Links to the Present: Central Division Edition (and NBA Finals Game 1 Thread)
2021-07-06It’s early July and the NBA Finals are about to be begin. Having outlasted the Durantian fury of Brooklyn, and then stomped all the agility out of the Atlanta Hawks even without their superstar, the Milwaukee Bucks at last represent the Eastern Conference in the promised land. But is that all that they represent? For purposes of this post, Milwaukee is already flying a championship banner, representing that curious — perhaps even almost obsolete — NBA unit, the division.
Here are a handful of stories and links to the present on the rosters and outlook for the Central Division in the coming year, with a few thoughts on how our Cleveland Cavaliers performed against each of their divisional foes in the 2020-21 season.
Milwaukee: From the statistical and metaphorical standpoints, the Cavs look up to this team as if to Olympus Mons: it is not just a towering volcano, but on another planet altogether. Cleveland finished a whopping 24 games back in the Central division standings from Milwaukee. The last time they beat Milwaukee the Cavs were coached by Larry Drew. The Cavs lost their three matches to the Bucks last year by a combined 53 points. It is hard to imagine how the Cavs will etch out a victory, let alone a competitive game, against this team in the coming regular season. On the player movement side of the ledger, one can pray that the Cavs do not look to pick up free agent Jeff Teague as backup point guard; his performance in spot minutes against Trae Young in the conference finals did not inspire confidence.
Indiana: After a little drama in Dallas, Rick Carlisle is now in the East, which is probably bad news for Cleveland. Last year Carlisle’s Doncic-laden Mavs comprehensively dismantled Cleveland in their two games, and the Cavs were 0-3 against the Pacers last year. Domantas Sabonis is probably going to continue to outmatch and frustrate Kevin Love, Malcom Brogdon is seasoned and in his prime, Caris LaVert averages 20 points and 5 assists a night, and Carlisle seems excited to work with Miles Turner. The Pacers also have T.J. Warren (who has shredded Cavs defenses in the past) waiting in the wings after a season nursing a stress fracture in his foot.
Leaving aside questions about size in the roster as a whole, King James Gospel has a reasonably good breakdown on why the Cavs should pursue the 29-year old Pacers backup guard (and Cavs killer) T.J. McConnell and offer him something like $10 million a year or $7 million a year in a multi-year deal. Whether the Pacers will let him go is another matter — he led the league in steals, etc. Doug McDermott, another Pacers free agent who some Cleveland fans might wish to target for some shooting on the wing, played for Carlisle for a few months in 2017-18. A deep dive on Carlisle’s offensive sets indicates that McDermott might still be a very desirable fit in Indy if he doesn’t find another contract to his liking.
Chicago: Chicago’s sheer size and cacophony demands mixed metaphors, oodles of them. After the great orgasm of the trade deadline, Bulls fans seemed convinced they had swung big and would be making noise in the Eastern Conference playoffs. This didn’t happen — Zach LaVine was out for long stretches and Nikola Vucevic could not get them over the top. Having unintentionally tanked, this year they don’t have a first-round pick in the draft, having traded it away like a drunken gambler. In 2020-21, the staggering Cavs managed to beat the irrationally confident Bulls in two of their three matchups, including an instant classic when J.B., having disclosed nothing, stepped out for personal reasons leading to a glorious win for “Coach Buck“, after which the Cavs the Blog squad put together a particularly joyous podcast. The gnashing of teeth in Chicago clashed with the clinking of glasses in Cuyahoga County’s metaphorical peripheries, and Billy Donovan had no answers. The Bulls current roster, like Al Capone’s Chicago, is loaded with mercenaries, featuring no fewer than ten free agents, including the restricted and enigmatic Lauri Markkanen. Markkanen, having lost his starting gig last year, is yet a potent shooter from the corners. And still he seems to be taking it all passively, like the Swedish boxer in Hemingway’s “The Killers,” having gotten mixed up in something in Chicago, lying down staring at the wall, saying only “There ain’t anything to do now.” However, in reality Markkanen is surely hoisting hundreds of jump shots a day and resists the urge to hover over clickbait articles which insist on sending him to San Antonio. Actually, forget the metaphors and the jumble of Chicago — it is probably folly to run too many scenarios for next year vs. Cleveland; at the very least, they do look primed to ink Zach LaVine to a multi-year deal and will be well coached.
Detroit: This team is probably Cleveland’s true peer in the division, as the Cavs finished only a couple of games ahead in the standings and were also at similar points in the grand tankathon. The Cavs went 2-1 against the Pistons last year, winning a barnburner in double-OT near the beginning of the season and then losing a tough game in April in which Saddiq Bey hit six three-pointers in the first quarter and made viewers question the meaning of existence.
