RIP 2024-2025 Cavs, Open Thread: NBA Finals/Draft/FA
2025-06-07Good afternoon CtB!
The dust has settled on the 2024-25 Cleveland Cavaliers, and the NBA is fast barrelling towards the new league year in less than a month. It’s finally time to perform the autopsy, without further ado…
1. What happened? Data Edition
From a strictly statistical point of view, the story it tells of the Cavs’ playoff run is that two out of the three point guards the Cavs use, Darius Garland and Ty Jerome, simply didn’t show up when it mattered most. Whether by injury or poor performance the Cavs got absolutely nothing from their All-Star, max contract point guard and now there’s the beginning of a pattern of playoff dropping from DG. This pains me to say because DG is literally the one of the most entertaining players in the NBA, but he’s not showing any ability to rise/maintain his excellent play against the NBA’s best. Part of the blame could lie in the fact that you have to tailor your roster to DG’s game in order to maximize him, in the same vein as the Denver Nuggets do Nikola Jokic (surround an elite offensive engine with four elite defenders). You have to surround DG with elite size and length to compensate for his massive shortcomings on defense/rebounding. So far, Coach Kenny Atkinson isn’t exactly JB Bickerstaff in toying with big lineups, instead preferring small ball. There’s also an evolution happening in the game that doesn’t bode well for DG’s future:
Short NBA players (6'3'' or under) are playing fewer minutes and possessing the ball much less than they did just five seasons ago
Story below ⬇️ pic.twitter.com/UtqGEJUgYy
— Lev Akabas (@LevAkabas) June 6, 2025
Try some adjustments next time, KA?
One of the most baffling things from Coach of the Year Kenny Atkinson was his desire to watch 350 playoff minutes of Ty Jerome and Darius Garland with explosive diarrhea on the court instead of trying to coach up Craig Porter Jr., who was very successful against the same NBA Finalist Indiana Pacers several weeks ago, and get him playoff ready for more than 30 minutes. In the same vein, instead of having quicker hooks on Dean Wade, DeAndre Hunter, or Isaac Okoro, he instead shuffled between the trio watching them play with utter passivity and lack of physicality instead of trying Jaylon Tyson and Javonte Green, both of whom more than held their own against the Pacers in the same vein as CPJ did at the end of the regular season. It probably would’ve made no difference in the outcome, but to not even try? Great plan to keep running DG and Ty out there to flail and fail Coach! That’s why they pay you the big bucks!!!
Early Slop returns…
Word is that Cavs are “active” in the trade market right now, but not to expect any big changes, according to NBA insider Brian Windhorst. He essentially said that the Cavs “owe it to themselves” to explore trade possibilities before the new league year begins July 1st and the Cavs at the point become a 2nd apron team. Once the Cavs are locked into the 2nd apron, their options for modifying their roster are almost nil unless they dump around 13 million in salary before the end of the league year June 30th, 2026. So there will be changes, but to what extent?
Brand new '5 Good Min With Windy' episode is LIVE with @WindhorstESPN talking:
– Cavs active in trade talks
– What 2nd apron means for roster
– NBA Finals talkWATCH: https://t.co/ECZZcm3yQF
Presented by @truenorthstores & @traveltruefan pic.twitter.com/OP7vYeMfNU
— ESPN Cleveland (@ESPNCleveland) June 6, 2025
What should the Cavs do?
The most obvious pieces of business to address first is re-signing Sam Merrill and Ty Jerome. Sam Merrill is a complete no-brainer to retain, lock him up until he’s 30 years old and then re-assess. As for Ty, I think you have to keep him, especially if you’re exploring potential trade options with Darius Garland. Also, ironically his playoff decline against the Pacers makes him more retain-able for the Cavs. I’m willing to give him a pass given this was his first meaningful basketball of his career. Hopefully, he’s gotten the yips out of the way.
