Point Four-ward: Boogie to the Deadline
2017-02-22Year after year as the trade deadline approaches, the rumors intensify and internet GMs ponder and debate potential, franchise changing moves. This year, the trade season has yielded some early fruit with some big moves happening well before this Thursday’s deadline. Early in January, the Cavs made a move, nabbing crucial floor spacer and rim rocker, Kyle Korver. Then, the Nuggets and Trailblazers exchanged big men and picks. Finally, just this last week, the Raptors traded for Serge Ibaka and the Pelicans acquired DeMarcus Cousins in one of the more unexpected blockbuster trades in recent memory. It seems like the whole league is “boogie”-ing towards improving their team while they can, whether it be for the long term or the immediate future.
1. The Kings made a deal… and may have lost big
Boogie Cousins is a very talented big man with some on the court antics that have proven detrimental to himself and his team. He complains to the refs all the time, and is already at the maximum threshold for technical fouls for the season, forcing Cousins to face a game suspension for every other tech going forward. That said, the return the Kings got for one of the best big men in the game was very small. To put it in perspective, the Cavs got an unprotected first round pick for Mo Williams (the first time around), while the Kings received a top-3 protected pick for Cousins. With GM and former player Vlade Divac going as far to admit that he “had a better offer two days ago,” the Kings look foolish in the aftermath.
Source familiar w/ Kings’ thinking: "Vivek thinks Buddy [Hield] has Steph Curry potential.” Am told that fixation was a key driver in deal.
— Baxter Holmes (@Baxter) February 20, 2017
The owner of the Kings, Vivek Ranadive, has long had a fascination with the Golden State Warriors (at one point he was even a minority owner of that team). He once even called former first round pick, Nik Stauskas, a player who “shoots like Steph Curry with the size of Klay Thompson.” He clearly has his own take on the players he likes, and his opinion of Buddy Hield was on display in this deal. At the end of the day, the owner writes the checks and has the ultimate power to make the decisions, but it’s got to be hard for others in the Kings front office to stomach. You hire the guys, spend the money on technology and research, and then try to build a culture only to have the final say get hijacked. It’s also a sad day for the Sacramento fan base, as they now have only the draft lottery to look forward to, in the hopes that the next star player for their team can be found (which would be a bit easier if the Kings hadn’t already mortgaged some of their future picks in the Stauskas trade with the 76ers).
2. Players aren’t the only things changing
The Lakers, who lost out in the race for Cousins reportedly over their reluctance to include first round pick Brandon Ingram in the deal, decided to shake things up, firing long time General Manager Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss. While the Lakers have been disappointing over the last few years, many have jumped to say this signals “rock bottom” for Laker Nation. It certainly seemed like the once proud organization had gone too far off the rails under the leadership of Jim Buss, resulting in his sister Jeannie taking the reins and naming Magic Johnson as the President of Basketball Operations going forward.
The Hall of Fame former Laker player, has been on the record with some very interesting takes regarding his team. Johnson’s assessment that Byron Scott was a good coach and the Lakers would challenge for the playoffs the last few seasons is an indication that his eye for talent and management may not be as strong as his on-court vision. The Cavs and Lakers have been intertwined a bit over recent years, with the Lakers hiring two consecutive coaches whom the Cavs fired (Mike Brown and Byron Scott), and a huge (and widely questioned) free agent signing of Timofey Mozgov this past summer. While the change of direction at the top may be a relief to Laker Nation, it remains to be seen if the decisions will be smarter going forward. Considering the move to shake up the front office happened two days before the trading deadline, it’s either a sign that the Lakers truly understand the gravity of the situation or the same kind of knee-jerk thinking that put LA in the cap-binding position of paying Timofey Mozgov and Luol Deng $140M over the next 3+ years. We should get the answer quickly, as President Magic has already reportedly traded sixth man, Lou Williams, to the Houston Rockets for swingman, Corey Brewer, and an unprotected first round pick.
3. Are the Cavs opening to moving Shumpert?
With the Cavs already making some moves, more activity may or may not be coming via the trade route. With conflicting reports of the Cavs looking to deal versus exploring the buyout market, it’s tough to get a read on what is truly happening inside the Cavs’ war room. However, the one trade chip on the team rumored to be available to potentially improve the Cavs roster is Iman Shumpert.
