Podcast Episode 244: Eli & Chris’ Draft Board Special
2021-07-21The ole’ ball coach Nate Smith goes Dan Gilbert/Wizard of Oz mode and leaves CtB veterans Elijah Kim and Chris Francis the keys to the CtB Podcast lair, which leads promptly to a 2021 NBA Draft extravaganza!
First off, Eli and Chris check in with a live update on Team USA’s final game against Spain before the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. Then they break down the Bucks’ victory in Game 5 of the NBA Finals (recorded Monday) and pay homage to one of the greatest in the game today, Giannis Antetokounmpo.
Then for the main course, Eli and Chris reveal their 2021 NBA big boards. Eli has the scoop on all the consensus top picks, while Chris demonstrates the beginning of a possibly unhealthy obsession with finding the elusive unicorn, “two way playmaking wing.”
So sit back and relax with your favorite beverage, and get all the info you need about the 2021 NBA Draft… GO CAVS!
Listen below, download the full audio file, or check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, and Spotify.
New Pod just dropped, the embedding on the player isn’t working yet but I’m trying to get it fixed my apologies, the links works though if you just copy and paste to your browser.
Nice trade for NO. They get the best player (Jonas) and shed $20 million from their cap sheet. And he’s an expiring. Especially if you don’t see that big a difference from 10 to 17. All it costs then is late first (Lakers 2022) and swapping 2nds & 1sts this year with Memphis.
Pels need to start winning befire Zion bolts. They will take that cash & try to bring in a vet.
Don’t like it as much from the Grizz side. Adams is serviceable but has 2 years left and is a downgrade from Jonas. Bledsoe can be gone after a year for a $3.9 mil hit. He was awful last year. They must really covet someone in the #10 range.
yup, it’s the perfect spot IMO in the draft… a wing is gonna fall… supposedly it’s Giddey, which would be a nice piece to add.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1419757341667430410?s=20
Sounds like Bledsoe will be let go, and there is interest from the Sixers in signing him…
that tracks IMO
Yes, because they need another defensive PG who cannot shoot & chokes in the POs.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1419756065625972747?s=20
Nice move for Memphis, they’re gonna take whomever falls to them…. could be Giddey, Sengun, Johnson, Wagner, Barnes, Kuminga, Moody???
Like it for both squads
true, got off of two bad contracts and replaced with a superior player on an expiring.
For me, I’d have these guys as off limits in terms of trades: Garland, LNJ, Allen, Okoro, #3 pick.
Open for business on everyone else.
I do not think Sexton will garner a top 10 pick. Mid teens at best. Jalen Johnson might still be in play. Some flags there.
Much rather try for a late first and take the kid from Tennessee, Springer.
did you hear that Sexton is a top 20 scorer in the NBA?
LMFAOOOOOo that’s right someone make an offer the Cavs can’t refuse!!!
I personally would say only DG and #3 are the untouchables, and I use the term untouchable loosely TBH.
But the Nance trade talk has gotten as dumb as the Sexton trade talk.
when you are a member of multiple 20 or less win teams you are never untouchable…i’d say Okoro cause he’s a rook but outside of that get better pieces where you can. NBA teams are still dumb and desperate.
Luka with 31 in a half and his team is up 22 on Argentina…. LMFAOOOO
#3 pick
But should have been #1 with a bullet. And that isn’t revisionist history.
Nothing against Ayton or Young, but Luka was the best player in that draft by a country mile, and it was readily apparent at the time.
Of course, the Suns & Hawks are doing just fine. Kings, not so much.
At least a third of NBA GMs draft on physical traits over basketball acumen.
It might have been apparent to you at the time, but I don’t recall that opinion being anywhere near a consensus in pre draft chatter.
A lot of the analytics/draft twitter crowd were Luka #1 people… so at least a consensus among those types.
Could be. It is hard for me to filter between the very knowledgeable, the modestly knowledgeable, and the clueless. Lots of the best known are in category #3. On a related note, Stephen A. Smith might be worth $7M/Y to ESPN for entertainment value, but he is at the far end of category #3.
the Luka #1 people were people plugged into Euro basketball… he was MVP of the best Euro league at 18, which is probably the best basketball played outside of the NBA and Olympics.
So it was a no-brainer for those who knew about the quality of Euro leagues.
I think Sengun and Giddey are getting their due now in part because people have more respect for basketball leagues outside of the US.
