Open Thread: Conference Finals cont’d. (Bonus: Roster Review, Center edition)
2021-06-25We’re back with Roster Review part five of five, the Center edition… let’s dive in!
Jarrett Allen
It’s weird to write about Jarrett Allen with the looming chance that the Cleveland Cavaliers might replace him with Evan Mobley but regardless, Allen came in and showed that he has the ability to be a legitimate starting center now and in the future for the Cavs. He’s one of only a couple of players on the roster (Larry Nance Jr. being the other) that could actually find rotation minutes on a playoff team. Unfortunately for Allen, Evan Mobley brings elite defense to the table along with the type of playmaking, skill, and touch that sets him apart from a guy such as Allen.
Outside of the draft, another factor that complicates Allen’s roster status and future is his own looming restricted free agency. The market has cratered on defensive bigs with limited offensive upside over the past couple of years, and decent bigs such as Jakob Poeltl and Nerlens Noel can be found for minimal expense. At the beginning of the offseason there were reports that Allen’s seeking something possibly north of 100 million dollars total, and that there are multiple teams that could pursue him. Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports reported that Brooklyn had offered four years at 48 million dollars total that Allen declined. Jarrett Allen’s free agency will surely be one of the most fascinating stories to watch about the Cavs and NBA at large. Luckily for the Cavs, they don’t have to make a decision about Allen until after the draft.
Isaiah Hartenstein
Hard Rock Hartendimes was another feel good story for the Cavs on the margins of the roster. The 23 year old German American showed he could play legit NBA defense with some elite rim protection (7.1% block percentage, 97th percentile in the NBA) and solid defensive playmaking overall, and also established himself surprisingly as one of the best passers on the roster (23.5 assist ratio in 16 games with the Cavs). Hard Rock credited NBA MVP Nikola Jokić for the development of his playmaking.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer’s Chris Fedor reported a few weeks ago that Hard Rock will likely opt out of his player option and become a free agent, which is a smart move on his part because he could easily triple his 1.7 million dollar 2021-22 option on the open market. Fedor also reported that Hard Rock would like to stay with the Cavs in a multi-year deal. One has to think the draft and Jarrett Allen’s pending free agency could make Hard Rock expendable to indispensable in short order depending on what happens with those two events.
Mfiondu Kabengele
Consider yours truly a fan of underdog Mfiondu Kabengele. The stats show an energy small ball center who can protect the rim well (3.9% block percentage, 87th percentile in the NBA) and generally hold up on defense and on the boards. He also showed a willingness to stretch the floor by letting his three ball fly, and although he wasn’t particularly a knock-down shooter (28.1% from three in 16 games for the Cavs), he shows fantastic shooting touch at the free throw line for his career (21 for 25, 84%). As a third string center, Kabengele is absolutely worth a look-see to find out if he can develop into a rotation big with potential stretch ability on offense.
Big triple to end the half by Booker. Inbounding with under four seconds.
Good response from the Clips. Back up ten
12-0 Suns run after being down 14. Game on.
Clips not gonna die wondering.
they are locked in
the underachieving overachievers finally decided to achieve something
“PREACH IT BUCKAROOO……PREACH IT “——WOW YOU TOOK ME DOWN MEMORY LANE WITH SOME OF THOSE NAMES —NETTELES / CHAMBLISSS/ TIDROW ALL PERENIAL ALL STARS WITH THE YANKS
NOMAD bro.. yes.. cleveland’s gift to NYC.. multiple world series victories.. and we will gift do it again with the current idiocy running the cavs if ownership allows it..
Following on from his primer podcast with Chris Fedor, Bobby Marks has put together a very helpful — and essentially comprehensive and drama-free — summary of the Cavs’ offseason needs and salary/contract situation.
https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/insider/story/_/id/31707207/offseason-moves-cleveland-cavaliers-rebuild-gain-traction
It’s all quite smooth but both he and the ESPN editors (presumably these stories are proofread before going live?) call Lamar Stevens ‘Lamar Peters’ more than once as the article nears a conclusion. Billboard material for our man from Penn State.
