Live Thread: Cavs vs Pistons
2021-01-27#Pistons Blake Griffin (injury mgmt) and Saben Lee (2-way) along with Killian Hayes are OUT tonight. #Cavs Kevin Love (calf strain), Matthew Dellavedova (concussion) and Larry Nance Jr. (right wrist sprain) are OUT. #DFS
— Rod Beard (@detnewsRodBeard) January 27, 2021
Garland back in the starting lineup with Cedi coming of the bench. Should be interesting. Let’s take more threes! Power to the players!
LT is up…
thanks EG!
Espn RPM data out. Seems off. I am highly skeptical Cedi has had a better impact than Nance or that Garland and Nance have some of the lowest impacts on the team. Okoro is no doubt suffering from the rookie lack of priors thing. Sexton of course almost certainly has had one of the biggest impacts. Hard to say about Allen and Prince since I didn’t watch much BKN. Suspect the EPM stat CLF found is probably more accurate just based off the numbers it has for Nance, Allen, and Cedi as well as the fact it apparently uses tracking… Read more »
I think what can be said about Cedi is that he’s been better than what meets the eye initially… low key, he helped carry the Cavs along with Drummond and Nance (lesser extent McGee) thru the guard injuries.
I mean yeah, I buy that. But more impactful than Nance….I dunno about that. Some of Cedi’s bad games have been really really bad.
well of course, RPM pretty much been debunked from what I can gather from NBA stat nerds. RAPTOR has more credibility from what I can gather, which is surprising to me.
According to that predictive study you linked to by the EPM guy, Raptor uses tracking. Obviously EPM does as well. May explain the difference.
And in fact Raptor is much more in line with EPM just based off the search I did.
At least as far as Nance, Allen, Sexton, Prince, Dre. Garland ahead of Cedi. Still a negative, but for him all of it may be skewed by last year.
Garland ahead of Cedi is due to this season being weighted more heavily then IMO
BACON THE OLD SAYING “—-PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT “——IS INACCURATE ——-” PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT “—–IF YOU ARE PRACTICING AND STILL MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES / DOING THINGS INCORRECTLY YOU WILL NEVER GET BETTER —IT REALLY IS WHEN YOU BREAK DOWN EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME / MINUTELY —-AND DO THE BORING / REPETITIVE DRILLS CORRECTLY IS WHEN YOU WILL IMPROVE / BECOME ELITE —HOPE HIS ATTITUDE / WORK ETHNIC WEARS OFF ON THE OTHER PLAYERS
interesting game tonight, Cavs clearly have the better roster, but do they have the mentality to come out and take care of business.
If Nance is out, obviously that evens out the matchup quite a bit.
Sexton’s interview on the Lowe post gives me so much hope for Sexton’s production being real. The story about how he drills 10 shots and then runs sprints and then 10 shots and not only has to make the shots, but has to make them perfectly and the shots have to feel perfect coming off his hands is exactly the kind of psychotic, no excuses, boringly repetitive effort you have to put in to become an elite NBA player. It is one thing to be a hard worker, it is another to actually recognize how you have to practice and… Read more »
His production is definitely real. Large enough sample dating back to last year as far as scoring.
Any news on Love? They said 3-4 weeks and that was back in December. We are at 4+ now.
They said re-evaluated in 3-4 weeks. Last week I heard at some point in Feb (which is soon at least).
Sounds like 2-3 weeks away without setbacks to get him in game shape.
he better have been doing some freaking yoga good God.
CLF–TOTALLY SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT HALIBURTON–( WAS ON HIS BANDWAGON BEFORE THE DRAFT ALSO )—STILL THINK ICE WILL EVENTUALLY COME AROUND OFFENSIVELY -( SHOOTING PRIMARILY )— AKA : LOOK AT SEXTON NOW COMPARED TO ROOKIE SEASON —-AND ICE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT A BETTER DEFENDER AND COMPOTENT PASSER —THINK CAVS MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE ( ESPECIALLY LONG TERM ) WITH DRAFTING ICE
That’s a fair point of course, Okoro is a year younger than Hali, and I agree there’s more upside with Okoro because of his athleticism.
