uh, WHAT?!
Not talking hip stuff. Predictable there. Thanks to Kyrie from Altman. Love it that IT & Jae are combatitive, competitive types. As IT said, they were high level competitors on a team that was supposed to be rebuilding. For a title contending team, that level should only increase.
IT saying he’s blessed to be playing next to the best player on the planet. Both him and Jae sound happy to be here.
I think, even if he doesn’t play much or at all this season, he will be a great locker room guy. Certainly better than Kyrie in that aspect.
IT rocking the wine jacket. Looks good.
https://twitter.com/JasonLloydNBA/status/905827039181189120
Can Wade play any PG?
In certain line ups, but not as the 1st or 2nd option IMO
Absolutely. He was a PG for most of his career. The question is always how much he can defend the PG. Not any worse than the rest of the guards on the roster, even at his age. But one wouldn’t want to play him too many minutes. You must save his legs for the playoffs.
No he wasn’t. He just played for some terrible teams and was the only offense. So he went iso a lot. That is different than running the point/team. Though I’ll admit, he certainly can make plays with the ball in his hands.
Sorry Jason. He literally was listed as a PG his first couple seasons in the league. He was the primary ball handler on almost every non LeBron team he played on. He has essentially been a point the majority of his career. Same with Harden. We just started calling him so last year.
Ben wins! Finish him!
Ben is kind of our Johnny Cage
Are you comfortable until IT gets back doing a PG by Committee?
What ben said below. He can be as good a PG as Kyrie was in Cleveland offense. That said, he lost speed and struggling to stay healthy.
https://twitter.com/ATLHawks/status/905803179882926080
Doncic with 15/9/3 for Slovenia in their win. I know he is not an elite athlete, but he does appear to be a elite hoops thinker. Remarkable at age 18.
Turkey plays today. They have advanced & this one is for seeding. Vs Latvia & Porzingas.
I have seen and been apart of a lot of Dmac bashing on this blog. However, that is only because of the current state/rules/officiating of the NBA. Let’s be real people. Boogie is very very good. However, the rules of the NBA have changed with the zone and no hand checks on the perimeter. Even more so, how those rules are officiated have changed significantly over the past 3-4 years. Boogie is unfortunately in the wrong era. During the 1960s through until about 2010 he would be a top 10 player with his skill set. Now, to his and perhaps… Read more »
And as a secondary point, I think the zone was a product of that interior mauling but a wrongheaded solution to it that did not address but rather exaggerated the problem and created new ones in turn.
Aside from the ridiculous about of fouls (most egregious being the pump fake and flail), I love the Zones and the amount the ball moves now…
The ball used to move with offenses like the triangle and it certainly moves during the 1980s on teams like the Celtics, and Lakers. I blame everything on the bad boy Pistons. They turned the league from a beautiful fast paced league into the grind house of the 90s and early to mid 2000s. The league is better than it was 10-20 years ago, but I don’t know if 70% of the teams taking 40-50% of their shots as threes is a great thing or great basketball. That number is going to rise too.
The league favored a faster paced game, emphasizing offense. I agree with Nate, other than the stupid pump fake flopping, mostly by Harden, I think the league is in a good place.
The Indians have passed the Dodgers (at least for the moment) and now lead the majors in run differential for the season.
Nice!!!!
https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/905626716374228993
Kluber pitches tomorrow too!
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWIndians!!!!
What a load – The Q deal is back on now after GCC was paid off. I dont understand how they can ‘withdraw’ a petition signed by thousands and ruled on by courts
http://www.wkyc.com/mobile/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-cavaliers-announce-recommitment-to-quicken-loans-arena-transformation-project/471639373
I don’t think it’s that bad of a deal. It’s better than paying $700 M in 10 years for a new arena. Plus I believe DG is going to fund some mental health facilities for the Opiate epidemic.
I think the GCC was already getting a cut, and maybe the petition was a stunt to get a bigger cut.
I don’t think they’re getting a cut. They just wanted funding to help support the city.
https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/905619008636014592
Man the White Sox are god awful!
SLAMTANA! Tribe up 3-0 in the 7th.
8th inning…
FWIW, a note on Rose. He has shown the ability to modify his game. Last year he dramatically reduced his 3PT FGAs per game to under two. I think it was over 5 at one point. If he can run some more offense (Rose + Love or LeBron in P&R could be fun), limit his 3s, and continue to shoot well at the rim, he’ll be an asset. If he finds his Chicago defensive effort, he’ll be fantastic.
If they can trot him out on 2nd units the majority of the time, he should dominate the rest of the NBA’s 2nd units.
