Thoughts On David Griffin and Kyrie
2017-08-08Things I noticed while watching David Griffin’s appearance on ESPN’s The Jump Monday afternoon…
Griffin quickly noted that he expected Kyrie Irving to be traded and that it’s best for both parties to move on, particularly if Kyrie isn’t 100% invested in the team. While Irving’s trade request was made after Griffin left the Cavaliers, Griffin likely knows far more than we do. After all, it’s no secret that Griffin spent a significant amount of time managing the egos of his players, particularly the big three. Considering Brian Windhorst’s report that Irving considered asking for a trade after the Cavaliers won the 2016 NBA Title, this was likely no surprise to Griffin at all.
Many were surprised by Griffin saying that Irving handled the trade request “exactly like he was supposed to”, but in terms of making a trade request, that is true. Irving didn’t make the request through the media, didn’t do it during training camp or the regular season, and didn’t come to training camp with an attitude that could ruin the Cavaliers’ entire season. He went to the owner and made his request in private. In fact, the only complaint Cavs fans could have in terms of how he handled the request was that he didn’t do it before the NBA Draft or the start of free agency.
Less surprising was Griffin taking the middle road between Irving and the Cavaliers. Anyone who has heard him speak at length to the media knows that Griffin isn’t the type to put down others publicly. He pointed out that Irving didn’t really expect himself to carry the team when James didn’t play, and that Irving seems to want a team with a strong coach, but that was as far as he went in giving his personal opinion. Griffin also is unlikely to say anything that would jeopardize his chance of running another team some day. Most of us would be the same way.
Obviously, what Cavalier fans take issue with is that Irving requested a trade from the defending Eastern Conference Champions in the first place. As Griffin pointed out, Irving wants to see how good he can be, to test his limits. That likely means finding a team where he can be the offensive focal point. Ironically, he still wouldn’t be that focal point on three of the teams (the Minnesota Timberwolves, San Antonio Spurs, and New York Knicks) that he expressed interest in joining. The only team that would likely be the case with is the Miami Heat, although with the Knicks anything can happen.
On the topic of teams Irving prefers, it was interesting to hear Griffin mention the Boston Celtics several times. The Celtics weren’t on the list we’ve heard so many times before, but they do fit the profile of a team with a strong coach and other young players, something Irving seems to prefer from teams outside of the Knicks, who play fairly close to his childhood home in West Orange, New Jersey. While the Celtics certainly could provide an intriguing combination of players and draft picks for Irving, it’s hard to see the two best teams in the Eastern Conference agreeing on a blockbuster trade with one another. It’s also debatable whether or not Irving would be the focal point over Gordon Hayward, but that is far more likely than the actual trade taking place.
This begs the question, what does Irving see as the point in playing this game? Is it to win titles? Is it to be the biggest star he can be? As Tim Bontemps pointed out, Irving is typically at his most impactful when he shares the court with James, however it seems that he wants to play for a team where the offense is built around him instead of James. It’s natural for a young and talented scorer such as Irving to wonder, particularly since he already has a championship. In many ways, that title gives Irving the clout to look at other priorities and options for his career. Wanting to branch out on his own doesn’t make Irving a bad guy, it does make him a normal 25 year old. What one has to wonder is, if he never comes close to winning another title, will Irving look back with regret at leaving the Cavaliers?
We won’t know the answer to that for many years, and considering his relationship with most of the media, it’s unlikely Irving will share those feelings with us. What does seem definite is this, whether it’s tomorrow, or months from now, Kyrie Irving’s time with the Cleveland Cavaliers is likely coming to an end. Considering both the great career likely ahead of him, as well as the fact that he hit the shot that gave Cleveland it’s first major sports championship in 52 years, the memories he leaves are undoubtedly bittersweet. How it works out for all parties in the long run, we likely won’t know for years.
Cavs should just roll as is into next season. Kyrie has no leverage to force a trade. No sure thing GSW emerges from the West playoffs either. So many things can happen and the best teams just got better. On the flip, the East is still the Cavs playground even with BOS upgrades.
What I found most interesting–and irritating–from Griffin’s appearance was when he talked about not developing Kyrie and the team when LeBron was off the floor. Maybe the team had other problems and priorities, but this seemed so obvious to many fans. Not only would it have made us better for the playoffs, it would’ve added interest to the regular season. Maybe Kyrie was already too checked out for that.
There is one good thing:
It looked like we were having a very boring off season. The Warriors look unbeatable. The Cavs have zero resources for Koby to use for improvement. We will just sit there and try it again next year. All we had to yammer about on CtB was how disappointing Calderone and Rose are.
Then Wham! Kyrie shoots the CtB gang into overdrive. They might have to close down the trade machine for refurbishing.
It is actually kind of fun. As for next year, we got LeBron, and they don’t!
https://twitter.com/Indians/status/895109897917878272
Kyrie leaving the perfect situation while winning and getting paid is very dumb.
This is all on him.
You have said this about 20 times now
It is very dumb and really screws us up. But you gotta move on and start thinking about a LeBron-led team with a better defensive PG. Imagine the 2015 Finals team but with a PG that actually had non-negative offensive contributions (Bldesoe for Delly). And imagine an angry LeBron taking the floor with that team every night with a huge chip on his shoulder and a shaved head. And KLove goinf for 24 and 12. And DRose leading a 2nd unit with Korver, Smith, Frye and a bunch of shooters. We might lost to the Ws, but it will be… Read more »
True. I will move on soon. I’m just angry at Kyrie for blowing this up for no good reason
Gomes just hit a walk off BTW
I hear you. Especially frustrating that Kyrie doesn’t see how perfect LBJ is for him.
But just picture angry, shaved-head LeBron dunking on people. It’s a good image.
And, honestly, I had actually gotten to a point last year where I was so intense about the team that all that mattered was the Finals. It kind of ruined everything else. If we deal KI and get a new style of team in here with slightly lower expectations, it might be kind of fun. #EverythingCanStillBeAwesome
Go Tribe!
YES. Go Browns!!!
Ok. You’ve said that. Give it a rest.
I’d do this. Would Hornets?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9wsnnok
Oh man. I like Batum more than most people, and there is no one who has more desire to get rid of Shump, but not for Kemba Walker. He’s a nice little player, but he doesn’t check the requisite boxes. He isn’t a solid enough or switchy enough defender. Despite his career year, he isn’t a knockdown shooter, and he needs the ball in his hands in order to influence the game. He is a more complete version of Isaiah Thomas, but still a mini-player. No thank you about five times. Batum is solid, but not for 22 mil. The… Read more »
Say what you want about LeBron’s presence on a franchise and how LeBron gets the majority of the praise for his team’s successes. It goes the other way too, though. LeBron is the most scrutinized athlete ever and he takes the majority of the blame/criticism. Even Griffin admitted that Kyrie wasn’t held accountable for the team’s result when LeBron was on the bench. While Kyrie’s flaws have been critiqued well on this blog, I think LeBron’s “shadow” has hidden Kyrie’s faults from overwhelming national criticism. I hope you’re ready for that, Kyrie. It doesn’t get any easier than the situation… Read more »
All this talk about Kyrie wanting to “challenge himself” by leading another team as the man… Wait, is running it back and attempting to beat one of the best, if not THE best, team of all time not challenging enough?? Figuring out how to defend against the Warriors isn’t challenging enough?? I’ve gotten over being mad at Kyrie and frankly am just disappointed now. In my opinion, Kyrie is “being an idiot” because he’s putting personal goals over team goals. Rather than showing that competitive spirit, it feels like he has just given up that this iteration of the Cavs… Read more »
Mums the word! We don’t want other teams finding that out!
He needs to challenge himself on the Knicks while Zingis and Melo are on the Cavs. We’ll send Shump to make it easier for him.
A couple more thoughts. Kyrie refusing to commit to an extension with a team is one thing, his desire to leave a title contender is another. Even if you look at it from the perspective of wanting to be treated as an equal by LeBron and the organization, as reported by Ric Bucher, it’s still a guy whose ego is getting in the way of possibly winning a title. That fact could give any team pause in trading for him. What’s he going to do when the team wants to add other players? To be fair, he is interested in… Read more »
He’s not overrated
Make it two unprotected picks.
Well written by the author. I agree with Griff. The Cavs, unless they fall into a team that panics and gives the Cavs something back that’s better than Irving, will fail miserably this season and it started with letting Griff go.
I am so bummed that he didn’t ask for a trade after the title in 2016. Talking about selling high. I don’t think they are going to trade him before the season starts because other teams don’t want him. It would be bad business, but I would secretly love it if Altman held a press conference and said that we’re not trading KI because other teams don’t value him as much as he values himself.
Kyrie is just a perennial malcontent – unhappy and wanted out during the dreadful years as main man, and now still unhappy and wanted out during the title contending years as the guy who took the most shots and held and pounded the ball the longest. I wouldn’t be fooled by Kyrie’s sleepy eyed looks, he has been the focal point of many Cavs dissensions in just 7 short years-had a rift with Byron Scott, feuded with Mike Brown and wanted out, quarreled with Dion Waiters, took umbrage for having 0 assists games while playing point guard, and now this.… Read more »
I found it interesting how confident he is a trade will occur.
…and he knows about the dynamics and egos within team more than anyone. He must have known Kyrie situation brewing and perhaps controlled it last year.
Griff knew about the Kyrie situation as soon as LeBron returned. Windhorst and others have made this pretty clear. This isn’t something that started last year or this year.
Then Griff did a great job, a championship to show for it. He might be just stating the fact as it is irreconcilable.
Go away Griffin.
FYI – He’s no longer with the team.
Neither is Delly, but doesn’t stop his obsessing.
Griff never could have guided the Cavs to their explosive offseason
This is 100% on Kyrie.
Even though I read Mike’s thoughtful analysis, I am in the EG camp of being absolutely tired of the Kyrie saga. The Cavs won’t trade Irving unless the team gets equal value, and Irving may very well be suiting up for the Cavs. If that happens, I think Irving will play up to his capabilities, as a sulking under performing Kyrie is bad for his beloved “brand.” I totally disagree with Griffin that Irving was “brave” as I would use words like petulant and selfish instead.
Agreed. Leaving this situation to be the man on a sucky team is amazingly dumb. At least wait until you are a free agent and leave.
I don’t like Kyrie’s approach of ignoring phone calls (if that is even true, who knows) and mocking LeBron. But, I have no issues with him asking for a trade. We can all say he’s selfish all we want, but this is no different than any other situation where you feel like you can grow as a [insert career/discipline/hobby/whatever here] if you move to a different situation. Plenty of people leave a job to make more money elsewhere. In Kyrie’s situation, he has the money – it’s about challenging himself as a player. We are only on this earth for… Read more »
So Kyrie blowing up a championship team is now OK? Eph that.
Kay Felder says “Hi.”
Define OK? Is it OK that a player wants to leave his current team? Uh, yeah dude. People have that freedom. If he goes to the media and goes super negative and FORCES his way out, then screw him for hurting his own trade value while expecting us to trade him. But privately going to the owner and asking for a trade? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at all. It’s not his fault the story leaked. Kyrie isn’t “blowing up” a championship team. He asked for a trade. It’s up to our front office to maximize the… Read more »
Thanks for asking. I am telling Kyrie he is an idiot.
Cool, use a narrow, single way of looking at the situation. Hyper intelligent.
If KI really wanted to challenge himself he’d learn to play defense.
Zero chance of getting equal value. 60% to 75% is possible. For one thing, Kyrie is not worth much without playing in LeBron’s shadow, and there are not many LeBrons out there.
Who cares what David Griffin has to say at this point? The dude clearly has an ax to grind against Gilbert because Gilbert wouldn’t give him the bag. I wouldn’t trust anything he says. Irving stated he wanted out to be THE MAN. This is 10000000000000000000% on Irving.
Why are you freaking out about Griffin? The guy didn’t say anything wrong or inaccurate or anything to stir the pot. He just answered honestly, and I think what he said is completely right. As Cavs fans, we can be super defensive and upset at Kyrie all we want, but at the end of the day, the guy DID handle the situation the right way. He didn’t complain to the media or do it midseason. He did it in the dead of the offseason and he did it in private. Whether he should ask for a trade or not is… Read more »
Blowing up the team to be the guy on a sucky team is “handling it the right way”. I completely disagree.
I understand that Griffin does not want to say anything insulting to anyone. But, Kyrie is being an idiot, so Griffin would be smart to say nothing. That Kyrie is “brave” is BS.
Raoul – there are many people that would disagree with you entirely. Kyrie is only “being an idiot” if you have a singular way of evaluating the situation. You think he’s “being an idiot” because he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James. Ok, that’s fine if you think he’s an idiot. I think he’s an elite talent that wants to challenge himself to accomplish something outside of the shadow of LeBron. Anyone that has the utmost confidence in their abilities wants to do the same thing. Just because he doesn’t want to play for our Cavs, or play… Read more »
Hey Gordon, you can slice it up any way you want to, but at the end of the day Kyrie is being an idiot. And stop this shadow of LeBron nonsense. He’s allowed to do what he wants on this team and one of the most popular/marketable stars in the game. He’s in no one’s shadow.
Kyrie is an idiot…. savant…..
The reason he is being an idiot is because he totally lucked into playing with LeBron, which put him in a position to take an all time famous shot. Without LeBron, he would be a poor man’s Carmelo, chucking away on a sub .500 team. Which is where he is likely to wind up after a trade. KI is one of the best ever at pounding the rock and fairly often getting to the hole and ending up with an astounding shot that goes in. But that is at most 10% of the skills package that a top player needs.… Read more »
He freaks out about anything that isn’t 100% pro Cavs. He is a breathing propaganda office.
Cleveland could win a championship with Boston’s I.T. And J.C.
Not if we trade Kay Felder.
Here’s a Hot Sauce type of trade… sorry Hot Sauce…
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7ghj38p
Haha. Now that trade is TOO bad for us. No way we do that. We can do better.
?
Here’s another trade for you Ainge.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y88hvufz
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7a96kbw
I didn’t see this one… saw the other- I went further
Even better!
If the Celtics want Irving. Here’s a proposal for you Danny Ainge.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybxzlr6c
Griffin is just poisoning the well because he couldn’t land another job. This is 100% on Irving. He’s being paid the max. He’s on a winning team. He’s allowed to play how he wants and put up as many shots as he’d like and no one tells him otherwise. 100% on Irving for blowing up this team.
“Poisoning the well”????