He also helps to reorient the discussion around Kevin Love on the Olympic team, quite logical.
while not a serious student of the game, as many of you are, i am a world-class iconoclast with a nose for steaming piles (developed growing up with the indians in the mid-to-late 60s).. i think the cavs need to be very careful with any trade involving sexton (think nettles, chambliss, tidrow.. core of the yankees resurgence in the 70s).. if he is traded i fear he gets to the playoffs (and possibly the finals) before the cavs do.. bank on it.. the cavs will be a laughing-stock for years.. personally, i think they need to just develop the youth,… Read more »
It’s such a no-win for so many teams though. Not to let the Cavs off the hook, because I absolutely do not think that they are well run… but you just don’t win with youth, no matter how good they are. And all that losing leads to frustration, and without a deeply ingrained culture or well defined system, everything winds up getting blown up every few years.
I wish the NBA resembled MLB is some ways, at least in regards to the G-Leauge. Wish young guys were developed down there and brought up when it made sense.
pick your poison.. the frustrations of youth, which should be mitigated with growth and maturation over a reasonable time frame (and the core of sex-land, jarrett, okoro and the #3 this year does have some promise, imho, even though the results to date have been disappointing), or the multi-year disaster that will likely ensue when an incompetent front office and GM start blindly swinging for the fences to prove they belong in the pro ranks.. to me this is as clear a choice as there can be.. with fools running the ship.. keep it simple stupid (kiss) should be the… Read more »
Yeah I don’t disagree.
Dame in Portland and Simmons in Philly seem the biggest names likely to move. Possibly McCollum & Love as well.
Marks with a good writeup on our offseason. No mention of wing depth as a need makes me think he is a 10,000 feet guy, like most national writers. Nor no recognition that Okoro is really a big guard.
sorry, I should have posted my note on the Marks piece here, didn’t see your comment Jason. Marks just absorbs the wing discussion into the more general point about needing vets. Cedi Osman is now part of that conversation along with Taurean Prince and Larry Nance, Jr. You’re right about national media not watching this team or being very familiar with Prince’s role on the team in the games played, for instance, or Okoro’s versatility.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1409345849642078211?s=20
Tucker is made of titanium.
Floor will require repair I think.
https://twitter.com/KirkSeriousFace/status/1409341055028367361?s=20
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1409341997832355840?s=20
Hawks D has been consistently impressive.
With Hunter hurt.
Middleton had his man beat. Just make the layup.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1409336728721178626?s=20
Giannis cannot help himself with the 3 pt attempts. Like a fly spellbound by the UV light.
Jrue has had the wierdest playoffs.
You spelled career wrong.
Harsh! He was balling a month ago.
He’s been super up and down his whole career.
Huerter over Sexton take is looking pretty good right now!!! LMFAOOOOOOo
Red Velvet forever!!!!!
He’s sensational.
Unafraid of the moment!!!
Trae is toilet paper soft
Bucks put the screws down defensively. Nice 10-0 run to close the quarter, fueled by trapping p/r.
Reggie Miller “Giannis has lived in the paint this entire post-season”. Demonstrating again he just has not been paying attention.
Yeah. That was odd.
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU CLF——IF WE HAD EVEN DRAFTED 6TH / 7TH WOULD STILL PROBABLY BE LEARY OF DRAFTING KUMINGA—-WOULD TAKE BARNES OR JOHNSON OVER HIM
yup… agreed, he reminds me sadly of Cam Reddish, looks like he should be a hooper, but can’t actually play.
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/06/cleveland-cavaliers-attend-jonathan-kumingas-pro-day-will-host-him-for-private-workout-next-month.html
yeah saw that, hopefully it’s trade bait and due diligence. Watching Kuminga’s game, he’s just so damn raw…. about the only things I can really give him credit for are some handles, some finishing ability, and MAYBE a little bit of passing… and I’m being very generous with all three of these things relative to other players.
He might be able to be a better scorer than Barnes, but I’d give Barnes the edge as a passer and defender.
I’d take Barnes all day over Kuminga.