This is the best-case scenario for Rose: play him limited minutes to keep him healthy all season, and and play him mostly against backups.
Now they just need a starting point guard…
Agree with Phil.
Agreed. He may have to start at the start. However, we could just start LeBron at the point. James, JR, Crowder, Love, TT. Defending the other team’s PG a challenge, we are used to it. Bench: Rose, Shump, Korver, Frye + RJ/Cedi/Green.
Good piece Ben. At least points 1,2, & 4. As noted, 3 is impossible. We can’t trade both 2018 picks. We don’t have a 2019 pick so we have to keep at least 1 2018.
Also, Boogie is on record as saying he would NOT like to play with Bron. Not a fan of his. Plus he can walk after this year. Keep Brk pick unless Bron says he will re-up. Plus, maybe KD or Steph get hurt. You never know. We could have our chip & keep the pick.
Cavs have three of the top 20 rpm guys in league, with love, Crowder, and LeBron. Cavs should absolutely be looking to move that Brooklyn pick if they can get another top 25 guy on a deal that extends their window 2-3 years. Boogie fits that script, but they need guards. I’d be chasing George Hill in Dec., or McCollum
McCollum would be a nice get.
Keep the Brooklyn pick unless AD becomes available, i swear this blog is the sky is falling blog, im glad you guys are not the gm of the Cavs.
What comment in this thread is “sky is falling?”
The vast majority for the last week.
For example of insanity, formerly sane participants keep suggesting trades such as the Bkln pick + ??? for Boogie, a lifelong malcontent and underachiever, who has said he will not play with LeBron, and is on a one year contract. I don’t think they are kidding.
Last week was different, a trade was made and people reacted to it. I don’t get the sense that folks are panicked about it, especially a week later.
BTW the sky is falling in the south. I hope those people find shelter.
27/12 is super underachieving.
I would not touch Boogie with the Nets pick. It’s beyond me why people are so infatuated with Boogie. Yeah, yeah…’top 5 talent’…bottom 5 head.
I’m just saying we got a good haul for Kyrie, this blog had a hour and a half podcast saying how bad the trade was, and now that the trade was made everyone in this comment section wants to trade the best piece of the trade the Brooklyn pick. In that trade we wanted help now and for the future, the Brooklyn pick is the future. Granted Isiah hip is not ideal, but to get Crowder thats the now. I guess you guys just love the trade machine too much, its ok to dream, but the Boston offer was the… Read more »
There are no guarantees you will make it to the finals ever again. So, yes I would want to move the Brooklyn pick for the right piece(s), not Boogie. But I would also be okay moving our own pick for say someone like Bledsoe, which would make me happier about the trade w/ Boston. You don’t know if Boston had the best offer. Not to rehash too much about this issue… I like Crowder, but for winning now, he’s really the only piece that can probably contribute in a meaningful way. If they can acquire a starting PG w/ one… Read more »
HERE WE GO WITH THE BROWNS AGAIN—-“GARRETT TO MISS MULTIPLE GAMES DUE TO ANKLE INJURY “—-WOW ONLY THE BROWNS COULD PULL THIS OFF —- A SURE FIRE # 1 PICK WILL PROBABLY BE INJURY PRONE HIS ENTIRE CAREER
We can’t trade both the Brooklyn pick and our own 2018 pick. It’s a good thing our 2018 pick is basically worthless. It’s essentially a second rounder.
I don’t want to trade the Brooklyn pick – especially for Boogie. His position is de-valued and he’s not a good defender. I thought JR was a knucklehead and I wasn’t a fan. He proved me wrong – perhaps, in part, because he and Lebron have a good relationship dating back to their AAU days? Even then, he got suspended for the silly foul against Boston. But the Cavs got JR as a throw in, so there was very little downside. Who will reign in Boogie? Boogie reminds me of Derrick Coleman – another big who’s impact never approached his… Read more »
Boogie is volatile, immature and with anger issues. He thinks he gets fouled every time, stays on floor or complaining to ref for 4 of on other end. Great talent, almost Shaq level, but maturity issues. He might be matured one day but not likely next two years.
“He thinks he gets fouled every time, stays on floor or complaining to ref for 4 of on other end.”
Pretty sure LeBron James, Draymond Green, and 90% of the other players in the league do the same thing.
They all get back on D even while complaining. Cousins, in order to get foul, hits the floor and he is already slow to get back. When he attempts a shot or scores, it is usually 4 on 5 other end.