I will say this regarding the Olympics, I think relying on KD to be the #1 is dicey. I think Mr. Sock Puppet is mentally weak at times. Unstoppable at others, however.
Right. Awesome skill, but low mental toughness and leadership. That is why I doubt he ever leads a team to the championship. He is best when he can hide behind something like Steph, Klay, and Draymond. And Kyrie is too much of an air head to fill that role. Maybe Hardin.
Agree 100%.
THANKS RAOUIL —YEAH SAW THTA CLIP YESTERDAY—-THOUGHT HANKS DID A GREAT JOB NARRATING —IMPRESSIVE———STILLL WONDERING WHAT THE —–FLOWERPECKER LOGO WOULD HAVE BEEN ————EVIL HELP ME / US OUT HERE
ALOT OF RUMORS / ‘SMOKE SCREENS ‘—NBA DRAFT RIGHT NOW—-SOME MEDIA HAS ROCKETS TAKING MOBLEY OR SUGGS —CAVS TAKING GREEN AND MAKING TRADE TO PELICANS –SEXTON FOR BLEDSOE/ ANOTHER PLAYER AND # 10 PICK WHICH THEY TAKE KISPERT
Yeah, lot of smokescreens and misinformation leading up. More the closer it gets.
117 hours and counting!
kispert would be kind of disappointing, but don’t mind going for pick 10!
2nd coming of jimmer..
LMFAOOO probably so!
Kispert can shoot, not sure he can do much else.
I wouldn’t take Kispert super high or anything, but I think he’s miles ahead of Jimmer as an athlete…
I was referring to skillset not athleticism to be clearer LMFAOO
Kispert just doesn’t bring much defensively or as a playmaker, which I think is the book on Jimmer too… but Jimmer is worse because he’s also a ball hog! LMFAOO
I doubt they do that as both have reportedly refused to workout for Houston.
I think Cunningham, Green, Mobley, then Suggs is pretty locked in, baring some big trade (Beal, Simmons, Lillard).
Any idea why they would refuse to work out for Houston? I usually regard refusing to work out as a red flag. Remember the guy from BYU that went #1 despite not working out for anyone, and it turned out he was as bad as Gum Drop
IDK if it’s allowed or not but they may have already promised not to work out if they have a handshake agreement with another team.
right, you always suspect that. Of course, that can backfire. I think the Cavs had an agreement with St. Weirdo to not work out with other teams. Could use a do-over on that.
Name history: https://www.mlb.com/news/how-the-cleveland-indians-became-the-guardians
“FLOWERPECKERS ” FOREVER :-)
Lol. Home run Nomad.
After some consideration, I am thinking that the “Guardians” is actually a really good name.
LMFAOOO yeah it’s not bad, probably would like it more if they had put more thought into the logo and redesign.
agree — but all that stuff is easy to adjust as needed, whereas changing a name is a big deal. You absolutely don’t want to be doing that twice.
Yeah logo is the worst part. Just do the wings on the ball or wings on a C. Something simpler. The wings on the ball with the G’s is just messy/awkward looking.
yeah, very awkward and cheap/half-assed IMO
The wings kind of look like a pitchers fingers on a split finger fast ball
Interesting backstory. You can bet we will be seeing the bridge + statues on any nationally televised events, starting with the Browns games this fall.
Sounds a lot like “Indians”. The familiar sound patterns on the radio, etc., will not take forever getting used to.
Sam is definitely onto what I’m thinking might be going on if they take Mobley at 3.
I think there’s a non-zero chance there’s a JA sign and trade if they draft Mobley.
https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1418751999353315329?s=20
Agree they might trade JA. But that is not obvious. What fraction of the $ goes to bigs is irrelevant until the Love contract is over. The only thing that matters at this point is getting more talent.
that’s true… I meant more of his view of Mobley and what that would mean for Allen.
I think Sam’s just illustrating poor asset allocation and roster construction or at least the potential of it with the looming extensions.
The issue is with Love’s deal, not Allen’s, or Nance’s. The “problem”, such as it is, isn’t a large one. We are under the tax and no big time FA wants to play here while we suck. And getting rid of Allen does not fix it. Plus, Mobley is too skinny to play much 5 to start. We gotta get out from under Love’s deal in the next year and avoid making a similar overpay with Sexton if he does not help us win games. But neither is urgent where we have to take a bath right now to jettison… Read more »
Paying Allen 20m/yr over 4 or 5 years is definitely an issue if they draft Mobley.
