Quick Reaction: 2022 NBA Draft (or, Rock Chalk, Jayhawk?)
2022-06-24Here’s some instant reaction to the just concluded 2022 NBA Draft, let’s dive in…
1. Rock Chalk, Jayhawk?
The Cavs took Kansas Jayhawk and National Champion Ochai Agbaji with the 14th pick in the draft. It was a “chalk” pick as Agbaji was the 15th ranked prospect on the NBA consensus board, and the 14th ranked prospect of yours truly. The Cavs’ pick was the sports equivalent of drafting a highly touted offensive linemen in the NFL draft, it lacks the excitement of a real playmaker but provides a security blanket for the rest of the team upon which to rely. Let’s dive in further on Agbaji…
2. Why was Agbaji the right pick?
There are plenty of positives regarding Agbaji for the Cavs. He obviously comes from a winning tradition, Bill Self’s Kansas basketball program is an elite college basketball program that doesn’t except anything less than excellence. Agbaji is a mature, 22 years old “3 and D” perimeter player with a ton of experience. The expectation ought to be that he can come to the Cavs and immediately compete for rotation minutes at the very least, if not a starting role as a shooting guard or small forward. His combine testing was a smashing success, grading out as one of the most athletic players in the 2022 draft class:
Here are the overall Athleticism rankings for all of the prospects undertaking athletic testing at the NBA Draft Combine.#NBADraft #NBADraftCombine pic.twitter.com/4qJA48nKWo
— Sam Hollins (@HamSollins) May 19, 2022
If Agbaji reaches his full potential, he becomes an elite 3 and D perimeter player similar to a Danny Green, Kyle Korver, or “Smokin'” Joe Harris archetype. It’s hard to envision teams leaving Agbaji completely unguarded in the way Isaac Okoro was during the play-in tournament run.
2. What happened to the home run swing?
For all the talk of home run swing, the Cavs literally drafted a sacrifice bunt.
— Cavs:TheBlog (@CavsTheTweets) June 24, 2022
Jokes aside, there are legitimate reasons to question this pick. The most glaring problem with Ochai Agbaji as a player is the lack of offensive versatility to his game. He has demonstrated very little ability to pressure the rim off the dribble (23.6% career free throw rate) or pass the ball (9.4% career assist rate). These are seriously bad numbers for an NBA perimeter player, and especially one as athletically gifted as Agbaji. There’s zero evidence he can fulfill a shooting guard/emergency point guard role on offense. His skill set reflects a player who can only play “3 and D” small forward or a small ball power forward role. The inability to attack the rim and pass the ball makes this pick perplexing, even downright inexcusable in the context of finding players that maximize the Cavs’ two star front court players Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, or maximizing Darius Garland in an off-ball shooting guard role like Steph Curry.
The second biggest question about Agbaji is the lack of defensive playmaking for a player of his athletic ability. Agbaji’s 1.7% career steal rate and 1.5% block rate are underwhelming to say the least. Agbaji could be a below average to bad NBA defender with those type of numbers, combined with the lack of elite length (a touch less than 6’6″) for the small forward position. In comparison, Tari Eason posted a 4.1% career steal rate and 6.5% career block rate and was drafted just a few picks later. Even AJ Griffin, not considered an elite defender, posted a higher career stock rate higher than Agbaji’s. Ochai’s defense in “3 and D” has to be considered theoretical at this point.
3. Rest easy Sexton, LeVert, and Ice stans…
There’s two big takeaways here regarding the Agbaji pick: 1. The Cavs appear to be “all-in” on extending Collin Sexton, Caris LeVert, and continuing to develop Isaac Okoro, and 2. The Cavs appear to be in “win-now” mode, drafting as a playoff team or championship contender would.
By drafting Agbaji, the Cavs continue to leave a massive hole at the backup point guard position and a possible logjam of shooting guards. This problem appears to be easily resolved by assuming that if the Cavs were to re-sign Young Bull, he’s going to get every chance to prove he can run the team’s offense as a point guard. Also, the massive hole at back up point guard could be filled by further developing Isaac Okoro’s on-ball skills in Summer League and during the season. Remember, the best Okoro’s ever looked as a Cav was the one game against the Phoenix Suns in which Ice was forced into the back up point/combo guard role.
Finally, the talk about Caris LeVert and the Cavs signing an extension appears to have more weight given the Agbaji pick. LeVert will clearly be in the conversation of back up point guard options without further additions via free agency.
Interestingly, the Agbaji pick for the Cavs leaves the impression of a team operating as a “win now” team rather than a lottery team, which the Cavs actually are. Older, more polished prospects tend to go later in the draft to more successful teams because of the need to find cheap, roster-able talent that can play immediately. The Cavs decided they had a clear need (spot up shooting, perimeter defense) and found a prospect that can deliver results in that aspect of the game at a cost-controlled price.
4. WTF happened in the second round???
It stands to reason that Cavs’ fans might feel differently about the Agbaji pick had the Cavs not approached their three second round picks with a complete lack of seriousness. The Cavs ended up drafting three players that are among the lowest ranked prospects in the 2022 draft class:
As one can see, the Cavs drafted a fringe second rounder along with two other players expected to hit the undrafted free agent pool. It’s hard not to feel terrible about the Cavs drafting two of the six worst ranked prospects in the draft. The only redeeming part about the second round of the Cavs’ draft was obviously taking Evan Mobley’s brother Isaiah Mobley with the 49th pick. Outside of that, the second round was a joke.
There are notions from post-draft reporting that the Cavs wanted to trade up to no avail:
Interesting that Fedor again talks about a “YOLO swing” and that player probably would have been Dieng.
Also, seems to admit the Cavs may have miscalculated about trading back into the first https://t.co/JGdD1kBej1
— Cavs:TheBlog (@CavsTheTweets) June 24, 2022
One may ask, “what should the Cavs have done differently?” Clearly the Cavs should’ve pulled out all the stops to get back into the 29-38 pick range, where there were at least four solid back up point guard prospects who were drafted in those nine picks: TyTy Washington, Andrew Nembhard, Jaden Hardy, and Kennedy Chandler. The Cavs were known to host workouts for three out of the four prospects, and at least met with the other prospect at the combine.
Quite simply, Cavs’ POBO Koby Altman dropped the ball in spite of being armed with a ton of picks and Dan Gilbert’s money. Even if Altman didn’t want to pay the toll to consolidate picks and trade up, why not take better prospects? EJ Liddell, Trevor Keels, Kendell Brown, and Bryce McGowans were fringe first round prospects who fell into the Cavs’ range, yet they eschewed.