Apart from getting the number one pick in the upcoming NBA draft, the news of significance from Detroit is that Jerami Grant has been selected to participate in the Olympic Games, alongside Cavs champ Kevin Love (a placement which is a Very Good Thing for the Cavs organization, hands down). Grant was voted second in most improved player category this past year. Grant faced the Cavs only one time this past season, scoring 26 in a bad game for the Pistons in which they gave up 22 turnovers and he, Grant, was outscored by Collin Sexton. Detroit looks unlikely to trade Grant, although he is making $20 million a year and could, as one survey of the offseason indicated, net a couple of first round picks for the Pistons in a trade from the likes of the Knicks if they wanted to.
Back to the backup point guard theme, the Pistons’ Cory Joseph is a 30 year old backup point guard and the kind of player Cavs might be looking to pick up. Detroit seemed to think he was a good fit, but if they draft Cunningham as expected, there is a possibility Pistons will buy out Joseph for $2.4 million next year (assuming he stays on the roster after 1 August), rather than pay him north of $12 million. Detroit is likely to be over the cap. Speaking of salaries, it has now been about nine months since the Detroit Pistons stopped paying Josh Smith not to play basketball for them. Congratulations to Detroit on having hit this milestone; the Cavs are not quite there yet with J.R. Smith, who is still on their books this year of 2021-22 eating up $1,456,666 in dead cap space.
The Central Division is hardly a perfect crucible in which to forge a championship team, but as Cleveland fans can attest, it’s been done before. Best of luck to the Milwaukee Bucks, and all hail the East.
Just posted a new draft profile and open thread for tonight and tomorrow night… enjoy!
Good on Garland for getting the promotion to the full team. Hope this ends up being a positive for him, and the Cavs.
Sounds like it has been reading his and Love’s comments. Talked about getting coached by Spo and Pop, going against Lillard, playing with Lillard and Lavine. Love gave him great advice about how to succeed in that situation.
Very excited to see what he learned next season, I think his decision-making will go to another level hopefully.
Great opportunity for him. A lot of other players are going to see how good he is.
this Finals reminds me of Cavs-Warroirs where GS just had extra step and got to loose balls/long rebounds more often and Cavs were just standing around a bit. Giannis balling out and no one else stepping up enough is Lebron again. Game 3 will be very interesting, in Milwaukee, maybe they steal one but I think Suns win this in 5.
I think main difference in this series is Phoenix does dumb stuff far less often.
I mean, roughly 110 possessions per game, per team. Phoenix does dumb stuff on like 5 of them, 10 max. And a lot of the is CP3 and his effect on the team.
Meanwhile, for the Bucks it is more like 15. 20 counting defensive miscues.
And that is the ballgame.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1413453520037023753?s=20
Yep. Maybe my favorite Cav of all time. Nance Sr or Andy or Delly.
WOW, Booker, Ayton, CP3…. balled the hell out… same with Giannis, but Jrue and Middleton can’t get buckets.
So, Giannis had 20 in game 1, and 40 in game 2. So, sixty for game 3?
If Craig is out a while, Suns are getting kinda thin up front.
Almost got 8nteresting. Suns got 3 looks at triples & cashed one. Block & bucket. Up double digits again.
This is close to getting real interesting.
Bucks had it down 6. Instead of feeding Giannis they got a Connaughton triple miss.
Refs miss obvious 24 sec violation. Giannis gets a tweak blocking a shot that never should have happened & has to sit. Lead goes from 5 to 10.
Bucks TO.
No help for Giannis. Well, aside from Connaugton.
They are still in it, however. Despite Phoenix making a ton of triples. Sun’s ball movement is so good it generates a ton of good looks. Spursian.
jrue 4-17 ?? melting in the heat of the moment..
add Middleton to that list too
Middleton has been the one stinking it up. Holiday is a big value on defense.
True… he at least had some stocks.
y.. 4-13.. sad.. the statistics of which nightmares are made..
NOMAD bro.. don’t the overwhelming majority of young NBA players need age like fine rolling rock (in bottles, of course) ??
worst to first.. it can be accomplished.. with professionals who understand the dynamical system they are operating within.. with fools and pretenders.. they will fail until all matter degrades into photons.. its gonna be a long haul in the 216.. but i have my PHX merch, and am wearing it proudly..
Crowder flops on threes as much as any guy in the league. And he blows to boot. Screw that guy, forever.