So Dame might be on the market now LMFAOOOOO:
https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1409249662351994881?s=20
All the wife beaters are getting gigs this year.
Just finished listening to both of the recent podcasts – great job Nate, Chris, and Eli. Personally very excited for the 3rd pick. I think the Cavs will keep the pick and hoping they select Green. I think a Garland, Green, Okoro, Love, Allen starting 5 could show some promise. Give Sexton a chance to play 6th man and if by mid-season, things sour – start looking at the trade market. And yes, definitely hoping for better health and luck for LNJ, but I still think he’s better suited as a big off the bench until he can more reliably… Read more »
Appreciate you listening Vintage!!!
pretty much agree with everything… only thing I’d say is that Collin and his people might force their hand on a trade before the season.
Even more of a win if that happens… I’m so over Sexton lol
I stumbled across this online:
https://section215.com/2021/06/26/philadelphia-76ers-cavaliers-sexton/
This clown thinks the Cavs will “realistically” trade the #3 pick, Sexton, and LNJ for Ben Simmons.
Did they legalize pot in PA?
don’t blame the pot…. that’s a crackhead take LMFAOOOOOO
philly crack monkey..
LOL…Sexton and the #3 not good enough, have to throw in Nance, too…Sixers have the league over a barrel…
I might go for Sexton + Love for Simmons and either the 28 or 50 pick.
Suns win 84-80. Up 3-1. Unless Kawhi comes back, looking dim for Clips.
i think it could still go to 7, this is a 50/50 series without Kawhi.
Not with 2 in Phoenix and Paul back to near normal with the rust knocked off, it isn’t. Suns in 5 if no Kawhi. Though I think the game itself will be close.
Of course, someone has to make some shots next game, right?
I hope you’re right!!! but Clips’ roster is deep even without Kawhi… Lue fumbling the bag right now but could figure it out.
I thought CP3 pulled something there, but he just lost his shoe
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO I LOVE IT!!!
Dumb gets you beat, Demarcus.
PG misses first. Misses second on purpose. pSuns foul on rebound. Boogie makes first, intentional miss misses rim.
CP3 makes both. Time to foul again
WOW REFS WITH THE MAKEUP CALL LMFAOOOOOOo
I like the foul there.
PG makes both.
Refs doing everything in their power to give the CLips the game LMFAOOO
Or the replay official is.
true, it’s Seacaucus!!! LMFAOOO
Clips ball.
CP3 misses twice. PG13 all over him. Ayton o-board. Suns ball on 2nd miss under review.
No one has cracked 80 yet.
Clips score, down to 3. Time for Paul to ice it.
Huge there. Booker fouls on on review. Charge no block
Open looks are few and far between here. I love it.
this is real hooper paradise LMFAOOOOOO
I love max effort.
Both teams sub 22% on triples. The most efficient shot in the game!
This game is a slugfest/brickfest. Been stuck on 71-70 for like 4 minutes. Everything contested.
First team to 80 wins.
both teams gassed to hell
Yep. Short rotations. Max effort on D.
Clips have made it a game, but Ayton just killing them on the boards…
This Phoenix team could win it all. They’re very good. LA came out of timeout in an extended zone and Suns destroyed it. Ayton with a beautiful flash for a foul line J. Then Bridges makes a gorgeous cut and finish to close out thr half.
This gamr is kind of meh. Feel like suns are just grinding them down. Clips need a spark.
I’m loving it, Clips need to stay in the mud LMFAOOO
IMHO, if Kawhi was relatively healthy, the Clips would win it all (given Nets & Lakers out already).
oh yeah no question.
Great flop by Bev…this series is a masterclass in exquisite NBA level flopping…
NBA turning into a worse version of soccer LMFAOOOo
LOL…George does his usual push off, and CP3 flops to get the call…but it was the right call. Don’t pull that stuff on CP3…
Feels like Suns v Bucks. Suns can counter Giannis?
I hope so!!!! that series would rule!!!!
Sign me up. Heard nothing but good things about him. Also, Doncic loves him….lol.
https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1408852376342216707?s=20
THATS RIGHT MIKE!!!!!! COME HOME LUKA!!!!