If they didn’t like the fit of those players (which is debatable), why not take a player like Ryan Rollins (a Jordan Poole clone), whom the NBA Champion Golden State Warriors paid nearly two million dollars to the Atlanta Hawks to draft? Or what about doing what the Memphis Grizzlies did, taking an underrated senior wing prospect such as Vince Williams Jr. (a second round favorite of yours truly) with Cleveland’s original second round pick? Instead, Altman chose to punt two picks into the thin air even while spending two million of Dan Gilbert’s money to take a player (Isaiah Mobley) that could’ve been had without lighting that money on fire. Just an embarrassing display of draft strategy while a team such as the Grizzlies run circles around the NBA.
5. Final Thoughts
After taking a deep breath, it’s fair to say Ochai Agbaji was a solid pick. The real problem with choosing Agbaji was Koby Altman betraying his own claim that they felt like they had the freedom to take a “home run swing” at an upside star. That clearly did not happen. Yours truly has a growing, if unfounded, suspicion that Santa Clara’s Jalen Williams was their ideal prospect and Altman was left scrambling after the Oklahoma City Thunder somewhat surprisingly took Williams with the 12th pick. But at the end of the day, at least it wasn’t a wasted pick in the vein of a Patrick Baldwin Jr. or a Peyton Watson. The far bigger crime of last night was the Cavs’ second round strategy, just a stunning display of WTF???
New post up!
Apparently Travers will be at summer league. There’s a short reaction/ interview with him at the below link. I don’t see him as an NBA player, but either way, hell of an accomplishment getting drafted as a 20 year old, and cool to see his excitement.
https://nbl.com.au/news/speechless-travers-explains-nba-draft-emotions
Kevin Love and Kate Bock married.
I like Kevin.
Mazel Kevin and Kate!
I MOBLEY SOMEWHAT INTRIGUES ME —-SOLID BASKETBALL I.Q.AND SOLID PERSON —HELPS AS FAR AS COMFORT LEVEL HAVING EVAN AS A TEAMMATE —-GOOD PASSER// OUTSIDE SHOT ABOVE AVERAGE —-I CAN SEE HIM PUSHING STEVENS ——JUST MY OPINION
Me Too.
Since the Cavs appear to have assembled a “High Character — No Trouble” team, I would also bring in the Mobley parents to organize picnics, bowling nights, etc.
Jason Lloyd has a piece in the Athletic that sheds some light on the draft. I don’t subscribe, but got a summary elsewhere. Per Lloyd:
We wanted immediate help. Once Dieng was off the board, Agbaji was the choice (not sure Dieng is immediate help, but maybe we didn’t care in his case).
Could have gotten back into Rd 1, but did not want another guaranteed contract.
The second part suggests strongly Rubio & Sexton are penciled in as back. That would put us at 14 guys, assuming Isaiah Mobley (IM) is a two-way.
Wonder if they just bring back Goodwin and call it a day.
I would until they get someone better.
Fedor wrote the other day that Rubio returning is essentially a done deal. I expect that to be announced soon after FA starts.
I feel like it’s being taken for granted that Ochai is a more “win now” move. But younger guys like Eason, Griffin, and Branham all put up similar or better production in quality conferences. I think the real blind swings were Dieng, Sharpe, and Daniels but they were already off the board.
Eason’s 21 I think, which is why I liked him as both an upside play and a win now move, could’ve thread the needle that way.
In terms of the cap/tax, I don’t see any way we are not a taxpayer this year if Rubio & Sexton are back. We are around $25 mil under the tax. $123 mil with the tax line at $149 and the apron at $155. My capology is not as strong as it once was, but saying we do things in the right order, $10 mil for Rubio (MLE), $18 for Sexton, and $4 mil for Agbaji is $32 mil. We are right at the apron with 1 spot open. Now, if we off-load some guys in-season (Cedi, Windler, Love, LeVert,… Read more »
But I think Altman wants a longer look-see at LeVert & Sexton with this group, and Okoro’s progress, before any decisions are made.
yup, I think they can attach their extra 2nd round picks to dump Cedi and/or Windler.
you can dump the last pick, I am keeping the first two.
I’m talking about future picks, not this year’s.
Once you sign Sexton this summer, that is the only decision you will probably be able to make on him. After that, if he is who he is, you’re just trying to find somebody to dump him on and either taking back bad assets or giving up more assets to do so.
Unless it is an incredibly team friendly contract I probably would pass. But he is Koby’s pick. So that probably weighs on his decision.
Sexton has most value for a team starting a rebuild, because he is fun, will win you a few games, put fans in the seats, but not hurt you in the lottery.
Might not have to count Rubio until he is ready to play? If so, that would give some time to make other moves.
Nah, he’ll count once we sign him. I guess we could wait to sign him until he is ready to play, but that would be a pretty big leap of faith from the player.
that is what I meant.
WOW JASON –FORGOT ALL ABOUT THAT——BUCKAROO I AM IN CHARGE OF OPERATING THE ‘GATOR”—THAT IS ALL I AM TRUSTED WITH ANYMORE —–SPEAKING OF GATOR—–DO ANY OF YOU REMEMBER THE DRINK—‘HOP-IN-GATOR” WAS A BIG CRAZE FOR ABOUT A YEAR
Oh Yeah! Once a friend stopped at my house and said he would buy all the beer if I drove up to the State Fair to see Ike and Tina. We stopped at a carryout, and Willie comes back with two cases of Hop’n Gator! Yuck! My GF was totally sick by the time we got to Columbus. Did get to see Ike stop a big fight by making fun of them over the PA: “Why don’t you come and fight on the stage? Some of the people can’t see you”.
the mrs NOMAD runs a tight ship.. how do you salute ?
Speaking of Stoh’s, are 15 packs still a thing?
Back in the day, there were two big distributers in SE Ohio. One featured Strohs, and the other Rolling Rock, and both owners stopped in bars regularly. When one of them would come in, I would yell an order for his beer, and he would buy a round for everyone.
BUCKAROO BROTHER — I WILL WORK ON THAT NEW BEER —–WILL NAME IT AFTER THIS BLOG—-CTB—-CRAFT THE BEER ……………” MORE BEER PLEASE ” !!!!!
DO IT NOMAD!!! CHEERS!
you have a fridge in the combine loaded with the double-R ?
Yep,hard to look at this crop and generate much excitement.I’m sure some picks fell differently than they hoped, but that second round was a total whiff.Not even a slight attempt to find someone who could contribute.Meanwhile other teams making things happen.Koby seems pretty ok with running it back with basically the same group.We’ll see how that works out.
Thanks Steve C! Especially since you grasp the core of my beef with the Cavs’ draft re: 2nd round. Mobley might win the 3rd string center job by default, but none of the other guys are even competing for a roster spot.
Thankfully 2nd year Evan Mobley, 4th year DG, and early prime JA should be a joy to watch!
What I found odd about it was the shift in philosophy. In round 1, they picked the most NBA ready guy. So they wanted help now.
They bought an extra pick in Rd 2, presumably to try and move back into round 1 (or at least up in Rd 2). So they were willing to roster 2 rookies at some point. But then turned around a drafted 2 stashes & a 2 way guy.
Damn that’s an excellent point!
I don’t think that is a whiff, that’s intentional. More of a punt. Or kicking the can. Or stocking the pantry for next year. Likely no first, and a lot of guys on expirings (Love, LeVert, Cedi, Windler, Wade). Plus, we may have decisions on fit/futures for Okoro/LeVert and Sexton (if he comes back).
It seems as if they had specific guys targeted, and once they were gone (or we could not move up), we shifted to plan B. I wonder who?
stands to reason it was the 4 ball guards that they checked out LMFAO…. would’ve really loved to take a swing on Hardy or Chandler, sitting right there.
Yeah. Me, too. Or Brown.
Chandler & Hardy went before we picked. Would have to move up.
yeah that’s what I mean, that they might’ve been the ones targeted to move up for.
Yes this is 100% my read on the 2nd round. They couldn’t get in position to nab any names on their list and cut bait. Didn’t want to commit salary cap for any of the names available. Roster spots are pretty limited at this point. They will be approaching the luxury tax soon, don’t want to trip the repeater tax earlier than necessary. Remain flexible for future trades.
Yeah,punt is a better description.
I think it is established that they tried to trade into the end of the first but couldn’t do it. They couldn’t use those picks for a trade, so they had to use them.
Could be that all four picks were who they thought was the best player available. I think the issue of “draft philosophy” is more for the commentators than the drafters.
Agree on the first point. Yes, they tried to trade up. When they failed, they then picked 3 guys who they are not gonna roster (this year).
If they had succeeded, they’d have rostered 2 rooks. Why switch gears?
Hyunjun Lee may be the most interesting udfa left to take a flyer on. With his injury, signing him to a two way and stashing him there for a year would be worth the gamble.
Agreed, take a flier Koby!
With the Cavs starting to say “done deal” with regards to Rubio. That would bring the roster to 13.
Starters: DG, LeVert, Big Finnish, Mobley, Allen
Main subs: Rubio, Agbaji, Okoro, Love
Fringe rotation: Wade, Stevens, Osman
Deep bench: Windler
————–
2 way: Nembhard, Mobley
Stashed: Diop, Travers
————
That is 13. Sexton would be 14. And we still need a backup PG (Rubio won’t be ready) and a legit, girthy center to backup Allen. Not room for both absent a deal.
Assuming no deals, we could roll with I. Mobley as the backup C. Evan, Love, and Markkanen usually divide the non-Allen minutes. Isaiah could fill in for one of them, but starting? I also don’t think starting Love at C is viable. Nor Evan. Not for more than a game or two. Wear & tear.
Similarly, we could roll with some combo of LeVert, Sexton, Okoro & Nembhard as ballhandlers when DG sits or is out until Rubio returns. But that looks brutal. Maybe if we went to some sort if movement offense. But P&R? Ouch. I am not a fan of either option. The roster remains unbalanced and we are too thin at PG and C. Too many wings and PFs. I’d try to trade Osman and/or Windler (both expirings worth $11 mil or so total) to try and land a serviceable backup C or PG. If we eat some salary long term, we… Read more »
Stevens is unguaranteed.
getting a decent PG for Osman+Windler would be a huge win.
This is really fantastic, Chris. A couple things on Ogbaji: he has a very unique skill set as an off-ball player. He absolutely punishes over-plays because he’s a deadly back door cutter and is an explosive oop finisher with a very wide catch radius. It’s a rare combo In a dedicated shooter. You can’t crowd him off-ball because of this. He’ll also be a great lane filler on the break because of this: “run the lane and then sprint to the corner” should be his go-to as a fast break finisher. He is just meh as a movement shooter and… Read more »
yup 100% agree… great stuff on the catch and shoot vs. movement, that is what I’ve found too. Glad he’s an elite athlete, I’m hoping that translates on defense.
Nice post, Nate. I think it is on the money. Except for missing on his name, of course: Agbaji. Ochai Agbaji.
I do see more potential for improvement, though. Especially since he is a guy who came to basketball a bit later than some other guys. Or I should say, focused on hoops later. Was a soccer guy first, while still hooping. Grew 9 inches from freshman to junior year, and then focused on hoops from soph on.
That is my hope.
Thanks for the correction.
Ogbaji is the new nickname!
THANKS RAOUL —–.’MORE BEER PLEASE”—–OK BUCKAROO–I AM GOING TO THE “VERY BACK SHELF ” AND ICE DOWN SOME STROHS BEER AND MAYBE ALSO SOME P.O.C. ——-( PRIDE OR PISS OF CLEVELAND :-)
Haven’t heard P.O.C. in a long time! A couple years ago I sipped a few Millers at rock shows, because it was the only thing the UB&G had in bottles. Lately I have been putting them in my office fridge.
so.. raoul bro.. what about the AI ? hopeful ? fearful ? a joke ?
both a joke and fearful.
not fearful of AI taking over, but plenty fearful of people using it to do who knows what.
AI was a total joke for decades. There were all kinds of tricks, and none of them worked, including SIPM (simple minded pattern matching). What has changed is that computers are now powerful enough that SMPM with billions of parameters is now spotting some patterns.
stroh’s.. now that makes me smile.. got any blatz ?
NOMAD bro.. are you contributing to the beer supply chain.. making sure it stays healthy ? better yet, you have land, crops and capital.. how about starting a new brand ? “NOMAD Custom Brews” ? “It may not taste good, but it will get you where you want to go”.. i will be an investor..
Undrafted free agent signings (per TheScore):
we must have a moment of silent thankfulness that koby took garland and sexton (and not culver and knox).. wow.. wtf happened with those dudes ?? those are 2 very pathetic and damaging busts.. no question, busts are lurking
I am thankful he put his trust in those two mature 4 year college players.
how about a three day ceasefire?
Culver cannot shoot. Knox is a bit better shioting but really only had 1 decent year. I don’t know what his issues are. I think they just moved Barrett to the 3 & he has not PT.
Both are examples of guys with talent & decent (15 ppg) production in college (2 years, 1 year). But both never developed.
Do they still have upside?
i think the $$ changes the whole neuro thing.. they become lazy zombie check cashers.. only the few really want to work after daddy gives them that first whopper of a check (talking about the first rounders here).. i would love to see a team built only around hungry 2nds..
In hopes of having some actual data (as opposed to everyone trotting out their favorite examples), I propose a mini research project for anyone with energy left: Take the guys from a given draft, say 2020 or 2021, and rate them 1 through 60 as to how valuable they appear to be now. Compare that number with the number they were picked in the draft. Then group this pair of numbers with the age at which they were drafted (or, maybe, years of college?), and we can see if there is a strong signal or not. Either have Excel draw… Read more »
fun, high energy, debate! looks like everyone is too winded to come out for the second half.