When it comes right down to it: Giannis just does not look ready to dominate & win a chip. Paul & his crew do.
I think Giannis isn’t 100%, but I get what you mean.
It’s as much Bud as it it Giannis. The lack of discipline to stick to Giannis’s strengths kills them.
oh yeah, I think they also miss Divincenzo… small ball lineup missing him.
They have problems they need to work out.
No doubt they miss Donte. He can harass CP3 and Booker. Shoot a bit. Athletic. Great hustle guy. He starts for a reason.
Yup… 100%
Absolutely
20 pt quarter. Most in Finals quarter in last 25 years. Or was it 20 years? Anyway, that post did not age well.
More a comment on how he / Bucks have been utilising his skillset throughout the playoffs. It’s been quite maddening watching them use him the right way for a half or almost full game, then lose the plot. They stand a chance if they stop doing this (and also get him some consistent help).
Every made Crowder three is a crime against the game.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I find it in incredible there is a good chance he is about to be part of a championship roster…
DELLY SIGNING WITH MELBOURN ——SAD THAT CAVS DIDN’T // COULDN’T HIRE HIM AS A COACH—MAYBE DOWN THE ROAD—–GOOD LUCK DELLY—-THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT MEMORIES !!!!!
Interesting- he said yesterday on a podcast that he would be looking to stay in the NBA as a player. Played his cards close! Yeah, sad his days in CLE look over, but will be great having him back in the NBL here.
Cleveland DOT com and Bleacher Reports reporting Cavs are “serious” about trading up to #1.
Bombshell report…. Cavs should do it if all it takes is Sexton, #3, and a future first.
make that Sexton OR a future first
A question that looms large is whether Houston already promised to draft Green.
I get the impression Detroit wants Mobley maybe Suggs over Cade, which is very interesting from a draft board pov.
They should be. Cade & Green are the best fits for our roster. And trading Sexton makes a ton of sense if you land either one.
JUST ‘THROWIN MY 2 BITS IN “——–AGREE GREEN WILL ‘SHINE ‘ BETTER THE FIRST FEW YEARS —–THINK MOBLEY WILL CATCH UP—-PUT WEIGHT / MUSCLE ON/ LEARN THE NBA GAME / ETC ——–HOW MANY YEARS BEFORE GIANNIS STARTTED TO ‘WOW ‘ US AND MOBLEY IS AY AHEAD OF HIS CURVE
yeah good point, Giannis broke out at age 22, which makes sense that’s when he really grew into his frame.
Mobley will probably struggle until he gets his adult muscles… and even then, Allen is built similarly and still struggles with strength at times. But in spite of the lack of strength, still a plus defender, which is why I’m not worried about Mobley.
I do not think Mobley is a straight 5. More of a big wing. At least to start out. Does not have the ballast to defend Jokic or Embiid.
He can’t even set a pick. Nate will hate him.
The game is completely different nowadays, but he looks exactly like a 19 year old Ralph Sampson to me, except he has a more modern game rather than a killer post up game. He’s Sampson if Sampson was 20 years old now, and grew up in this era’s game.
His ceiling is very high, but he will have to max out some of his potential skills. If he doesn’t do that, he could be a guy who never finds a role/ position.
Also, he doesn’t have the ballast to stop college players, although he can still block/ impact their shot…he has no chance whatsoever right now to get in the way of guys like Embiid.
I disagree. His maximum value is the potential to play on the perimeter as a 5 to draw defenders out or punish them for not defending the perimeter. as to whether he can guard Jokic or Embiid, literally no one in the NBA can guard those guys… best you can do is make them work. Mobley’s agility and length to change shots means he doesn’t have to bang with guys to defend the rim. Also it’s a question that probably will take 5 years to get any type of meaningful answer. The idea of drafting Mobley this high is predicated… Read more »
My point is that he is a 4, not a 5. At least for a couple years. It ain’t just Joker & Joel he is too small for, but Nurk, Jonas, Valancunas, Ayton, Gobert, Drummond, Gasol, etc.
He is too skinny. He is gonna have to play WITH one of Allen, Love, Nance, & Hart the vast majority of the time.
Disagree on last o v d. His D is way ahead of his O. No indication he’ll ever be a franchise guy offensively.
I know, I just disagree… he’s a 5. Not saying he doesn’t need to put on weight in the future.
But if you’re saying he has no offense and can’t defend 5s, then there’s no reason to consider him a top 3 pick.
What I’m saying is the whole reason there’s talk about him going top 3 is because he has Jokic type of potential on offense. He can handle like a guard, has a jumper, and has playmaking instincts.
