Podcast 316: Amateur Hour
2025-06-15Hope you all had a happy Father’s Day, Cavalier fans. With the NBA finals in full swing, last week, Nate, Eli, and Chris Francis constructed an impromptu podcast booth in an abandoned culvert underneath I-80, and exorcised the demons of the Cavs’ 2025 playoff exit. Full warning, this one might have the worst audio engineering in the history of CtB, and it’s almost a week old now. I’ve been burning it at both ends at work and this was the soonest I could post. So it’s amateur hour from us as we flexed our dormant podcast muscles.
To kick it off we got into why the Cavs lost highlighted by some major criticisms for Kenny Atkinson, the Cavs’ perpetually injury mismanagement, the Cavs’ lack of punch, and the NBA officials. Up next we got into slop season with no one off the table in our discussion of how to reconstruct this Cavs roster. The conversation revolved around a few key points key points: the Cavs have one last shot to make a major move before the end of June, before they’re locked in salary cap purgatory, above the dreaded luxury tax apron; there are no perfect deals out there, and there aren’t any clear paths for improving the roster; the Cavs might be stuck with what they have; Cleveland desperately needs some longer wings, better secondary ball-handling, and a guard set that complements both each other and Cleveland’s bigs; and finally, the luxury tax apron is going to act as a hard cap and make it very hard for teams over it to operate.
After that we got into The Finals, celebrated a big birthday, and looked forward to the summer. It was an entertaining podcast, even if it was a little rough around the edges.
As always, catch us below, download the full audio file, or listen on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn, or Spotify.
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LT up.
ESPN two round mock for the Cavs:
49: Vladislav Goldin, C, Michigan, super senior
58: Saliou Niang, SG/SF, Trento (Italy)
comments?
ANY CAVS DRAFT PREDICTION s ——- MOCK DRAFTS HAVE 7–8 DIFFERENT POTENTIAL DRAFT PICKS FOR CAVS ——AMARI MARTIN / KY POST INTRIGUES ME
ESPN had us drafting Nembhard’s bro, which would be great fun
how many Nembhards are playing pro ball?
BleacherReport on the trade that wasn’t:
According to Windhorst, the Cavaliers told the Suns they would only consider trading Garland to Phoenix in exchange for Durant in addition to other assets.
“I think the Cavs’ price was basically Kevin Durant and multiple first-round picks, and the Suns were not unwilling,” Windhorst said.
this makes more sense.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A. BIG FAN OF CAPELLA ——WOULD THEY DO IT FOR ICE / WADE / DRAFT PICK
He’s pretty butt now but worth a shot. Not like Nance is great either but Capela looks very out of shape to me
Cavs can’t do a sign and trade, and capella is a free agent
I mean, he’s better than TT. But clearly fading.
I’d rather go younger.
JUST SAW THAT RAOUL —— THINK THE HAWKS IMPROVED ON THAT TRADE
Welcome to the Land Clint Capela or Larry Nance.
Porzingis is a funky fit but they will be a fun five out team
Georges to the Celts:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2025/06/boston-celtics-trade-kristaps-porzingis-in-3-team-deal-with-hawks-nets.html
That is…not a lot for Porzingis or Holiday.
I’m kind of hoping a Celtics or Magic big shakes loose this week. I like Tillman, Kornet, Queta, and the Orlando backup bigs as a potential Cavs third big
apparently the Celts got their payroll way down going forward
The Cs were trying to shed salary.
Yeah, I get it and situated my reaction in that context. It strikes me as a dramatic downgrade even for a dump.
THE LATEST ( NOT SO GREATEST) KJG TRADE PROPOSAL—- 2 PRIMARY PLAYERS INVOLVED—- DG FOR JRUE HOLIDAY—- WTF ARE THEY SMOKING 🤪🚬
KBG: Klick Bait Gospel
right. a lot of sites get paid for clicks so they make up wild crap. also, dumb explains plenty.
“ DITTO “ —- WAS SOUGHT BY SEVERAL TEAMS
WELCOME TO THE LAND JARED DUDLEY
Somebody should have told the Blazers that Drue is washed 😉
Detroit might take a swing on him, before they have to pay Ausar and Ivey.
Windhorst claims the Cavs were trying to get KD. I suspect this indicates he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Shams reported it too, of course they were shopping DG IDK what rock you’re living under LMFAOO
and how would such a trade go?
IDK, but we can obviously deduce it wasn’t enough or more likely KD didn’t want to sign an extension with the Cavs.
Minnesota offered a better deal, but KD refused to extend so it torpedoed the deal. Sounds like KD only wanted to go to Texas or Miami.
Bullet dodged. Giving 35 year olds contract extensions is dumb unless they’re named LeBron or Kareem
this feels right, although a closing lineup of Mitchell-Strus-KD-Allen-Mobley is a fun fantasy for a year.