BUCKAROOO —–WORE THE PONYTAIL // BEARD DURING MY COLLEGE DAYS —-VIET NAM WAR PROTESTS / ETC —–ALL THOSE SONGS // GROUPS ARE FOREVER ETCHED IN MY MEMORIES—–STEPENWOLF// LED ZEPELIN // DEEP PRUPLE // GRAND FUNK// JAMES GANG // JIMMY HENDRIX// THE DOORS ETC —LATER SPRINGSTEEN// SEGER ——WOULD SHOOT FOR HRS ON HRS “LISTENING TO THE TUNES—PERFECTING MY SHOT “——STILL HAVE THE BEARD —-LACK OF HAIR PREVENTING THE PONY TAIL :-)
i am similarly challenged bro,, did you take many magic carpet rides back in the day ? i am guessing that will be a big 10-4 roger that..
lastly.. willie, waylon or both ?
CM update: Chris, Strugill, or Tyler? or all three?
Sturgill and Jason.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO
HEY BUCKAROO —BY THE WAY IT WAS CHUCK TAYLOR CONVERSE AND BACK THEN THE SCHOOL BOUGHT YOUR SHOES FOR ANY SPORT( PRACTICE SHOES ALSO ) —–I COULD STILL BE A ” 3 PT SHOOTING ASSASIN ” :-)
Schools didn’t buy shoes when I was there.
HaHa: so many kids are slow to learn “never leave old guys open for long shots”.
NOMAD.. are you going to be wearing your beard in a pony-tail when you are on the hardwood ? to match your other long pony-tail hanging down your back ? my imagination is running a little wild, but i think that look is sympatico with the NOMAD persona.. when you are doing your Curry 3 pt practice shots, the music pulsing thru your ear buds will be .. ?? marshall tucker, allman bros, lynyrd, bob seger ? all of above ?
Food for thought:
NBA Draft Steals by Michael C. Wright (ESPN)
Giannis Antetokounmpo: 2013 #15
Devin Booker: 2015 #13
Jimmy Butler 2011 #30
Rudy Gobert 2013 #27
Draymond Green 2012 #35
Nikola Jokic 2014 #41
Kawhi Leonard 2011 #15
Khris Middleton 2012 #39
Donovan Mitchell 2017 #13
Klay Thompson 2011 #11
And five more:
Bam Adebayo (No. 14 in 2017);
Domantas Sabonis (No. 11 in 2016);
Pascal Siakam (No. 27 in 2016);
Nikola Vucevic (No. 16 in 2011);
Zach LaVine (No. 13 in 2014).
Anyone recall what the pre draft commentary on these guys was?
Some of them. Giannis, who could say, super raw, was more like 6’8″ when scouted, no good competition, those guys wash out all the time. Booker more or less came off the bench, hard to get a read on those guys. No one seriously thought Green was skilled enough, and he was undersized. Hell, I remember his college career, I didn’t think he’d make it in the NBA. He got thrown in a perfect situation for his skillset, honestly. If he had been drafted by some other random team, he might be out of the league now. Kawhi was considered… Read more »
I have to disagree with some of this. Kawhi was in the conversation for the Cavs at 4 five days before the draft. Giannis was playing point guard for his greek team but no one believed in the competition level. Gobert was just a lot of really stupid GMs. He was a top five projection most of the year then inexplicably dropped a month before draft.
There was intrigue about Kawhi for sure, but the reason he didn’t go higher was people didn’t know if he’d develop a shot. I look at Barnes this draft, if he were to somehow get his shot together down the line like Kawhi did, he’ll probably be the best player in this draft. He’s a monster at most everything else. Just a crapshoot predicting that.
A major difference between Kawhi and Scottie Barnes:
Kawhi’s college FT%: 74.4
Barnes’ college FT%: 62.1
Projecting Kawhi’s shooting isn’t as far of a leap as it is with Barnes.