Will say this about #Cavs: Opposing execs have told me Iman Shumpert is clearly available and there is indeed interest around league.
— Sam Amico (@AmicoHoops) February 21, 2017
A trade of Shumpert would seem to indicate that the Cavs feel they have enough wing players to make their run to a repeat. With the acquisitions of Korver and Derrick Williams (although still temporary, and maybe not a true wing), and the expected return of J.R. Smith in the near future, the Cavs may be willing to deal Shump for a playmaker or a big (or both) to help deepen the bench. For me, the Cavs would have to get a wing back in any Shumpert deal. He has been a solid starter, shooting much better this season from deep while harassing opposing point guards, shooting guards and small forwards. Although Shumpert’s defensive impact may be a bit overrated, the Cavs aren’t exactly lighting up that side of the court, and may have gone “All-In” on outscoring their foes.
4. The Cavs could make a move regardless
I'd be shocked if the Cavaliers didn't make a trade before the deadline. They have aggressively pursued win-now moves.
— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) February 21, 2017
The Cavs have a history of making deadline deals. Last year the Cavs netted Channing Frye en route to the Finals. The year before, Waiters Island departed The Land to help facilitate the arrival of Shumpert, J.R. Smith, and Timofey Mozgov. This year, the Cavs have already traded Mike Dunleavy for Kyle Korver and picked up Derrick Williams on a 10-day contract (a second one is reportedly in the works). However, the Cavs now have an empty roster spot (possibly two if they ultimately let Williams walk). Regardless of whether a trade materializes (the Cavs let a couple exceptions expire on Feb 20th), or if they pick up a player after a buyout, Cleveland will more than likely make a move to have a full (15 players) and hopefully healthy roster in their title defense.
I suspect #Cavs will find post-trade deadline buyout market to be more beneficial than another trade. Their deal came when they got Korver.
— Sam Amico (@AmicoHoops) February 21, 2017
Regardless of what happens in the next 24-48 hours, Cleveland Internet GMs should still be pretty comfortable with this roster, since it’s still one that has the best player in the world to defend the Larry O’Brien trophy.
Go Cavs.
Trade Deadline thread is up…
PELS LOOKING TO GET RID OF AJINKAS CONTRACT—-COULD YOU GET HIM SOMEWHAT CHEAP ?
Fits into the Dunleavy exception but unless we’re getting Frazier out of some deal I don’t particularly want to make that deal.
We are not getting Frazier. Also, not getting Tyreke. I’ll be surprised if the Cavs make any moves. As is this team is great.
Ya, I know we aren’t getting Frazier. Not since their big trade. As long as we don’t trade any assets for DWill I suppose I’m content.
YEAH JMAY DIDN’T HAVE MY MORNING COFFEE ——PART OF ME THINKS AINGE IS GOING TO PULL A LAST MINUTE MAJOR TRADE SO OTHER TEAMS CAN’T RESPOND TO IT —-JUST A HUNCH
I’m starting to think that Ainge doesn’t have the Cajones for a move. If PG13 won’t resign with anyone but LA or Indy then that basically leaves Butler, who doesn’t help the C’s from beyond the arch at all. We shall see.
It’s so much fun to be NBA Champs.
Are we just using this as the trade deadline thread?
We’ll put a new one up…
tick-tock—-tick—tock—–doesn’t appear cavs are going to make any moves —just glad we are returning to the regular season again —-GO CAVS !!
To be fair, the NBA as a whole has been pretty silent this morning. Are you sick? Lowercase letters don’t suit you NOMAD.
Top 5 lineups of NBA with 100+ mins. Cavs have a 2nd best line up and Shumpert is not in that line up, Liggins is.
:large
Interesting. How did you get this info?
It is pretty obvious that the Cavs play better with Liggins on the floor, but he often does not play. One reason might be to showcase Shump as much as possible before the trading deadline. If I was coach, in the playoffs I would start the lineup above each half, and about four or five minutes in, put in Korver for Liggins.