Love’s deal isn’t an issue because Love can actually play with Mobley with his ability to shoot jumpers.
Also paying Allen 20m/yr after such a shaky part of the year with the Cavs and with Hartenstein looking impressive and costing probably 25% of what it would take to retain Allen, I think Sam illustrates well how it’s not a forgone conclusion that Allen will remain a Cav should they draft Mobley.
DID A “CLF” BUCKAROOO……….HEY IT IS FRIDAY NIGHT AND THE MRS NOMAD AND DOG ARE STILL AWAKE ………..TIME TO “KISS THE DOG AND PET THE WIFE “—–HAVE A GOOD ONE BUCKAROOO
HEY BUCKAROO YOU LIKE TEAMS NAMED AFTER BIRDS—HOW ABOUT THE RARE CEBU FLOWERPECKER———AM SURE WE COULD ALL HAVE HAD A LAUGH / FUN WITH THAT NICKNAME ………………” MORE BEER PLEASE ” :-)
FlowerPeckers is perfect.. the logo alone will be worth the ticket price..
How about the “Cleveland More-Beer-Please”?
the drinkers..
just curious, who was responsible for the new moniker ? owners ?
FWIW.. background summarized on CLE.com
Cleveland did the right thing ditching their name. Not wild about Guardians. I was in camp Spiders.
Only good thing about Guardians is it kind of sounds like Indians.
My take is there was nothing offensive (intentional or otherwise) in the name Cleveland Indians . Sad that a few squeaky wheels got the grease , but that’s the modern world .
The logo is patently offensive.
I totally agree . The logo had to go . But ” Cleveland Indians ” is not racist – unless you choose to think that it is . And it’s a slippery slope when you start making these decisions just based on a few perceptions imho . For example the “Africentric Early College Nubians” -a basketball team from Columbus Oh . That name could not be any more racist if it tried lol. But no one , including myself, seems to be outraged over that peculiar choice for a name.
Agree. Guess how much sleep I have lost over the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and Wooster Fighting Scots so far.
YARDBIRDS ——TRIBE HITTERS HAVE GONE “YARD “—-BIRDS TONIGHT
NOMAD bro.. what about the Cleveland Cows ? actually, i just realized that the Crows would have been a very nice choice.. they are big bad ass birds, and are extraordinarily intelligent, in fact recent research suggests that they are self-aware.. like perhaps 50% of humans.. my favorite ball club names are the bird-related.. orioles, blue jays, cardinals, etc.. frankly, guardians is pretty lame..
Columbus already has the name
Now that I think about it, I would have preferred the “Cleveland Grays”, which has a lot of historical precedent.
Despite all of the rumblings about Houston liking Green, I’m betting they wind up taking Mobley. I’m trying to talk myself in to Green. I won’t pretend I have any ability to evaluate talent, but watching highlights of him leaves me lukewarm. He just frequently looks out of control to me, and throws up a lot of odd looking shots. I’ll trust the experts to know what they’re talking about. I do like that he’s been tested in the G-League.
Green performing well in G League is all I have to hang my hat on too bw…. otherwise he violates my rule of “superstars are coaches on the floor”
I also think Green to Houston is not a forgone conclusion, but I guess we’ll find out soon!!!
with you on that one
I think KPJ + Green is a better long term fit in the backcourt than Wood + Mobley in the frontcourt. Plus Wall is still on the roster. It allows Green to be a scorer at first and not have to worry about facilitating.
I think they take Green, but Mobley would not shock me.
First thoughts on “Cleveland Guardians”?
It’s fine, could be worse. Just relieved they’re finally ditching the old name.
The old name was great. No one had any problems with it but woke leftists
Count me in with the woke leftists then.
And Native Americans. But who cares about them, right?
What makes you think Native Americans didn’t like the Indians?
Um, all the Native American groups that protested it, and vs Redskins (both the NFL team and Miami college team).
Is the opposite of woke asleep? Or an ostrich?
Not bad, not great…
Means nothing. Would be nice if the name had some relation to the city.
agree. the bridge things are a bit of a stretch. Actually might prefer “Bridge Things” to “Guardians”. Or,maybe, “Bridge Trolls”
Reports out there that both Toronto #4 and Orlando #5 + #8 both trying to trade for #3.