I’ve changed my mind these playoffs…
Given what’s transpired these playoffs, I’ve changed my mind about several players going into next year. First of all, I think that Jarrett Allen should be untouchable unless you’re bringing in a Giannis Antetokuoumpo-type of star. The Cavs simply can’t afford to lose any playoff playable bigs or rebounding. If anything, as Nate Smith astutely points out, the Cavs really need to find an actual third playable big, whether it’s a stretch 4 wing or bruising, Steven Adams goon 5.
Another player I’ve changed mind my on, to a lesser degree, is Isaac Okoro. His compatibility with Sam Merrill and Max Strus is I think key to the success of the bench lineups and Dean Wade’s complete unwillingness to shoot the basketball in the playoffs makes him unplayable. I’d rather see minutes go to Jaylon Tyson and Javonte Green (if we can keep him) to compete and eventually win over Okoro’s minutes, but at least Okoro was willing to shoot a brick instead of shit one whenever he was passed the ball.
Parting Draft thoughts:
Here's how this year's prospects perform according to my "Statistical Indicators for VORP/YR" study.
I used career stats from BartTorvik and included all NBA Combine attendees and some under-the-radar guys who I think have a chance to make an impact in the league.
*NCAA Only* pic.twitter.com/RgztCeALJw
— Colton (@criggsNBA) May 29, 2025
For pick 49, there’s some possible options for the Cavs to provide back end roster competition… Vlad Goldin or Amari Williams would represent tremendous value picks. Also throw out Eric Dixon and John Tonje as CPJ or Sam Merrill like prospects of graduating seniors who could provide cheap labor without the hassles of a younger, less mature professional. The rumor is that the 2nd round will be destroyed for the next few years because of NIL money influence college basketball, but as of this moment there are opportunities to be had.
I am counting on EM making another big improvement this coming year. who else?
can Hunter finally make a big step?
anyone else in addition to the rookies? Ty and Struss might. I don’t think Wade can.
I think it is highly likely the Cavs will keep the core four together. for a few years they will always have a shot at winning it all if they are healthy. last year JA had cracked ribs, this year DG had a broken toe. so they will need to be a bit lucky to win it. another aspect is that having three max players makes it really hard to keep the serious contender window open for an extended period. if you want to take a hard look, JA is on a bargin contract, DM and EM are absolutely max… Read more »
SOME VERY VALID POINTS MR STEAL / WINDMILL—- I SHARE THEM WITH YOU——- MAYBE KJG WILL BACK OFF THE DG TRADE “ STAMPEDE “
Ice probably gets something like a stay of execution here too. some minutes open up for him. probably fool’s gold but I think it’s an (unearned) opportunity for him to show more.
the clueless level of sports commentary is rapidly increasing. I think a lot of it is AI and other team’s fans wishful thinking.
Garland getting surgery on his toe, out 5 months.
fk everyone that called him soft for gutting through it, I called this in real time. we did the same thing with Allen last year with cracked ribs.
also fk the FO for not being transparent and just shutting him down. costs him training camp at least.
His attempting to play was admirable; my problem is with KA for being so locked into the regular season rotation that he wouldn’t give CPJ some burn when it reached the point where Garland could barely walk, let alone play. Of course CPJ wasn’t plan A for the postseason; but he had to be a better option at that moment than an All-star PG who was unable to freaking walk due to an injury. 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ And also Ty for crapping the bed against the Pacers, though it was his first time actually playing in the playoffs so it’s understandable if… Read more »
Ty walks into a starting spot with a team that he’s built for. He should get the $14m, he will flash a ton of good stuff pre-ASB, and if CPJ (who will also get minutes) looks awesome, then they can move Ty for a $14m player in February.
Some silver linings here for sure.
Definitely need regular minutes for CPJ and Tyson, and with starters/rotation guys before garbajje time arrives. Maybe as the second substitutions near start of second quarter, and maybe just for 3-4 minutes.
Good points – if DG is out five months, then definitely they need Ty to open the season as the starter, and even when DG comes back it’s not like they can just ramp him up instantly to 30+ minutes per game. So they can get a long look at a starting five of Ty/Donovan/Hunter/Mobley/Allen, reintegrate DG, then take stock of everything before the deadline.