If that happens, it is years down the road. We need to keep Allen and another C. I mean, some nights, he’d be fune at the 5 (Capela). Or vs backups. But he is not a strong rebounder. At the 4 he takes minutes from Nance & Love and his ability to space the floor is almost entirely imaginary. He shot 30% from deep on limited attempts. Does have decent form and decent FT%. You’d get a lot of lineups with Mobley + Okoro plus another C or Nance. Ugly spacing. Houston is likely going Green. Which would leave us… Read more »
I think getting Hartenstein and the #3 pick was a game changer… the ability to get Mobley, keep Hartenstein is much cheaper with higher upside than paying Allen.
And I 100% agree with your Mobley at the 4 take, which is why he should be exclusively seen as a 5.
The rub is he is too skinny to play the 5 at the moment. He won’t help us much in terms of wins until he fills out (thus he can play the 5) or gets a jump shot (thus he can play the 4).
He’s not guarding the perimeter, which he would have to do playing the 4… and he’s not getting consistent mismatches as a 4 even if he has a jumper.
Nice divisional summary. Like “The Killers” reference about Markkanen.
Major bummer about Saric; robbed of playing out the finals. All the more frustrating because early on in the play he got injured on, it looked like he could have likely scored if he had just committed to finishing. Instead he changed his mind and got forced in to some awkward arobatics. Haven’t seen the replay of it though, so maybe I’m misremembering it.
GOODNIGHT TRIBE—–COME BACK NEXT YEAR HEALTHY AND STRONGER !!
agree. it is astonishing how well they have done with minimal to modest talent, which I attribute to Tito. But it is time to tank for 21. Leave the three good pitchers on IL for a long time, and see if any of the younger guys can figure it out.
https://twitter.com/SBN_Ricky/status/1412825851062898689?s=20
O’Donnell was on PD Web’s channel about a week ago to do a lengthy breakdown of Mobley, which, while long, is the best examination I’ve seen of him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQ5geOzinQ&ab_channel=PD
It’s a good breakdown. Has a high ceiling, but I agree with them that the difference in today’s NBA of elite center (Embiid, Gobert, Jokic) and just a pretty good center is pretty large.
And an elite center is probably the only center worth a top three in today’s game. If he hits that he is obviously worth it. But that will really depend a ton on coaching, scheme, and his own personal development.
We’ll see. Maybe a legacy series for point god,
Please don’t cut to close ups of the fans. Nobody wants to see those dorks.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOo
https://twitter.com/Patrick_Fenelon/status/1412609723132788738?s=20
It was comical. They got no calls going to the hoop and Paul & Booker could not be touched.
Suns have another gear tonight that the Bucks haven’t been able to match. Crowd is into it. Fun game.
yup, CP3 and Ayton masterclass >>>>>>>
Wow. Probably the best Amico tweet in four years.
HELL of a block by Giannis…Lebron like.
Also, Crowder is super annoying, as he has been his entire career. Not annoying in a good way, either.
HELL YEAH WHAT A PLAY!!!
Also funny that I just discovered the Bucks and Suns were the two best defenses in the playoffs by drtg….. defense wins championships agenda is back >>>>>>>>>
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1412592389936533504?s=20
Man, reading this just made me realize how far we are from being Indiana haha.
I feel like we all need to temper expectations on a playoff push until at least 2023. To make the playoffs (82 game season) we would have to jump our wins by at least 15 games. Even if things break right (health, development, nail the pick) who honestly sees that happening?
A roughly average team that runs an NBA offense (threes, ball movement) and competes on defense and at ease doesn’t have the BS drama from last year is a success to me.
yeah, i think it’s at least a 5 year project to get back to a contending level…. and that’s if the Cavs do the rebuild right…. if they screw it up??? who knows
hell yeah loving the energy to start,
Lol. Giannis looks fine.
Corny intro but got snippets of the shot and the block in there so… love it. Still get goosebumps from it.
Greatest championship ever
that’s right!!!
Nice piece.
Giannis is a go. He cannot be 100%. But gonna give it a go. I hope he does not injure it further.
Good stuff Adam!
Speaking of Markennen, talking with NBA chat, it was discovered that he has a similar problem KLOVE has with the Cavs. Markennen is one of the best post-up players in the NBA, but is forced to be a spot up shooter in Chicago’s offense.
If there’s a team willing to let Markennen post up, he could see a career renaissance.
Among players who played more than half the season, Markennen ranked 5th in the NBA in post-up PPP (1.27). Only player ranked ahead of him with more post-ups possessions than him was Gordon Hayward.