Keep posting this good stuff, and ignore Cols, who is probably working up something nasty to say at this very moment.
Cols will post something with the word ‘fraud’ or ‘fraudulent’ no doubt. The Cavs still shouldn’t give up Shump for anything but a good wing defender, though.
That is from nba.com
For all of NBA:
http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/#!?CF=MIN*GE*100&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1
Just for Cavs:
http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/#!?CF=MIN*GE*100&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&TeamID=1610612739
Only 3 lineups played 100+ mins for Cavs. Your big 4 is part of all the three lineups. Lineups ranked by 5th player are Liggins, JR and Shumpert respectively.
Sounds like the Cavs are really trying to get Deron Williams…if they somehow trade Shump for him in some crappy deal, I’m going to scream…
Griffin is smart
Agreed. Shump (26, 2 years left) for D-Will (32, UFA, always hurt) is hella-stupid. I hope this one is smoke. FWIW, Shump was at practice today.
https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/834551404270194688
??????
Why do the Cavs not try Quinn cook?! What is the point of not trying him?
Probably because Kay Felder looks like Isaiah Thomas when he goes down to the D-League… Cavs have had plenty of time to look at QC… They must just prefer someone with experience… But who knows? Maybe he’s the next Yogi Ferrell…
I suppose if Lue won’t let felder dribble he def won’t let cook…but man we are thin for the coming month
It’s not lues fault felder isn’t that good this year.
Quinn Cook still available…
https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/834558900842151936
https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/834560029189615617
Ilyasova has played for like 4 teams over the last 2 seasons lol.
That’s dumb. Sixers need spacing, not more big men to clog the lane. Ersan actually is a decent stretch four.
They’ll probably buy out or waive Splitter… deal was for the picks and Irsan is to old to be a part of the rebuild in Philly… Hawks probably just wanted some additional shooting…
Stinks the Cavs don’t have much in the way of trade bait. Drummond would be awesome lol.
Eh, he’s just a taller and more foul prone version of TT…
And not nearly as high of basketball IQ.
And worse defensively.
TY LUE’S COMMENTS ON SANDERS ” WHAT I SAW ILIKED —IF HE STILL WANTS TO (AND ENJOYS ) PLAYING BASKETBALL –HE STILL HAS THE SKILL SET “
My gut is that’s just Ty being nice and they won’t sign him unless there’s nobody interesting after buy outs…
Agreed. Lue won’t cut on anyone. He’s too classy.
Sounds like Larry Sanders was heading to LA this afternoon… wonder if that means Cavs aren’t signing him…
Probably…
I think it was more of a kick the tires deal. Once the deadline passes & we still have needs we may circle back to him with a real workout vs other players.
If the Cavs aren’t willing to take a flyer on him I’m pretty confident he’s nowhere near ready to play. Or they think they’re going to get Bogut or something.
Going by his tweets and all, he still thinks very high of him. It is a risk for a contending team to get someone with that attitude, let alone he would be take time to find rhythm. It has to be a desperate team that will take flyer on him, IMO.
It’s not a risk for the Cavs… and they’re not exactly desperate… just doing due dilligence as they should
I do want PBev mostly for his ability to take out opposing stars (like westbrook a few years back). We need a new Delly!
All snark aside, FRFF (frontrunningfraudfan, aka warriorsfan), the Rockets are trying to build up their team to defeat the team that thinks they are light years ahead but have only one title when they played an entire post-season without facing any team’s starting PG. But I digress. The point is that the Rockets want Shumpy because they think it will help them defeat the royal smugness. The Cavs want to keep Shump because it will help them beat the arrogant squad. The fact that the Rockets are willing to give up Beverly to get Shump in order to beat that… Read more »
Just correcting you on one thing…the Cavs apparently want Bev, and the Rockets aren’t going to give him up. So they apparently are not ‘willing to give him up’.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/02/cavs_not_interested_in_rockets.html#incart_big-photo
“The Cavs have drawn plenty of interest in guard Iman Shumpert has a potential trade piece, but the team is not interested in any offer its received.”