Pop agreed to trade one of his favorite players (George Hill) for Kawhi so spurs definitely saw what Kawhi might be. This list is proof you can find top 10 players or MVP candidates basically anywhere in the draft. Kobe was 13 if I recall. But they aren’t consensus sure thing superstars which is why they drop. Of course the flip to that is plenty of consensus top three picks end up busting or underperforming even in strong drafts. Darko was consensus top 3 to name an example. People were hyped on him. Top three doesn’t guarantee anything. Sure you… Read more »
Speak for yourself on Green. I was screaming for the Cavs to take him in Rd 2 that year. Also wanted Klay (or Jonas) over TT. I won’t get into my misses, list is a lot longer.
Mostly spot on on the others, in my recollection.
Picking up on that..I looked at where my top 20 players in history (according to me) were drafted. Five had non-taditional draft histories (Mikan, NBL pre-BAA/NBA draft; Wilt & Oscar were territorial selections, Dr. J went ABA hardship, Moses Malone not eligible for NBA out of high school, 3rd Rd ABA pick), so I replaced them with my next 5.
1st: Kareem (1969), LeBron (2003), Magic (1979), Duncan (1997), Shaq (1992), Dream (1984), Baylor (1958, also drafted in 1956).
2nd: Russell (1956), West (1960), Durant (2007), Pettit (1954).
3rd: Jordan (1984)
4th: Cousy (1950)
5th: Wade (2003)
6th: Bird (1978, played 1 more year in college)
7th: Curry (2009), Havlicek (1962)
——-
12th: Dr. J (1972, already in ABA)
13th: Kobe (1996), Mailman (1985)
———
Round 3 ABA: Moses Malone (not NBA eligible)
If you throw in the next 30 or so (with Gervin (ABA) and Arizin (territorial) excluded, you get:
1st: Kareem, Bron, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Dream, Baylor, Admiral, Walton, Ewing, Davis, AI, Hayes, Worthy.
2nd: Russell, West, Durant, Pettit, Isiah, Barry, Kidd
3rd: Jordan, Harden, McHale, Maravich
4th: Cousy, Paul, Cowens, Schayes, Westbrook
5th: Wade, Barkley, KG, Frazier, Pippen
6th: Bird (surely higher if drafted in 1979)
7th: Havlicek, Curry
8th: S. Jones, W. Reed (Rd 2)
9th: Dirk
———-
13th: Kobe, Mailman
14th: Drexler, Greer
15th: Nash, Kawhi, Giannis
16th: Stockton
17th: Sharman
———–
41st: Jokic
Yup, exceptions to the rule prove the rule!!! LMFAOOOOOO
Top 5 picks >>>>>>>>>>
Feel free to quibble with my top 50 or so, but if you want a guy who can lead you to a title, it is rarely outside the top 5 in a normal draft situation. Bird would not have been 6th in a 1979 draft. That leaves Havlickek & Curry at 7th. Reed at 8th. Dirk at 9th. Kobe at 13. Kawhi at 15.
You can certainly get foundational championship pieces later (Sharman, Parker, Manu). Or all-timers (Mailman, Jokic). But that is rarer.
Keep the pick.
100% only reason I’m intrigued by a trade back is because of the wings projected at 5 and 8… it’s unique opportunity to double dip AND hit a premium position of need.
I totally get the idea to (finally!!) draft an impactful player taller than 6’5″. Especially if we can double dip. It is our biggest position of need.
But the thing we lack most is top tier talent. If Kuminga could shoot at all I might do it. And while guys sometimes learn to shoot well (Ewing, Kawhi, K. Malone) it usually takes a while if it happens at all (Kidd), or is a modest improvement (Bron). Seems like Simmons & Giannis are the more likely outcomes in terms of shooting.
I wasn’t even thinking of Kuminga, I’d personally go Jalen Johnson LMFAOOO but point probably still stands.
But I think he’s worth the risk if you could get a high floor type of wing like Franz Wagner, who’s basically could be penciled in as a solid 3 and D pro for 10 years.
I only think trading out of three is plausible or a question if Mobley and Cade are gone.
oh sorry if I wasn’t clear before, I totally agree with you take the a top talent… figure out rest later… team BPA all the way 100% of time.
I think the top picks versus later picks are way more of a crapshoot these days, because there isn’t the track record of college performances you had during the 60s, 70s, 80s, or even 90s.
With so many one and dones there just isn’t as much to go on barring one of the guaranteed superstar type guys, eg KD, AD, Zion.
I disagree that’s the top 3 are more of a crapshoot these days, I’m inclined to think that there’s a sea-change in the skill level and amount of talent coming into the league these days and the draft classes just becoming deeper as a result.
Also I can’t help but notice that two of the three MVP types we’re talking about were from Europe, and now that NBA is up to speed on Euro-ball they’ve made the necessary adjustment (see: Luka).
Maybe, but luka still didn’t go number one. Also even if the classes are deeper that sort of proves the point. Deeper classes means more opportunities for the gems to slip through and for the top 3 to not be the end all be all. Hell even Green didn’t go to the NCAA which means wider talent pools to draw from and less directly comparable pools. That means harder direct comparisons and more nebulous evaluations overall. Easy when 99% of players are coming from the same pool like in the 50s to late 90s (high schoolers for that brief period).… Read more »
luka still went top 3 tho, that’s still top 5.
it’s really not…. very smart people know how to properly gauge different leagues, i posted such an article that was published years ago taking on that topic.
Pretty much all you need to know is that the NCAA pretty much sucks, and playing in Europe, Australia, or G-League you’re pretty much guaranteed to face as good or better competition.
I guess you should be a gm lol. Seems pretty simple.
LMFAOOOOOOO reminds me of that Terry Bradshaw quote about sports not requiring too much intelligence!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO
Bucks in 5 or 6. I can see Young going nuclear one more time, but they barely won his 48 pt game. If Bogdanivic does not get hot/healthy, the Hawks are toast.
I still think Bucks in 6 most likely. When they’re shooting well from 3, they can blow out just about anyone (36.6% tonight on 41 attempts), but what really smoked the Hawks were all the turnovers that led to easy buckets. Gonna get that with a young team. Any game where Jrue or Middleton can’t hit shots is likely to be a dogfight.
Tonight is exactly how Giannis should try to play every game. Brutalize them around the rim until they shut it down.
Damn. Giannis droppin some sick moves tonight.
Wish they could call this after 3. Just would hate to see any injuries, even to bench guys…
Sorry. Hanging with the fam. But enjoying the asswhoopin
All good man LMFAOOOOO glad you’re still enjoying this Budenholzer clinic!!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO
Bucks finally transcending their coach & playing like we know they can. This is a championship-worthy team.
“Bucks finally transcending their coach” truer words never spoken LMFAOOOOOOOOO
It’s cool to see Jrue playing well again…
he heard the slander and is responding!!! Real hooper!!!
Where’s Nate? He should be here letting the hate flow through him…
Still, Bucks have to play smart, taking a bunch of dumb shots could easily let the Hawks back in it…
LMFAOOOOOOOOO NATE VINDICATED!!!! LMFAOO
Giannis not messing around tonight…
appears that Khris and Jrue locked in too
Trae playing giveaway. Like Steph at his sloppiest…
THANKYOU ROB—-WAS GOING TO POST SOMETHING SIMILAR———FOR SOME OF THE ‘WARTS ” THAT SEXTON HAS —YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE POSITIVES—1)—DURABALITY—SELDOM INJURED —–2) HAS IMPROVED EACH YEAR–MAYBE THIS YEAR HE BECOMES A BETTER PASSER …..3) HARD WORKER —NOBODY WILL OUT WORK THIS KID ……4) ATTITUDE—EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE SOME MINOR INCIDENTS THIS PAST YEAR—STILL THINK HE IS A GOOD TEAMMATE// LOCKERROOM PRESENCE …..5) AGE STILL YOUNG ENOUGH TO IMPROVE// GROW WITH THIS TEAM ………..SO I GUESS WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF CAVS ARE THINKING OF TRADING MAKE SURE WE GET ” VALUE ‘ IN RETURN…DO NOT… Read more »
NOMAD bro.. when you announcing your coming out of retirement ? time to lace up the keds and show em how its done..