Is there any truth to the Drummond buyout rumors? It seems insanely stupid to me with the way he’s playing…if they can’t trade him why wouldn’t they just keep him this season and let him walk…what kind of message are you sending the team if you care more about saving a few bucks than winning…I get it if they trade him but a buyout would be incredibly disappointing and detrimental to the team…
Totally agreed. Buyout talk seems totally silly and wishful thinking from some other teams.
Say what you will about Dan Gilbert…he is not that cheap to tank the team to sell a few dollars, and he’s shown that.
Until some credible source reports it, no, I don’t think there’s any truth to it.
EPM data as of today:
Top 100:
Allen – #34 (+2.8)
Drummond – #82 (+1.4)
Sexton – #87 (+1.3)
Prince – #93 (+1.2) <<<< get this man more playing time.
Nance – #96 (+1.2)
Top 150:
Windler – #144 (+0.2) <<<< get this man more playing time.
Top 300:
Osman – #170 (-0.2)
McGee – #173 (-0.3)
Garland – #270 (-1.9) <<<< bad priors
Dotson – #276 (-2.1)
Wade – #300 (-2.7)
Outside 300:
Okoro – #338 (-3.6)
It’s funny that we had zero competent wings last year, and now we have 3 apparently LMFAOOO.
Love Okoro, but Halliburton (#191, -0.6 EPM) would’ve fulfilled a desperate need for a perimeter playmaker.
Even with Sexland’s growth, still missing another on ball creator.
Another on ball creator would be really helpful, but after the last couple years, I’ll take defense and transition points.
The Cavs definitely need a little more independent offense, but damn isn’t it nice to see lockdown defense more often than turnstile defense?
can’t argue a bit with that!!!! defensive effort goes a long way!
I wonder if it was Drummond’s agent that was the source of the report… maybe trying to orchestrate a buyout.
Funny that Drummond would be the perfect fit for them, and his offensive antics would be limited there I’d think.
They would be scary with a defensive presence like that.
yup, not sure how they’d be stop with an acquisition like that other than injury.
So sick of a lot of the trade rumor stuff…
If this streak of good play doesn’t fall apart, I just really hope they can run it back next season with as much of the roster as possible.
Allen is a restricted free agent, so they can control that, but I REALLY hope they can keep Prince. And despite Drummond’s screwups, if the Cavs can hold on to him they will keep an insane 1-2 punch at Center.
The young Cavs just keep getting better. Retaining the status quo for the roster should just make the team keep getting better.
Prince is signed through next season for $13,000,000, so they can keep him if they want. The problem with Drummond+Allen is just total salaries. They are at 90 million next year without Drummond or Allen, $40 million between them puts them at $130,000,000 next year and then they have Sexton’s extension the following year which is looking like a max deal, plus Prince is a UFA, which would put them ~ 145-155 range to maintain this team for 2 years from now, which at least would be Love’s last year and they could move him but that next season after… Read more »
Good assessment. Part of what I meant to say though was also about rumors of a Drummond buyout. I have no idea why they would do that. In any event, you’re right, the numbers get messy and look unlikely for next year. My biggest point is that I’m sick of the random speculation that writers pass off as truth…unfortunately, something will have to be done, as you said, unless the Cavs think they can win a chip in the next year or so, and I’m not even enough of a homer to believe that. Though maybe Drummond can screw up… Read more »
THANK YOU JASON—–WATCHING ICE SHOOT HIS FREE THROWS LAST NIGHT —-STILL NOT A COMPLETE SMOOTH STROKE —-STILL WANTS TO ADD TOO MUCH WRIST IN HIS STROKE / CREATES A MINOR HITCH —HIS FOLLOW THRU IS GOOD —JUST NEEDS SOME REFINEMENTS WITH GOOD QUALITY REPS
Of course, shooting splits are only a part of a player evaluation. Defense, passing, volume, BBIQ, rebounding, clutch, etc are not considered.