Of course the Cavs would like Beverly just not at the expense of Shump.
https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/834469469770559488
Do you realize how immature your ‘fraud’ obsession is, talking about warriors all the time. I mean, do you dream them day and night. If anything, you should thank warriors for your city’s only championship in like 100 years.
I don’t have to dream. I can just watch Irving hit that three over the fake MVP to win the title over and over again.
https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/834507803050000384
Marcus Thornton also involved….
Good deal for both teams. Upgrades the Wizards bench from trash to recycling.
I could be wrong here. I just don’t see how Beverly helps vs the only team that can challenge us. But maybe he helps and we have enough SGs with JR and Korver?
Pbev couldn’t make life hell for Curry?Sometimes your lack of imagination is… disturbing.
Just don’t force choke me.
PBev is the best Curry defender. We are always worried Bev will hurt Curry. But then again, some fans here think Curry is a ‘fraud’, so he will ‘fraud'(may be pay refs just like he paid millions to vote him to all stars, 2 MVPs, all NBA and Olympic team) his way to great game against anyone :-)
Says the guy who thought the key to beating the fraudulent team last year was Delly. It’s OK to admit you are wrong. And yes, no one would vote Curry the MVP anymore after watching him fail the last two Finals.
Delly was the key, everyone other than you here realizes. Cavs were better with Delly than Kyrie the year before too, that is just the fact. It is also fact that you thought Mike Dunleavy replaced Delly and Cavs still trying to replace Delly.
Don’t you remember this from last year Cols?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCFLm0LU8a8
I wouldn’t trade Shump for Beverly.
Neither would the Rockets, so you’re safe…
I would
We’d get older and worse. Shump is playing well and is useful against that fraudulent team out west. I’m not sure that Beverly would see much run there.
Also, even if Beverly was better, it would take until next year for him to fit in.
I agree but maybe the Cavs want to have more cap space for an additional move later. But talent wise, Shump is better and is not even close if you ask me.
Larry Sanders tweeted this… assuming post workout for Cavs…
https://twitter.com/l8show_thegoat/status/834485651638730752
What dies this mean?
An hourglass? He seems to tweet a lot of nonsense, so might not mean anything.
Maybe his personal logo: SANDers in the hour glass.
Or, he is WAITING for the word if he is getting a 10 day.
I guess the hour glass means that now he has to wait for the Cavs feedback ….. Maybe lol
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/834486497332051968
Shump for pbev is a good deal for both teams. Gives the Cavs a tough minded ball handler who can shoot and be backup point and gives Houston more size on the wing to play with Lou Williams on the second unit. I love pbev but he is hurt quite often.
Not enough… and Rockets saying they don’t want to part with Bev anyway…
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18741794/houston-rockets-covet-iman-shumpert-cleveland-cavaliers-want-patrick-beverley
Hmm. Interesting
Salaries don’t match. Rockets would need to add a player or two worth roughly $1.7 million, min. FWIW, Griff may think along these lines. First, the #2 PG spot (#3 really) won’t get that much run in the POs. It is more of a spot to save tread on Kyrie & James’ tires during the 82. Second, we actually have some guys who can do it if Lue would play them (Felder, Liggins, McRae). Yes, we’d take a hit during some regular season games. Still, we have players who can do it to some extent. If the goal is to… Read more »
WOULD NOT TRADE SHUMP EVEN UP FOR BEVERLY—-NEED ANOTHER PLAYER WITH IT
Why would the Rockets do that deal? Beverly is a nice player, he’s quite good defensively, a decent ball handler and streaky shooter. In fact he’s very similar to Shump if you ignore the fact that Beverly doesn’t have a web-site dedicated to stopping him from dribbling.
Beverley is better than Shump overall, and the Rockets love him…no way I see them trading for Shump straight up…they may not be interested in trading him at all…
https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/834469469770559488
Makes sense….. Good defender, can shoot threes, and has experience being a ball handler/playmaker before Harden took those reigns this year. Oh, his contract is super friendly too as he makes less than Shump and it goes down year over year
Would you make this trade? It’s a tough call for me. I imagine the Cavs would want/need another player.
I think I would. It would depend who else would be included but I’m okay with the idea of Beverley for Shumpert swap. Beverley is smaller but he could guard 1’s and 2’s (although he’s a bit smaller).