Not going to argue that you’re wrong. But I think a guy like Boogie could thrive on a good team, playing alongside LeBron and other veterans that are winners.
I wonder what Draymond’s reputation would be if he was drafted by the Kings instead of the Warriors? He’s passionate too, but would passion be confused with immature and headcase on a losing team? Probably. A lot can change when a player is winning. I just don’t see how Boogie would be anything but a fantastic additional on this team.
Draymond is like Rodman/Artest kind who carry certain reputation yet loved by coaches, teammates and fans. He got a very small role in the first year and he handled it well. He was patient enough to have a pathetic coach like Mark Jackson grow on him. I don’t like some of the things Draymond pulls sometimes but he is no Cousins. Cousins had an excellent opportunity to be a leader with Kings. He was part of the problem, with draymond, he would be part of solution, not problem. Character issues aside, for all talent he is, his game doesn’t fit… Read more »
I’m pretty sure a rim protector that can’t score points would have made no difference for us last year. The NBA is changing. You don’t need a rim protector to win a championship (see: Cleveland and Golden State).
A 5 that can shoot from deep, score 40 on any given night, and average 12 RPG? Sounds like an asset to me.
Agree that warriors Cs other than Draymond are not rim protectos. But, Draymond closes the games and he is DPOY. Just to throw a name, James Johnson for example may not give the numbers that Cousins give but might help more to notching wins. There are quite a few players in NBA like Cousins who can fill box score without helping his team to win. Not sure if there is even a single playoff team in NBA with a C as primary or secondary scorer, Memphis being exception. I think Cavs can do much better than Cousins with that pick.… Read more »
Centers are much less valuable against the Warriors. DJ and Gasol are strong defenders, but neither is going to do well switching on a wing player. And Draymond is much more valuable in today’s NBA than Boogie. If you put Draymond on the Cavs and Boogie on the Warriors, wouldn’t the Cav’s be favored to win? FWIW, I’d trade the Brooklyn pick for Draymond in a heartbeat. But none of the players that actually might be available are worth that pick. Of players that might be available, I’d say Patrick Beverly and Jared Dudley would top my list. If IT… Read more »
I will agree that Boogie MIGHT thrive on a good team, and the Cavs in particular, and finally become a top 10 player. But this happening is somewhere between not likely and a long shot; maybe a 1 in 10 chance. Given that he is on a one year contract, I would not want to invest much in a trade for him. The troubled young player with great talent is a common story in all sports. Some of them get it together while they still have good years left. Plenty of them don’t. If Boogie does figure it out, I… Read more »
Boogie Cousins is a top 5-10 talent in the league. His attitude isn’t something to ignore, but the guy isn’t out getting arrested and doing drugs. He gets angry on the court.. doesn’t Draymond Green do the same thing? I wonder which player has been suspended more in the last 2-3 years? I sometimes think Boogie would need to average 35/20 for people to recognize he’s a game-changer. I wish someone would give me a list of players that would have had more success with the same dreadful Kings roster that Boogie has had for his entire career in the… Read more »
I think you’re overrating his impact. Top 5-10 players lead their teams to the playoffs. Top 20-30 more like it.
Top 5-10 talent* is what I should have said. But I disagree that top 5-10 players lead their teams to the playoffs. Kobe couldn’t lead his team to the playoffs when he had nothing around him in LA, and he’s one of the best players of all time. Sure, there is something to be said about a player you can build around. Cousins shouldn’t be the #1 guy. If I was starting from scratch, he sure as hell wouldn’t be on my top 10 list of guys to build around. So, you’re right, to an extent. BUT, while some players… Read more »
And that’s why Kobe is the most overrated player ever.
Exactly this. He’s probably a flat earth truther as well.
Yep. Inefficient gunner like AI.
I’m not one to overamp RPM but it’s a pretty good tool for. Seeing the top guys at winning basketball games,even though there are lots of caveats. Boogie is not top 10. 15-20 is more likely. He’s 20th in per game rpm and 17th in wins. I bet he’d grade out similarly in a lot of other analytical measurements. I do think he can definitely improve and news of him being in amazing shape can’t hurt.
I don’t think Koby is a top 20 all time player, probably lower than that.
I think he’s generally ranked 11-15, which I would also disagree with.
If you think Boogie is top five in the NBA, you are out to lunch. “Put Boogie on the Cavs, …”. Unfortunately, he won’t go on the floor when LeBron is there.
