Live Thread: Kings vs. Cavs
2017-01-25
Starting lineup for the Kings: Boogie Cousins, Kosta Koufos, Garrett Temple, Arron Afflalo, and Darren Collison
Starting lineup for the Cavs: LeBron, TT, Shump, Love, K.I.
Will be interesting to see if LeBron continues his strike on playing defense or if the Cavs come out to put the Kings away early. Meanwhile, the Kings are 2-8 in the last 10, but are 2.5 games out of a playoff spot in the West. So, theoretically, they still have something to play for.
Of course LeBron would have a . negative PM, he is with the reserves that only know how to shoot 3 points. Kyrie is with the starters. The fact that Tom Pestak had to write that kilometric apology for Kyrie’s atrocious defense and passing speaks for itself. Terrence Jones played center, so he was Thompson’s man. He got going because Thompson had to over help Kyrie in those pick and roll situations. Not to excuse LeBron, but he got Jones on a switch . Watch the replay of the Pelican games and see how Kyrie compromised the Cavs entire defense… Read more »
Bah. It doesn’t matter if you get switched on a guy you still have to guard him, and much of the time Montejunas was at center against TT and Frye with LBJ at the four against Jones. Cool your vitriol.
Here’s further proof of your inaccuracy:
Kyrie since coming back from his hamstring injury:, averaging a PM of +2.2, (and +6 tonight, not averaged in)
LeBron since Kyrie came back: -2.8, (and -1 tonight, not averaged in). And yeah, maybe it’s cause he’s playing too many minutes but the evidence does not back your assertions . Kyrie hasn’t been the issue. It’s been LeBron.
Also Kyle Korver was -17 while iman Shumpert was +5. MASSIVE brain fart by Lue.
That’s a very selective stat citation. Let’s talk stat then. The eye test validates analytics . Kyrie is among the very worst defenders in the league- 417 out of the 432 players rated. Another metrics shows that 91 percent of the players are better than him on defense. He is the worst at defending the PNR, the worst in navigating the opposing picks and screens. Among point guards he is the absolute worst -surrendering 26 points per 48 minutes on 54% true shooting percentage. Opponents gets a PER of 21.0 against him, again the worst among point guards. You talk… Read more »
So you give me stats with no context. I have no idea what timeframe from you’re talking about with your dataset. My stats were specifically chosen to coincide with the Cavs’ slump. I’ve never ever said Kyrie was a good defender. In fact I’ve done a dozen+ articles and podcasts killing Kyrie about his D. But the difference here is that Kyrie has never shown the ability to be a consistently plus defender during the regular season. LeBron has. Asking someone to do something they’ve never done (Kyrie to be a consistently good regular season defender) is much more radical… Read more »
Ok,let’s do away with the stats I presented and confine our discussions to the latest slide. In the last three games where the Cavs lost, the Spurs’ Murray, Pelicans’ Holiday and Kings’ Collison all had their personal season best game. Murray tripled his season average, Holiday more than doubled his season average and Collison doubled his average.All three also far exceeded their season average in assists. They are all point guards guarded by Kyrie. What does that tell you? Is it asking too much for Kyrie to at least hold these average point guards to their well..average game? You’re telling… Read more »
First, assists are more of a function of open teammates than poor on the ball defense (the discussion is obviously more nuanced, but whatevs). Second, the Cavs were bleeding points when Bron was on the floor and outscoring the Pels when Kyrie was on. That’s the only argument I need. Third, where do you get this notion that I’m soft on Kyrie? I’ve been banging the drum on Kyrie being a crappy defender for YEARS. Here’s a google search for you. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nate+smith+www.cavstheblog.com+kyrie+irving+defense Tom and I were writing about this before ESPN stole the idea were inspired to publish RPM from… Read more »
Jru Holiday had 22 points in the first half alone and you didn’t see Kyrie played bad defense? You saw Bron not do anything yet you failed the many times Kyrie got torched on simple backdoor cuts? I ask again, is it asking too much for Kyrie to at least play average defense? Cutting a slack on Kyrie for being Kyrie-bad on defense is like excusing the devil for being the devil that he is. You banged the drum on Kyrie before as you say, then why not now when he should have been a much better defender at this… Read more »
He shouldn’t be leading the league in minutes. That’s the entire point. He’s playing so long he’s too exhausted to play D and it’s costing the Cavs even more than KI’s crappy D.
I hear you, Nate. But then again, if Kyrie does not compromise the Cav’s defense the way he is ( and putting more efforts to facilitate and playmake), then LBJ does not have to play so much minutes. If Kyrie puts more efforts to keep his man in front of him and navigate screens well, the frontline would not have to cover so much grounds in providing help defense and be in a better position to rebound. LBJ is touting Kyrie to be a future MVP, was he wrong?
Meh. LeBron’s minutes and Kyrie’s d are not dependent functions.
Assuming without necessarily conceding that you are right, how does Kyrie, a supposed superstar and future MVP, buy LBJ more rest?
Actually I think the thing that chafes me about your response more than anything, why am I the one responsible for writing about that? Why don’t you give us a film and statistical breakdown of how bad Kyrie Irving’s defense is? Email me if you’d like to publish it on the blog.
Would love to but I am not tech savvy enough to give you the film. But I assure, I watch every Cavs game on league pass.
FYI, You can watch and link to clips of every play and every game on NBA stats, either through the box score or the play-by-play. And you’re right. I went through the film from this game, and you’re right. Kyrie’s D was atrocious. Worse than Bron’s.
http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0021600671/
Sheesh….You are telling me to cool my vitriol when you are the one ranting and raging on LBJ at every turn. Your Montejunas-at-center argument does not hold water as Terrence Jones starting at center scored 12 points before Montejunas even entered the game with about 5 minutes left. That’s 12 points in 7 minutes, no wonder he got in a rhythm. Jru Holiday scored nine points and had 3 assists in the first quarter alone. The Pelicans scored 35 points in the first quarter alone by mostly putting Kyrie and Thompson in pick-n-roll plays.
Nate Smith, your obsession to absolve Kyrie Irving at the expense of demonizing LeBron is disgusting. Kyrie has been turning average point guards like Jrue Holiday and Darren Collison into Jerry West. You counted the times LeBron didn’t play defense against the Pelicans when the Holiday scored the very first point off Kyrie’s typical atrocious defense. Don’t let that 49 points fool you and everybody else…Holiday outplayed him as he got his early and often to set the Cavs’ defensive tone of the night. Part of Terrence Jones getting off was because Thompson was over helping your favorite overdribbler. There… Read more »
Uh, ok. He wasn’t eight feet off his man guarding no one against the Pels, though, like LeBron was. And he’s had positive PM compared to LeBron’s negative PM in many of the last several games. Terrence Jones going off was on Bron, not Thompson or Kyrie. You can’t just stand back and let a guy who’s hot shoot wide open jump shots.
And go read Tom PEstak’s article on Kyrie and analytics.
And I’ve never demonized LeBron at the expense of Kyrie. Anyone who reads me with any regularity knows I’ve ripped Kyrie just as much over the years for lax defense.
Wow. Just checked back for the result, and this is crazy. The Cavs are actually crumbling right now. These past two weeks probably killed off Lebron’s MVP chances. Woah, crazy.
Don’t know exactly what’s going on. Lebron having his annual prima donna spell. Post all-star break every year he just gets over it and tears the league apart again.
As Lebron goes, the Cavs go. Ask me, and they have enough on the roster with a healthy JR.
Not even too confident on beating the Nets at this point…almost think they should rest LBJ, but they need a win pretty badly at this point…
I think they’d play better without him. If I’m everyone else on the team, I’m pissed as hell at him and would kick some ass just to make him eat crow.
Yeah. His two week vacation is a week over due
Korver was awful from the left corner. Big reason Cavs lost.
Do you regret giving away the 1 st rounder yet, or is 9 games (even at 3-6) not enough?
I don’t know. I don’t really see it as Korver’s fault. Lue played him too long.
Lue says “it wasn’t fair” to Shump to put him back in after sitting for so long. Total b.s
What?
I am sick of Ty Lue saying, “I have to watch he film. I don’t remember what happened.” Here’s why you blew a 10 point lead: you played the scrubs too long.
Yeah, that doesn’t inspire confidence…
I would imagine Griffin might be having a few tough meetings with Lue soon, if he hasn’t already.
Ty Lue “can’t remember” what happened with the blown 10 pt lead. Disengenous
we were what for foul shooting ——think that had more to do with the loss than korver ( not saying that he is exempt with his poor play ) ——it is a “train wreck ” right now and not real fun to watch —will probably get worse before ( if it does ) get better —-yeah agree with you nate —what’s up with no shump —–” criminal minds “
Shump fills it up for the first three quarters then gets no run in the fourth and barely any in the fourth. That’s criminal.
Rarely agree with Goldhammer, but he’s not wrong here.
Played 34 minutes, too…was something wrong with Shump…?
don’t even think a ” bowling trip ” would help at this point —(-notice small letters )–that is how bummed I am !!
Lue is trying to find a lineup that works. It was only a matter of time for the scouting report to catch up on this team. LeBron is right, they need another playmaker.
How is a playmaker going to help them with their free throws, getting back on defense, or stopping guys like DeMarcus cousins? They didn’t lose this game due to playmaking, they lost it due to rebounding, stops, free throws, and effort.
i wonder if ty lue thinks its like soccer where hes only allowed a few substitutions per game
Korver killed the Cavs in OT with his awful rotation on the three, and then throwing the ball away. And of course missing a wide open three
If only substitutions were allowed in OT
Yeah, that was the worst coached game of Lue’s career – at least in the regular season.
It would get him fired if not winning last year. A lot of people should be thankful to Bray for being a dumb 12 year old meathead.
Lue made some terrible substitutions from the 4th quarter on. Let the bench blow the 10 pt lead, and then the Korver substitution
Hornets-Warriors is a good game right now….
Kardashian Curse… I’m so irritated. Good night CtB.
This team definitely needs another effing playmaker….just add prime Michael Jordan, and they’re set…
I’m no longer sure Lue knows what he is doing.
17-34 from the FT. That’s ball game.
Agree. Free throws and turnovers cost us this game along with Lue’s coaching
Unbelievable.
Gosh we suck. Another deserved loss.
Or call timeout.
Have to have a 3. Or a quick two.
Game.
SHOOT THE GD BALL, KORVER!
Congratulations Cavaliers… You made your bed, now lie in it.
Korver makes a mistake there. Why no Liggins when we need a stop. Is he hurt? Korver messed that up.
This should be the real turning point win or lose.
Not sure it’s worth it to expend all this energy when they have a lead in the east. Too late now.
Terrible D by Korver
17 missed FTs…what a crapshow….
Why are you subbing in Korver for defense? Like seriously.
I hope Kyrie sits here. Liggins, Shump, James, TT + 1.
Okay everyone, again, “How important are free throws?” Very, very important….
Damn. Everyone missing. 17-34 FTs. Love is 3-6.
17-34 from the line. What. The. Clunk.
Klove – the anti-clutch
I’ll take that call. It was a foul. Come on Kev.
DeMarcus totally bails out the Cavs with a dumb foul
Lebron’s careless passing. Unbelievable.