I think we can agree that all that really matters is choosing the “best bet” at a given draft position.
CAVS ARE BACK BABY!!!!
GOT THAT RIGHT!!
Chris, do we have a link to Fedor saying Rubio is a done deal? Only thing I can find is a “highly likely” piece from April.
It was a quote from one of his sources within the org, not sure which article but positive that it was reported.
JUST CAME IN FROM BATTLING THE “NEVER ENDING MRS NOMAD HONEYDO LIST ‘—-CATCHING UP ON THE POSTS—MAN BUCKAROO YOU MUST HAVE HAD A ‘ROLLING ROCK WITH YOUR SPINACH ” –SOME GREAT POSTS BY ALL OF YOU—-VERY POIGNANT POSTS TO DO SOME ‘THOUGHT PROCESS ‘ ON …….TO SUM IT UP ALL OF YOU TAKE A BREAK AND HAVE SOME ……..” MORE BEER PLEASE ” —-YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST !!!
NOMAD bro.. i enjoyed exploring the hoops history.. some facts were surprising.. that was some passionate ctb interchange.. was running on yuengling and kale..
good idea. I will get a yuengling too.
raoul bro.. so you are a config.sys guy from way back ?
that is a scary thought!
all that and more: Quarterdeck stuff for “above 640k memory”, 4DOS to make up my own commands, etc. I let that stuff go when I realized that Microsoft always wins, and you have better stuff to do than fight them.
Haha: anyone who works in a university that uses “Blackboard” will come to appreciate MS products!
scarier yet:
IBM mainframe JCL commands on punch cards!
primitive graphics in Fortran to show off.
yeah.. i worked on punch cards in high school (’73-’74).. for calculus class.. i loved me some lotus123 back in the day.. still have it running on an old 8086 (with a co-processor) and DOS 3.1
haha — when engineers are asked “what is the most useful thing you learned in college” they often reply “MS Excel”.
that was fun.. my final comp.. mikal bridges.. 3 years at villanova (i think they got a ncaa championship).. went 10th in 2018.. has improved during his 4 years in the nba.. contributing to winning hoops.. now producing at 14-15 ppg.. i think ochai tracks this, and perhaps outperforms a little.. i don’t think he becomes a kevin knox or jarrett culver
I’m not saying that age is the determining factor. I’m saying if one guy is good when he’s 18, and the other guy is not good when he’s 18, you should draft the good one. A guy having one draftable season out of 4 is a red flag to me. Nearly all of the top players in the NBA are one and done or two and done because they were exceptional at a young age. You can bring up Curry, Klay, Dame, Price, George Mikan, whatever, but you’re listing guys who were already top players as soon as they stepped… Read more »
How about Larry Bird? I think he was five or six and done?
Obviously most of the best players go to the NBA as soon as they can. BUT:
So you have to take the “best bet”.
Larry came out as a junior. Magic came out as a sophomore.
I think Larry’s year at IU counted, which would make him a senior.
I have a friend who made a mid major team in his 30’s as a walk-on. He turned out not to be eligible because he has signed to play for a Jr College a dozen or so years earlier. He quit before the first practice, but it still “started the clock” on his eligibility.
“already top players as soon as they stepped on the court”.. what are you talking about ? mark price scored 7 pts first year.. klay scored 13..larry nance scored 6.6.. mchale scored 10.. drexler scored 8.. players mature when they mature.. yes, savants exist.. but most actually need to train to get great, and even the great need to train to maintain..
Best players on the court in college
you a natalie merchent fan ?
I am — great voice.
mchale scored 12 and 13 ppg in years 1 and 2.. he improved with time.. like almost every pro athlete in any sport..
Curry took a bit. Didn’t break 20 ppg until year 4. First all-star in year 5.
Now, guys like Mikan, Russell, Kareem Wilt, Oscar, Bird, Baylor, West, Doc, Magic, etc., they were top guys the minute they stepped on an NBA/ABA court.
That does not mean they did not get better, however.
The fact is, almost all the guys picked today are friggin’ babies compared to the players that played 3-4 years prior. In terms of production and readiness.
College ball is diluted because most of the best players don’t stick for 4 years. Or even 2. And if any of today’s guys put up numbers like guys of yesteryear, they’d go pro at once. I would, too..
Maravich was 40+ ppg, 3 years in a row, with no 3 PT line. Dale Brown went back & watched the tape, 50 ppg with 3 PT line.
Same thing in the NBA. You have a lot of guys getting minutes, not necessarily earning minutes. They have potential, but need experience. They have to learn how to play.
Old school, guys were much further along before turning pro. Fewer teams, too. Less tanking. Etc.
good point. comparing different eras is iffy as always.
HaHa! Good to see Mikan’s name come up in the debate!
Sorry, should have been more clear. These successful 3/4 year guys were already top players their first year in college. Klay and Dame maybe not until Sophomore year. Point being, guys who are good early are almost always the ones that succeed. In that sense age does matter. And jeepers creepers obviously guys get better who is saying they don’t?
fred van vleet .. 4 years in college.. couldn’t resist.. there is certainly a talent “floor” that exists to allow a person to compete in the nba, but i do believe that the willingness to put forth the effort (discipline) to improve, which is intimately connected to character, is an important factor.. bird shot 700-800 free throws per day.. today, i think most are seduced by the checks, and just float through the nba on talent.. effort can trump talent, sometimes.. anyone can shoot free throws, if they practice.. easy to build muscle, and neurons simply need training to learn
steve nash.. 4 years in college.. they just keep coming don’t they ? ray allen.. 3 years in college.. larry nance sr.. 4 years in college.. kevin mchale.. 4 years in college.. paul pierce.. 3 years in college.. clyde drexler.. 3 years
WHEN DOES SUMMER LEAGUE BEGIN—WHO IS PLAYING FOR THE CAVS—-HAVE THE CAVS PICKED UP ANY UNDRAFTED PLAYERS// WHO IS OUT THERE TO GO AFTER ——CAVS SHOULD PLAY WINDLER JUST TO TRY TO GET A READ ON HIM
Starts 7/8 against Spurs
I thought guys could only play for two years. Did I dream that?
PREACH BUCKAROO BROTHER —PREACH —HAVE COME AROUND ON THE PICK AFTER DOING MORE ‘HOMEWORK ‘ ON HIM
they are beating me up NOMAD bro.. but it matters little.. i am what i am.. big popeye fan.. and he was a tough oldster..
I am with you, Buck.
Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Bird, Duncan, West, Dr. J, Karl Malone.
Bad picks, too old when they got drafted/too many years in college. No upside.
just looking at the bb reference,, surprised about all the controversy.. when a player starts to “get it” it’s time to take notice.. whether in high school, college or the pros.. just like technical analysis in the markets.. the trend is your friend.. you see excellence,, chances are you see more next year.. even dr j only scored 14 his first year at umass
But was a 20/20 guy (averages) after 4 years.