Converse All Stars for me
Cheapo foul for Trae there. I hope to god the NBA is serious about cracking down on that garbage.
Thanks to all for their insightful commentary on prospects and trades. This is the most excited I’ve been about the Cavs since Sexton beat the Nets in 2OT! My take on Sexton is that we have to trust the front office. Is he happy here? Is he going to be a pain in the dick if he doesn’t get the max? Or is he a mature young guy that will continue to get better and be a pro? If the answer is more the latter then I think you keep him (and draft for talent). He has improved every year… Read more »
yup, good take Rob agreed.
Here’s discount Kispert LMFAOOOOO:
https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1408534344680062977?s=20
whoever the Cavs decide to draft and if they move Sexton in a trade….they need a scorer either way…if Sexton is gone the Cavs really dont have any other consistent scorers so if they do move him they need something in return and get a rook who can score 15-17/game, not an Okoro 2.0 who comes and goes with double digit games. I mean Lebron just averaged 20.5 his rook year so getting 20 is tough sell but they need scoring and play making badly.
yeah I think declarations about trading Sexton are premature, Cavs aren’t really in a position to get rid of any potential… unless it’s his agent leaking the story LMFAOOOO
AGREE WITH YOU MIKEO—-IF CAVS WERE PICKING 5 OR 6 I WOULD BE LOOKING AT BARNES —JUST THINK MOBLEY / GREEN ARE ‘TOO SURE OF A THING ‘ TO PASS UP —-BUT LIKE ANY DRAFT SOMETIMES IT IS JUST A ‘CRAP SHOT —HOPE AND A PRAYER ‘ ——NOT SURE WHO SAID IT ON THE PODCAST– THIS DRAFT IS A ‘TOP 3 DRAFT’ AS FAR AS STAR POTENTIAL AND THEN IT DROPS OFF—CAVS NEED TO DRAFT A ‘STAR POTENTIAL ” TYPE OF PLAYER !!!
It was probably me and Eli, pretty sure we both think it’s a top 3 draft, we just disagreed on who the third guy was (Green vs. Suggs).
Interestingly, Hollinger said he thinks the Cavs should take Scottie Barnes. If they were picking 4 or 5, it’d be something to consider (and, who knows, Barnes may turn out to be the best player in this draft when looking back in a few years), but probably not going to happen when Mobley/ Suggs/ Green are available.
He’d look good on the Cavs, they just really need scoring.
Hollinger’s lost his touch LMFAOOO…. Barnes can’t shoot or score in the halfcourt and the Cavs’ offense is pathetic. He’s a top 10-ish pick, not a top 3 pick. I think Jalen Johnson and Josh Giddey should be ranked ahead of Barnes.
He’s not even as high on Barnes as some others are. Some people have compared him to Magic Johnson, which is going too far…but that height and playmaking are intriguing for sure…
Absolutely… no question he has star potential. But as he stand now, he’s a role player, could be an elite role player, but without the scoring or any evidence that he could become a scorer, I just don’t think you can count on him as a bucket.
I see something more like Larry Nance Jr… which is great, but then we have to shoehorn another 4/5 into the wing spot than actually scouting legitimate wings like Johnson, Giddey, Wagner, Kuminga, hell even Kispert LMFAOOO
I have more hope that Okoro turns into a scorer than Barnes…. Okoro’s handles and ability to finish with either hand around the basket is something I don’t really see from Barnes’ film.
Okoro’s FTr in college: .551
Barnes’ FTr in college: .338
I am super high on Okoro becoming a scorer…not a 30 point a night guy, but a pretty good scorer…I think he’s gonna be really good.
Yeah, literally the only scary thing about Okoro is his jumper!!!! And it’s kind of weird that it looks beautiful off the dribble and looks godawful in the catch and shoot.
I might even take Moody and Wagner over Barnes, to get a higher floor 3 and D type of player.