Disagree, they’ll want to stagger Spida and Ty, I’d look at either Strus or Merrill at starting guard, then Hunter/Mobley/JA. Play up one don’t play down one and burn your other high usage PG.
agree the big lineup should be used, but disagree on timing. would use the big lineups to close and would not burden Spida with PG responsibilities to start every game. don’t feel super strong about it, but every “spida is full time PG” stretch has ended with him hurt and us mediocre.
Spida was able to be super productive / efficient to start games last year while basically in chill mode off ball. Spida and Ty is big enough defensively, and Porter is fine as a backup, and might be better than fine.
right. every theory that includes either DM as full time PG, or EM as full time C is utter nonesense. these writers don’t have a clue about basketball, or probably any sport for that matter.
Yeah, we’re probably on survive and advance until Xmas. But that’s not bad! Ty and Porter are good players.
Mitchell has improved a ton as a playmaker so I’m fine with it in spurts but full time is a disaster recipe.
But is it playing as a PG, specifically, that wears Donovan down, or is it just carrying a heavy minutes and usage load in general? When he’s broken down physically in postseason, it’s not been after playing as a distributor but rather going hero mode as a scorer for an extended series of postseason games. If he opens next season as a “true PG,” but with KA continuing to play deep rotations and limit overall minutes like he did this season – which would mean Ty gets significant minutes and CPJ is likely getting regular minutes at 9 or 10… Read more »
Yes. Playing as a PG specifically and bringing the ball up is more wear and tear than jogging up and coming out of the corner.
He can do it I just don’t think you need it. Nothing wrong with Ty or CPJ bringing it up and having Evan initiate the offense anyways to start games.
We need Donovan as a closer more especially with Darius out, and the DM/Strus/Hunter/Mobley/Allen lineup will work best if he hasn’t been carrying a load.
Yeah, that may work better. I think it would entail Donovan playing more in distributor mode the way he did at the start of 23-24 when DG got raked in the eye on opening night and had to sit out a bunch of games. They had Levert starting SG and ran off 8 straight wins.
There’s a reason why Spida wore a PG sweater to his final press conference of the season LMFAO
Yeah a lot of people were trying to figure out if that was shade against Darius. But Donovan maybe already knew then what we’re finding out officially now. Anyway personally I’m fine with whatever solution does “not” feature Strus as starting “3” – I love Strus, I just would like to see an end to playing small defensively multiple spots. And not relying on Wade to start at any position, as he’s never shown his body can hold up.
yeah, good point, they certainly had to have known how bad it was.
Also, I’m guessing you’ll find Ty and Spida close games if/when they need the extra ball handler and they’ll backdoor Ty into 30 minutes per game.
it was obvious that he couldn’t play against the Pacers so it was a mistake to have him playing. if they could have won without him, he might have been able to do something in the finals after a couple weeks off.
QUEENSRYCHE PLAYED HEAR SATURDAY NIGHT ( PART OF BIKE WEEK). GREAT TIME 👍🍺👍🍺👍🍺🎸🎸
RAOUL — I “ UNWRAPPED “ THE MODELO 👍🏀🤪——- BATES IS 1 OF THOSE PLAYERS YOU “ SALIVATE / CUSS “AT THE SAME TIME ——LIKE MANY HS / COLLEGE GIRLS ( NOT “ THE “ MRS NOMAD ——- A “ TEASER “ ——— BOTH KA ‘ s HAVE GOT TO “ LAY IT ON THE TABLE “ FOR EMONI —-THIS MIGHT BE HIS MAKE/ BREAK YEAR WITH THE CAVS —-THEY DO HAVE TO GIVE HIM LEGITIMATE MINUTES/ OPPORTUNITIES TO SUCCEED/ EVALUATE
Shaq has developed a nice late career as a likable buffoon playing straight man for sports talkers. He appears to be offering an additional dimension by offering pearls of “wisdom”. Of all things, he is jumping on the Cavs for Emoni Bates not being in the rotation. this does bring up a good point — is the Bator showing any evidence of being able to play in the bigs?