Okoro has not played 15 games yet, nor has Windler, and they both are contributing to Ws now. Heck, Garland is well shy of 82 as well.
Player: True Shooting%; 2Pt%, 3Pt%, FT% 1. Allen: 73.0%; 69.4%, n/a, 90% 2. Windler: 70.3%; 71.4%, 42.9%, 100% 3. Prince: 68.4%; 47.1%, 50.0%, 87.5% 4. Sexton: 61.3%; 53.0%, 47.2%, 81.1% 5. Nance Jr: 60.3%; 57.5%, 42.1%, 57.1% —————————– 6. Garland: 52.1%; 43.7%, 40.9%, 92.9% 7. Osman: 51.7%; 43.2%, 36.5%, 73.3% 8. Dotson: 51.1%; 55.0%, 30.0%, 66.7% 9. Wade: 50.2%; 40.0%, 35.0%, 100% 10. Drummond: 50.1%; 48.7%, 0%, 58.6% 11. Okoro: 49.7%; 46.7%, 29.7%, 67.7% 12. McGee: 49.3%; 46.9%, 30.8%, 58.3% 13. Love: 47.0%; 33.3%, 33.3%, 80%. ================== Stephens at 47.1% TS. Exum was 42.8% KPJ at 53.5% last year. Love… Read more »
Windler looks pretty great for a late 1st round pick who missed a ton of time with injuries. Steals, super efficient (super low volume) scoring, good rebounding for his position. The FO has been killing the draft picks.
SO GOOD TO SEE COLLIN ” AMPED ” AFTER THE WINDLER BASKET/ SHOWING HIS MATURITY AS A PLAYER / WANTS TO LEAD THIS TEAM —LNJ REALIZES WINDLERS ‘UNSUNG ” TALENTS —LNJ PLAYS THE SAME WAY —PRINCE MAY / WILL PROBABLY LEVEL OFF BUT ALSO THINK HIS CONFIDENCE HAS GROWN SINCE HE ARRIVED HERE / KNOWING THE MIN’S ARE GOING TO BE THERE FOR HIM / AND THINK JB’S COACHING / INFLUENCE HAS ALSO HELPED HIM
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/01/taurean-prince-proving-to-be-more-than-throw-in-piece-of-jarrett-allen-trade.html
Interesting. I don’t think this a a move conducive to getting to the playoffs. And you would at least want to try to get a second for him. Especially for a team that badly needs a defensive big. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2928625-andre-drummond-rumors-cavs-c-linked-to-nets-as-buyout-candidate-amid-trade-buzz Zach Harper from the athletic seems sure. O’Connor is doubtful. Would think McGee would be more likely. After all why buy him out when his contract comes off the books at the end of the year anyway, unless this is a move to miss the playoffs and tank a bit. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Either you trade him and… Read more »
It’s dumb. Cavs shown no indication a buyout for drum is in the plans. NY media throwing crap at the wall
Yep. Buying Drummond out is dumb. Nate is right. That is NY media just trying to stir the pot so the Nets get a free lunch. No dice. If Dre wants to play for a contender, he needs to do 1 (or two, of 3 things): 1) Up his game. He ain’t worth $25 mil per with this level of TOs & inefficiency. 2) Alter his game. Be better w/out the ball. Dribble less. Up Def intensity. Shoot less. Roll & screen better. 3) Lower salary demands. He clearly is trying for path #1, while I think going #2 &… Read more »
Drummond’s efficiency is way up since he sat the UTH game. Sexton/Garland returning has really helped. Overall his scoring efficiency isn’t going to be great, but his TS is misleading because he grabs more Oreos and steals than most bigs. Taking his Orebs/STLs minus his TOs and he gets the Cavs 3.6 more possessions per 100 than he loses them. Last night his ‘efficiency’ was awful, but he had 6 orebs and 5 steals vs 4 TOs. Between shots, steals, FTs, TOs Orebs his 23 points cost the Cavs 21 net possessions.
The reason I think we hang onto Dre is, I think the FO hopes/thinks there is a chance he goes the #2/#3 route. If he does, he is well worth keeping.
He has not had a lot of PO success in Det. His age is comprable to LNJ. If he tastes POs here and wants more, and can be sold on #2/#3 route, do it.
It may be a long shot, but that is a gamble I’d take rather than getting nothing (or a late 2nd) for him.
Even if he leaves you can S&T him for a TPE and make rebuilding easy. No one has cap space of a TPE large enough to fit him in so we are taking back a lot of salary in that trade. I would rather give up a low value 2nd to bring in a TPE this offseason than take a 2nd and crappy salary. If someone isn’t offering a significant asset back I don’t see why the Cavs would both be willing to get worse this year and have less flexibility moving forward.
Nah TT is going to get bought out by the Cavs any day now and sign with the Celtics. Oh sorry, wrong year.
Bonehead wishful thinking speculation from people that just want an interesting story.
Maybe the Cavs trade Drummond for one reason or another, but the only reason to buy him out is if Koby gets a head injury.
Taurean Prince is a silent killer…. just watched his interview, competitive and has great bball IQ.
Also interesting comment from JB about how the team needed his personality. Can’t believe the Nets didn’t play him.
Seriously wondering how good he is really. Not a slight, just not sure what kind of player he really is. Obviously when he’s nailing 3s, he’s valuable.
He’s a 17/6/5/3(stocks) (per 36min) for the Cavs right now playing like an elite wing.
I don’t think it’s sustainable… unless????
He’s shooting 50% from 3 with the Cavs, with a TS of almost 67% (with the Cavs)…doubt that continues…but he still could be a good player even after those number normalize…
Prince’s last two seasons in Atlanta he put up similar numbers, with a bit of regression. Certainly seems sustainable.
Prince was a ‘failed to progress’ player in ATL. His sophomore season was solid and year 3 he flatlined, and a big part of that was Trae Young coming on board and some injuries. Prince’s USG dropped from 22-19% which is the opposite of what happens to most lottery selected 3rd year wings so it is very possible that he stalled out developmentally due to circumstances, got pegged by the league as a 3+D wing and that is what BRK pegged him as. Jermami Grant is showing that not everyone who gets slotted in that role has maxed out in… Read more »
I’ve always liked him for this response to a borderline racist trolling question.
Good guy LNJ.
It’s fun watching Windler play.
Just a good basketball player. Cavs need to get him a little more involved. Such a bummer he’s missed so much time.
yeah, last year sucked so bad.
Things you thought you’d never read.
Spurs beat the Celtics. Enjoyable.
love it! Keldon Johnson baby!
Kevin Porter Who?
this was the play Sexton read from the jump….. beautiful chemistry and execution.
That’s the drag screen in transition. I hope we get him coming off planned set off ball screens in the half court more instead of just standing in the corner or wings. I think that would help our spacing issues if he starts draining catch and shoots and would help up our trey attempts. Wouldn’t rely so much on guards vision if it is a planned action, even as a decoy.
ICE’S OFFENSE WILL COME AS HE GETS MORE PLAYING TIME / CONFIDENCE —MAN HE DOES GO STRONG WITH HIS LEFT HAND —-DRE GOOD POST GAME INTERVIEW ( QUITE ARTICULATE )–ADMITTED HE HAD A TERRIBLE SHOOTING NIGHT ——BEEN FUN BUT HEY THE MRS NOMAD WAS “WARNED “–HAVE TO GO –AS SHE ALWAYS SAYS / REMINDS ME —-” THE OLDER I GET …..THE BETTER I WAS” : – ) LATER GUYS
You freaking goofball