Today, he goes pro after the 2nd year, 3rd at the latest.
If there was a 6’6″ guy averaging 20/20 in college, people’d be losing their minds.
i was in boston from ’79-’82.. fun times at the old garden (smelled like municipal stadium lavatories).. bird vs the doctor.. the jones brothers, chief, tiny, toney, mo.. a rollicking good time
The “Beat L.A.” chants reigning down on the 76ers in Boston in 1982 was one of the coolest and most surreal moments in sports. I think it was ’82.
Especially after Boston came back to Beat Philly from 3-1 down in 1981. Best series I have ever seen. Last 3 games all within a bucket.
Andrey Toney: “The Boston Strangler”
full disclosure.. i was on the ochai train from the get go.. i get that many ctb bros had different viewpoints on fit and talent, but i do not get at all this issue that many have with age and years in college.. as though this “floor” and “ceiling” dynamic is written in stone depending on those variables.. both stephen curry AND klay thompson spent 3 years in college !!!.. i rest my case.. cavs needed 3 pt shooting.. ochai fits the bill.. he improves every year and has succeeded on a big stage under bright lights.. if you want… Read more »
Came here to say something similar. Basically wanted to ask if there’s really any analytics that back the idea that these 4 year college players have hit their ceiling. Seems absurd to me, but I don’t sit around staring at spreadsheets so who knows.
the curry and thompson 3 yr college stint should put a rest to that nonsense.. curry top 10 all time.. thompson top 50? top 75 ?? on klay, whatever the “top” number is, he is a perennial all-star and 4 time champion.. the obsession with juvenile 18 yr olds who have the maturity of junior high schoolers is ridiculous..
cj mccollum spent 4 years at lehigh !!! helloooo… does anyone do research before they run their mouths on this “upside deficit” that supposedly taints ALL draftees who spend more than 1 yr in college hoops.. ??
No one’s doing that here buck, why are you complaining?
I literally posted an article advocating to draft Jalen Williams, who’s nearly 22 years old.
You are, or at least seem to me, a big backer of the age thing in the draft.
I know we have gone back & forth on it.
I’m on record saying it is absurd. Take your guy.
22. 21. 20. 19. 18. Whatever.
No I am not, I even say that below.
The reason I don’t prefer Agbaji to say Branham has to do with the skills they demonstrate on tape, and their production relative to each other.
Also the same reason why i preferred Jalen Williams, skill and production, not age.
I don’t think Buck is arguing with you. He (and me, etc. ) are arguing against the “red flag theory”, that drafting anyone over 19 is a blunder.
thx.. well spoken.. this isn’t quantum gravity theory we are debating
OK, but literally no one said that taking “anyone over 19” is a blunder, literally no one has typed those words.
Harvard did an aging curve study, college or not doesn’t matter, the average NBA player’s peak BPM happens between ages 25-27. It suggests those ages are the ideal blend of peak athleticism and experience.
The only thing being an upperclassman means is statistically they’re closer to their peak performance as an NBA player.
That’s somewhat true. Plenty of studies show that draft age correlates to NBA success. That’s mostly because if a player is good at 18 they’re going to enter the draft. You can’t just have the 3 most famous examples of 4 year players and say “See!”. There are literally dozens more players who entered early and were successful. That’s also what makes the Ochai pick scary. Klay, Dame, and Steph were all elite shooters and players from their freshman season. Ochai has basically one above average college season in 4. Added to his poor FT shooting I will shocked if… Read more »
I do have the same concern with Agbaji as you, based on exactly the things you mention; but I wouldn’t go that far as basically predicting him to be a bust already. That said every time the Cavs bring a shooter in, it never seems to pan out so…
sure — Kyle Korver and JR Smith were useless
not saying he is going to be a star, nor that he should have gone higher.. i think he has a very good chance of having a nice 10 year career averaging in the mid teens.. folks get better when they get better.. jerami grant is a great example.. he stunk for 6 years, and slowly put it together after that.. now he is a franchise centerpiece.. for me, when folks are on a growth path, usually bodes well.. took brunson 3 years, after 3 in college.. now he is a stud in very high demand and is going to… Read more »
The Harvard study said there are three main components to player development in the NBA: 1. Draft position (higher the better/more chances), 2. minutes, and 3. team success.
Age in isolation doesn’t mean much imo, age + production at least gives one a floor that can be identified along with a ceiling that can be projected.
Yes, but higher drafted players are disproportionately young.
tim duncan.. 4 years at wake.. i know, i know.. means nothing.. ginobili started his pro career at 22-23, didn’t start with the spurs until he was 25-26
And his pal David Robinson — four years at Naval Academy.
thx for the support raoul bro..
mark price.. 4 years at georgia tech..
Do you want me to make a separate post for every player who didn’t play in college and was good? You’re listing some of the greatest players in college history. All that means is they should have left college sooner. The trick would be to find someone who stunk until their senior year but succeeded in the NBA. Preferably somebody in the past 25 years lol
i don’t need to find the trick.. you can look for it.. you think ochai busts ? could be.. we will find out, but as a huge critic of kolby numnuts over the years, i just happen to agree with this pick.. maybe branham was better, time will tell.. williams was gone at #12, and griffin has knee issues.. let’s hope for the cavs sake koby and co were on their game when they made the pick.. my biggest point is 4 years on college isn’t a guarantee of failure and mediocrity.. do uncertainties exist ? absolutely.. as an aside..… Read more »
I looked for the trick I couldn’t find it. I do agree with your point about the nature of probability though. We absolutely do not know the results of something until that something is finished. So not point in putting any trust in analytics. I’m gonna go see if I can have my vaccines reversed.
good luck on the latter
Analytics and statistics are totally important, BUT they are very hard to get right.
right. most years I am arguing with Buck!
nah.. you’re coming around to my point of view on most issues..
funny, I was going to say the same thing!
Agbagi’s junior year is better than 4-6 guys who went in the top 20.
Sharpe, Daniels, Sochan, Griffin, etc.
not surprised.. folks love to ignore inconvenient truths.. thx jason, ochai appreciates it
How do you know Mark Price didn’t like being in college? He did fine after college, and I don’t recall him ever being in any of the trouble that often finds 19 year olds with millions.
I think the one good year thing is a much more valid concern than the age thing, which is ridiculous.
But there are a lot of guys getting drafted who have never even had ONE good year. Or one year at all. Sharpe. Dieng. Daniels. Sochan. Griffin. Baldwin. Brown. Keels. Heck, Diop fits that bill.
No one seems to care that they have done NADA.
FWIW, I’d draft Keegan Murray over Ivey every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
ain’t buying it. the correlation is largely due to the ultra good guys like LeBron who usually go ASAP.
As for this past draft: guess what? there did not appear to be any “LeBrons” available at pick 14. So you go with your best guess.
Pretty much all post draft assessments give the Ochai pick a “pretty good”, “not bad”, “safe”, “ho hum”, … , rating.
Or, if the average guy is taken at 20, that it takes 5-7 years in the NBA to peak.
For a guy like Agbaji, there may be a chance for more development than average. He came to basketball relatively late, he was a soccer player growing up, who went to hoops after a huge growth spurt. If I were the Cavs staff, I would focus on his dribble and handle. Nobody expects him to be DG out there, but he needs to be more secure with the dribble. Otherwise good defensive players will look to just take the ball from him. i don’t think ‘development’ is an exact science, since every player is different. I do think at some… Read more »
There is certainly some correlation in that the ultra good players, like LeBron, usually go to the NBA ASAP. But if you take them out of the stats, that is different.
There is also a lot of maturity that comes with several years in college, and that ain’t chopped liver. For example, would Kyrie be such a head case if he had a few more years before he was a multi millionaire? Dunno.
right.
and the majority of the mock drafts had the Cavs taking him, so it is not really a “WTF?” situation.
One report I read said that Ochai really shot well in his workout, and so perhaps he has turned a corner there and can be a good 3-D option. The team is short on players that can really guard the perimeter. Maybe he can be that guy. That is worth a 14th pick.
A one-off good shooting performance?: As a scientist, I have to invoke our code: “Once is nunce, twice is nice, thrice is best of all”.
I understand the whole workout audition thing. It’s a job like any other, gotta jump through hoops. It’s useless in predicting short or long term performance though, only useful in determining: has his injury healed, is this dude on drugs, is he able to converse with management / trainers / team in a coherent fashion.
That said, I like the Ochai pick!
Yup, I think the biggest thing they could take away from his workout is his high-level basketball character.
He was super impressive in the press conference. Now we’ll see how that translates on the court with the team.
One off?
He was the leading scorer on the team that won the national title. Final Four MOP. Big 12 Player of the Year. Big 12 Tournament MVP.
Shot 40.7% from deep on over 6.5 attempts per game (with a significant number coming on the move, not just standing & waiting). 58% from one corner and 42% from the other, IIRC. And 38% the year prior on high volume.
When the workout reinforces ywo years of performance + elite athleticism + excellent work ethic, I’d trust it more.
Agree that relying on, or giving too much weight to a workout seems silly.
If you like a guy and he tanks the workout, you can always have him back.
Would you feel comfortable taking a guy who stunk up the workout?
I liked the pick at 14. I have no idea about the 2nd rounders, and I do wonder if Rubio is in the cards for the backup PG?
According to Fedor, Rubio coming back is a “done deal” according to some of the Cavs’ brass.
I think the Cavs want him back as a player coach/vibes guy who can coach up all the guards.
If he comes back at 75% of what he was last year, I will take it.
He was in rare form from the Olympics onwards. I doubt he can get back there, but sweet Jesus how good would it be if he did?
Worth the punt.
100%, team’s net rating went from contender to average as soon as he went down.
Well, he ain’t gonna be playing early on.
I hope Fedor/Cavs brass is spot on. If Rubio is back to 80% of last year’s self by the spring, I will be doing cartwheels.
Still need a backup PG until then. Nembhard won’t fly. The Okoro experiment might continue.
that is some good news!
There’s no version of win now that involves Sexton and Lavert competing for back up PG minutes. You can close your eyes and imagine a future where Sexton is a bench scoring king, but there is a ton of tape proving that neither are PGs and neither contribute to winning basketball.
right. maybe “Contend Now”.
Agreed, back up point guard wasn’t a priority last night even though that was the key to the Cavs’ higher ceiling last year.
plus that is how the draft fell. according to Fedor, everyone wanted way too much to trade down.
Memphis paid the tax and made moves, Cavs could’ve too!
pretty sure most of the mock drafts had the Cavs taking Agbaji, so I don’t see it as a surprise at all.
They had 3 picks in the second round, and that’s what I’m talking about in regard to Memphis.
Harkens back to the Lebron 1.0 drafts where they just stashed and got fringe talent. I think Agbaji will be a fine player. I wouldn’t count on the rest of the draft to result in anything. Moses Brown at 22 not a better player than Diop? Similar comps on the 2021-2 roster to Travers. I know those two might be stashes but not sure why you trade players/picks to get stashes. I feel some trades might be happening before the season starts.
I hope so
HaHa — things a bit chippy!
Realistically no one knows how the new guys will pan out — other than the Ozzie, who is a long long long shot.
Most years there are only a couple guys that appear to be “can’t miss” and then a bunch who exceed expectations. I always assume we will get lucky until proven otherwise.
Anyone see much of Isaiah Mobley? That would be awesome if he becomes a rotation player. If that happens, I vote for drafting their dad next year too!
Mobley’s definitely a possible rotation player, he was definitely underrated going into the draft.
I have to be the one who starts the “Aussie not Ozzie” campaign, I guess. #cultureclash
Sporting News with a B- (overall).
Liked Agbaji, but the 2nds not so much.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-grades-2022-best-pistons-worst-bulls/xgtk9iw7r2fg0qy1gxwipdzm
Another “take it for whatever it is worth” thing, USA Today gave us an A+ (but they gave a lot of A+’s).
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/2022-nba-draft-grades-and-analysis-for-every-first-round-pick/ss-AAYQ16z#image=14
This is a great point Chris:
“Interestingly, the Agbaji pick for the Cavs leaves the impression of a team operating as a “win now” team rather than a lottery team, which the Cavs actually are.”
They need way more talent. They still don’t have a SF who can dribble, unless you count Cedi, but he has very obvious limitations. They desperately needed a ball handler (or 4) and didn’t draft a single one.
Yup 100% agree, the bench was clearly inadequate in the play-in tournament. I do think Wade and Stevens have adequate handles, but obviously Wade tore up his knee and Stevens can’t shoot. Cedi can dribble as well, but he really can’t get to the rim off the dribble.
This is why I think Sexton and LeVert have secured their spots on the roster, because both of them can actually dribble LMFAOOO
FWIW, Chris, though we disagreed on Agbaji & Diop (and I realize I may be on an island there, but ESPN had him 32nd), I think you are 100% correct on Sexton & LeVert being back and being in more of a win-now mode.
Also, sorry if my criticism seemed too harsh. I meant to disagree, not disrespect. Mad respect for you and all the writers and the CtB community.
This may be TMI, but have been taking a steroid for a condition recently. Have never been on one before, and I think it is making me overly aggressive. Am aware now and will try to dial it back. Not an excuse, just an explanation. Apologies to you (or anyone else) if I offended. Try to bear with me.