DO THE SMART THING AND PAY HARK—-LOVE IS ON HIS WAY OUT OR MIN’S DRASTICALLY REDUCED– ( HEY WHAT AM I THINKING HE WILL BE ON INJURED LIST MOST OF THE SEASON ) ——ALL IN FOR THE GAURDIANS !!!!!!
NOMAD bro.. as we are the home of rock ‘n roll.. i was hoping for either the the Cleveland Who ? or at the very least, the Cleveland Yardbirds.. the latter would actually have been a very cool name (oozing with double entendre)..
I’m for Yardbirds over Who. The YB didn’t last long enough to become lame. Although Clapton’s is making up for it by becoming an anti-vaxer!
Clapton is also a Brexit cheerleader, and long before any of the recent crap, back in the mid ’70s a pretty virulent racist and xenophobe. Oh, he also stole George Harrison’s wife, George being one of his best friends.
unfortunately, George was rampantly unfaithful & emotionally distant (a rock star acting like that – whodathunk? LOL)
Eric & George continued to work together so ??
p.s. LOVE the “Yardbirds” name… sly, subtle, and with deeper meanings… How many ways were the Tribe the OGs – like the first AL team to sign a black player?
And then wrote a song about it you may have heard of. The steal did not last though, as Clapton remarried & moved to Columbus.
Harrison had previously stole Ringo’s wife Maureen.
Both are British. Hard pass.
Good point
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1418579422706286594?s=20
From Sam Quinn CBS: “According to The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, the Toronto Raptors, picking No. 4, and the Orlando Magic, picking No. 5, have both made trade offers to move up to No. 3. Orlando especially appears to be in strong position to make such a move if Cleveland is interested because it controls not only the No. 5 pick, but the No. 8 pick as well thanks to its midseason trade of Nikola Vucevic. “
Chris Fedor just reported that the Cavs can offer Hartenstein a QO @ 2m to make him an RFA…. news to me and hope they do that, the price tag is well worth the option.
Great. Appears to be a keeper
Think it depends on who they draft. Likely a crowd at the big man spots if they draft mobley.
Nah, they still need a real (non skinny) C on the roster. If Hart is not too pricey, he’s a great backup.
Short term, I see Mobley as more of a 4.
LNJ is a 4 who can play some 3. Ditto Wade.
You need 5, or ideally 6 guys who can play the 4-5 spots on the roster. Allen, LNJ, Mobley, Hart, Wade + 1 (Love/Kabengele). Kev is on the way out.
I’d think they’d want to keep Hard Rock even if they draft Mobley and let JA go because he’d be too expensive. But maybe not what they’re thinking.
Chris Fedor vs CLF…. did he steal your initials? :)
so $2 MM qo vs $1.8 po? Easy $200k for Hartenstein… (of course, pre-tax and pre-agent, lol)
LMFAOOOOO i know it’s weird, feel like it’s a mistaken/stolen identity!!!
as long as you don’t get blamed for Fedor’s missteps! (but get credit for his gems? LOL)
that’s right rick!!! LMFAOOOOOOO
uncle buck says keep it simple stupid.. especially with kolby (no track record, no reason for him being where he is.. questionable competence).. So.. just do what most folks suggest doing.. draft mobley, if he falls to #3, or green or suggs, if he doesn’t.. if auerbach were in the cavs FO.. sure.. go crazy.. shake and bake to your heart’ content.. you earned the opportunity.. kolby ain’t auerbach.. he doesn’t even belong in the league.. the G-league !!!!!
as an aside, after listening to the ringer video.. i think houston takes mobley.. that being likely, if mobley is off the board, and they can do a trade with orlando.. perhaps they gamble.. i am a mobley fan, but i think he goes at 2..glad my neck is not on the line..
hmmmm… very interesting, and I’ve thought it was possible. Also saw rumors that Houston would trade down to whomever wants Mobley too to extract resources.
Yeah I’m more hoping for a trade back into the lottery and getting a wing to pair with Mobley.
great Pod guys!!! cannot wait for the draft, let’s go Mobley!!!!!!!
same
Hell yeah Dan, glad you’re checking in!!! Appreciate it!
Same to you Raoul!
Agree that paying off Love so he could play for a contender for the minimum would be nice for Love. But I am in it for the Cavs. There are all kinds of ways you can wring something out of expiring contracts. If Love wants to go, he can make a deal. He can make up for it with his modeling money.