DO LIKE IT’S ATTITUDE —–HOPE HIS INJURY IS NOT AS BAD AS THE MEDIA IS “HYPING ” IT TO BE
Not sure if this has been posted… but I’m hyped for IT, hope his hip healing well. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/isaiah-thomas-trade-celtics-cavaliers/
I feel bad for the guy. I don’t even think he’ll play one minute for the Cavs. Bad timing for his FA. He’s not even the centerpiece of this trade. It was for a pick and Crowder. He was a throw in.
Should be plenty of motivation for him to get healthy and play at a high level.
I am not a big IT fan, but he was much more than a throw in. He is better than any other point guard ( assuming we don’t count LeBron as one) on the Cavs. We would not have traded Irving for the pick and Crowder alone.
Yup… he was seen as a guy who could immediately contribute to a championship run this year.
Am I the only one who doesn’t believe that Cousins is a better defender than TT? I did a double take at that claim from Ben. (I’m sure there’s some advanced metric that supports the idea, but I find it to be very dubious that it’s true in reality. I could be wrong though.)
I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I didn’t think Cousins was known for defense, so your evaluation seems accurate. Cousins is bigger and can maybe bully guys more, but TT is probably better at switching/etc.
Does anyone have a stat for Love’s dRPM improvement from his Minnesota days to Cleveland? Something tells me Boogie winning 60+ games playing alongside LeBron and Love would increase his defensive effort.
Exactly. TT is always engaged. Boogie is often out to lunch. They are still analogous defenders by the numbers. I can’t stand watching Boogie. That crybaby face drives me nuts. But any trade that I propose with him is with the understanding that it wouldn’t go through unless Bron were to be completely on board. I figure that if that were the case, we would see a version of Boogies that would destroy the league. His talent is so great, it would be possible. What is more likely is that LeBron would say, “no frickin way” and everyone would go… Read more »
+1, pretty much what I said but you put it more clearly.
Great catch. Boogie has a. 64 dRPM and Tristan a 1.3 neither number is great for a center but both played on abysmal defensive teams. Boogie is a better shot blocker, but he’s never cared all that much on D. I do think he’ll be better and in incredible shape but he’s not a guy that is going to terrify teams defensiv
Shots fired:
https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/905513482560385024
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/905512257144188929
Also of note, not sure it really matters at this point. But I believe Boogie has come out in stating that he wouldn’t want to play with LeBron. So it’s something to consider.
Great catch. Boogie has a. 64 dRPM and Tristan a 1.3 neither number is great for a center but both played on abysmal defensive teams. Boogie is a better shot blocker, but he’s never cared all that much on D. I do think he’ll be better and in incredible shape but he’s not a guy that is going to terrify teams defensively.
I think it’s all wait and see with Boogie. If the Pels start the season slow, they may try to recoup their investment. I wouldn’t give them the Brooklyn pick, but I could be talked into our own pick, plus Shump and fillers.
I don’t believe we can trade our 2018 first round pick because we traded away our 2019 first round pick already. You can’t trade away your first round pick in consecutive years (Stepien Rule).
If they keep the Brooklyn pick they can trade their own pick. At least that is what I’ve read. They cannot trade both picks. It’s one or the other.
So, if that’s true, then assuming we were to trade our first round pick, we would not be able to trade the Nets pick?
That’s my understanding.
Yeah, my bad. I forgot that the Cavs already ditched their 2019 pick.
It is hard to predict the future, but Boogie being a bum his entire career is a pretty good bet. It is possible that the right structure (read: LeBron) will cause him to turn over a new leaf and realize his potential. I suggest you not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
Expecting to win with Boogie is a long shot. The only way it makes sense for the Cavs is if they get him for pretty much free. Trading the Brooklyn pick for Boogie is insane.
This is beyond ridiculous. How many players in the NBA average 27/12? Seriously, how many are capable of doing that?
Oh, he gets mad and was stuck on an atrocious Sacramento team, the laughingstock organization of the NBA, so his talent is meaningless and he sucks.
No, let’s hold onto the Brooklyn pick and ensure we don’t win another title. Seems legit.
“BE HERE NOW” Do whatever is necessary to compete in the 2018 finals. Trade the draft pick, get Wade, get Melo, keep Lebron and the following year CP3 joins the banana boat on lake Erie.
Exactly. There are no guarantees that they will be back to the finals if/when LeBron leaves/retires. Look at all the teams that have never been to the conference finals, and/or the finals. I’d go all in, use that pick, if they can, to improve the team now.
Agree 100%. The only use we have for the Brooklyn pick is to trade it for a star player. That might not be until the deadline, but that’s absolutely the best use of that asset.