In the nicest and most respectful way possible, I disagree with your assessment of how (much) Agbaji can help the O, his defense (too much emphasis on stock rate for me), and the philosophy of big swings vs bunts at this stage. Plus, I felt you did not give credit where credit is due. Agbaji was not just an experienced guy on a successful team. He was the leading scorer on a national championship team and Final Four MVP. Consensus all-american. Big 12 player of the year. And Big 12 tournament MVP. None of which I would have gleaned form… Read more »
That’s fine you can disagree with that, but I’m going to trust my own judgments and not going to ignore clear weaknesses when the stats say they are there. And it’s not just stock rate, Agbaji is a terrible rebounder too, which is another obvious problem the Cavs had last year. And in my evaluation, tape is king. If you watched Kansas, you’d know that it was Christian Braun, Dejuan Harris, and Remy Martin who made the offense go. Agbaji was the recipient of their offensive creation. This shouldn’t be a controversial thing to say especially since the same argument… Read more »
Agreed. Expecially on the glass.
But you’d also agree that steals & blocks are not the same thing as good defense. And you went over the top (in my view). You said his D sucked (or good D from him was imaginary).
And we don’t need him to be a creator (at least with DG, Rubio on the court).
We needed shooting from our perineter players far more than rebounding. Both eould be better, but if I have to choose..
Where did I say his defense sucked??? Quit making shit up this is getting ridiculous.
LMFAOOOO man it’s all good Jason! I’m the same way of course dudes being dudes. No need to apologize for health issues
I think there’s confusion surrounding this because of the narrative the Cavs organization is trying to push, which contradicts their own prior public statements and what other outside experts say.
My enterprise is to “amalgamize” everything, and what emerges is the Cavs’ own contradictions… I’m just calling it out.
Not at all TMI Jason.
I don’t often reply to your posts as they are usually fact/data-based, which are hard to argue with! This does not mean I don’t read, appreciate and synthesise them.
You are a massive contributor to this blog, and I’m pretty sure the whole CtB crew love what you do. Shoot your shot, my man.
RAOUL—THANK YOU—WATCHED THE CLIPS ON DIOP——–” MAYBE I HAVE HAD TOO MANY BEERS PLEASE “——BUT HE HAS AN “EMBIID BODY—AND MOVES LIKE HIM “—NOT SAYING HE IS THE 2ND COMING OF EMBIID —BUT THERE ARE SIMALARITIES
VERY GOOD WORK—–OCHAI DID WELL IN THE COMBINES–4TH IN VERTICAL —BELIEVE 6′!0 ” WING SPAN——WHAT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO IMPROVE ON—-SHOOTING OR BALLHANDLING —-OCHAI ALREADY HAS THE SHOOTING// BELIEVE WITH HARD WORK—( ALL ARROWS POINT TO HIM BEING A VERY HARD WORKER)–SO NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION HE CAN IMPROVE HIS HANDLES —–ALSO THINK HE FITS THE ‘CHEMISTRY’ MOLD AS A VERY HIGH UPGRADE PERSON// TEAM 1ST PLAYER ——–YEAH CLF YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF SELLING ME ON WILLIAMS I TOO WAS TOTALLY BUMMED WHEN OKC DRAFTED HIM// WTF —–ALSO WAS HOPING CAVS WOULD TAKE BROWN IN THE 2ND//… Read more »
Thanks NOMAD! Honestly both shooting and ball-handling are difficult to improve upon, which is why they’re the two most sought after skills in the NBA. As Gregg Popovich has said, “they am what they am”.
Agbaji definitely a high character guy from all impression 100%.
Thanks for doing the piece, Chris.
I agree with some of it (the second round was disappointing) but I think it is a bit too hypercritical and hot-takey, even so. And you contradict yourself a bit.
Plus, I think your analysis of Agbaji misses a lot. As does your total dismissal of Diop (whom I like). I will expound a bit below, but let’s just say we disagree on a lot in terms of player evaluation and the wisdom of big swings.
On Agbagi.
Agree that he is limited as a playmaker at this stage. And we have a log jam of SGs. Also agree that this hints at LeVert/Sexton PG minutes, and that neither of those things is a good thing.
But I disagree on almost everything else.
First off, you don’t seem to think anyone who isn’t a dribble penetration guy can help maximize DG, JA, & Mobes. This is way off.
Shooting & spacing will help DG, JA, and Mobes in the P&R game. Plus, Agbaji isn’t just a guy who sat in the corner and made shots (Griffin), he makes shots off of movement & screens, and is a willing screen setter. Expect Curry/Thompson type actions with Agbagi screening for DG. Mobley functioning as Dray.
“First off, you don’t seem to think anyone who isn’t a dribble penetration guy can help maximize DG, JA, & Mobes. This is way off.”
You’re misunderstood about what I’m saying here. I’m saying:
PnR + spot up shooting >>>>> just spot up shooting. If the goal is maximizing usage for Allen and Mobley, having a guy who can do both, rather than just one thing, is by definition better.
Apologies. My mistake. But again, you don’t factor in movement/shooting off screens. I think your view of players as p&r OR spot up shooters is too binary. Yes, I’d rather have a guy who can do both. I said so. And Agbaji certainly cannot do both. But guys who can move without the ball & shoot off movement are a whole different thing than guys who just stand there waiting for a pass. That is one of the things that Agbaji does well, and a lot of the other guys do not. I did not see a mention of that… Read more »
To continue with your GSW example, and maximizing Curry off ball. I’d note that Klay isn’t exactly a wizard putting the ball on the floor and attacking the rack. Though he certainly has improved. They set a lot of actions for Klay with off ball movement/screens. Curry will start the play, and then move, with screens, on the other side, sometimes relicating to Klay’s side.
The guy who puts the ball on the floor to attack the rack is Draymond (or Livingston/Iggy back in the day). For us that guy is Mobley.
I mean, our guys will likely never be on GSW’s level. But I see DG as Curry, Mobley as Draymond, and Agbagi as Klay. Allen is Looney/Bogut/McGee and is off floor for max Curry off ball most times (Death lineup).
Rubio would be Livingston. Okoro would be Iggy. LeVert could maybe approximate Barnes. Sexton Poole? We don’t have a Wiggins (or KD) on the roster.
I just don’t get how a basketball guy does not get how spacing & movement helps an offense. Now, I’d certainly prefer a guy who can do both things. We are in agreement there.
Second, you don’t seem to get what position he plays. First you lament his lack of playmaking when comparing assist rates for perimeter players (fair). Then you say “his skill set reflects a player who can only play “3 and D” small forward or small ball power forward.” Then compare his stocks to someone oike Eason, who is a forward/big in college.
I understand how spacing & movement helps the offense. Why are you being condescending towards me?
Secondly I fully understand what position he plays… he was the small forward at Kansas and has the skill set of an NBA forward with the lack of onball creation and passing.
Eason is projected as a small forward/small ball big with a similar skill set, and can actually dribble the ball and finish at the rim with elite efficiency.
Not going to respond further to you since you’re lacking in respect towards me.
You said
“The inability to attack the rim and pass the ball makes this pick perplexing, even downright inexcusable in the context of finding players that maximize the Cavs’ two star front court players Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, or maximizing Darius Garland in an off-ball shooting guard role like Steph Curry.”
I took from that that you feel only a perimeter playmaker type (who can pass and attack the rim off the bounce) can maximize the other guys.
I think guys who can space the floor and move without the ball can be helpful as well. Though like I said, a guy who can do both was better.
Further, you said the pick was inexcuseable. That is over the top. In my view.
You just made my point. You still didn’t say shooting guard.
You are analyzing him vs combo guards, or, alternatively, forwards. That was the contradiction I mentioned. He is a SG. Maybe some SF. Altman (or JB) said so.
I get you wanted a playmaker, or a bigger SF/PF type. Perfectly reasonable. We need both. You may indeed be right. But I thought inexcuseable was a bit strong.
Power forward and small forward only? You are off the reservation there. He is a two guard. Shooting guard in the old sense. Who can play some three due to long arms and a solid build. Therefore I don’t really sweat the low assist rates. He does not put the ball down much. That is not his job, nor is he good at it. (and he knows it). Therefore, his stats will reflect that when compared to other guys who are combo/pg types. Does that reflect a limitation in his game? Sure. But when comparing players, beware comparing apples and… Read more »
Thanks for reading as always Jason!
Not sure what contradictions you’re talking about without you explaning, doesn’t do much for conversation and the sharing of knowledge/info.
Same with your disagreements… feel free to express them, maybe we can all learn something!
Patience grasshopper.
I said I’d expound below.
(That means in another post). The comments, if they are much more than a tweet, get squished.
That isn’t that helpful for the sharing of information.
This feels a bit to me like 2004 when Cavs had one more bite at the apple and took Luke Jackson.
The last pick – Luke from Oz… If they are going to draft-and-stash, why not a PG like Besson from NZ or earlier the Italian kid (Spagnolo?)
I’m not mad about the second round picks cause I dont think they Cavs need any more rooks and quite frankly I’m surprised they didnt trade the picks. The team got a ‘vet’ rook in Ogjabi who while limited in some places has a good shot, kicked ass on the #1 team in the country and basically all other draft analysts love this pick for the Cavs, and these analysts at least to me aren’t slouches. The Cavs need vets to fill in the blanks, whether thats Rubio, or they go big with LaVine, but this team needs more experience… Read more »
That’s a fair point about trying to acquire veterans… absolutely necessary to take the next step especially if it’s supposed to be now.
Repost reply to critiques of Cavs draft — Recall the CtB consensus at the time: Most everyone was against picking Garland because of the “two small guards” issue. I kept putting in my $0.02 worth about not repeating the blunder of “not picking Lillard because we already had KI”. That is how we got St. Wierdo. The majority was also appalled at the extension for Jarrett Allen. How is that looking now? How about the general gnashing of teeth about trading for and extending Lauri? A lot of people seem to have an axiom that Koby is an idiot, and… Read more »
No one was “appalled” about Jarrett Allen LMFAOOO, hyperbole much???
Also, there was no bigger fan of Garland than me around these parts, name names if you’re gonna criticize.
I didn’t say (or recall) what side of these issues you were on. I am just reminding everyone that there was plenty of criticism in the comments on CtB about both of those moves.
This is just to illustrate that the instant criticism of the draft is likely to prove an overreaction.
Diop cant shoot? Really?
Check out this reenactment of young Hakeem in this repost of MikeO:
Peachtree Hoops has the best scouting report I’ve seen for Diop. Link for those interested:
https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2022/6/10/23160397/2022-nba-draft-scouting-report-khalifa-diop-offense-defense-analysis-video-fit-with-atlanta-hawks
thanks for that link, Raoul! A bit more comforting indeed.
Thanks to MikeO, who found that link!
That bummed me out Chris! Lol. If Ochai isn’t a plus defender, I’m not sure why he would take minutes from any of the SGs we already have on the roster. Maybe they see him as a SF? 6’5” is just too small though, esp when the SGs we have are all even shorter. The more I think about it, just a really perplexing draft from Koby.
LMFAOOO I’m sorry TTM!!! I’m honestly more bummed about the 2nd round though.
I 100% believe they see him as a 3, even though Koby just stated he’s a 2 LMFAOOO… Koby included the caveat that JB will have the final say on that.
1. Elite athleticism 2. Excellent 3 point shooter 3. Excellent perimeter defender with an NBA ready body 4. An NCAA champion and MVP. 5. Proven work ethic, consistently improved throughout his college career. Seems to me these are all elements the Cavs were sorely missing last year. My guess is an individual with his physical tools and mind set can easily develop a better handle and some passing chops if that’s peoples hesitation with him. A lot of great players develop their passing skills as their careers move forward I think this kid is going to have an immediate impact.… Read more »
Okoro is a year younger. I’m not convinced Ochai is a good defender. The stock rate is troubling, considering that’s generally a good indicator of NBA success. He just seems to lack touch in general. Can’t pass, can’t dribble, can’t finish, no stocks.
He does seem to be a very bright kid, so I’d expect improvement in terms of anticipation, recognition skills.
Not prepared to say he’s an excellent defender. Also not quite prepared to say he’s an excellent 3 point shooter, I’d say he’s a massively improved college 3 point shooter. But I don’t mind the positive vibes!!!
Right, one excellent season of 3 point shooting and 4 years of bad to middling FT shooting. Def a lil scary
yeah it’s not a lock at this point. If it were (along with the defense), he’d be a top 5-10 prospect.
Stein reporting that the Knicks are planning to offer Brunson a four year/ $100 million deal when free agency opens. I only mention it because he’s a small shooting guard like Sexton, and Sexton’s camp will no doubt point to that number. Problem is, Brunson is better than Sexton right now…and that is a big number, even so.
Was really bummed they didn’t at least take Rollins when they could have. The only pick I really liked in the 2nd is Mobley, and he may actually play NBA minutes next season. Not sure how much I can blame Altman for not moving up and getting another late 1st — nobody else moved up, either, and I’m sure numerous teams tried. It’s likely no teams were willing to trade out of the first round, or at least not without prohibitive compensation. Teams are smarter about the draft nowadays. I don’t think any teams did anything very stupid or irresponsible.… Read more »
“nobody else moved up” don’t understand what you’re talking about, 26, 29, 37, 38, 40, and 44 were all traded for last night???
I meant nobody traded up from the 2nd round into the first. As far as I recall, no one did.
sure, but that’s kind of besides the point… the point was there were picks available via trade in the range where all the point guards went.
Agree 100% about OKC’s draft… home run draft IMO