If JR was healthy, I’d have less reservations.
Tough call. Wish the Cavs could get Bev while keeping Shump, but that’s not too realistic…
Steve Aschburner talked about Sanders and the danger of his recreational weed use… his last name makes him sound like an expert on the subject…
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/02/22/steve-aschburner-even-with-a-tight-knit-cavs-locker-room-larry-sanders-should-be-a-concern/
what is wrong with recreational weed?
Nothing if it’s from his couch without work. Quite a bit for a drug tested professional athlete.
Nothing, unless you want someone to do some work.
https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/834454983105916928
Maybe if they could have gotten PBev and Montrezl in return…
Wouldn’t even make sense without Beverly, but I don’t see this happening…
Especially now that they’ve traded for Lou Williams…
Give us Ariza…..
For Shump? Why?
It’s almost destiny….. Ariza was the free agent LeBron wanted in 09-10.
Looks like Cavs do want Beverly, which makes sense since he plays great defense and can shoot threes…..
Also, he is a better ball handler and his contract declines in value over the next 2-3 years….
According to most of the reports, Sanders is just being evaluated for what type of shape he’s in and not actually playing against anyone… sounds more like a rigorous physical before Cavs would sign him… interesting
That actually makes sense though. I mean Sanders hasn’t played in forever so of course his skills aren’t going to be great right now, but if he’s in good enough shape that means he’s actually serious about playing.
Although, I’d assume they’d just be signing him to a 10-day, so what would be the point if his skills aren’t that good right now? I guess we’ll see what happens…
Yeah. I really don’t know, It may just be they don’t mind the risk because of the upside. They haven’t replaced Birdman and Sanders can probably do that with the potential to be better.
Boylan worked with him in Milwaukee too, so that probably holds some weight…
I feel like I’m missing something…
Same here
Cavs are interested in Bogdanovic? Why?
http://www.espn.com/blog/nba/rumors/post/_/id/41253/nba-rumor-central-will-nets-deal-bojan-bogdanovic
He’s better than Delly shooting the ball. But yeah, do not need or want.
Why is Delly your default baseline? They don’t even play the same position… I think you’re obsessed with Delly…
It is unhealthy. I need to quit.
That cured meat can be pretty high in sodium… er… wrong Deli.
Possible 3-team deal which Cavs lose Shump and replace with Bogdanovich? What’s that guy’s salary?
Bogdo is not really a defensive guy tho… more of a pure scorer… 36% from three
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zd7s7lp with Minnesota sending a pick to Brooklyn. I’m not saying it makes the most sense…
How did you get that to work with Cavs taking on about $3M more than they’re sending out?
Honestly, I’m as surprised as you are.
Oh, it’s the Trade Exception…
I don’t think they can combine that though… would have to be separate deals I think…
Rubio for Liggins, Shump, McCrae, Wolves send McCrae and pick for Bog, Bog comes to Cavs for Exception? I’m starting to confuse myself. This is why I don’t work for DG and DG…
Not sure why they don’t show that part.
He makes $3.5 and this is the last year of his deal…
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/834420211768053760
What exactly is a “protein binge” or is that code for HGH?
You assumed correctly, Cols…
Pretty funny though.
https://twitter.com/mcten/status/834417875737858048
Not sure how he negotiated it though… you know since his agent is now the GM of the Lakers…
If the Jazz are serious about re-acquiring Deron Williams, then maybe Mack or the other young guy, Neto, fall out.
Or they go back to Dallas and possibly get waived or bought out…
If he signs… I hope he still wears the dope specs on the court…
http://img.scout.com/sites/default/files/stories/larry_sanders.jpg
This was the look I also had back in the day.
Wonder if he ever had an endorsement from an optical company with this fashionable look?
NOT A BAD IDEA —THE OTHER JASON —AFTERALL –UNCLE DAN IS A CASINO OWNER –WORTH THE GAMBLE
Maybe I think about it wrong, but if we’re truly entertaining SANDERS, wouldn’t we be better served by locking him in to a 2 year minimum contract? That way if he does turn out to be SANDERS!, the cavs get some payoff instead of him just walking next year when we can’t afford him? And if he doesn’t, well what’s a couple $mill
HOW ABOUT WE MAKE A TRADE WITH THE KNICKS AT HALFTIME TOMORROW—–MELO CAN PLAY FOR KNICKS 1ST HALF—-CAVS THE 2ND ( YES TONGUE IN CHEEK )
As a long time Laker basher, I couldn’t be more pleased that they are under Magic’s stewardship…
Why? Magic has been pretty successful at stuff. He’s smart, he knows what he doesn’t know and can get pretty much whoever he wants to work for him.
The challenge will be to get him to surround himself with smart people. Pelinka is definitely a start but Magic has had some terrible takes….
I’m pretty skeptical of Larry Sanders being able to help at all. He hasn’t played in 2 or three years. But he can probably be at least 80% of what Birdman gave us.
I’m skeptical as well. But I would say there probably isn’t a better place in this league for him to succeed. An old coach in Boylan, a team full of hard-working vets, James Jones as a counselor, your ultimate leader in LeBron, no pressure to be a cornerstone, and something to work for in a championship and a return to the game.
I agree.
Birdman brings potential intimidation just by sitting on the bench. For example, Braymond would not be kicking anyone when Birdman is in sight, for fear of being exposed as a big wuss bully.
Birdman came from a trailer park to become a nice piece for Miami during their Lebron years. Started with a 10 day. It’s worth gambling on the chance that Sanders has something left in the tank if nothing else is available.
PLUS IF HE AGREES/ AND WE SIGN HIM TO A 10 DAY CONTRACT WE CAN SEE HOW THE BUYOUT PICTURE UNFOLDS / BOGUT COMING HERE OR NOT
RUMORS ( KEY WORD RUMORS ) HAS IT CAVS MIGHT BE TALKING CONTRACT WITH SANDERS —-AGREE WITH YOU ELIJAH FAMALIARITY( BOYLAN ) MIGHT BE GOOD FOR HIM —–ALL WE ARE ASKING IS PROTECT THE RIM/ GRAB SOME REBOUNDS —NOT BE THE FRANCHISE SAVIOR ( WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN TOO MUCH PRESSURE FOR HIM IN MILWAUKEE )
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/834430035499028481
I do not understand this tweet.
You did t read Lowe much.
I do. But I usually skip the parts that aren’t Cavs related…
I think Lowe probably stole the all caps thing from NOMAD…
Regarding Sanders, have to remember that Boylan coached him during his “prime” years.
After we resign DWill, if we sign Larry Sanders do you think he is willing to take a 10day? Would Utah trade Liggins and McCrae plus cash (do we even have any left to trade?) for Mack? That would give us a sudo-versatile wing in DWill, a defense big in Sanders, and a backup PG in Mack.
If Sanders isn’t trash then sure. But he hasn’t played in two years so I don’t know. And yeah, Mack would be an OK addition. As we are though, we are already loaded.
I don’t know if Liggins and McCrae get it done for Utah. As for Sanders, ya he’s a toss-up. Though if he’s moderately effective, I think this fills out the bottom of our bench fairly nicely.
Cavs have a 2018 second.
That would probably do it then. I’d chalk this up to a win if this scenario plays out. Gets us all of our needs without parting with any players of consequence or Osman. Huzzah, I’ll pick up my personal line to Griff and let him know I want it done.
Don’t we assume that Cavs probably offered the AV trade exception (probably more desirable than the Lig/McRae package, and that the 2018 second rounder was either offered and deemed not enough for Utah to part with Mack, or not offered because Cavs thought that would be too much and they didn’t engage further?
Certainly something I didn’t think about. See above. Darn it EG, why must you poke so many holes?
Sorry JMay!
Why would Utah prefer the Lig/McRae combo over the AV exception?
Ya, Idk, maybe Utah held off because they thought they might get a better offer for Mack. If it runs closer to the deadline without a better deal maybe they get more willing to part with it.
Larry Sanders in town for a workout. Worth a 10 day IMHO. If he shows a glimpse of his former self, another. He ‘s got 2 months to find a groove before POs. Potential payoff next year as well.