171 hours to go
AGREE WITH ROB ON # 1 AND # 2——THESE TOP 3 —-CADE/ GREEN / MOBLEY IN MY OPINION AND MANY EXPERTS ARE FRANCHISE CHANGERS —MOBLEY MAY HAPPPEN LATER ——-TRADE DOWN AND THERE IS MORE OF A CHANCE AT A BUST
yeah, the ideal is keeping three and trading back into the lottery… that resets the timeline with Mobley and DG as the core.
But then the question is whether you trade Sexton to make it happen?
would you accept 5 & 8 for 3? Or too risky passing on the top tier? It seems like the more you read, the more warts you can find on Mobley / Green etc. The downside of too much information at our finger tips.
Would you rather have Mobley vs Kuminga + Barnes? or Barnes + Johnson?
How about 7 14 & Wiseman for 3 (+ filler)? That one seems a little tougher to swallow and not sure GSW would want engage CLE given other options here.
Why is the offseason more fun than the actual basketball?!
I think this year is a unique situation, where Mobley is definitely falling to 3. But, I personally would accept 5 and 8 for 3 because the value (according to Kevin Pelton and Jacob Goldstein’s draft value charts) is too good to pass up. I’d draft one 3 and D (Wagner, Moody) and one unicorn (Barnes, Johnson, Giddey). But I think the best picks would actually be 10-20, I think that’s the area where you can find guys who fell from the top of the lottery and take risks on the global prospects such as Giddey and Sengun. I think… Read more »
Going to disagree with Rob on buying out Love. First, there are a lot of things that can happen down the road to lessen the impact of the salary cap hit. Second, if they cut his minutes way back, he has a reasonable chance to get halfway healthy, and thus become a somewhat valuable role player, at which point he can be part of a trade.
I’m with Rob. Nobody in the league wants KLove unless they can get him for scraps. I don’t think anybody even wants Sexton enough to absorb Love’s contract as part of a deal. I have a lot of respect for KLove and think he’s rarely gotten a fair shake from fans, but it’s time for him to come off the bench for the vet minimum for a contender.
well said worldbfree…. Love’s extremely minor stint with Team USA was very concerning. It was clear he didn’t belong on the court.
Love’s last three years have been very concerning. Give me more Nance + Allen + Wade and keep the distractions away.
I know some advanced stats CAN show Love has a little value, but the eye test and the body language show a different story. Will be very hard to respect the FO if he starts the season on the team.
I disagree with idea that starting him a bad thing. Last season, he was still our best starter by on/off plus/minus. I agree that there’s cause for concern that he’s still a winning player for sure. He seems like he’s been beaten down by losing.
The far greater concern is whether Sexton and Okoro both start, or that they overpay Allen while drafting Mobley.
The on/off data is extremely unkind to Allen, Okoro, and Sexton among the starters.
Thanks for the Pod, and for all the great coverage! If I was handed the keys, things I do: Buyout Kevin Love, like today. Keep Sexton and play out the season (gut tells me he takes another step this year and figure contract out later, or trade him mid year) Explore trading 3 for two lotto picks — this pod shined a light on all the boom (or bust) picks that could fall and I think you need more shots at it. Cavs need homerun picks to have a snowball’s chance at becoming a contender again. If you can’t get… Read more »
Appreciate you listening Rob!!!
yeah, I’d love to get multiple picks in this draft… so many intriguing prospects, and it seems like Orlando and GSW are the ones who have the potential to capitalize.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1418228443943219204?s=20
aren’t they kinda set with RJ + Cole Anthony? Not sure I do that if I’m orlando. Would definitely do this is if Im Cavs
I’m sold!!! LMFAOOOOO
The guy from Kentucky has the best hair
CLF with some of the spiciest takes on his big board!!!
Great take on the Giannis v Simmons mindsets, EZK.
I don’t know for sure, but I suspect Ben has not had great mentors & has been coddled to some extent. Giannis spoke openly about his influences and it was brilliant to listen to his live-the-moment philosophy.
Appreciate it Simmo. I agree. Last year, they wanted to help his shooting. 76ers wanted a professional shooting coach while Rich Paul and Klutch chose a cousin coaching division 3 basketball.
But now they can get Adele to help with his singing.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
LMFAOOOOOOOOO I’m the upsetter!!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO