Preseason Recap: Washington, 102 – Cleveland, 95 (Or, Who Needs Starters?)
2017-10-08
As the Cavs rested most of the regulars, this recap will go through the performance of each of the players who did manage to get some playing time. This must be what Lue and the rest of the staff plan on doing considering they started Ante Zizic, Jeff Green, Cedi Osman, Kyle Korver, and Kay Felder. With an inspiring lineup like that, who can resist the opportunity to see what they can do? Let’s get started.
Ante Zizic: Ante got the start for the Cavs today. While he didn’t look great, he also didn’t look too far in over his head facing off against Washington’s starting center, Marcin Gortat. Zizic played well for most of the game. He has a long way to go but it’s clear he has a future in this league. His footwork is not bad for his size on both the defensive and offensive end. At one point in the first quarter, he was switched onto Beal and managed to shield him from the basket as Beal drove in. He wasn’t able to change his shot enough to force a miss, but it was nice to see him not getting left in the dust like Wile E. Coyote. Zizic made some standard rookie big man errors with dropped passes and poor fouls but these are things we expect from rookies. His sweet hook shot from the first half showed what he is capable of on that side of the court. There are bright things in his future.
Jeff Green: Usually seeing Jeff Green’s name in the starting lineup would be enough to turn my stomach green. Fortunately, he wasn’t as hard to watch during this contest. He stayed within himself, had a monster block in the first quarter, went coast to coast on one occasion, and had the highlight of the game with a monster jam in the first half. The Dr. Jekyll version of Jeff Green finished with 19 on 8/14 shooting and seven rebounds in 24 minutes. I’m sure it won’t be long until we see Mr. Hyde again.
https://youtu.be/pWCJNeohoDI?t=60
Cedi Osman: I was glad to see Osman was playing this game. He’s been out with back spasms so far and it was nice to get a good hard look at him today. I hope we don’t get rid of Cedi the Jedi because he seems like he will be a decent NBA player in the future. If Osman impacts any games this season it will be in transition, where he shines. In the first half, Cedi had some excellent moments when he got out in space. He managed to thread the needle on a tight pass through to Green for a transition score, as well as another good pass to RJ and a drive that lead to a foul on Gortat and two shots. Defensively, the game looks too fast for him right now. This is expected but it didn’t stop him from getting an excellent block on Beal in the first quarter as he drove the lane. Osman finished with six points, six dimes, and five boards in 36 minutes. He was the best passer on the floor.
Kyle Korver: Not much to say about Korver today. La Flama Blanca was working out there in the first half and seemed to get his stroke back. His poor shooting won’t continue going into the season. Korver is just too talented and too meticulous for a slump to last that long. Good to see him get back on track this game.
Kay Felder: Killer Shrimp managed to not look so much like a high schooler out there during this game. He had some good threes and a great dump off to Zizic on a drive in the second half. Unfortunately, he still had a sequence in the first half where he passed the ball off of a rolling Zizic’s head then got it back and promptly bricked a three. This game aside, he’s not long for this team and possibly even the league.
Channing Frye: Much like Korver, there wasn’t anything unexpected going on with Frye today. He didn’t see the court too much and when he did he managed to get into the post for a turn around clanker off the rim. Good try Channing, maybe next time.
Richard Jefferson: Unfortunately, our beloved RJ looked like one of the worst out there today. His age is starting to show and he just looked tired out there. That doesn’t bode well for his chances of remaining on the roster. Jefferson missed a coast to coast layup, was blocked on a dunk attempt he usually finishes, air balled a step back three, and let a defensive rebound slip out of his hands and followed it up with a lazy inbound pass which was stolen. Good luck Richard Jefferson, I truly hope you make this roster.
Kendrick Perkins: Angry Smurf showed some nimble moves with a reverse layup and a pretty baby hook in the second half. Perkins is still here to give these guys some edge and attitude to enter the season. There is no way the Cavs are wasting one of their coveted roster spots on Perk, right? Right.
Jose Calderon: Calderon showed us nothing special tonight. Everything you would expect to happen, did happen. He didn’t make any grievous errors on the offensive end, he couldn’t stay in front of his man on the defensive end, and he made his open threes. At this point in his career, we aren’t going to see anything new.
John Holland: Holland looks like the perfect candidate for a two-way contract. He’s young, athletic, and has the tools to be successful in the NBA. Holland played well this game, when he finally got in. He hit on three three-pointers and managed a nice steal and transition layup to draw two fouls. Hopefully the two-way contract will afford him the opportunity to play more minutes than he did against the Wizards.
Edy Tavares: Big Edy didn’t see the court today until the fourth quarter. The Cavs will likely make him their first casualty when they start cutting ranks to get down to 17 for the start of the season. I wish him well in future endeavors.
Overall, the Cavs held their own against Washington’s starters. They stayed tight against them all the way until the second quarter when the lead started to get away from them. However, once the Wizards reserves came in, Cleveland fought back and reclaimed the lead. Cleveland would eventually lose the game 102-95. And Washington lost Sheldon Mac to what looked like a very bad leg injury. Otherwise, not a lot to see this game. The Cavaliers will look to put it all together Tuesday against the Bulls. Go Cavs and good luck to the Tribe tonight in New York. (It turned out to be not so good luck.).
Live thread up.
https://twitter.com/MLBastian/status/917851140380938242
So who thinks the Cavs will be awesome?
Me
You guys are a cute couple.
So what’s your prediction for the Cavs?
https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/917835383278325760
Sweet
I hope he is ready. Half the lineup is not fully recovered from injury, and the other half is swing at wild pitches.
Isn’t there a game tonight?
Yeah, but it’s preseason and preseason sucks.
Yes. Starters tune-up game. Might actually be interesting.
The official position of CtB seems to be that RJ, Frye, LeBron, Derrick Williams and Kyle Korver was awesome and unstoppable. But that Thomas, Wade, Crowder, James, and Love isn’t going to be good. And that Rose, JR, LeBron, Korver, TT isn’t going to be good.
Those last two lineups are probably the best two lineups in the eastern conference.
You still suck at reading comprehension.
I thought on your self-imposed hiatus that perhaps simple analytical reading skills would have been sharpened.
Time for your nap.
My opinion, which is I assume what you think you’re echoing here, is in no way a representation of the other 10 or so people other who contribute to this site. There is no “official” CtB position on anything. You do them a disservice to say so. Also your hyperbole on my analyses is ridiculous. I’m not going to tell you again. Don’t paraphrase me or say what you think my opinion is. Y You’re consistently wrong. I don’t appreciate the misquotes.
Nate “The wildcat offense with RJ, Frye, LeBron, Derrick Williams, and Korver was one of the association’s best regular season lineups. He buried it for no discernable reason and we never saw it in the playoffs. There’s one example.”
Do you see the players in this lineup? Frye, Derrick Williams, and RJ? Do you think running this lineup out is going to do anything but get crushed by good athletic teams? Now replace Frye, RJ, and Derrick Williams with Love, Crowder, and Wade and you can see what Lue wants to do.
You asked for an example of when Lue buried players who were playing well. I provided it. Don’t move the goalposts, lucy.
Once again, you can educate us or try to score points on me. You can look at why that lineup wasn’t used (because having old RJ, slow Frye and sucky Derrick Williams), or you can just throw it out there and say ha ha, got you.
Argh.
You’re the one who asked the question! You say “When has ever buried anyone good on the bench?” I give an example and you scream “context.” Your argument is circuitous. Your rationale as to why a player is good, “Lue plays him. He must be good – the best option.”
So what player who is a good NBA player has Lue refused to play? Cut by 5 teams and out of the NBA Derrick Williams?
It doesn’t matter how many times a guy was cut if his team is playing well, especially if his team is significantly outscoring other teams when he’s on the floor. That’s nba analytics in a nutshell.
Nikola Yokic, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder… They sucked before they got to play
Danny Green was cut twice before he stuck.
Cavs were playing well when Derrick Williams was playing. That’s the only argument I need.
I’m glad Tom is back! When do you go on the radio again?
who knows
What we learned last year is that surrounding Leb with nothing but shooters is a pretty good strategy with one major flaw. That is that they also need to have some other playmakers besides Leb when the going gets tough. Hence bringing in Wade and Rose while ALSO KEEPING ALL THE SHOOTING THEY HAD LAST YEAR.
I mean, kind of. Kyrie is one of the best shooters in the league. I’m glad IT is also a 90+% foul shooter. Will be good in late game situations.
Replacing Kyrie with Thomas is pretty much as close to a drop-in replacement you can get. He won’t be quite as good as Kyrie was in the post-season, but Thomas+Crowder more than makes up for Kyrie in the post-season.
There are zero universes in which Thomas = Irving. Irving is head and shoulders better.
He wasn’t last year. Thomas was really amazing last year.
Irving is enough of a head case to limit his impact. Thomas is 100% out to win. The Cavs got lucky with the trade.
I don’t see how people aren’t fired up this year. Like last year this Cavs team is going to be awesome. Like last year they will easily make the Finals where they played the cockiest least likeable team ever to a draw whenever LeBron was on the floor. Now that we have a bench that has real actual playmakers instead of Deron Williams and Shumpy, we should be better equipped to take those frauds down.
Or better yet Durant reverts back to 2016 WCF Durant and they choke against Houston or OKC.
Only chance Durant reverts back to Durcan’t is if someone Crowders his space and makes him unshumpfortable
He shot some insane percentage on contested shots in the Finals last year. Like 60% or something. The Cavs had someone in his face, it’s just hard to get a great contest on a guy that tall. Just need some regression on his part.
But yeah Crowder will certainly help in the Finals.
they had someone: a sagging Richard Jefferson
And we’ve just replaced RJ with Crowder and added Wade and his enormous wingspan to put on Durant. That’s better than anything we could have done last year. This team is deeper and better than even last year’s great Cavs team.
Worth mentioning, Durant with Westbrook Vs Durant with Curry.
In this year’s playoffs KD shot 56% from field, 44% from 3.
Last year those numbers were 43% and 28%.
I am fired up! Let’s go Cavs!
Starting lineup pre january: Rose, Wade, Crowder, Leb, Love. Rose first one out and JR in.
Starting lineup post january: Thomas, Wade, Crowder, Leb , Love. This lineup is going to rain fire on everyone.
Bench lineups of Rose/JR/Crower or Leb/TT/Korver or Green or Shump depending on the matchups are similarly going to rain fire on all other backups. Like the lineup might be the 2nd best in the east.
Cols what’s the Cols714 Over/Under for the season? 74.5 wins? Or is that a little steep
Steep because Wade and LeBron are kind of old and need to rest more. But they were pretty good last year despite having Love and JR miss half the season and relying on guys who suck like the Williamses and giving major minutes to Shumpy.
is “shumpy” new or did I miss that?
Thanks for the recap, JMay – didn’t catch the game.
Do you think Cedi will get 15 min a night on this team?
If he’s good he will. But as a rookie he’s probably just going to have to sit and learn and play a bit in garbage time. Rookies are rarely a plus.
I think 15 minutes is too optimistic given Lue’s track record. I’m thinking <10 with the occasional game around 20-25 because we are resting players.
I worry that there are too many high(er) usage “names” on the team that Lue is going to squeeze into the rotation even if the lineups aren’t fluid. What if none of the Cavs best lineups include:
Wade / Rose / Thomas? Will they play less than 20 min a night? Will they sit out crunch time? I’m just worried they won’t and it will hurt us.
I agree with you. Though I do think that a few of our best lineups will include one or two of those three. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lineup of Thomas, Wade, Bron, Crowder, and Love was one of our best lineups. It will absolutely bleed points but where is the weak point of that lineup offensively?
I just think Wade’s game is a relic of a past time. If you are totally elite you can be a guard and get the majority of your points on mid-range action (think DeRozan). I just think Wade (I have less concerns about Rose, interestingly) is who he is and he’s not going to mold into some hyper focused role player that fits what the Cavs do well offensively. I hope I’m wrong.