Not that I’ve seen, but my eyesight has been deteriorating over the last year or two.
your eyesight is just fine Simmo… only thing Shaq revealed is that he hasn’t watched one second of the Cavs since we drafted Emoni LMFAOOO
“explosive diarrhea”.. nice turn of a phrase, chris.. captures the essence of what was on display..
great band, “Explosive Diarrhea”. I saw ’em open for “Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly” and “Major SideEye” at Coachilla
thanks buck! that what they get for wasting my time this spring! LMFAO
Do…the Nuggets have four elite defenders? I like their guys but MPJ and Murray feel trick or treat to me at best on that end
OKC LOOKING TOUGH TONIGHT!!!!
I THINK AN ENTIRE TRAINING CAMP FOR DRE WILL HELP HIM / TEAM ALSO—— HOPEFULLY THEY PLAY NYQUIL OTHER PLAYERS IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE——THINK HE IS ELIGIBLE TO PLAY—-GET A BETTER LOOK AT HIM 👍👍
GOOD LUCK NICK CHUBBS —YOU SET THE STANDARD/ BAR HIGH AS A RUNNING BACK AND EVEN MORE AS A PERSON—- THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DID BOTH ON AND OFF THE FIELD—— YOU WILL BE SORELY MISSED AND NEVER REPLACED !!!!!
🙏🙏🙏—👍👍👍👍ON NEW POST—/ DRAFT SLEEPER—-OMORUYI / ALABAMA COULD BE A NICE ATHLETIC BACK UP BIG —— NEVER SAW ENOUGH OF “ OKE – DOKE “ TO FORM AN OPINION ON HIM —CLF —- HEAR YOU ON ICE —- STILL THINK IF THEY CAN MOVE HIS CONTRACT—- DO IT IN ORDER TO KEEP SAM / TY ——- ALOT OF TEAMS JUMPED ON THE “ DUBS “‘BANDWAGON AND DEVELOPED “ SMALL “
BALL LINEUPS—-/ THE NBA IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING—SIZE IS ALWAYS VITAL——SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING/ CHALLENGING SUMMER FOR THE CAVS
Okoro and Wade are the no-brainer salary dumps to get back under the 2nd apron, so have no fear NOMAD Ice is either gonna break out or get dumped… it’s the end of the road for him.
Garland was in the conversation for clutch player of the year and was essential to us beating OKC (only East team to do so between October and the Finals). Still need to see it in the playoffs but he was much better than he’s ever been in rising to the occasion in the clutch. First half of the season should be starting Hunter, giving Tyson, Green and Okeke loads of bench minutes (Tyson especially needs to have the ball for a lot of rebound and run shit surrounded by shooters) and working in the third big (although we could do… Read more »
agree the Cavs should have had Jaylon Tyson and Javonte Green ready to go, and played them when needed.
much of the Cavs regular season success last year was having both DG and DM scoring . with a bad toe, DG couldn’t do anything against the Paters. if everyone was healthy the Cavs likely win that series and coast into the finals.
one valid complaint about DG is that he gets hurt a lot. this doesn’t make any of the proposed trades of DG for a mediocre player plus a stiff and picks a good idea.
It’s a lot to ask of a career journeyman and a G League guy but Ty and CPJ just have to get a lot better as DG insurance, whether that means defensive improvement for Ty or getting the shot right for CPJ.
It feels like we have too many PGs but not enough at the same time.
And CPJ needs fairly regular minutes. Along with Tyson.
Where does he get them if you sign Ty and Sam? I like him but I get why he didn’t get minutes and I also get why Kenny was reticent to put him in after warming the bench all year. (I didn’t support not trying him especially in Game 2, but I understand).
He’s in a tough math position
welp. guess he’ll get minutes.
good to see people are coming to their senses about JA. if Embiid is healthy next year, the Cavs without JA would have zero chance against the 76’ers.
The alternatives top out as “yeah I could talk myself into that” at best. He’s also the best screener on the roster which matters against Indy / OKC type teams.
I truly can’t wait for next year. I don’t think we will get 60-70 wins but you could see a team-wide revenge season, fun growth, and a Pacers / Cavs Xmas Day game.