Perhaps, definitely so if the deal was centered around JA instead of DG, or both.
I wouldn’t trade either DG and JA for KD. not even Nick Militi would trade both.
KD is way overrated at this stage and is a culture killer. He can still score efficiently, but not enough to be the best player on a chip level team. And he wilts if things get physical.
Curry’s wingman was his best possible fit, and he chafed at it.
He’d still be an upgrade over DG, though. Short term at least.
The Real Cavs Fans guys worked through it — nice to see folks think through things instead of settling for surface level deductions — it was something like DG/Hunter/Okoro/Wade/Jerome for KD and some draft capital (to the extent the Suns have any). Your bench is Tyson, Porter, Okeke, Merrill (if resigned) and a truckload of (SIX!) vet min guys and maybe the two-way guys. You could talk yourself into the vision of a top-heavy starting five, but you are turning over a LOT of guys. Feels like it would take much of the year to work out the kinks, and… Read more »
insanely bad trade. maybe back when KD was a top 5 – 10 player in the league. now he is at best top 50 – 100 in the league, a loser, and screwed every team he has played for.
I had not known about the RCF crew. they seems fairly sane.
however, I couldn’t find anything on a trade.
It was in a comment thread by some dude named Smooth.
several post mortems of the trade point out that DG + a box of tape are a much better return than the Suns actually got from the Rockets, so they doubt such an offer was ever made.
We have some wild fans who would give up DG for the #10 pick so…
Looks like the Suns called the Cavs per Windhorst. Makes more sense
Windy reported this morning that it was PHX that called Cleveland about Garland, not the other way around. Interesting.
the Cavs are probably “listening” to offers for DG. the reports that the Cavs are “shopping” DG all appear to be from idiots.
an all-star caliber player and some decent draft capital seems to be the starting point. given that Garland is good on the floor in the regular season as well as a great fit with Mitchell and Mobley, that seems right.
Zach Lowe sez if you re-draft 2019, Garland goes #1
Fan Dual’s opening odds for 2026 championship:
https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/cavaliers-receive-favorable-nba-title-odds-from-notable-sportsbook-01jyeq6zdrgz
they are favored in the EC because they haven’t made any dumb trades.
Let’s give it a week!
With no Boston or Indiana in the East contender spot next year, suspect Allen stays.
He’s been good against Orlando and Detroit, especially v. Duren (his flattening Ausar on a screen was an interesting flash), he is a good guy to throw at KAT and Embiid and Giannis….
https://bsky.app/profile/fraserramon.bsky.social/post/3lsbr6twrw22q
sad about halliburton.. epic playoff performances.. tipping my hat to the talented dude who shoulda and coulda been drafted by the cavs..
Hurt PG = bench guys having to do too much = falling apart late. We saw this movie too.
Pacers getting a 5 sec violation. Hard to play offense and inbound with no PG
BUCKAROO —- THE ONLY THING I SHOOT “ IS THE 🐮 MOON “ 🤪🤪
NOMAD bro.. i don’t shoot at the moon.. i just howl at it.. glad you won some modelo tonight..
ouch ouch ouch
Pretty sure Hali just blew his Achilles.
Confirmed Achilles injury (by HaliDad)
BUCKAROO HOPING U ( ALL) ARE STAYING COOL 🍺🧊———HOPEFULLY OKC WINS SO I CAN COLLECT MY “ MODELO “ BET FROM RAOUL 👍🍺🏀👍🍺🏀
drinking my diet dr pepper NOMAD bro.. with lots of ice.. working in the garden in spurts.. shooting at the squirrels with a CO2 BB rifle (actually the metal feeders) when they spend too much time eating the bird seed.. pretty good shot with a scope.. (also pretty good with a 9 millie.. western style.. one in each hand (sig p365 and springfield hellcat).. i love emptying 2 mags at once.. not much left of the target’s head after unloading 2 long clips).. forget the torso.. i am a head shot kind of guy (likely obvious to the audience).. be… Read more »
TJ McCONNELL WENT UNDRAFTED —-HOW ABOUT THAT FOR A “ SCRAP HEAP “ PICK UP
he was really fortunate to land with those disastrous 6er teams — it’s amazing that he’s probably going to play twice as many games as Delly. really has adjusted his game over the years too.
DURABT TO ROCKET s ——- GOOD LUCK WITH THAT “ BAGGAGE “ —- DURANT SUCH A DOUCHE !!!!
Houston got robbed!
I didn’t think they gave up much but I’m super super low on Green and we just got done talking about 10-40 picks being dice rolls.
What are the Suns doing? Booker, Green, and Beal is $190 mil worth of SG. The one spot they did not need help was SG.