The last time I saw LeBron and Wade playing together the Spurs were scoring on 22 of 23 possessions in the Finals…
Wade was broken down in that Finals. This Cavs team is incredibly deep. They should be able to keep him fresh. And his game is still good. There are a million other things you can do on a basketball court besides shoot threes. And he does most of them very well.
does he?
And once again, if Wade sucks, Lue won’t play him that much. Lue’s history is of playing guys that play well and benching guys if they suck.
I do not understand this concern at all. Lue plays guys who are playing well. If people are playing well they will play. When has ever buried anyone good on the bench?
The wildcat offense with RJ, Frye, LeBron, Derrick Williams, and Korver was one of the association’s best regular season lineups. He buried it for no discernable reason and we never saw it in the playoffs. There’s one example.
The thing I love about Lue is that he clearly looks at analytics. The Cavs were 2nd in the NBA last year in three point attempts behind only Houston. This year, instead of staying traditional with TT at center he makes the move to put Love there because the stats show that the offense with Love at center was far superior to any other lineups. Having a coach that is great at out of bounds plays, has respect from his players, and is comfortable making big changes when necessary is pretty awesome.
What about the analytics that said the Wildcat Offense was our most effective lineup all season only to have Lue never use it after, what was it? March?
In the smallest possible sample size against other teams backups with LeBron doing all the heavy lifting? You need anayltics but you can’t be stupid about it.
Well I’d say that’s a bit hyperbolic. They ran that lineup for a whole month. It’s not like they whipped it out one game against the Nets and called it a day…
small sample sizes netted us an all-star, a glue guy, and a high draft pick for Kyrie!
That was a great trade and deemed a great trade by everyone, including every analytical NBA commenter, outside of this blog, FYI.
that doesn’t even make sense in the context of my comment. there’s plenty of opportunities to get your digs in – don’t go hunting for them
The smallest sample size is [1]
This is why I will forever love Kyrie!!!!
Cols do you want the Cavs to keep Perk?
Nope. He has zero shot at being on the roster.
so if they keep him for “toughness” or “the culture” then what will you think of Lue and how he absorbs analytics?
I think it’s totally fine to keep the last two spots for culture and toughness if that’s what Lue thinks helps the team. But I highly doubt they keep Perkins.
Too late now, but I’ve been thinking for the past couple of weeks that it might be interesting to have Shumpert start. I know he is well-beloved on this blog. :) But seriously, I think he played well with the starters last year while JR was out. He constantly hijacks the offense and dribbles too much when he plays with the 2nd team. He doesn’t do this nearly as much with the starters. He also proved in the first 3 months last year that he can be a consistent threat on corner three’s. Also, he may be our best option… Read more »
I actually don’t hate this idea. As a starter, he’s a defensive role player, lane filler, and catch and shoot three point shooter.
Another potential positive is that he would think he is “doing more” for the team without actually doing more.
THANK YOU ARCH—-NEEDED MY MORNING ” CUP OF LAUGHS “
LMAO!
https://twitter.com/HypebeastRelly/status/917554389371510784
On the flip side, if the Indians could get past the Yankees, it could help them moving forward, as long as they don’t play 18 innings, as they burn through their starting pitching.
NEED TO GET TO C.C. EARLY/ GET SOME OF THAT “MOJO ” BACK/ GET THE FANS REVVED UP ——-KLUBER NEEDS TO BE ” CY YOUNG” KLUBER —-GO TRIBE —-INTERESTING TO WATCH THE CAVS STARTERS TONIGHT —-SEE HOW THEY MESH
The tribe basically gave a away a game tonight and wasted a tremendous pitching performance yesterday. A lot of things have to turn around for them to advance. They now have no margin for error. They can’t have any errors tomorrow fielding. Kluber and the pen are going to need to have their best game of the year, but I wouldn’t count on shutting down that team. Judge and Gregorius are probably due. Even if they do limit them to fewer than 3 runs, they are still going to have to hit. The whole team has been anemic on offense… Read more »
Great analysis. Yes, they put themselves in a toss up game. I’m not confident that they advance tomorrow night.
Why in the world are Kipnis and Brantly playing ahead of Austin Jackson? The best Tribe lineup is when Jackson bats at 2. Now it looks like he is not on the roster. Also, the Yankees would have scored at least one less run with AJ in CF.
Agree. Time to move Kipnis back to 2nd, Ramirez at 3rd, and Jackson in CF. They should also have Brantley bat 7-9 range.
Need a big game from Kluber. No one I would rather have. JRam needs to start hitting.
Apparently the NY crowd started chanting “We want Kluber” towards the end.
Dumb, dumb, dumb. Don’t poke the bear.
He’s not LeBron.
Ump wanted to go home.
Emphatically yes. Haven’t seen that many strikeouts looking in a while.
It definitely looked like Indians pitching wasn’t getting the strikes called on the edge of the zone.
Cavs seems like they are going to be great again for the fourth straight year. I really like that Lue is starting Love to see how that works. The lineups with Love at center destroyed everyone last year. Plus we have a real actual bench now with Rose leading the 2nd wave once THOMAS returns.
My hope is that Rose is good enough that they don’t pull him out of the starting lineup. Thomas comes off the bench or is traded.
Lineups with THOMAS are going to be awesome. Dude was great last year on a garbage team. He’s surrounded by more talent at every position this year. I don’t know why you think he’s going to suck.
You have been preaching spacing & now you want Thomas dealt? So Rose can start. Let me guess, Bledsoe?
Just think the dude is worthless in the playoffs.
He’s not. He’s especially not when he’s on a team as talented as this Cavs team.
Nope. He is not.
Check out how he did last year. Not too shabby.
Against crappy teams
Is there really an NFL game with a score of 3-2 in the third quarter? And the Browns aren’t involved?
Kluber won’t let us down on Wednesday. New Star Wars looks awesome
Hopefully not.
You forgot to insult Nate, Delly, or D-Will1. You must be getting tired already.
I think the whole Wade vs. JR in the starting lineup discussion is sort of burying the lead. Lue has officially named Rose a starter, Love a starter, Wade a starter and Crowder a starter…but not Lebron. I think after that mind-blowing dunk by Jeff Green the other day, Lue has perhaps decided to start him over Lebron. Personally, I think it is a good move. Lebron has a broken ankle I believe. I know this because a friend of my sisters boyfriend knows a guy at the Cleveland Clinic who knows the Xray technician who works with another Xray… Read more »
This is good comedy.
Lede, fwiw
https://twitter.com/ZackMeisel/status/917563628768976898
The Astros are the hot team right now. The Indians are trending in the wrong direction.
More bad D costs us a run. 2 base error by Salazar to start. Yanks move him over. Scores on a short fly ball that Kipnis should have yielder to Bruce.
Damn, Lindor lines out. This guy is getting wobbly. If Salazar gets through next inning clean, I think we can tie it.
Perez with a solo shot, 5-3.
Santana with a 2 run homer. Brantley lines out to center to end the inning.
A walk, a bloop & a blast away.
Another reason Diaz would have been a better option than Gonzales. Brantley just isn’t right. I’d consider moving on from Brantley next year. He’s made of glass.
That might help us with a reasonable contract. He was an all-star this year. Keep him if you can. Chisenhall & Jackson are good, fairly cheap cover.
https://twitter.com/ZackMeisel/status/917548004072087552
Time to move Ramirez back to 3rd, Kipnis to 2nd, & play Jackson + Chisenhall in the OF. Or Brantley. Urshela has lost us the game.
Agree.
Hopefully Edwin will be available on Wednesday.
That is insane. Ramirez is vastly better than Kipnis at second, and Urshela is one of the top third basemen. His only bad game ever was tonight. Kipnis is so-so in center, probably cost us tonight. What ever happened to Austin Jackson? Doesn’t he have the second highest BA on the team? And, vastly better than Kipnis in the OF?
I’m done with this game.
Urshela stinks. Take him out of the game. Another error another run.
Still don’t know why Diaz isn’t on this roster?
That error by Urshela really screwed us. Yankees would have zero runs instead of 4 runs.
Francona deserves criticism for his starting pitching rotation. He messed with what worked all year by moving Clevinger into the bullpen for starters. The starters for the first three games should have been the obvious choices: Kluber, Carasco and then Bauer. Why start Bauer on three days rest with both Salazar and Tomlin in the pen? Kluber should still win game 5 for the Tribe, but Terry has made it tougher.
He’s totally outthought himself this offseason
Disagree with both.You can question Kipnis in CF rather than Jackson, and Brantly as DH rather than Kipnis, but the pitching plan was excellent. Kluber does not like to pitch on short rest, and Bauer does. End of story.
Bauer turned out not to be mentally tough enough to overcome an error, and gave up four two out, two strike runs. That is what you get with Bauer, he can be great, but he is still a bit of a head case. Overall, he has gotten a lot better.
I don’t blame Bauer for tonight. It’s on Urshela and the officiating.
Clevinger should’ve been the third starter.
What??? Clevinger has NOT pitched very well in the playoffs this year. Cookie is much better.
I didn’t understand Clevinger into the pen either. Last year he had to work with a short rotation. This year he doesn’t.
Tito’s touch has failed him this game. Time to grind. Hopefully Tomlin/Salazar keep them off the board for 4-5 innings & we can get back in it.
With the way this team is hitting, the Indians are now in jeopardy of losing out in the first round.
Okay time to take him out.
Bauer seems to be imploding now.
That call cost us another run. Might be time for Salazar.
Horrible call.
Ugh! Not a good start.
That was a swing.
Hicks should have been out. He clearly swung through, the crappy umpire gave him 4 strikes.
Gonzalez made a big error as well in Game 2. Though he did make a great play before that.
And the error comes back to bite them. Of course.
You can’t make errors when you’re in for defense.
Yep. Plus, we could have used Diaz’s bat a couple times.
Absolutely. Should have had him on the roster over Gonzales.
I’m not a betting man, but I don’t know if I’d count on the lineup lasting any longer than the first 10 games of the season. Adding Rose and Wade to a starting lineup with Love at the 5—for a team that was one of the 10 worst in the league on defense last season—sounds like a recipe for a stomachache.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/10/9/16449872/cleveland-cavaliers-rose-wade-lebron
To be fair, added Crowder too.
Honestly dont mind that Wade is starting for a few reasons: chemistry with LeBron (not that JR doesnt have chemistry, but Wade will play with more energy with LeBron), JR is OK with the move to the bench, another playmaker to relieve LeBron of ball handling duties early in the game. Lue should have no problem keeping Wade’s minutes at a healthy level if he trusts how deep this team is. Three of JR/TT/Green/Cedi/Korver/Shump with 2 starters should be able to hold down the fort while LeBron rests. If players like Rose, Wade, Korver, Green, Shump focus on max intensity… Read more »
ARE THE 76ER’S GAMBLING WITH EMBIEED HEALTH —WITH THEIR 148 MILLION CONTRACT ( INCENTIVES UP TO 180 MILLION )—ONLY HAS PLAYED IN 31 GAMES ——GREAT UPSIDE / TALENT THERE BUT ALSO A HISTORY OF INJURIES ——SHOULD THE CAVS GAMBLED AND TAKEN HIM IN THE DRAFT ?
I don’t get it. Why do you have to pay him $150 million dollars now? Just see how the season goes.
COLS AND NATE PICKING UP RIGHT WHERE THEY LEFT OFF ——-GOOD TO SEE………BUCKS HENSON WORTH GOING AFTER —-WHO WOULD YOU THROW IN FOR A TRADE– SURE CEDI WOULD HAVE TO BE PART OF THAT DEAL —-GO TRIBE—FINISH IT OFF TONIGHT—REALLY DO NOT WANT A GAME 5 –EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE IN CLEVELAND
Go Tribe!
Not pick too many nits on this nice game summary, but John Holland is not young and developing. He’s already 28 and is probably as good as he is going to ever get. That doesn’t mean he can’t be useful, it just means don’t expect him to get any better than he is right now.
You’re right. I don’t know why I was stuck on Holland being 24 on Sunday night. Should have gone to make sure.
Nate
Yes, having a linup of IT/JR/Crowder/Leb/Love is better than the same with Wade. But since when do lineups with LeBron ever struggle? That is, they don’t need JR to be in that lineup as much as they will need his shooting with the 2nd unit of Rose/JR/TT/Korver/LeBron (or Green when LeBron needs a rest. This is obvious and anyone who owns a Cavs Blog should be educating their readers on why Lue and company mades this decision instead of trying to figure out the funniest way to spin the Cavs as inept.
You don’t even know what the roster is going to look like in January. Worry about January in January. And don’t tell me what to think.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/917502978533330944
I am surprised that a guy who played 30 games on a severe minutes restriction is getting this contract. His health must be looking better.
Yeah. It was dumb. Why not see if the guy can stay healthy another year and pay him next summer?
I agree.
There may be health clauses in contract.
Hope he stays healthy!
Starting Wade and Rose: Cause any time you can roll out a starting back court two career sub 30% 3-point shooters, you have to do it.
I don’t totally understand it, but all three frontcourt players are high-volume above-average 3pt shooters. Should still be plenty of spacing.
Yep. Plus there are other ways to space the floor than just shooting. Wade is a devastating off ball player.
Well duh!
Cols comin’ in hot for his return!
OH MY GOD A COLS SIGHTING —–BIG WELCOME BACK !!!!!!!
Because Rose and Wade will really stretch the floor /s
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/917466753319555072
You realize why they are doing this right? If you’ve been reading real actual information about the Cavs instead of just pulling information out to bash Lue and score points with Nate, you would have found out that they are making Rose the first one off the floor to integrate him more with the 2nd unit. This is so when Thomas is back in January he can start and Rose can be the 2nd team PG like it was intended when they signed him. Thomas/Wade/Crowder/Leb/Love with Rose/JR/TT as the first three off the bench makes tons of sense and has… Read more »
Sounds plausible.
BTW, where can we find this real information you mentioned? I’ve been looking for it everywhere.
Joe Vardon. You can find the link yourself.
Welcome back Cols! I didn’t know my posting could score points with Nate? What do we win?
Good point, Cols. I still don’t like the move cause I fear Wade playing too much. But that is sound stuff. Retract me other post.
How dopey. It’s mainly because Lue has much more influence than he did under Griffin and he is not as big of a believer in the three ball. You can see this influence in the relegation of Channing Frye, the promotion of Wade, and the signing of Jeff Green. He will play Wade and rose too much. It will be sad when they get hurt.
You are so predictable. As usual, just looking to bash Lue and the Cavs. You still refuse to see any evidence that alters your world view of whatever the Cavs are doing it must be wrong.
I’m not for bashing. Just calling it like I see it.
Agree 100% with Nate. Lue is not a good coach. He just says ‘be aggressive’ & rolls the ball out there. Calderon will run the second unit, watch.
So, Love for TT to space the floor. Wade for JR to shrink it. And wear him down.
Agree and JR is a better player than Wade at this point.
That’s not even the point. Who plays well with LeBron? Knock down catch and shoot three point shooters. Just makes no sense unless this is ego placation.
Yeah I agreed with you!
WE ALL LOVE R.J. BUT FATHER TIME UNFORTUNATELY HAS CAUGHT UP WITH HIM—MAKE HIM A COACH/ ADVISOR ETC.—–CREATE SOME SPOTS FOR YOUTH / ATHLETIC PLAYER WITH POTENTIAL TO GROW —-CAN YOU SAY ” ENCHILADA “
Sounds like your talking about guys who won’t play in the playoffs.
For the love of everything. Derrick Williams has been cut from every team he’s played for because he’s not good at basketball. The entire NBA looked at this guy this summer and said “nope”. He sucks. He sucks. He sucks. Unless CtB commenters are better talent evaluators than every single person in the NBA, Derrick Williams sucks. Same goes for Liggins.