WORLD BE FREE—-MAYBE I HAVEN’T HAD ENOUGH “MORNING ‘ COFFEE YET BUT I HAVE TO “RESPECTFULLY ” DISAGREE THAT THERE IS A “MASSIVE ” DROP OFF BETWEEN CADE AND GREEN / MOBLEY —-HAVE TO REMEMBER GREEN PLAYED AGAINST –IN MY OPINION —BETTER ATHLETE’S / COMPETITION IN THE G LEAGUE AND STILL PUT UP SOME PRETTY AWESOME STATS —-JUST WO0NDERING IF HE DID GO TO COLLEGE AND PUT UP STATS LIKE 25PPG// 8 RPG// 5 APG IF WE WOULDN’T NOW BE TALKING ABOUT HIM BEING THE NUMBER 1 PICK—-AGAIN JUST MY OPINION
I totally agree with you about Green’s G-League experience being underrated and as I said, I’ll be thrilled if we get him. I just think it’s the eye-test with Cade. He just looks so supremely calm and in control out there — and has the quality that I think all the greatest players do: he makes everyone on the court — the whole game really — adjust to his unique, idiosyncratic pace.
And on a related point — I’ve been all about Mobley vs. Green, but after listening to Fedor’s podcast, I may be more pro-Suggs. His description of Suggs’ intangibles is really compelling. The kid has that poise, IQ, and leadership of a Lillard, Billups, or Curry. Feel like that would go a long way in the Cavs locker room.
Judging by what I’ve seen and heard online, I do think Cavs fans are underrating Suggs. I disagree with people who say he can’t score, but go on to say they rather have Barnes???? Give me Suggs over Barnes all day, Suggs at least has a chance to become a scorer.
The draft really complicated our offseason. I nean, sitting at 5-7, you are kooking at plugging Kuminga or Barnes into SF and re-signing Allen, and deciding on Sexton’s extension, and trying to get more out of Kev, and if Okoro is a SG or SF. Now, you cannot throw 15-20 mil at Allen if you draft Mobley, can you? Unless you think Mobley can play the 4? Perhaps he can. And while Okoro-LNJ-Mobley-Allen defensive units are fun to think about, Mobley at the 4 means Love HAS to play some 5, and LNJ a lot of 3. Do we think… Read more »
Hart is the other option. Keeping Allen & Hart AND drafting Mobley is spending WAAAY too much at the 5. Plus Mobley, Kabengele, and Allen are all pretty skinny 5’s. I like to have at least one beefy 5 on the roster.
Now if Houston takes Mobley, we then take Green (or Suggs). Which means you cannot throw $20 million at Sexton to be a bench scorer, can you? If he’ll accept that role, and salary, great. If not, you gotta move him.
Drafting Green/Suggs would also mean our last 4 top 10 picks will all have been guards. Or guys 6’5″ and under (I see Okoro as a guard). How not smart is that?
I mean, we had Love & Nance, and TT/Drummond/Allen at C. So I get not taking a big. But a F/wing with some size? Who can score or playmake? We are lacking.
So, does Kolby decide to double down on Sexland, trade back for more assets, and take Barnes/Kuminga?
Green is supposedly listed as 6’6”. So there is that though he has more of a guards frame/build currently. Dunno how accurate g league heights are. If he is actually 6’6” that is legit size.
6’6″ seems a little…err…optimistic to me. I do think he’s legit 6’5″…really seems like the same height as KPJ, but skinnier…
I don’t think Mobley significantly affects what you do with Allen. Allen holds too much value to just lose straight up. Re-signing Allen allows you to bring Mobley off the bench year 1. I’d be a big fan of that. Bigs typically take longer to develop. If by year 2 (or whenever) Mobley has become the obvious starter, Allen should have decent trade value. Obviously its a risk Allen or Mobley get disgruntled with this plan, but you can deal with that then.
Man, just indulged an alternative universe impulse where we have the #1 and watched Cade highlights. I want to trade #3, future first, Colin, Darius, Kevin Love’s carcass, the ghost of LBJ, Z’s jersey in the rafters, everything for him. Dude is gonna be one of the greats.
Like everything I’ve seen about Suggs, Green, Mobley and excited for any of them but the dropoff between Cade and them is massive.
yup, 3 was nice, but still wanted #1 LMFAOOOOOO