Podcast Episode 140: Offseason Madness
2017-06-26https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-140-offseason-madness
EvilGenius and Nate Smith, still reeling from as blustery an offseason week as ever we’ve experienced, teamed up in the podcast booth to dissect the proceedings since the Finals. At the top of the topic list? David Griffin’s firing. Did Dan Gilbert have a plan in place, and if so why is it taking so long to execute? Or did things fall apart at the drop of a hat, with Gilbert scrambling to fill the vacuum?
We tackled the Kevin Love rumors too, draft night, the madness of Phil Jackson, free agency ideas, and so much more.
Listen above, on SoundCloud, iTunes, and Google Play, and as always… GO CAVS!
Chauncey made a counter offer to Dan G.
Really? ???
Might as well. Sure sounds like Gilbert wants Billups more than Billups wants the job.
Celtics should can Ainge and hire Phil Jackson NOW. He’s a proven winner who has built the Knicks into a slumbering powerhouse.
Now Houston becomes a good destination for PG13 too. No more Phil Jackson could mean Carmelo staying there. It seems the Cavs would en up with the same roster.
I wish we had expiring contracts or something of value to give other teams to snag one of these expendable guys that will undoubtedly come to market.
You and me both.
Jerry West blowing it up… wouldn’t be surprised to see Blake wind up in Boston…
Blow it up! Blow it up! I wouldn’t mind Blake in Boston at all. He doesn’t scare me anymore. Rather him than Hayward/George.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Blake in Houston or Miami or okc. I’m Skeptical anyone big goes to Boston. No chance of finals with IT on your team.
Blake in OKC would be fun to watch.
Opting in is a $150 million dollar risk for cp3 with his injury history.
I wouldn’t count pbev as a clip going forward necessarily. Think they’re open to anything and if Blake walks, they’re rebuilding.
Blake would definitely walk I would think. We have no assets to interest a team looking to rebuild though…
Blake to Lakers would be real possibility.
Not if they’re holding out hope for LBJ…
Bah humbug. I won’t believe he’s leaving until he’s gone. But they are more than welcome to hobble themselves in the meantime.
So it doesn’t appear that LeBron is going to the Clippers now… LOL.
It was always going to be the Lakers anyway…. /s just in case.
great trade by Houston. Get Paul and only give up Beverly and other spare parts? Huge win for them.
Disagree… Harden was at his best with the ball in his hands last year… CP3 is redundant
The win is that they were absolute garbage with Harden on bench. This solves that for them. They only have to play together for 22 minutes a night depending on how you distribute minutes.
yep
They’d have been better off making a run at PG-13…
Indeed. And Harden was pretty much gassed in the playoffs. Having PG will enable Harden to moderate his effort and perhaps be more dominant in the playoffs.
https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/880089383780573184
Pretty big hall for a guy that could have just walked… Disappointed we won’t be getting Beverley…
Well… this is just dumb
https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/880087788242083841
A sign and trade so he can get a larger contract or what?
Didn’t see that coming. Not sure I like CP3 playing with Harden, but I’m not much of a Harden fan.
GRIFF A POSSIBALITY ?——DOES JACKSON’S SO CALLED LEGACY ” TAKE A HIT “— I THINK SO —–HAS ANYBODY HEARD ANYMORE ON CHAUNCEY OR HAVE WE MOVED PAST HIM / WHAT ABOUT FREE AGENCY COMING UP
I would assume Griff is probably a leading candidate for the Knicks. He should be. And yes, Jackson’s legacy has taken a major hit. At least to the degree of his treatment of Melo and other players.
No. For all the talk Phil still drafted porzingis. He also had a really nice draft last year getting HernanGomez in the second round.
Course that Joakim Noah contract was an albatross. Still he conned a billionaire into giving him 60 million dollars. I call his Zen Master title secured for that amount of money
I still think his player relations during his tenure put a real damper on how people view him.
Phil Jackson getting axed means Melo buyout more or less likely?
Could go either way. They could want to truly move on to a real rebuild or they could try to repair the relationship now that the dunderhead is no longer running things.
Carmelo isn’t going anywhere. They don’t want to buy him out and he doesn’t want to waive his trade clause
They had to dump either Carmelo or Phil. Dumping Jackson was the much cheaper option
I doubt mind keeping the team intact but if it’s stays that way then the only chance the Cavs will have against the Warriors will be if they become the 96′ Bulls in terms of defense.
Nah. If we get WCF 2016 Durant instead of insano crazy hot Durant the Cavs probably would’ve won this year. Just need a bit of regression by them and a bit better series from the Cavs bench and we can still win.
It’s just hard to see that regression as a good chance. It’s easy for KD to be “insano crazy hot Durant” because there are way more threats on the floor for GS than there were for OKC. He’s taking a lot more easy shots because you can’t leave Steph, you can’t leave Thompson. You have to cover Draymond so he doesn’t pick apart your D.
We play slightly better and they play slightly worse? That could easily happen. Curry is older and he’s not LeBron so peak Curry is gone. Iggy will be older. Our only important dude who is getting older is Leb and he just had maybe his best playoffs ever. I’m totally OK with running it back with Wade coming off the bench.
I just don’t think a sound strategy is “let’s count on KD not performing as well this year.”
It’s not all they should do. They should definitely try to upgrade the bench a bit.
Pretty much agree with Cols. If you look at the history of team sports, there have been a lot of times when some team was considered unbeatable at the start of the season. At least half the time, that team does not win it all. A lot of things can happen. For example, if Durant gets injured, it is all over.
Oh I think if there is an injury to any one of Curry, Durant, or Draymond that keeps them out of the finals, the Cavs stand an even shot at winning. I just grate at the idea of “resting on our laurels”. I’m not saying we need a major move but I’m also not sure where we can get an upgrade as of now with our limited assets. Of course, I don’t work in the front office.
Exactly lol.
I’m pretty comfortable with keeping Love, but who says no to this deal?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9h6de6u
That has to be a bug in the trade machine. No way those salaries work. Also, I especially don’t think that will work with next year’s salaries, especially for Melo’s increase and 15% trade kicker.
If you were going to present an exhibit a on why Ty Lue should be fired, this article would be it. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-haters-ball/ Thompson isn’t as offensively bereft as many of the other players on the list this season or in seasons past. He has good instincts in pick-and-roll and finds space off the ball (or at least, puts himself in positions where LeBron James can find him). But he also has by far the smallest offensive role on the team. Kevin Love, who has seen his role reduced drastically from his superstar days in Minnesota, got 37.8 touches per 36… Read more »
I think TT is a solid player, great role player but is he worth 18 mil per year? Hell no.
Draymond’s paycheck is around 17 mil and he is the reigning defensive player of the year and can also be a solid playmaker and can hit the 3 ball too. Again Tristan for the right cost is a great piece to have but 18 millions to average 8 points and 8 rebounds in the postseason just doesn’t cut it on my book. Just my honest opinion.
He’s getting $16M. Well worth it for the iron man he is. He’s one of the few big men that can stay on the floor vs the warriors. He was instrumental in the last theee playoff runs. He had a bad Finals this last time. It happens. He’s not overpaid.
I respect your opinion but I don’t agree. If he was a great defensive stopper then maybe but he isn’t so again 16 mil to a guy for putting up 8 pts and 8 rebs per game meh..
Because without him we don’t win the title in 2016 and almost win it in 2015 and 2017. Let’s assume you are correct (you aren’t) and he’s overpaid. Let’s say that the Cavs played extreme hardball with him before 2015-2016 season and the holdout lasts into January, poisoning his relationship with the team and ended up with a contract at $14M instead of $16M. Is it worth it? I don’t think so. We are still over the cap and instead of having a selfless doesn’t need the ball guy who does all of the dirty work we end up with… Read more »
Actually, I think staying in Utah should be better for Hayward. The only way Hayward stays in Boston would be if the Celtics can get PG13 to commit to stay with them and that will not happen.
I don’t see Hayward leaving. He’s using Boston to get a super max from Utah.
I thought the same, but it would be nice for the Celtics if it happens. But then again the Cavs would probably beat them in 6 or 7 and PG would be gone next season.
Rumor is now that Boston attempting to acquire both George and Hayward.
It sounds like that the Celtics want a commitment from Hayward before they would move to sign PG. They have the assets to outbid the Cavs for PG.
Hopefully Indiana doesn’t want to wait or Hayward doesn’t move…
Rather just add Melo, if the Knicks buy him out. Then we can keep Love.
Utah have the second best player on either team in Gobert. I think Hayward stays.
That would be a good move for them. Unfortunately for them, we still have LeBron and thus are still the better team.
If that occurs, I think the Celtics would beat Cleveland in a tough series.
They could take the Cavs to 7 games at least if they pull that trade.
Nah. Maybe 6. Kyrie>Thomas
LeBron>>>>>>>PG13
Love>Hayward
TT>Horford
Men, I wish I was as positive as you are about this lol.
I see it this way :
Kyrie > IT
Lebron = PG13
Love = Hayward
Horford > TT
Jr > Smart
Actually, you might be right if we are talking about this season but in 2 seasons if they stay together…
Come on. TT has owned Horford every single year they’ve played. LeBron is the best player in the world till he isn’t.
Well Horford was scoring at will against TT this past postseason, about LBJ well you are right until LeBron doesn’t slow down like in 2-3 years the Cavs will still reign in the East but it would be a much more interesting series next time.
Horford averaged 12 and change, four rebounds, and was – 93 in the series. He did have nice assist totals, but I think your memory of him scoring at will is faulty.
But Hortford doesn’t shoot that much, and TT numbers were?
But will they be able to play with Thomas? I don’t see many teams with “shoot all the time” PG’s going very far.
lol, the irony in this comment
Huh?
There is the rumor floating round that Chauncey hasn’t taken the job yet so he can legally talk to players under contract before taking it.
AKA Paul George and whether or not he will commit past next season?
Would Melo waive his no trade clause?
Nobody could afford to trade for Melo. It is buyout or nothing.
Haha. I love the NBA so much.
I think this rumor is sourced to a tweet by Joe Lull who was just making up potential explanations for Gilbert’s wierdness. It isn’t a rumor sourced to anyone in the league. But it does have a nice, appealing logic to it. I hope it’s true.
Maybe Gilbert hasn’t interviewed anyone else because if Billups doesn’t take the job he’s giving it to Altman… Then again, maybe he’s just an idiot when it comes to basketball organizations…
I think they will promote internally if Billups doesn’t take it. Which is fine. But I hope Billups takes the job
OMG, I never knew that Nate was an old codger with old person ideas. Pretty funny that he thinks kids these days lack fundamentals. Like we could go to any point in time and old people with be saying that. I’m sure during Jordan’s era old players were complaining the nobody knew the fundamentals. I’m pretty sure there were hot takes about how Magic and Dr. J were too flashy, etc.
Did anyone else notice that Griff was 8th in Executive of the Year, which is voted on by the GMs? I thought that was interesting. His peers don’t seem to view him as truly elite. Of course, he is much better than having no GM.
Griffin did a very good job here. He wasn’t infallible though and the freakout that occurred when he got booted was way overblown. I wish he was still here, but bringing in new blood to help out is always fun. Plus they kept most of the staff intact it seems.
Yes. I am a Griff fan. And still think we should have kept him. But it does seem that, outside of Cleveland, he is seen as a very good GM but not an elite GM. Hopefully whoever we get to replace him earns LBJ’s trust. That is the most important thing.
Nate, do not succumb to get off my lawn everything was better in my day stuff. There’s no chance you can look at the league now and the league 20 years ago and think that there was more talent 20 years ago.
The only difference was that talent was divided up between 18 teams to present day 30 teams.
The NBA would be way better if they booted a handful of franchises, which unfortunately will never happen.
Dude, you mean fortunately. You think Cleveland would have an NBA franchise if they decided to get rid of some? They would’ve contracted the Cavs during the crappy 1970s, 1980s (before Price,etc) and the late 1990s-2004 and 2010-2014. These were all times the Cavs sucked and drew like crap.
Contraction is dumb.
I don’t know if Cleveland would be on the chopping block or not. I don’t think they’d be at the top of the list, but yeah, they’d probably be up there. That would suck…. A lot. But the league would be much more entertaining overall. It’s unfortunate that only maybe three teams can realistically hope to be champions while the rest of the fan bases have to hope they are so bad they can eventually land a superstar, and when they finally do, they get to spend the next six seasons watching ownership squander it away.
Conversely, if they did something to encourage superstars to spread out, there could be improvement without contraction. I think there should be a franchise tag, where basically that player’s contract only counted against the cap for so much. You could pay them whatever you wanted after that. But only one player obviously per team can be franchised. That would help break up super teams.
But owners would never agree to that.
Of course.
Lol. It just dawned on me 20 years ago was 1997. Fuhhhhhhh. Starting to feel old.
The talent pool is much bigger now with more international players contributing?
Sure I can. Is there anyone objectively better than Jordan? No. On par? Maybe. But better? Not yet. Are guys coming into the league with out any idea how to run an offense or rotate defensively? Yes. Do I think 21year olds are better than 18 year olds? Yes. These kids take two years just learning how to live on their own – stuff that college takes care of.
Anyone who thinks the league isn’t watered down: a second round draft pick just won ROY. That’s how bad the rookies that are coming into the league are.
Why are records constantly being broken if the league is watered down? When did this watering down start?
Because the guys guarding the best players suck.
I don’t buy it. Guys used to smoke cigarettes at half time and eat like garbage. Work out only during the season. Based solely on improvements in diet, health, exercise, and technology, guys are in better shape for longer. A higher percentage of guys are able to do athletically what very few could do back then. LeBron is patient zero.
Better athlete does not equal better basketball. That’s part of the “watered” down. Guys athletically are ready to make the jump but don’t have the skill set to back it. Draft picks are made more than ever on potential benefit. Guys are taking longer to develop and leaving a lot of teams with projects getting considerable minutes to develop them.
This I could see.
Well put. Was my point, you made it better than me.
I guess I just wasn’t alive in the 70’s and before to really know what the game looked like back then. But I guess I’m unsure why the overall talent level would be getting worse. More money, more fame, more stuff for kids to really get into at a young age. It just doesn’t add up for me.
With that said, I wish the NBA would allow high schoolers to enter the draft, but if you go to college, you have to stay a minimum of 2 years. I think that could improve the game.
They also came into the league older and had more experience.
That doesn’t make sense to me. Why would the quality of basketball players be worse than it was before in a time where they make more money than they ever have? What sport is stealing kids away that wasn’t before?
I don’t believe the league is watered down at all. I’d love to hear reasons why you think the talent level is worse off.
Stephen A. saying George would sign long term in Cleveland… if LeBron stayed… just saying…
Anything that comes from Screamin’ A is basically worthless. I take nothing from what he says. Though I hope he would be right, should we actually trade for George.
I don’t normally take a lot of what he says seriously… but in this case I think he could know something. He’s not saying a trade is imminent, just that George would entertain staying in Cleveland more than anywhere else.
Of course. Because we have LeBron. A player that everyone loves to play with.
Once you realize Stephan A is a clown, he is kind of funny. But he has no clue what he is talking about.
One thing I found amusing was nate’s comment that some of the ctb fans commented on the offseason more than the regular season. For good reason. The cavs killed the regular season for some of us. Why bother commenting if there is nothing to say during the regular season other than they are saving it for the postseason? No point in commenting on lack of effort for most of 82 games. I have no problem with that strategy other than taking it further and losing more games to rest LBJ. Might as well. As I have said many times on… Read more »
Fair disclosure, I am a mileage guy, or maybe one of the mileage guys on this blog. I still think the 50k total minutes mark is and will be a thing, based off top 50 greats’, career minutes versus production. We will see for LBJ next season, since he just passed it this postseason.
John, you are forgetting the goal, winning the Championship! No one can go full tilt for 100+ games in a year. Half the team would be injured, and the rest limping.
Raoul, knowing you as being extremely rational and reasonable, I will presume sarcasm. I don’t want them to, or expect them to with an older team. In fact I want them to rest everybody until February and then go into playoff mode intensity on d for the rest of the way. A ship should be in the goal realm with LBJ btw. At the same time, to the detriment of my argument, Wilt’s 48.5 minutes per game season of 82 games and playoffs was when he was 25, and 3 years into the NBA. LBJ will be near wilt’s retirement… Read more »
Wilt only moved half as fast as LeBron, so that counts as 24.25 MPG. Plus, he wasn’t in the playoffs much.
Did I say that? I was talking about Cavs fans in general, not (just) CtB. At least that’s how I meant it. Apparently it didn’t come out that way.
No f*cking way in Wade & Melo come off the bench for this team. or any other team..
They will if they want to win. Melo is not good enough to start on a top team.
Melo isn’t good enough to START on a top team? What are you talking about?
Yeah, that’s crazy. Melo can start on top team. Actually it would probably make Melo look pretty great if he was on a real team. I realize that some of the knicks sucking is definitely his fault, but put him on a team with LeBron freaking James and Melo looks pretty darn good.
Jordan Hill is a free agent. waived acttually.
Might worth a look?
What is EG’s take on Danny Green??? Cant listen im on work..
Hates him
http://awasteofspaceuxbridge.com/communities/1/000/000/222/281//images/1430989_234x138.png
We keep talking about trading KLove but why are we not talking about trading TT who is extremely overpaid? That way the Cavs could create some cap space to be used wisely.
Just saying.
TT is paid correctly and not overpaid. Even if we trade him we are still over the cap.
Lol he’s overpaid dude.
In a world where backup PGs are makin $10M there no way TT is overpaid.
still overpaid
I think the general feeling in NBA circles is that TT is actually properly paid or even unpaid. Look at Greg Monroe’s contract or a few of the contracts on the blazers. TT has a great contract in my opinion, he just got destroyed in this years finals. Maybe he can develop a post move or 2 this offseason or a mid range jumper. He has improved every year and has a salary on the old cap, its a win/win.
Yeah, TT is not overpaid. Sorry man.
running jumper: You are the only person that makes Cols look wise.
He’s definitely over paid, 8 pts and 8 rebs per game during the postseason doesn’t justify his 18 mil contract. And his defense is not thag excellent.
I think we’re still capped out even if we trade TT for nothing.
But I’d like to trade him for Faried. Better defender. Way better finisher. A lesser rebounder.
Cheaper and shorter contract.
This is loco. I don’t mind trading TT. But there are zero teams where Faried is a better player.
Cheaper and shorter that’s it. TT is a MUCH better defender. Kenneth doesn’t have height or wingspan to guard centers and doesn’t have TT’s ability to switch p/r. Faried is a better offensive player and finisher.
Didn’t knew this, but we agree that TT is overpaid.
Melo can’t play D, Wade can’t shoot threes. Both are old and suck, would make us worse. Would make Lebron more difficult to coach.
Every coach LeBron has ever had says he’s great to coach. I don’t know why this rumor is endlessly recycled. And Wade and Melo off the bench would be perfect. We’d no longer bleed points when LeBron sits. They are the perfect additions besides adding another star.
Pot meet kettle on your former point.
Impossible as hell on the latter.
AGREE WITH COLS / NATE —GIVE ME K.J. OVER LIGGINS —LIKED MCDANIELS COMING OUT OF THE DRAFT–WAS HOPING CAVS COULD LAND HIM BACK THEN
I will not be excited for next season if the Cavs trade kevin love, and/or acquire Paul George, Carmelo Anthony or D-Wade. Retool the bench and make smart moves, don’t stoop to the Warriors level. NBA is turning into a farce.
A consistent team that I can call Cleveland’s team that competes is by far more important than empty championships by loaning superstars to win a championship
Absolutely not.
Empty championships? Golden State has fired shots across our bow. Draymond trash talked the city of Cleveland. That team of anti-competitive players is an absolute embarrassment to the NBA. Why would you not want to do everything you can to beat them? You just want to roll over and add a couple bench guys because KD signed as a free agent? Screw that. I want to win a championship next season.
Because you don’t want to mortgage a four year window for one shot that makes you marginally better against this one particular team and then see everyone walk next year.
Our window is over as long as LeBron James is a Cav and is still LEBRON JAMES
Whelp. Yeah I got that impression from you on the podcast. However, from your own words, ‘Lebron ain’t leaving,’ yes? How is it mortgaging that if that is Lebron is most likely to stay?
My point is LeBron is much more likely to stay if he has the best team in the east. But if George walks, they don’t. That’s why you stagger the contract years. To keep the guys coming back.
You don’t want to mortgage a four year window . . . so we don’t want to make moves to upgrade our roster when we are going to have to beat the best team in the history of the NBA each of those 4 years?
No, let’s stand pat and hope we get lucky.
I’m not talking about standing pat. I’m talking about not trading one of the best players for a one year rental.
I totally agree that trading Love for George and having George walk sucks. I would hope we would have some security from George that, hey, I can postpone playing in LA for a few years if it means being in the Finals every year.
If we don’t have some assurance from George before making the move, I wouldn’t make it.
+1
This sounds like a Cleveland defeatist attitude. “Let’s only get better if it’s not by adding star-level talent!” Like, what? The goal is to win championships. We have the best player in the world on our team. We should do everything humanly possible to add 3 talents like George, Melo and Wade. I like Love a lot and I think he’s a tremendous player. But unfortunately, the guy puts up too many non-existent offensive performances in the Finals. Too many single digit, 2-10 shooting games. It makes it difficult to win championships when your third best player has disappearing acts… Read more »
I’m fine with that attitude, but by that rite, Kyrie shouldn’t be off the table. Kev had one bad game in the finals, Kyrie had at least two. Oh and it’s not as if PG13 hasn’t put in his share of clunkers. 5-21, 10-28?
Nate, come on. I get it. We all get it. Love was great all year and had a good Finals. But you absolutely cannot argue the he is more important to the Cavs than Kyrie freaking Irving.
That’s not what I argued. I was following Gordon’s logic to its logical conclusion. Also, Kyrie isn’t sacrosanct. If Love isn’t moving the needle, maybe you move Kyrie if the right deal is there.
Nate, I won’t disagree that Kyrie should also be available in the right deal. But I will also say that Kyrie is more important to this team than Kevin Love. I get the defensive issues, but Kyrie is also a special talent that can score 50 any given night. He’s hit a game winning shot in Game 7 of the Finals, and has proven on numerous occasions he’s one of the more clutch players in the NBA. Would I trade him for Anthony Davis? Maybe. For Paul George? No. As for Kevin Love, he most definitely did not only have… Read more »
Totally disagree. First, I don’t consider George an upgrade, second, your game three analysis, you ignore his 6-7 at the line. Also six freaking steals! He’s not the reason they lost that game. They lost cause LeBron ran out of gas and the didn’t run an offense in the last three minutes, both of which killed them down the stretch. When a guy’s shot isn’t falling, he has to contribute in other ways Love did. Oh, and George put up stinkers in his series too. George isn’t any better, he’s just shiny and new.
Whether George would be an upgrade on this team or not I can’t definitively say.
Great, Love made 6 FTs. He still scored in the single digits. I’m not really “ignoring” his FTs as that total is reflected in the <10 total points he scored.
We aren’t paying Kevin Love to score 9 and 6 points in 2 huge games in the NBA Finals, regardless of the other contributions he makes.
They lost because LeBron and Kyrie and Love missed layups in the last two minutes and Korver missed a corner three. They ran their offense just fine until Durant hit the three to put them ahead.
I think LeBron holds Kyrie in special regard and sees him having the higher ceiling. Hard to argue the second point, really. Remember what he said to Kyrie after the game 5 loss: “We’ll be back. You and I will be back.” Kev’s the odd man out here (like he’s always been).
Gordon: Breath some air. This is 2017 Melo and Wade are way past their prime, and far from star-level talent. You would probably like to get Larry Bird too.
Raoul – Paul George would be the “star” in my post, not Melo or Wade. Let’s use some logic here. But Melo and Wade are still two very skilled players. Melo just averaged 23 ppg in a “bad” year.
My point still stands. It’s just not smart to want the Cavs to improve less because you don’t want to add star-level talent. It’s just illogical. Hey, let’s not be better than we can be because I want to win as a giant underdog! Ok man.
Yeah. Wade and Melo would be tremendous bench upgrades here.
Anyone would stoop to the Warrior’s level if they could. Unfortunately, there are not any more Durants out there.
I’m totally with EG on his Danny Green take. Give me JR Smith anyday.
Really nice pod guys.
Yep. Although I don’t know why EG thinks Griffin would’ve worked until June 30 without an extension.
Because that’s what he was being paid to do… his contract wasn’t up until then…
EG, that’s crap and you know it. Griffin wasn’t going to stick around because “contract says”. That’s not how it works, please don’t act like you don’t understand this point.
It’s not crap… it’s about timing. By all accounts, Griff was trying to pull deals just hours before his meeting with Gilbert… He was certainly still doing his job because he was under contract. Please don’t act like you don’t understand what a contract means…
Here’s the deal though. In the past no deals from the Cavs leaked like they did that entire day before Griffin left. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the whole Griffin was about to pull off deals thing. It was a last ditch negotiating ploy by Griffin. Which is fine, I have no problem with Griffin pulling that stuff.
And you know exactly how this works in the NBA. Stop with this contract crap. It’s beneath you.
All this tells me is that you have no respect for contracts… you do the work for which you are paid. Anything else is just dishonesty…
This is not how things work in the major sports leagues and you know it. Don’t do this to your reputation around here.
You’re the only person here worried about EGs reputation…
I know. I wish he would think about it before he does the HONOR CONTRACTS thing like he doesn’t understand how this works at this level. Griffin is not a manager at a McDonalds.
You can have a difference of opinion but stop being an asshat,and trashing people for theirs, Cols. You owe EG an apology.
Fine. Sorry EG for trashing you. But you are wrong on the whole honoring contracts thing at this level.
I’m not wrong… you’re myopic, intractable and generally foolish about things like this… I don’t propose to be naive about how contracts work… I just believe this situation could have been handled differently, and there’s nothing to suggest Griff shouldn’t have done the job he was paid for until his deal expired… But I guess you’re cool with shrugging commitments… Glad I’m not your employer
No one is denying any of this. Yes, this situation could’ve been handled like 1000 x better. But expecting an NBA GM to work until the end of the month because CONTRACT is crazy.
https://goo.gl/images/iWgA6C
Dude, you’re hysterical… worried about MY reputation? Worry about your own…
DiAndre review: http://kingjamesgospel.com/2017/06/26/cleveland-cavaliers-diamond-deandre-liggins-return/
This is never going to stop is it? No matter how many teams look at this guy and decide he sucks, no matter how long he toils in the D-league, I’m going to be constantly see pining for this chump at CtB. Wonderful.
Wake up to the reality that the Cavs were better when Liggins was playing than when he wasn’t. Did you see the game on Dec 25?
That was last year. Who knows what will happen this year. I hope it does not involve playing Shump over a better player to “help his confidence”.
Raoul
Shump is basically Liggins’s ceiling. You want to keep a guy who is somehow worse than Shumpert at dribbling and passing and shooting????????
There’s a reason the LIggins was cut, it’s because he sucks. LeBron and Griffin are not dumb. They don’t make moves to cut players who are actually good. And the fact that Liggins keeps getting cut and can’t make any teams shows that they aren’t the only ones who think Liggins sucks.
Give me kj mcdaniels
McDaniels would be a better choice. He’s 24 and still has some development left and has played 148 games in the NBA unlike the 29 year old D-leaguer who has gotten all of 119.
Down. Wanted him since he was with the Rockets.
No one looks happy to be there.
https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/879347600704581633
While I agree with most of the points, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about Gilbert just being reactionary and not having a true plan. I think at the very least, you let Griffin run the draft until you have someone committed to you. You can keep things hush/hush if you are a smart organization…….. I do think money was a factor here because Gilbert thinks the job is easy with Lebron while some people think it is hard. We’ll never know but if Gilbert really wasn’t even going to come close, he totally… Read more »
That is my huge problem with Gilbert. He seems to regularly make impulsive and not well thought out decisions which could affect the team’s competitiveness long term. These aren’t the types of decisions to be made on a whim or without forethought. Not extending Griffin is ok. I think he was good, but so be it. However, the way it went down, and then interviewing only one gem candidate with zero front office experience seems insane to me. It literally reeks of the Mike Brown 2.0 hire.
No no no no. The quality of basketball is much higher now.
It’s so weird having Nate parrot my takes on not freaking out and enjoying this team on a podcast. Thanks Nate!
Yep. Getting to the Finals is great and winning the one title is the most important thing.
Laundry for sure.
But trading Kevin Love for Paul George is the right move.
I think so too. It’s hard because Love has done everything and more for the Cavs team since being traded…..
Yes. This isn’t a knock on Love who was incredible last year and really is the perfect fit for this team, it’s because PG13 makes us better against the Warriors.
For next year’s potential matchup with the warriors yes, basketball wise it makes sense. Beyond next year it is a big risk. I know Nate doesn’t think LBJ is leaving again, and I don’t right now either. However, things could change next season, and Nate did make a point that gave me a bit of pause on the PG trade. That is, unlike Butler who has 2 years left on his deal, PG is only locked up for next season. Meaning he and LBJ would be up at the same time. If the worst case scenario happened, LBJ left, PG… Read more »
I am not bored with excellence.
Nate is again correct that we can beat the Warriors with Kevin Love.
I think we can in the half court but Kyrie and Kevn don’t get back in transition. To quote Ben Falk, the Cavs have to decide if their transition defense is problematic because they can’t (illness/speed) do it, won’t do it (lazy i.e . Kyrie) or don’t know how to do it (keep picking up the wrong man as Kyrie often did).
Nate is correct. The Cavs were easily the 2nd best team in the NBA. And again this year too.
Ha. Nate is correct that Cavs fans lost their brains.
What if Paul signs a one year vet minimum to come to CLE to play with LeBron then eventually Wade and Melo, to contest the Warriors then everyone parts ways if they don’t win it.
Ha. That would be fun. Let’s do it.
The guys get their banana boat team for one year. They get to test their mettle against the Dubs. It only hurts them about one season worth of salary (they are all making bananas worth of money already). Sounds like a plan to me.
20 million bucks is a lot of money to pass up. I like to think that is what I would do, but no telling what we would do in that situation since we have never been in it.
Kevin DOES love Denver. Still don’t want to let him go.
Love was awesome last year. I’d do it for George though. He helps a lot vs the warriors by guarding Durant LeBron can go back to rim protection/floater mode.
I just worry how much our rebounding will take a hit. It certainly could be surmountable but that was a huge strength for us in our championship.
My thought is though- Who is the Warriors “big rebounder?” Rebounding is a skill in the NBA, but not an ELITE skill. Other players will just have to pick up the slack, but I don’t think we miss too much on that end in actuality. I like Love, and if we could swing something for George & keep Love, I’m all for it. I just think the benefit George gives us as a 2-way all-star is more benefit than what Love is/will give.
Yep.
It’s possible you’re right. It’s also possible that we underestimate the small skills of KLove getting position and boxing players out even when he doesn’t get the rebound. Subtle things can shift games of basketball. Just something that I worry about. Plus I really like Kevin so I’m being a bit of a homer as well.
On tonight’s NBA Awards show, will LeBron win ANYTHING?! This should qualify for game winner, IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKipC47xWL0
WOULD THINK BY NOW ( EVEN THOUGH HE REALIZES THE NBA IS A BUSINESS ) LOVE WOULD WELCOME A TRADE —-ALL HE HAS EVER HEARD SINCE HE HAS BEEN HERE IS HIS NAME CONSTANTLY BROUGHT UP IN TRADE TALKS AND LEBRON HAS NEVER REALLY PUBLICLY ENDORSED NOT TO TRADE KEVIN —JUST THINK BY NOW HE HAS GROWN TIRED OF THE RUMORS ( ALSO KNOWS / REALIZES THAT THEY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE )—-JUST MY OPINION
Nah. These guys are used to this stuff. If Love come back there will be no problems. This team really likes each other gets along well. If you think otherwise, listen to the road trippin podcast.
Sebastian Telfair is a good example of a player who came out of high school in that last year. I think better than most because how many people remember him? He had almost no career in the NBA before jumping to China. On the other hand, look at how ultimately brief a players career can be. Every game is a risk for these guys, how do you tell a high school player who is that close that they can’t make their money (possibly changing their life) then they go to college and have a career ending injury and never make… Read more »
High School players should be allowed to enter the draft if they want to. Forcing them to college is extremely unfair to them.
They don’t have to go to college. They can play overseas. Or they can sit out a year. In any case, it’s something to be collectively bargained between the players association and the owners.
I always laugh when I hear people say, “THERE ARE NO OTHER JOBS THAT HAVE A MINIMUM AGE LIMIT!!”. BS. I know this for a fact because MY profession has a federal minimum age limit. And mine is not the only one. I don’t care either way, but stop saying that crap.
How is that any better than just letting them play in the NBA? You can’t play at age 18 but 19 is just fine seems really dumb.
Again, it’s not ‘letting’ them or ‘not letting’ them play. It’s an issue to be collectively bargained. If the underage guys don’t like it, they need to look to the player union. There is no ‘man’ holding them back. It is the player’s union.
The underage guys have no say in the union. What’s with your agenda here? It’s not like it’s the 18 year old’s fault they can’t play in the NBA.
I actually like the way MLB does it. You can get drafted out of high school, but if not you have to go to college for 2+ years.
At the same time some guys who came out, like telfair, may have lasted longer with some college experience instead of being buried on an NBA bench while trying to develop. On the other hand, if NBA teams want to draft high school players who are more likely to bust than stick because most are nowhere near ready, maybe the team’s shouldn’t be protected from themselves. Maybe it is unfair to players. After all you might at least get a draft payday even if your development is stunted by not playing any minutes during your rookie contract.