Holding onto it is stupid IMO. Unless people enjoy not winning championships.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM AINGE ( ANYONE FROM BOSTON AREA )—-AKA: APPLE WATCHES TO STEAL PITCHES —NEED I SAY MORE
Terrifying article on Isaiah’s hip. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injury
The good news is that IT can’t really play in the finals anyways. Hip or no hip.
I know you enjoy saying that just to be obnoxious, but you have no clue if he can or not. The reason the Tribe has Jose Ramirez is because all the other teams ignored him because he is too short to play in the big leagues.
Actually I really believe it. But I’m happy to be wrong. And I never realized that players needed to be big to play in the MLB?
I hope IT is healthy for the finals. Then we will either say “Yep, he can’t play in the finals”, or “Wow! Who’da thunk it?”.
I just want Jose Ramirez to dunk on him!
It’s a good thing height isn’t important in the NBA, /s
I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CONTRACTS—BUT COULDN’T THE CAVS HAD PUT IN THE CONTRACT IF THE INJURY IS A CAREER ENDING INJURY OR IF IT DOESN’Y PLAY AT ALL THIS YEAR ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICKS WOULD BE REQUIRED —JUST WONDERING ?
VERY WELL WRITTEN —ENJOYED ——ILIKE TRADING FOR BOOGIE ( BELIEVE HE WILL CHANGE HIS ATTITUDE IN RIGHT ENVIRONMENT —CORRECT J.R. )—BUT NEED A COMMITMMENT THAT HE RESIGNS WITH THE CAVS —OTHERWISE NO DEAL ——-MAYBE GRIFF DIDN’T LEAVE THE CAVS DUE TO MONEY—MAYBE HE DIDN’T WANT TO BE PART OF ALL THIS DRAMA / STRESS / MAYBE AFTER 3 YRS HE HAD ENOUGH
https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/905170364774350849
Nobody on the national front saying anything new. Probably nothing left to say. They use “LeBron James” as click-bait by just repeating the same things over and over while the rest of us are just sitting here with Schrodinger’s LeBron. As far as we are all concerned, LeBron is both leaving the Cavaliers and staying on the Cavaliers until we open that box.
Both things are true.
IT looking for a new agent: http://amicohoops.net/report-cavs-thomas-to-seek-new-agent/
He can become apart of the Klutch all-stars and DG can sign him to a max deal
I would not trade for Boogie. I’m not that high on him.
Boogie will be a bad pick. I saw him too many times where he just stays on floor or walk to refs complaining about a call, apparently he thinks he gets fouled all the time and there is some conspiracy going on against him, he doesn’t get back on D. You guys think Draymond whines a lot, wait until you watch Cousins. Great talent but a whiner more than a winner. Hopefully he figures it out but don’t think he is there yet. The guy clearly has anger issues, may be Ron Artest’s psychiatrist can help him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDOUDskt6s
I would not trade for boogie without a commitment. Any player had to have two years left or more, IMO. Preferably four.
Cedi Osman has looked good but it is funny in those Turkish highlights they show free throw highlights those announcers are exciting they brought soccer commentators to basketball.
Count me in the camp that would be thrilled to trade for Boogie. I think his “attitude” rep is overblown. I find it hard to believe the guy would be a locker room issue on a team playing to go to its 4th straight NBA Finals.
Are you joking?? Boogie’s attitude rep is overblown? Not. Also, do you think that Boogie’s has never been on a winning team despite having top draft picks all the time is a coincidence? Not likely.
Do you even watch basketball? Are you seriously going to pretend that Boogie Cousins ever had a good team around him? The guy had to play for George Karl, a guy who absolutely hated him, for how many years? Imagine a coach that would just blast you in the media time and time again. Has any other coach done that? No? Ok. Let’s look at the awesome draft picks the Kings have had, since apparently the fact that they all suck is Cousins’ fault. Biyombo (7) Thomas Robinson (5) Ben McLemore (7) Nik Stauskus (8) Willy Cauly-Stein (6) Georgios Papagiannis… Read more »
Well, I remember when Zach Lowe related on his podcast how shocked he was hearing from multiple players how disliked Cousins was on the Olympic tryout teams. So I certainly think it’s no myth. He has earned his rep. It’s who he is.
I dont think we can trade both the 2018 picks – must keep one or the other?
That is correct.
Do you mean by league rules?
In a vacuum, you could trade them both. You can’t trade your first round draft pick in consecutive years though and since we already traded our 2019 first rounder (top 10 protected) to the Hawks in the Korver deal, then we can’t trade our 2018 first rounder. Although, we can trade the Nets 2018 first round pick.