Welcome back Cols! Unfortunately the same people who recognized that Derrick Williams sucks, as you said, are the same people giving contracts to players like Shump, Nick Young and Austin Rivers. Those others players ALL suck and somehow they still get contracts handed out to them. Although not all play the same position, I think Derrick Williams is better than all three of them, also better than Jeff Green and maybe, because of father time, RJ. But somehow he’s not in a roster but those guys are. You can’t say that Williams sucks by the logic that he’s not signed,… Read more »
This would or could be true if one or even two teams tried Derrick Williams, found out he sucked, and cut him. But instead it’s been 5 teams that have tried him and found out he sucked.
And no, he’s not better than Jeff Green who at least makes it through entire seasons without getting cut.
Also, this blog bemoans Shump constantly. And with good reason, he was not that good after December last year. But this blog also constantly celebrates Delly. And you know what? They are paid the same. And Shump was better than Delly last year. Like much much better. Yet will anyone on here ever admit it? Nope. If Shump sucks (and he does!), then Delly super sucks. At the very least, Shumpy has the tools to be a good defender and reasonable shooter. So at least we have some hope that he may become good enough. I doubt it ever happens… Read more »
Stop fighting yesterday’s battles.
Nick Young was a great get for the Warriors. Added a viable three point threat to the bench.
While Omri(and Bell) has been natural fit for warriors, Nick young came out of shape and struggled. Jordan Bell has looked very good too.
Nice recap. Thought Cedi looked nice. He was the best passer on the floor that game. Green proved he can be great when he wants to. Zizic has solid footwork, but he needs to go get better hands. The Cavs ran more interesting offense, but they cannot run a pick and roll because Felder get’s swallowed up and has no angles. Calderon just is too slow to go by anyone. Also, when Perk rolls, it’s pretty comical. It’s like it’s happening in slow motion.
Are we lying to ourselves by thinking that RJ has anything left in the tank to compete at a championship level?
Don’t get me wrong, I truly like him as a player and as a person, but do we keep him just for the sake of keeping him? Would his spot be better used on a younger player like Holland?
As far as the rest, I say get rid of Eddy, Kay and Perkins. Find a way to get rid of Shump and figure out what to do with Green.
Well, the thing is, Holland is on a two-way deal that RJ isn’t eligible for. But his value, at this point, is similar to what JFJ was serving for us over the last three seasons. It’s intangible and hard to gauge but at what point do you say it’s more valuable to have a floor contributer. After all, the 15th player on the roster likely won’t get any playing time come playoffs no matter who they are.
True. I guess I was just reacting to the comments about him on the recap. At this point in his career, he’s more valuable as a mentor/NBA veteran, than as a player. Just my opinion.
Whole-heartedly agree with you. My comments were more to reflect my uneasiness about the possibility of them cutting him.
I agree with you on Edy, Kay, and Perkins. Those guys are likely first out already, though.
You can’t evaluate him with that garbage lineup they’re running.
I feel like the mistakes RJ made were independent of the lineup and were physical mistakes that come with a declining body. I’ll give you that air ball that he would have never had to take with a different lineup but his body looked older this time around than last from my eye test.
I think the issues are more from pressing.
I hear what you’re saying about RJ.. They should have someone better, but for some reason they always need him when times get tough. When Shump and Green prove they’re not disciplined enough to be on the court against GSW, and Calderon & Frye keep not playing defense the Cavs will wish they had RJ.
Actually really enjoyed seeing the rest of the squad get serious minutes. Loved Cedi’s game,, he seems most at home when the game is high paced. Also quite impressed by Holland’s shooting.
His stroke looked good yesterday. All of his makes were nothing but net. When he gets in on the rare occasion this season, he’ll have room to shoot. Hopefully he keeps improving.
I did mean to mention, most of Holland’s makes appeared to be mostly uncontested / transition shots – but like you say, on this team he’ll get some of those. On current form I see him as a Frye replacement, since rumour has it Frye is on the backburner, oh man there’s my daily dad joke.
Ya, luckily with the new two-way contracts, Holland can work on making the more difficult threes. I think seeing him hit those open ones without any trouble (he was 3-4), bodes well. The longer NBA range is clearly not going to be an issue for him and his stroke looks solid.