And that is counting Brooks as a SF and not counting Grayson Allen.
Most overrated superstar ever. Though Harden & Russ are close.
so, pacers get nembhard at #31 (a key piece in their “take no prisoners” title run who tormented and humiliated the cavs) and koby takes okoro at #5 (who i rate as a D-) ? for decades, cavs (and altman) have done very well in the draft ONLY when they had very high picks with very obvious (and high consensus) talent available (lebron, kyrie, mobley).. the only passing grades i see are sexton #8 (who i rate a C+), garland #5 (who i rate B+).. when was the last time cavs drafted a late 1st, or a 2nd, that could… Read more »
Anything from 10-40 is kind of hit or miss. We do better in trades and with scrap heap guys.
Danny Green, Boozer and Joe Harris kind of count I guess?
y.. harris developed nicely.. should not have been dumped.. i forgot about him. that pick rates a B+/A- in my book..
hoping pacers win the title.. OKC is a great team, but for some reason i really dislike them.. probably just jealousy over all those picks.. even a chimp could build a winner with the number of picks they got.. but, hey, they traded for those picks, so kudos to them.. still, i would like to see pacers win and OKC be very sad and depressed.. at least cavs would be able to say the were humiliated (causing very embarrassing shrinkage) by the champs..
I’m with you – rooting for the Pacers. For me it’s the Thunder’s foul baiting, I can’t stand it, although Shai is a great player nonetheless. This Finals has been one of the better ones, every game competitive except game 6, and now going to 7.
You lose your point guard, you are fucked. Bench guys reach their limits and the structure collapses.
Tyus Jones at 24 was a good pick, but he went to Minny.
Danny Green at 46.
We drafted Crowder in Rd2.
Boobie at 42.
Jaylen Tyson will be good. Okoro was definitely a whiff with Hali sitting there. Should’ve drafted Hali and traded Sexton. Cavs overvalue their own picks and hang on to losers like Okoro and Sexton over better options too long.
Okoro was a dumb pick. That is what happens when you pick for particular skill instead of best talent.
Recall however that next six teams also didn’t pick Hali, so all the gripping about not making the obvious pick are BS
I thought Deni was an obvious pick for us. He’d have been super interesting with Mobley and Allen
I think we are pretty much stuck with what we got.
Hope for some internal improvement (Mobes, DG, Jerome, Hunter, Tyson, CPJ, Merrill, Ice, Atkinson). Hope we learn from the Pacers loss.
Get a 3rd big for sure. Bigger 2 way wing, bigger 2 way G + better secondary ball-handling are also needed.
But I think it is mostly run it back. East is wide open.
I give the Core 4 one more year. If DG is injured/chokes again, then he has to go.
Strus/Hunter are our best players outside of that. And best paid. Closest to being 2 way guys.
No matter who we jettison, creating cap space is impossible. Cheap FA’s or guys in trade is it. And that is gonna be limited.
It gets complicated on timeline and return with DG and Mitchell both. You can move one but probably not both, and you then are left with how those guys fit with the pieces coming back. Mitchell isn’t a point guard and DG isn’t a top end scorer. I’m still not sure Mitchell’s hero ball and freezing other players out isn’t problematic.
I think it’s next year for the Core 4, then they try to package one of Garland or Allen with the ‘26 FRP (or Mitchell if they have a negative opinion about how he’ll age). Allen is useful too.
that is why you don’t want to jettison anyone
LONG LIVE 2016 —- AM SURE EVERYONE REMEMBERS WHERE THEY WERE/ WHAT THEY WERE DOING—— FRED MCLEOUD s MAGICAL CALL 👍🏀🍺
Have been reminiscing the last few days with various peeps. Remember like it was yesterday.
SAME PEOPLE WHO KEEP ON INSISTING TO TRADE JA ——— I REST MY CASE
Corneillison keeps wanting to trade JA and DG for bums. I am sure he is dreaming of trading JA + DG + some picks for the perfect overpaid, past his prime, rarely wins chucker — Kevin Durant.
KJG on LaVert trade:
https://kingjamesgospel.com/pacers-clearly-fleeced-cavaliers-caris-levert-trade
Monday’s experts.
Beyond dumb. Caris was great, helped them get Hunter, and neither of them are the reason the Cavs lost. The Cavs’ problem wasn’t trading for LeVert, it was re-signing Okoro to any more than a one year deal so they could trade him instead of LeVert.
think you are right
Yeah-I stay hopeful with Okoro but at the very least we could have moved him to ATL instead of Niang, who would have been useful against Indy and generally operated as a ground bound Obi Toppin for us
OK RAOUL 1ON 1 “ MODELO FINALS “ 🍺🏀🍺🏀🍺🏀
plus-minus not everything but JDub was -40 tonight. felt like -100.
Again, super trick or treat by Indy.
Nesmith – 10, Hali, 14/5 on 12 shots. Turner, disgusting three points four boards. Mathurin, like 1-7 and -18. Siakam had fun splash plays but pretty pedestrian production.
Obi played out of his mind after getting subbed for Turner, Nembhard finally shows up, and TJM great in his role.
Nothing is happening in Indy that can’t happen in Cleveland next year.
right. there were three contenders in the EC: Boston had a devestating injury, Cleveland had a major injury, Indy in the finals
LAKERS SOLD FOR 10 BILLION—- DAMN I WAS A “ BILLION SHY “ 🤪
TOO MUCH BEER NOMAD!!! LMFAOOOO
SHEDEUR SANDERS PICKED UP GOING OVER 100 MPH ———- WTF —— CMON BROWNS !!
Recalls Kellen Winslow Jr
KWJ was doing wheelies that he didn’t know how to do — not quite the same as driving fast.
Apparently this is already the second, not the first time . . . and he skipped the court appearance from the first citation. So it hasn’t become a disaster yet but it needs to get nipped in the bud now before reaching that point.
OKC WILL CLOSE IT OUT TOMORROW NIGHT!!!
Halliburton gets hurt and, oh look, his production drops to 4 points and -13 +/-. You need some luck to win a ring. I weary of commentators projecting “toughness” and “character” onto everything after the fact when it’s really just, “hey the guy was healthy this time and hurt the other time”. Hopefully Kenny and the boys will devote some serious offseason work in breaking traps and presses as it is the one remaining glaring issue. They came a long way to dealing with the other big one, which was rebounding. With Tyson playing more and Mobley continuing to develop… Read more »
Yes!!!
Yes, the Halli injury cost Indiana in Game 5, but for me that’s not the primary takeaway from the series so far. Despite that injury, the series has been super competitive. And one reason is the Pacers have shown an ability to succeed on the offensive end through excessive contact and suffocating defensive pressure. (Sometimes with a lot of turnovers, true). The Cavs haven’t, as a team (though Donovan has individually), consistently shown that ability in their “core-four era” playoff runs. I hope they will next year. The East is wide open, and optimism is warranted, but “just” being healthy… Read more »
have they succeeded against OKC? it’s really that they’ve been healthy enough to have bodies to throw at teams while playing high intensity. I mean, they’ve won games, but Nembhard is firmly down to earth at 33% from 3 and 2.7 TOs a game. Siakam has had some woof games, Turner is like 5/22 from 3 with as many rebounds as three point attempts, Hali is up and down. i think some of Indiana’s pressure concepts and conditioning would help as well as the physicality, but Garland and Mobley are both better 1:1 players than their Pacer counterparts even if… Read more »
right. and that plan gives them a shot at winning it this year.
typical example of commentators making crap up because they don’t actually know anything.
whoever was responsible in the Cavs’ FO for this draft debacle hopefully was fired:
In Defense of Jalen Williams (or, “They Am What They Am”) – Cavs: The Blog
He was gone before they picked. Would’ve been moved to Utah anyway.
Wasn’t the point, it was about their ability to evaluate talent and dismissing the only obviously good wing in that draft.
good work on being early to the Jalen Williams bandwagon, but no one has any idea how the Cavs actually ranked the prospects. every team’s rankings are always a closely guarded secret. Fedor might have no idea, or, if he really is an insider, why would he reveal the secret info? that would be the end of him being an insider. more likely he was tasked with giving false info on JW in hopes he would slide to the Cavs. the only evidence for any team’s rankings is the actual draft order: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NBA_draft how many teams do you see that… Read more »
And who knows if they knew he had a promise or if Utah wanted Agbaji (who was a terrible pick).
Nesmith goes down for a quarter in the ECF, Pacers implode.
Hali goes down for a quarter in the Finals, Pacers implode.
(even with TJM going bananas, Ty Jerome style) … maybe having a great point guard healthy against a pressure defense matters
and the Pacers almost pulled it out in the fourth. a series of very bad calls might have saved the game for OKC: did anyone figure out how OKC got two foul shots on a jump ball?
McConnell pulled down SGAs wrist without going for the ball?
OK. I was watching with some pals and we couldn’t figure it out. If so, that was a dumb thing to do — what’s the chances the refs aren’t watching a jump ball.
Didn’t have TJ going en fuego on my bingo card.
He’s a junkyard dawg!!!
Thanks guys, been looking fwd to this. Pods gonna lose it’s “clean” rating 🤣.
Lmfaoooo it’s mostly my fault for that!!! 🤣🤣🤣
“BURNING THE CANDLE AT BOTH ENDS—- LEADS TO FLAME 🔥 OUT “ ———- “ STOP AND SMELL/ DRINK THE MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “